Hearthpwn

Quote from Anton_ >>

whens the next update coming

 If you have suggestions, bring them forth!

Hello there! I'm a new user from Austria.

I almost always use my spare-dust to craft new legendaries. But it's tricky every time.

Also I'm a Wild player.

So today I looked at the data (last 14 days) of all the trash-tier Wild legendaries, to see if they're really that bad.

Here is what I found:

Tyrantus - Good Played Winrate, maybe some decks can make use of it. Suggestion: Tier 4

Hobart Grapplehammer - Holds a Positive Winrate, maybe as a tech or meme card in aggressive builds. Suggestion: Tier 4

Knuckles - Good Played Winrate, decent Deck Winrate, maybe a card for aggressive, midrange and/or beast-focused builds. Suggestion: Tier 3

Cho'gall - Surprisingly Good Winrates (Deck/Played), but sees very little play. Maybe for highlander and/or combo/control decks. Suggestion: at least Tier 3, maybe even Tier 2

Herald Volazj - Same as with Tyrantus. Suggestion: Tier 4

Malkorok - Positive Winrates (Deck/Played), maybe playable in all kinds of Warrior decks. Suggestion: Tier 4

Mukla, Tyrant of the Vale - Positive Winrates (Deck/Played), but not sure where to put it. Suggestion: Tier 4

Rhonin - Positive Played Winrate, maybe a big drop to try out in highlander and/or combo builds. Suggestion: Tier 4

Flame Leviathan - Positive Played Winrate, maybe as a tech card in spell-heavy control and/or highlander decks. Suggestion: Tier 4

Gahz'rilla - Very good Played Winrate, high synergy with Kathrena Winterwisp. Suggestion: Tier 3

The rest is trash for sure.

 

Quote from Malastrana

Hello there! I'm a new user from Austria.

I almost always use my spare-dust to craft new legendaries. But it's tricky every time.

Also I'm a Wild player.

So today I looked at the data (last 14 days) of all the trash-tier Wild legendaries, to see if they're really that bad.

Here is what I found:

Tyrantus - Good Played Winrate, maybe some decks can make use of it. Suggestion: Tier 4

Thanks for the feedback. In general, cards with a playrate that low go to tier 5, even if their winrate is decent. From rank 10 and up, the card has been played 6 times, so a the 50% winrate really does not mean much. However, if we actually find a deck which uses him, and the card is important for it, I will consider moving him up.

Hobart Grapplehammer - Holds a Positive Winrate, maybe as a tech or meme card in aggressive builds. Suggestion: Tier 4

See Tyrantus. This card might be useful in Hack the System decks, though.

Knuckles - Good Played Winrate, decent Deck Winrate, maybe a card for aggressive, midrange and/or beast-focused builds. Suggestion: Tier 3

See Tyrantus. This card was actually placed too high for a long time for this exact reason. The problem is that he actually makes said decks worse. A legendary with stronger cheaper replacement is not a recommended craft.

Cho'gall - Surprisingly Good Winrates (Deck/Played), but sees very little play. Maybe for highlander and/or combo/control decks. Suggestion: at least Tier 3, maybe even Tier 2

See Tyrantus

Herald Volazj - Same as with Tyrantus. Suggestion: Tier 4

Malkorok - Positive Winrates (Deck/Played), maybe playable in all kinds of Warrior decks. Suggestion: Tier 4

Mukla, Tyrant of the Vale - Positive Winrates (Deck/Played), but not sure where to put it. Suggestion: Tier 4

Rhonin - Positive Played Winrate, maybe a big drop to try out in highlander and/or combo builds. Suggestion: Tier 4

Flame Leviathan - Positive Played Winrate, maybe as a tech card in spell-heavy control and/or highlander decks. Suggestion: Tier 4

Gahz'rilla - Very good Played Winrate, high synergy with Kathrena Winterwisp. Suggestion: Tier 3

The rest is trash for sure.

See Tyrantus.

In general, the list is made considering playrate, winrate and usefulness in decks. Tier 4 also has a lot of bad cards, but if you open it in a pack, at least there is some fun to be had if you slot them in a certain archetype, and they might even be buildarounds in meme decks.

