Hearthpwn

Quote from Kovachut >>

@ Slyde

Soo uhm what's your opinion on the upcoming buff changes? Is this a reason to write a warning in the OP stating that people should be cautious when dusting weak cards? I know, I know - we can't predict which cards will get this treatment or when we will see this again (either next expansion, in a year from now or it might take longer than that), but the news about enhancing old and weak cards came out of nowhere and some users regret dusting their legendaries. I saw you put some plus signs near the affected cards, but I meant if you could warn the users to be careful in the future.

It is a gamechanger for dusting, yes. I'll think about if something should change, but crafting a card you will actually play has a value which should be considered vs. the risk of dusting something which MIGHT be buffed in the future, especially going ftp.

Quote from Kovachut >>

Quote from SlydE >>

It is a gamechanger for dusting, yes. I'll think about if something should change, but crafting a card you will actually play has a value which should be considered vs. the risk of dusting something which MIGHT be buffed in the future, especially going ftp.

I knew you would say that and I completely agree with you. I would also dust unwanted legendaries to craft the cards I want to play atm. I wouldn't wait patiently until the next buff patch arrives, but instead I would enjoy the deck I desired to play.

But such a warning would be useful for new or returning players to see. Veterans wouldn't be aware, that a buff patch will happen soon and new players won't know that this thing is super rare. Imagine that in a few months from now someone joins hs (again) and wonders whether they should dust an underwhelming legendary. Knowing that a card could be potentially buffed one day is a factor worth considering.

Lol, am I that predictable? Oops, some must actually be reading my posts here... 

Maybe it is time for another new tier 5 rhyme? Buff-bluff-cuff-rough...

But I excpect most people to come here for crafting or a quick glance what they can use their packed legendaries for.

I think as well that most people come to check what they can *craft*, not what they can disenchant.
But yeah, this buffing season is a bit of a game changer for many people (I myself have a long enough history to simply only DE stuff that goes wild and buffs in wild have not been seen yet ;)). Many of these buffs don't seem to make an insane difference atm. Maybe we will now have some deck that actually can play morrigan, but she still won't be good, it seems. For most other cards, the buffs will give them a small nudge, mostly. It really looks like team5 gave these buffs quite some thought.

Of course, cards to be buffed that already see quite some play (thunderhead, crystology), for them this is quite a noticeable change, i fear...

Hello, Slyde! I just checked the Wild list, and surprised that Prince Liam is Tier 2 while Trade Prince Gallywix is Tier 5? For me, it's vice-versa, as I Liam isn't a viability anymore whereas Gallywix is more than that. Maybe not Tier 2, but if you test him out, I bet you can see the potential of Gallywix as Tier 3, if not Tier 2, just like how Sneed is in the current list.

Quote from Esparanta >>

Hello, Slyde! I just checked the Wild list, and surprised that Prince Liam is Tier 2 while Trade Prince Gallywix is Tier 5? For me, it's vice-versa, as I Liam isn't a viability anymore whereas Gallywix is more than that. Maybe not Tier 2, but if you test him out, I bet you can see the potential of Gallywix as Tier 3, if not Tier 2, just like how Sneed is in the current list.

Hi! What decks do you use Gallywix in? The problem is that your opponent plays badly if he gives you value from it, and he is otherwise a statpile rogue is not the best class to make use out of. Not to mention they have giants, jades, pogohoppers and N'zoth as stronger options for a stat-overwhelming gameplan.

For liam, I will check him out, he is tier 2 for being a good option in a very strong metadeck (odd paladin.)

Well, I only faced Liam once or twice since WW, and Leeroy looks better in Odd Paladin than him as option. As for Gallywix, I use him in every Reno Rogue decks I made myself as well as in Thief Rogues. Rather than Tess, which is 8-mana and can screw you over, Gallywix is 6-mana with good stats and more viable than Tess.

