What do you guys think about Oblivitron so far? I've been keeping an eye on mechrattle hunter and it just looks too good with nine lives and the right mech deathrattles. Gotta say though that it looked like pure shit when it was revealed and even the whole mech package seemed unsatisfying but it's shaping up real nice so far.
I will try to give a bit of feedback on the placements:
Voone gone up quite a bit post rotation probably tier 2 Dragon warrior is tier 2 with good win rate in HSreplay.
Bumped up to tier 3 but might go down to 4 when the dust settles.
Blastmaster boom definitely a tier 1 legendary I am yet to face this card actually but bomb warrior seems really strong and if you play it post boom hero card with 2 bombs you auto win.
Yup, placed in tier 1 as the first card of the expansion. Everyone should know this card is bonkers by now. I'll wait a bit on placing the other new cards as there is a very high chance of being wrong at this point. Harrison Jones is moved to tier 1 as a result of the new strong weapons.
Is Tirion still tier 1? I mean paladin doesn't seem to be doing well..
No, he isn't. Demoted to tier 2 as he will most likely come back at some point, especially with The Lich King out of standard. Malygos followed him down.
It just feels bad to promote cards from the trash tier if some synergy shows up again in the future. There might also be metas where there are less brutal punishes in the form of big summon, ramp and draw spells.
So even though we're still very early, there is some settling occurring. Here are my suggestions based off of playing, watching, and studying. As always, thanks SlydE for your work on this list!
Tier 1
Archmage Vargoth - Yea, he's still performing really well even though it's not in gallery priest. Currently insane in token druid and hunter with some experimentation with value warrior, mage, and priest.
Blastmaster Boom - While I still believe that he will drop tiers when the meta settles, I can't deny that he's an excellent closer in warrior. I can count the number of times I've still won after my opponent played him on a single hand.
Tier 2
Archivist Elysiana - Performing very well as a control anti-fatigue mechanic as well as having some use against opponents who try to corrupt your deck with Dr. Boom's bombs or Hakkar's blood.
Keeper Stalladris - Great in token druid and will probably get better over time (as well as in wild with Jade Idol). Why not tier 1 right now because token druid is a tier 1 deck? He's not really adding much to that deck beyond a mid-game Power of the Wild buff.
Khadgar - Surprisingly performing better than expected. Most people are combining him with Jan'alai, the Dragonhawk and that's why they are having problems. Without Baku the Mooneater, Jan'alai is horribly under-performing.
Oblivitron - In a vacuum this card is terrible, but when combined with Zilliax, Mechanical Whelp, and Nine Lives, it's performing pretty well... much better than people originally thought.
Tier 3
Catrina Muerte - A good card which is unfortunately stuck in one of the worst performing class at the moment. She is doing fine in wild where they have access to all of the (playable) resurrection cards. If you play priest, she is recommended, but it's not really recommended to play priest. ;)
Heistbaron Togwaggle - Sure the treasures can be powerful but not as much as you might think and he's a major tempo loss unless you are playing on turn 10 with lackey, him, then the treasure. The games where he's winning are due to rogue being strong; he's just along for the ride.
Kalecgos - A very powerful card if you can manage to stay alive long enough to play him.
Tier 4
Arch-Villain Rafaam - Zoolock is a tier 1 deck right now, but Rafaam is probably only helping win every 20th game or so. If you get to the point where you *have* to play him, it's a crap-shoot. He is certainly not on the same tier as Deathstalker Rexxar was in midrange hunter. At least he has taunt.
Barista Lynchen - There has been some experimentation with her but she comes off as a win-more card at best. Zola the Gorgon worked better because you could often play both her and the card that you wanted to copy in the same turn.
Chef Nomi - It looks like Rise of Shadows gave us a lot of the "last ditch legendary" archetype. You only run him if you are planning on fatiguing and his played winrate is mediocre. I want to put him in trash tier but pros have been winning with him so what do I know.
Commander Rhyssa - The loss of Divine Favor isn't the only thing hurting secret paladin, it's the fact that many of the paladin secrets (at least in standard anyway) aren't that much better when they trigger twice.
Jepetto Joybuzz - I think he'd be doing better if it weren't for the loss of all of Year of the Mammoth's infinite survival mechanics. Being a well performing lynch pin in tier 3-4 decks is the perfect definition of niche.
Scargil - Murloc shaman is a decent deck but it's not because of him but because of Underbelly Angler. Murlocs are already pretty cheap so making them cost 1 isn't really going to change things too much. He may actually end up going into trash when people cut him to improve their winrates.
Swampqueen Hagatha - A decent tempo loss for a decent value gain but not on the same turn. She isn't performing terribly but not great enough to warrant inclusion in most decks. Note, her Horror's battlecry is currently not being copied with Shudderwock. Blizzard has not confirmed if this is a bug or not.
Vereesa Windrunner - Spell damage hunter is probably a tier 2 deck at best; most likely being tier 3. She is a staple in that deck though, so if you're going to try it you need her.
Tier 5
Fel Lord Betrug - Plot Twist warlock is really really bad. It seems his best use is meme charge decks in wild and even then, you're better off playing the degenerate Darkest Hour deck.
Lucentbark - Whether heal druid will become the next freeze shaman or the next discard warlock remains to be seen, but one thing is for sure: it sucks now and it will still probably suck later whether it gets more support cards or not.