Quote from SlydE>>

Thanks for the feedback. In general, cards with a playrate that low go to tier 5, even if their winrate is decent. From rank 10 and up, the card has been played 6 times, so a the 50% winrate really does not mean much. However, if we actually find a deck which uses him, and the card is important for it, I will consider moving him up.

Didn't consider the ranks. But I do understand your point. Also I believe it's pretty hard for a card to recover from a low playrate. People consider it a closed case and that leads to even less play. In the case of Tyrantus it's not that he is a bad card, but Combo-Druids do win a lot more and they don't need him, I guess?

See Tyrantus. This card was actually placed too high for a long time for this exact reason. The problem is that he actually makes said decks worse. A legendary with stronger cheaper replacement is not a recommended craft.

I know that there are a lot of good options to choose from, when building an aggressive, midrange, highlander, etc. deck. But I don't really understand how a card like Knuckles makes them worse, when there are a lot of cards with high playrate, that actually have a pretty terrible Played Winrate? For example: the data suggests, that Deathstalker Rexxar makes Hunter decks far worse. Sure it looks like a terrific addition, but the data says "no". On the other hand, Knuckles is played a lot less, looks unappealing, but the data says "it's fine". Maybe that's for now and wasn't the case at the time of the last update.

In general, the list is made considering playrate, winrate and usefulness in decks. Tier 4 also has a lot of bad cards, but if you open it in a pack, at least there is some fun to be had if you slot them in a certain archetype, and they might

Today I looked at the other Tiers and found, that there are some cards in Tier 4 that also have very low to even lower playrates than some of the cards I suggested to place higher. For consistency reasons some of these could move up or move down in the process. For example the data suggests, that Rhonin is at least a tad better than Geosculptor Yip, also he has a 30% higher playrate.

If I could choose only one card to redeem from Trash Tier, it would be Gahz'rilla, the synergy with Kathrena Winterwisp is just too good to miss out on.

I'll leave with two serious suggestions to move down to Tier 5: Yogg-Saron, Hope's End and The Caverns Below. Sure they are both fan favorites, but their winrates are abysmal.

If I could choose only one card to redeem from Trash Tier, it would be Gahz'rilla, the synergy with Kathrena Winterwisp is just too good to miss out on.

Unfortunately, that is not quite the case. He is simply in the wrong class, which has no reliable way to abuse his effect. Big slow piles of stats tend not to be good from turn 6 and onward. If you have a deck which works, I will listen to you!

Yes, tier 4 probably needs an overhaul too, both of the cards you mention are tier 5 material, but some cards are there because they could possibly have potential in the future.

The biggest issue, however, is that the format has so many cards and there is not enough data. I have played Wild quite a lot myself, but you can play 1000s of games without ever encountering many of the legendaries. At lower ranks, you will rather face pure standard decks than experimental decks featuring rarely used GvG legendaries. The wild part of guide will unfortunately always have an element of gut-feeling.

Quote from SlydE >>

If I could choose only one card to redeem from Trash Tier, it would be Gahz'rilla, the synergy with Kathrena Winterwisp is just too good to miss out on.

Unfortunately, that is not quite the case. He is simply in the wrong class, which has no reliable way to abuse his effect. Big slow piles of stats tend not to be good from turn 6 and onward. If you have a deck which works, I will listen to you!

Yes, tier 4 probably needs an overhaul too, both of the cards you mention are tier 5 material, but some cards are there because they could possibly have potential in the future.

The biggest issue, however, is that the format has so many cards and there is not enough data. I have played Wild quite a lot myself, but you can play 1000s of games without ever encountering many of the legendaries. At lower ranks, you will rather face pure standard decks than experimental decks featuring rarely used GvG legendaries. The wild part of guide will unfortunately always have an element of gut-feeling.

For Gahz'rilla I might imagine some kind of Elven Archer/Scarlet Webweaver/Tundra Rhino combo - but that will probably end up a meme. At least there's some hope for crazy use.