Quote from Esparanta >>

Well, I only faced Liam once or twice since WW, and Leeroy looks better in Odd Paladin than him as option. As for Gallywix, I use him in every Reno Rogue decks I made myself as well as in Thief Rogues. Rather than Tess, which is 8-mana and can screw you over, Gallywix is 6-mana with good stats and more viable than Tess.

Neither see much play but Trade Prince Gallywix sees much less, and there is a whooping 25% difference in their deck winrates! Prince Liam has an amazing deck winrate of 60+, which suggests he could in fact be underplayed.

For a card to be promoted to tier 4 or higher it needs to have a natural place in a deck, even if it sees very little play. Unfortunately, I can't see which special synergies Trade Prince Gallywix has in any archetype.

There are much better replacements, but please don't let that stop you from having fun with the card at whichever rank or mode you are playing!

Hi everyone,

a few weeks ago I managed to hit rank 5 with Midrange Hunter despite having Zul'jin in my deck. Since then I've played very little in ranked due to university exams and a couple of days ago (after the Balance Patch) I started climbing again, but I haven't been able to go beyond Rank 4. Because of that, I'm now considering to craft Zul'jin in order to get that nice late game push and to justify most of the spells I'm running.

Now, some questions: considering that I'm playing a regular Midrange Hunter list (more or less this one), is it a deck worth the craft? Cause I'm feeling like I'm being annihilated by this new meta: maybe it's not that good anymore (or maybe it's just some bad luck of mine). Moreover, I think that there will soon be another balance patch, as the Devs left intended a week ago. Considering this case scenario, would this craft lose some of its value?

Thanks!

I hope this list finds a new home... on Outof.Cards

Quote from beppe946 >>

Hi everyone,

a few weeks ago I managed to hit rank 5 with Midrange Hunter despite having Zul'jin in my deck. Since then I've played very little in ranked due to university exams and a couple of days ago (after the Balance Patch) I started climbing again, but I haven't been able to go beyond Rank 4. Because of that, I'm now considering to craft Zul'jin in order to get that nice late game push and to justify most of the spells I'm running.

Now, some questions: considering that I'm playing a regular Midrange Hunter list (more or less this one), is it a deck worth the craft? Cause I'm feeling like I'm being annihilated by this new meta: maybe it's not that good anymore (or maybe it's just some bad luck of mine). Moreover, I think that there will soon be another balance patch, as the Devs left intended a week ago. Considering this case scenario, would this craft lose some of its value?

Thanks!

I'm going to assume that you did not have Zul'jin in your Midrange Hunter deck since you are considering crafting him. Also, there is going to be a balance patch (18 card buffs and 1 card nerf) on June 3rd which will likely affect the meta in some way. If you are on the fence on crafting, please hold on for a few weeks.

However, since I would still very recommend crafting Zul'jin, lets look at his strengths, status post the rogue nerf, and speculate about usage post the Boomsday Buff patch.

Zul'jin's power comes from being able a single card to "reload" your board, and in some cases, your hand. He is most useful with secrets, summoning spells (with one exception), and and enemy-targeted spells like Deadly Shot. He is somewhat less useful with neutral-targeted spells like Kill Command as it can (and will!) hit your side of the board, or spells like Tracking where you don't get to discover what card you pull. Well worth the 10 mana to play, plus as a nice bonus you get 5 armor and permanent Steamwheedle Sniper effect for the rest of the game.

Of the five hunter archetypes (Secret Hunter, Midrange Beast Hunter, Bomb Mech Hunter, Deathrattle Mech Hunter, and Spell Hunter), Zul'jin was in use in all but Bomb Hunter which tried to close games before turn 10. Midrange Hunter also tried to close games before 10 but if you did have to go longer, he was invaluable.

Tempo rogue was one of hunter's boogeymen being able to kill much faster. Tempo rogue is dead now, however, all hunter archetypes still struggle against Token Druid, Murloc Shaman, and Zoo Warlock; decks that can flood the board so that hunter can't keep up. If hunter can survive into late game, they will often win simply due to value from Zul'jin. Bomb Hunter suffered at the hands of Tempo Rogue like all of the other archetypes, but it preyed upon Tempo Rogue's counter deck Control Warrior. With Control Warrior not having their favorite prey anymore their numbers dwindle so Bomb Hunter's advantage dwindles too. Terribly sorry for those who crafted Boommaster Flark but Zul'jin is by far the superior late game card.

