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I'd go with VanCleef. Even if they nerf Lackey Rogue, Edwin is staple in almost all other kinds of Tempo Rogues, and Tempo Rogue (Rogue as a class!) will hardly go anywhere. I said "almost", because Hooktusk Rouge usually doesn't run it, although it can. Another note: Lackey Rogue is actually an aggro deck, even more than Odd Rogue.
I crafted Van Cleef some months ago and haven't regret it. He always has a place in Rogue decks and he performs extremely well, especially now when we lack good hard removals. In the worst case, he provokes removals. Tempo Rogue raised again after the Rastakhan's nerfs, the only reason it didn't work before was prevalence of armored Druids and Odd Rogue was a better option, I guess. Raiding Party scyrocketed the archetype.
Warrior isn't broken, it's just that you lose 2 out of 3 games on average vs. him, which is quite solid result against the only unfavorable matchup. People think they are capable of winning every game in HS, which is a wrong perception. And some defeats can feel very bad, because some decks have win conditions different than common punching of an opponent's head. The solution here is to ignore those experiences and just focus on calculating straight wins and loses. ...Warrior isn't broken, but he's somewhat polarizing. Losing almost always against mech hunter, paladin and mage.
Van Cleef certainly helps against Warrior. Other tips: if you're on coin, and you run Thug, coin him. Hit the head more often than not. You maybe don't have them, but some people run Togwaggle (scheme, too) or Nomi to counter Warrior. Warrior can play bad and have bad draw, luck, too.
When I was climbing to 5 in Standard (playing a lot in Wild, recently), I wasn't facing a lot of Warriors. By taking a look on my stats, in my last 9 games before rank 5, I encountered just one Warior and that was a W: https://hsreplay.net/replay/kowd24QYZL9zs9ww39u4DK Even if you lose all games vs. Warriors, you'll probably win many games vs. other classes and reach the rank floor. Don't give up. Negative streaks happen to everybody. Warriors are more prevalent on ranks 3,2,1...
Stalladris is a nice card, but your winrate with Token Druid will not suffer without it. Soularium is a nice card, too, but is replaceable and now is more boring then before when you could use it in Healock and Mecha'thun.
“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Clearly Van Cleef is the way to go, becasue it is a classic card and bay far the strongest of these three.
Always expect the unexpectable!
Thanx allot u guys. Crafting it now. I actually have Nomi too but seems like maybe not worth the slott?
Edit, Vancleef is broken. What a craft. Makes the deck so much more consistent. And Nomi, probably making the deck slightly weaker in general, is actually fun and wins u that rare warrior game when u get to the end.
just made a 16-16 Cleef against druid on t3 xD
Yeah, I also didn't believe in VanCleef's power until I crafted him. :) Right now, he's better than ever before; and makes his deck much better. 16-16 Cleef on 3. Very nice! Today I managed to get 10-10 on 2. :)
Regarding Nomi, if you don't run Myra's, he's very bad. Even with Myra's he's situational. Helps win some games (vs. Warrior) here and there. I wouldn't recommend you to craft him, but as you already have him, do some play-testing, for sure. I'll try Togwaggle and see can he help vs. Warrior.
“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
I have Myra, Nomi is winning me games almost r6 now. Just running the nomi version so far... its just more fun and wins allot of warrior games.
Plz tell me how Togwaggle do. I like broken rng :)
Ps made five in the end running nomi Myra version, it won me a few games. But I would say it was a grind. I don’t feel rogue is more broken than Kadghar mage bomb hunter and any warrior. The problem is like usual too much polarized decks. Stone paper scissors meta.
Madame Lazul being Tier 5 is literally absolute complete horseshit. It's the only card so far that lets you peek at your opponent's hand. In that respect, it also plays an excellent psychological game - your opponent panics, switches up their strategy hastily and starts making easy mistakes. Even if their hand is trash it has uses.
Every time I played her, my opponents started making amateur mistakes. Only time she's genuinely useless is in adventures/AI in general, and botted accounts.
Azalina Soulthief does that job much better.
There is nothing suggesting that Madame Lazul doesn't belong in tier 5 based on how she performs. She does not have any synergies which makes her a must-have for an oddball deck either.