Will try out some of the legendaries from the Low Tiers, because I've got quite a few of them. Also I always play my games between rank 5 and legend. Stay tuned for my reports.

finally got 1600 dust but i have so many options to craft this time so i need some help deciding (WILD):

-Loatheb for quest/shudderwock shaman and mid range decks

-Barista Lynchen for highlander decks and quest shaman

-Flobbidinous Floop for highlander druid and infinite fatigue mill deck (dont have enough cards for quest druid)

-Chef Nomi forgot to add this one but its a really deck defining card that opens many decks for me like dane's whip warrior and cycle giants priest etc.

-Lord Godfrey for all my control and slow warlock decks (i love warlock atm)

-Open the Waygate there are a lot of variances for this deck there is the otk with tony then theres giants and alexstrasza and then theres this mill otk meme deck that id love to try

-Supreme Archaeology i like the infinite plot twist deck with this but i dont have Fel Lord Betrug, i also like it with mechathun combo (keep in mind if i craft this i dont have godfrey)

-Raza the Chained mostly for nostalgia since razakus priest was my fave deck back in the day.

Quote from ItsZoos >>

finally got 1600 dust but i have so many options to craft this time so i need some help deciding (WILD):

-Loatheb for quest/shudderwock shaman and mid range decks

-Barista Lynchen for highlander decks and quest shaman

-Flobbidinous Floop for highlander druid and infinite fatigue mill deck (dont have enough cards for quest druid)

-Chef Nomi forgot to add this one but its a really deck defining card that opens many decks for me like dane's whip warrior and cycle giants priest etc.

-Lord Godfrey for all my control and slow warlock decks (i love warlock atm)

-Open the Waygate there are a lot of variances for this deck there is the otk with tony then theres giants and alexstrasza and then theres this mill otk meme deck that id love to try

-Supreme Archaeology i like the infinite plot twist deck with this but i dont have Fel Lord Betrug, i also like it with mechathun combo (keep in mind if i craft this i dont have godfrey)

-Raza the Chained mostly for nostalgia since razakus priest was my fave deck back in the day.

As an experienced WILD player, I'd say: craft Loatheb, he's playable in almost every deck. Of course timing matters, but he will always help to swing the game in your favour. Second place in my opinion: Lord Godfrey, crafted him recently and he never fails to amaze - maybe the best boardwipe out there.

The last two weeks I played some of the underused WILD legendaries. Here is a short report:

Hadronox - is INSANE in my opinion! Grinded my way to Legend with a greedy taunt-druid deck, had a flawless winstreak through Rank 1. As soon as you're ahead, secret-mages can not win against this. Also destroyed quiet a few highlander-decks. The only thing tricky about Hadronox-druid is the finetuning. I for example always try to play The Lich King into my Sathrovarr for maximum value. For that reason I use Juicy Psychmelon. Hadronox = easy Tier 2 for skilled players!

Wilfred Fizzlebang - put him in a greedy highlander-Mecha'thun-deck, because I don't have Supreme Archaeology .... with surprisingly good results! Whenever I played him at 8 or more mana, he delivered. Whatever he hits, it helps when you're behind, it destroys when you're ahead. Also synergy with Kazakus-potions! Suggestion: Tier 4, at least.

Gormok the Impaler - thought even-shaman would be a natural fit for this guy .... sadly he's almost always useless and sticks in your hand. Very disappointing. But will try a little more.

nice tiers of collection to have 

Just dropping by to say I am still around!

It is THAT time of the year again, with a massive meta shakeup incoming. Depending on how clear the data is, it should be possible to place all the new legendaries in very close to correct tiers within a couple of weeks. The most challenging, however, is the changes to other standard legendaries who have new synergies or have been pushed out by new decks.

I'll make a list of the new legendaries at the top of the OP.

Feedback appreciated as always!