With the Boomsday Buffs approaching, we have to look at if the two buffed hunter cards (Necromechanic and Flark's Boom-Zooka) and SN1P-SN4P will help, and we have to see if there are any distinct problems that other buffed classes will impose.

SN1P-SN4P will be a moderate boost to Bomb Hunter and a very minor boost to Deathrattle Hunter. Will it make Bomb Hunter want to use Zul'jin? No. Will it make Zul'jin better in Deathrattle Hunter? Not really as it makes Nine Lives slightly worse filling up precious Zul'jin board space with 1/1s.

Will the Flark's Boom-Zooka buff make a difference? Ha ha ha no, not in standard at least. Wild Big Charge Beast Hunter may climb up to being a tier 4 deck, so at least there's that.

How about Necromechanic? This one is very interesting. Houndmaster Shaw has shown us that even playing a minion like this on curve is viable as it can be difficult to clear. Deathrattle Hunter will definitely use this and Bomb Hunter may think about it over SN1P-SN4P. Having Nine Lives trigger twice off of Zul'Jin is not bad but it's certainly no game changer.

About the other classes? Warrior and Paladin may improve slightly. I don't think that they will give hunter too many problems. Shaman and Mage are getting a slight buff that will make them better against hunter. That's about it though.

Quote from psykechan >>

Quote from beppe946 >>

Hi everyone,

a few weeks ago I managed to hit rank 5 with Midrange Hunter despite having Zul'jin in my deck. Since then I've played very little in ranked due to university exams and a couple of days ago (after the Balance Patch) I started climbing again, but I haven't been able to go beyond Rank 4. Because of that, I'm now considering to craft Zul'jin in order to get that nice late game push and to justify most of the spells I'm running.

Now, some questions: considering that I'm playing a regular Midrange Hunter list (more or less this one), is it a deck worth the craft? Cause I'm feeling like I'm being annihilated by this new meta: maybe it's not that good anymore (or maybe it's just some bad luck of mine). Moreover, I think that there will soon be another balance patch, as the Devs left intended a week ago. Considering this case scenario, would this craft lose some of its value?

Thanks!

I'm going to assume that you did not have Zul'jin in your Midrange Hunter deck since you are considering crafting him. Also, there is going to be a balance patch (18 card buffs and 1 card nerf) on June 3rd which will likely affect the meta in some way. If you are on the fence on crafting, please hold on for a few weeks.

However, since I would still very recommend crafting Zul'jin, lets look at his strengths, status post the rogue nerf, and speculate about usage post the Boomsday Buff patch.

Zul'jin's power comes from being able a single card to "reload" your board, and in some cases, your hand. He is most useful with secrets, summoning spells (with one exception), and and enemy-targeted spells like Deadly Shot. He is somewhat less useful with neutral-targeted spells like Kill Command as it can (and will!) hit your side of the board, or spells like Tracking where you don't get to discover what card you pull. Well worth the 10 mana to play, plus as a nice bonus you get 5 armor and permanent Steamwheedle Sniper effect for the rest of the game.

Of the five hunter archetypes (Secret Hunter, Midrange Beast Hunter, Bomb Mech Hunter, Deathrattle Mech Hunter, and Spell Hunter), Zul'jin was in use in all but Bomb Hunter which tried to close games before turn 10. Midrange Hunter also tried to close games before 10 but if you did have to go longer, he was invaluable.