She does better in wild, though, and might be tier 4 there as a filler in Higlander decks.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Priest is absolute horseshit. Bring us a tier 3 or higher deck that runs Lazul and you'll be right. Remember: a card can be powerful as much as you want, but if it doesn't find a good place in the meta then it's useless.
Azalina soulthief is double the cost and gets rid of your own hand. Not even close to the same thing.
A 3 mana 3/2 "Discover a card from your opponents class" is already solid, rogue's is 3/3 generate random and it's basically a staple. It also lets you see at least 1/3 of your opponents hand and play around the cards they have as early as turn 3, although you'd want it more turn 5 or 6.
As for how she performs, that's irrelevant. She's being played almost exclusively in decks that already have a 40-42% winrate, at low ranks. There's no way to gauge how good she is from small amounts of numbers by bad players
If nobody uses her at higher rank and nobody get ha good winrate with her decks, it is a very strong indicator that the card is bad. Rogue cards are different as they do have synergies with having stolen cards in their hand. Madame Lazul is just does not fit in any priest decks atm. I could possibly see her in some grindy value deck, but even then she seems too weak.
Drakonid Operative is a good indicator of what is needed for a card like that to be strong, and he is a dragon himself. The handreading aspect is overrated and will very rarely win you games. This was obvious with Chameleos.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Open the Waygate should be promoted to higher tier
due to rise of new tempo quest mage with Mana Cyclone and Magic Trick
Van cleef is probably the best class legendary from the classic set IMO. especially with how good rogue is at the minute. I'm starting to see Ala'kir for shaman see a lot more use, but still not as impactful as Edwin Wincleef.
hey guys. I got a golden legendary so naturally I'm going to dust it to get something I need to make other decks.
I'm thinking maybe Electra Stormsurge as she seems great for Shaman, or Flark for hunter (although I have a hunter deck I'm very happy with that only runs spider bombs for bombs, so he's not as high on my list now)
Other cards I could do with are Zentimo, maybe Houndmaster shaw now I'm getting into more hunter decks that aren't just mono type like masters call decks or mono mech decks. With this in mind, Subject Nine is quite appealing to me as well as I can set up a sort of pseudo "yogg and load" type of deck with S9 and Zul'jin.
I think I will mostly get use out of something for Shaman or Hunter at the moment though.
I could go the route of epics and get my far sights for shaman and also maybe get the hench clan hags as they are ideal for shudderwok murlocs (although I can run a great number of murloc decks already without them, if you go the shudderwok route the extra tokens are pretty much needed though)
I have been watching the wild pyro style control shamans recently that run far sight (Hunterace has one in the current HCT) so they are definitely near the top of my craft list.
I have however invested heavily into shaman recently, having crafted around 6 epics and 5 legendaries for the class this month alone, so maybe spreading round the wealth a bit could be a good idea.
But Electra is pretty much needed for my aggressive Elemental/Overload deck ideas (as is Zentimo in all honesty, so I'd still not be able to finish those decks anyway) the 2 x far sights would get me closer to the pyro deck, if not have one version finished at least.
Flark is all I need for bomb hunter. Shaw could be used in bomb hunter, but can also be used in some dual or multi type hunter deck. Not sure if really worth it or not though as like I say, I have a hunter deck that works well without these guys.
Subject 9 is a good idea on paper, but I'm really not sure if there's even any space for that kind of deck right now.
Which of those cards would you guys craft anyway, please?
or should I just yolo it and get tak nozwhisker for my meme rogues? I got the barista already, so with tak I could make the dirtiest pogo hopper tog-shuffle decks.
uh ... i cannot really recommend any of them.
electra is a great card, but not important to really decide matches. zentimo is more memy atm, it seems. houndmaster definitely is a safe craft, because he rocks in any deck that is not a beast hunter deck. he has more impact than electra, if you ask me. no idea how s9 is doing, but s9 is *very* meta dependent, so i don't like the card at all. secret paladin & s9? maybe. flark? yeah, it's great right now, but it used to be trash and it easily can fall out of favor again. would not advise crafting him.