Added some early expected tiers to the OP:
Galakrond, the Tempest (expected tier 1-2)
Veranus (expected tier 1-2)
Ancharrr (expected tier 1-2, also in Wild)
Dragonqueen Alexstrasza (expected tier 1-2, potential in Wild)
Kronx Dragonhoof (expected tier 1-2)
Mindflayer Kaahrj (expected tier 4-5)
Galakrond, the Unspeakable (expected tier 4-5)

I have to say that I've been pretty impressed by Galakrond the Unbreakable and Deathwing, Mad Aspect in my tempo warrior shell. Deathwing is a great card, acting as either a board clear or a piece of single target removal that leaves a sizable body behind. I definitely think it's being slept on right now.

Quote from osumatthew >>

I have to say that I've been pretty impressed by Galakrond the Unbreakable and Deathwing, Mad Aspect in my tempo warrior shell. Deathwing is a great card, acting as either a board clear or a piece of single target removal that leaves a sizable body behind. I definitely think it's being slept on right now.

That is interresting. The big question is if tempo warrior remains viable once the meta is refined.

Some more uptates:
Galakrond, the Nightmare (expected tier 1-3)
Murozond the Infinite (expected tier 4-5)
Deathwing, Mad Aspect (expected tier 2-4)
Nozdormu the Timeless (expected tier 3-5)
Ysera, Unleashed (expected tier 4-5)

I am also very tempted to place Ancharrr in tier 1 in Wild already.

This is a great news. 

Thanks for your hard work SlydE, this is and always will be my favourite thread on this board.  

Thank you for your kind words!

Some more updates, this time focusing more on older cards:
Barista Lynchen Tier 2 to 1
Corrupt the Waters Tier 2 to 1
Shudderwock Tier 2 to 1
Scargil Tier 1 to 3
Dr. Boom, Mad Genius Tier 1 to 3
Armagedillo Tier 1 to 2

It is also very tempting to just slam the Galakrond Shaman legendaries right into tier 1 right now. The overall winrate is throught the roof, and there are no good counters in sight. Nerfs are probably incoming, the big question is when and what rather than if. 

Galakrond, the Unspeakable (expected tier 4-5)
Murozond the Infinite (expected tier 4-5)
Goru the Mightree (expected tier 2-3)
Dragonbane (expected tier 1-3)
Malygos, Aspect of Magic (expected tier 1-3)
Chenvaala (expected tier 2-4)
Dragonrider Talritha (expected tier 4-5)
Waxadred (expected tier 4-5)
Flik Skyshiv (expected tier 1-3)
Nithogg (expected tier 2-3)
Bandersmosh (expected tier 1-2)
Galakrond, the Wretched
Valdris Felgorge (expected tier 2-3)
Zzeraku the Warped (expected tier 2-3)
Galakrond, the Unbreakable (expected tier 2-3)
Sathrovarr (expected tier 2-4)
Shu'ma (expected tier 1-2)
Frizz Kindleroost (expected tier 2-4)

All expected tiers in! It is a ongoing debate how quickly it is safe to put them into their permanent tiers. Feedback appreciated!

Quote from SlydE >>

Galakrond, the Unspeakable (expected tier 4-5)
Murozond the Infinite (expected tier 4-5)
Goru the Mightree (expected tier 2-3)
Dragonbane (expected tier 1-3)
Malygos, Aspect of Magic (expected tier 1-3)
Chenvaala (expected tier 2-4)
Dragonrider Talritha (expected tier 4-5)
Waxadred (expected tier 4-5)
Flik Skyshiv (expected tier 1-3)
Nithogg (expected tier 2-3)
Bandersmosh (expected tier 1-2)
Galakrond, the Wretched
Valdris Felgorge (expected tier 2-3)
Zzeraku the Warped (expected tier 2-3)
Galakrond, the Unbreakable (expected tier 2-3)
Sathrovarr (expected tier 2-4)
Shu'ma (expected tier 1-2)
Frizz Kindleroost (expected tier 2-4)

All expected tiers in! It is a ongoing debate how quickly it is safe to put them into their permanent tiers. Feedback appreciated!

 bandermosh and shuma tier 1-2 ?? is there something good about them that I don't know about ? Also why waxedred is tier 4-5 it is used in somedecks spreads like plague.