Tempo rogue was one of hunter's boogeymen being able to kill much faster. Tempo rogue is dead now, however, all hunter archetypes still struggle against Token Druid, Murloc Shaman, and Zoo Warlock; decks that can flood the board so that hunter can't keep up. If hunter can survive into late game, they will often win simply due to value from Zul'jin. Bomb Hunter suffered at the hands of Tempo Rogue like all of the other archetypes, but it preyed upon Tempo Rogue's counter deck Control Warrior. With Control Warrior not having their favorite prey anymore their numbers dwindle so Bomb Hunter's advantage dwindles too. Terribly sorry for those who crafted Boommaster Flark but Zul'jin is by far the superior late game card.

With the Boomsday Buffs approaching, we have to look at if the two buffed hunter cards (Necromechanic and Flark's Boom-Zooka) and SN1P-SN4P will help, and we have to see if there are any distinct problems that other buffed classes will impose.

SN1P-SN4P will be a moderate boost to Bomb Hunter and a very minor boost to Deathrattle Hunter. Will it make Bomb Hunter want to use Zul'jin? No. Will it make Zul'jin better in Deathrattle Hunter? Not really as it makes Nine Lives slightly worse filling up precious Zul'jin board space with 1/1s.

Will the Flark's Boom-Zooka buff make a difference? Ha ha ha no, not in standard at least. Wild Big Charge Beast Hunter may climb up to being a tier 4 deck, so at least there's that.

How about Necromechanic? This one is very interesting. Houndmaster Shaw has shown us that even playing a minion like this on curve is viable as it can be difficult to clear. Deathrattle Hunter will definitely use this and Bomb Hunter may think about it over SN1P-SN4P. Having Nine Lives trigger twice off of Zul'Jin is not bad but it's certainly no game changer.

About the other classes? Warrior and Paladin may improve slightly. I don't think that they will give hunter too many problems. Shaman and Mage are getting a slight buff that will make them better against hunter. That's about it though.

First of all thanks for your impressive analysis: you touched a lot of points and supported your arguments. Well done!

Secondly, I have to admit I crafted him a couple of hours after my post here: I felt like it is a card that won't be ever be bad (maybe just if the whole class is a pile of trash); just slap a couple of good spells in your deck and you'll have a decent turn 10+.

It's been less than 48 hours and he has already won me a considerable amount of games (finisher, last resort, value generator): the game plan radically changes when you know you're going to spend those 10 mana.

Your reasoning is valid whether Hunter will be bad/will use anti-synergistic spells, but until then (I really hope it won't happen) HERE COMES THE BIG AXE!

Just a quick question. Is this post getting moved to the new site after this one closes? Would be sad to lose it, it is a really good one

Edit: wow started page 100 without realising. Hurray!

yes it will

Which deck is more fun during actual play, miracle mage or bomb warrior? As in, which legendary is better craft, Antonidas or Blastmaster Boom?

Quote from 0wing >>

Which deck is more fun during actual play, miracle mage or bomb warrior? As in, which legendary is better craft, Antonidas or Blastmaster Boom?

That is a very close call, but for sheer power rn, I think boom is stronger and more important for the archetype. Cyclone mages are slightly inconsistant.

By the way, I will keep updating this list at this very location. If some placements hurt your eyes, don't be shy, I take all suggestions seriously!

Will it also be published on out of cards?

Quote from noppie88 >>

Will it also be published on out of cards?

 Not by me.

Quote from 0wing >>

Which deck is more fun during actual play, miracle mage or bomb warrior? As in, which legendary is better craft, Antonidas or Blastmaster Boom?

 This question is hard so lets brake it down and then you can decide for yourself if you haven't already.

Fun,and has a more of a wow factor : winner is Cyclone Mage , bomb warrior is not even close.

Is Antonidas necessary for Cyclone Mage:My answear is NOT ,it is more of a win more card in the deck

IS Blastmaster Boom necessary : YES he gives a HUGE winrate boost when actually Played.

Which of the 2 legendary is stronger more usefull : Antonidas altough not needed in cyclon mage he can be played in multiple decks while Blastmaster Boom is stuck to the Boomb Package , also 1 of the cards is evergreen while the other rotates 

Thanks for opinions guys. Crafted Antonidas, useful in Wild OTK deck and cyclone mage is a blast to play.