as for zuljin i would rather advise to go the spell-midrange hunter version, i myself enjoy it a lot and it's good. can even outfatigue elysiana warriors if you can be careful with your resources.
if you crafted a lot for shaman it might be good to pursue the route and go with electra & farsights. that way you should always have cards to play the strongest shaman deck around. plus at this very moment it seems it's a card you can make very good use of.
but note that most of the time electra just feels like you had another copy of the spell in hand that you copied. but then you leave a 3/3 on the board. which really is great, but you rarely combine her with a spell that costs less than 3 mana, so for turn 6+ that effect is just not that huge. and unlike godfrey, if combined with board clears, she dies usually as well. so ... nice to have, won't affect your win rates too much.
if you wanna be flexible then i personally can recommend shaw more than electra - he is a huge threat on the board if left unchecked. right now decks with masters call do very well, but i guess he is being run in mech hunters. and he will be an auto include in any non-spell non-beast hunter deck to come, because his effect is just one the strongest that had ever been attached to such a strong and solid body, i.e., even on curve this card is just great.
Cross-server challenge-a-friend quest trading:
If you play primarily on NA, but also on EU, then maybe you are interested in cross-server trading? Whenever I get the 80g quest on NA I would love to give it away and get it on EU in return. If you'd like a long-lasting trade routine, drop me a message here on hearthpwn!
Yogg-Saron challenge:
Whenever you encounter a Yogg Saron player - concede in honor and send a friend request. It takes balls to play a card that usually results in your own death. :D
thank you for this guide
ok, so i have enough dust for a legendary again. I’m kind of considering the Soularium for zoo. Although I hear people say the deck is not that good, but it’s still top of Hsreplay.
Having that said I am missing like 6 rare and 2 epics for Nomi Miracle priest. That looks kind of fun but seem to be a instaloose to rogue etc... anyone have any experience with this deck?
What you guys think?
Also just opened Khadgar the other day and already have alextrasa and Antonia’s etc but I seem to be a few legendary of the top shelf mage deck that isn’t even that prevalent on ladder... thnx
if you can build conjurer mage, then it looks great.
I wouldn't listen too much about people saying "zoo is bad" they're just basing it off a tournament which is not the same as ladder at all.
also there is more than just the carpet zoo. I have a new plot twist zoo that might be even better than carpet, it just requires a lot more thinking as it's very easy to over draw by turn 4 if you're not careful. I regularly have 9 cards in hand by turn 3 with it, it's crazy.
if you get the coin, and have both plot twist and solarium in hand, that means you can shuffle an extra four cards into your hand by playing soularium and then shuffling the cards back in with plot twist. There is so much still to be learned about the archetype, so it would be cool if there were more people playing it too.
I don't think many people have picked up on it yet though tbh. I can send you the deck if you like.
thanks man. I'm just seeing this now. I went for electra anyway as I didn't have oblivitron to go with shaw (although now I have unpacked a golden oblivitron, I am going to be looking into playing a death rattle deck ASAP) so electra seemed best as I have so much shaman stuff already. She goes great in aggressive overload decks where you can double up on bloodlust, rain of frogs, soul of murloc etc.
She is great in a particular deck I'm playing right now. it's a lot like the one A8 had at HCT, just without the control tools. I swear I didn't steal it off him though, I got the idea from a chinese kid like the 2nd day of LoS when I was looking into branching into shaman.
In fact I posted it in my "control shaman" thread as HS replay has the aggro overload decks mixed in with the control shaman decks for some reason.
(TBH most decks are invented by little known chinese prodigies IMO. some streamers will admit it, others not so much. the ones that admit it though have now basically dry snitched on the other guys :D )
OK, kind of got d-railed there. hahaha. thanks for your advice man, it's appreciated. I think next I start to get more hunter tools saying as I have that glorious, golden oblivitron.
I'm failing to see what an ideal play for it is tbf though. I really need to look into deckbuilding with oblivitron, and what works best. I do already have the 2 x nine lives and Zul'jin though, so I'm probably able to build something.
also btw dude I ended up with a really cool hunter deck if you wanna see it? I have decided to start trying to make different decks again as then you don't run the risk so much of your cards getting nerfed.
take a dump tier deck and make it good. that's the way. ha ha.