Madame Lazul - So instead of being a worse version of Drakonid Operative, it seems she really is just a worse version of Chameleos. While there is merit to knowing 3 cards in your opponent's hand, she still requires you to play her to get that info. Priest scrying minion heirarchy: big lizard > small lizard > Lazul
Nozari - I guess that she would be alright if you could play her immediately following High Priest Thekal. She is probably the worst 4/12 stat line dragon ever printed, and that includes the nameless Sleepy Dragon and the uncollectable Razorgore. Probably the only reason she is a paladin legendary instead of a class legendary isn't because of use in control decks, but to cut back on priest mutually assured destruction memes.
Tak Nozwhisker - Ouch. If you enjoy thief rogue, by all means play Tak for the memes. Just don't expect to win that many games.
The Boom Reaver - It takes a lot of effort to make big warrior a tier 4 deck. So much effort that this thing would probably still be bad at 8 or 9 mana.
i dont know about Professor Putricide is a tier 3 in wild sure he is playable but deck he supporting is secret hunter that is at best tier 4 and secret hunter get huge nerf with spellstone nerf
also Arch-Villain Rafaam is really good card and has a good winrate in standard at least bcuz his battlecry is really useful duo to huge amount of control warriors and bomb warrios on ladder and he has a decent body
he is semi similar to Deathstalker Rexxar who give u chance to change your gameplan and beat control decks but not that powerful though
Does Sonya Shadowdancer deserve to be in T3 because she is played in Big Rogue?
I put her there anyway, the deck seems to be doing ok.
The problem is that there is very little data and few people have personal experience playing with and against many of the cards. Her description needed the update, thanks!
Is Beltrug really that bad? (i mean to the point of placing tier 5 instead of tier 4) ? It's one of the legendaries I still don't have so I can't really try him out personaly (especialy since I've already used too much dust on others), but I've seen a fun plot twist warlock list (tier 4, so yeah not great) using it, it's one of the better performing card in the deck. I can't imagine this being completely iredeemable. The deck isn't performing great, but because it's just a worse handlock which is also a tightspot right now.
With performance alone, if you place beltrug tiers 5 then cards like lazul Nozari or lucendark are also tiers 5, yet none of these looks as bad as other tiers 5 residents.
I've collected some amount of dust. Please, redpill me on some crafts for wild, which are the first three legendaries to craft first? Collection is in the profile. Thx in advance.
Is Beltrug really that bad? (i mean to the point of placing tier 5 instead of tier 4) ? It's one of the legendaries I still don't have so I can't really try him out personaly (especialy since I've already used too much dust on others), but I've seen a fun plot twist warlock list (tier 4, so yeah not great) using it, it's one of the better performing card in the deck. I can't imagine this being completely iredeemable. The deck isn't performing great, but because it's just a worse handlock which is also a tightspot right now.
With performance alone, if you place beltrug tiers 5 then cards like lazul Nozari or lucendark are also tiers 5, yet none of these looks as bad as other tiers 5 residents.
The problem is that the minions die, so the effect is both build-around, situational and unreliable. Maybe some deathrattle deck can save him from tier 5??
Yes, some other cards will likely go to tier 5 as well, but there are arguments for jamming it all into tier 4 until we know for sure.
What do you guys think about Oblivitron so far? I've been keeping an eye on mechrattle hunter and it just looks too good with nine lives and the right mech deathrattles. Gotta say though that it looked like pure shit when it was revealed and even the whole mech package seemed unsatisfying but it's shaping up real nice so far.
Bumped up to tier 3 but might go down to 4 when the dust settles.
Yup, placed in tier 1 as the first card of the expansion. Everyone should know this card is bonkers by now. I'll wait a bit on placing the other new cards as there is a very high chance of being wrong at this point. Harrison Jones is moved to tier 1 as a result of the new strong weapons.
No, he isn't. Demoted to tier 2 as he will most likely come back at some point, especially with The Lich King out of standard. Malygos followed him down.
Could be, but it is too early to tell, both how good those hunter decks are when the decks are figured out and how important he is in them.
Not yet afaik. Remember many good 1-drops are out of standard, so he has limited use even in those decks.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Thanks SlydE. As always your work is greatly appreciated. Obviously a new expansion with so many cards rotating out is a busy time.
I think Tess Greymane should be at least tier 4 or 3, since she sees some play with RoS.
Archivist Elysiana is surly tier 2. Countering fatigue and destroying bombs as any control deck seems super good.
Heistbaron Togwaggle is tier 1 imo. He os being played in a lot of tempo decks and has a great winrate.
To me Khadgar is so slow, he might even be tier 5, but i'm not sure.
I guess Millhouse should go back to T5
It just feels bad to promote cards from the trash tier if some synergy shows up again in the future. There might also be metas where there are less brutal punishes in the form of big summon, ramp and draw spells.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Updates so far, this was a MAJOR shakeup!
12.04
Edwin VanCleef Tier 2 to 1
Face Collector Tier 5 to 4
Tinkmaster Overspark Tier 2 to 4
Jan'alai, the Dragonhawk Tier 2 to 4
Mojomaster Zihi Tier 1 to 2
Tess Greymane Tier 5 to 3
Blastmaster Boom To Tier 1
Harrison Jones Tier 2 to 1
War Master Voone Tier 5 to 3
Tirion Fordring Tier 1 to 2
Malygos Tier 1 to 2
11.04
Lord Jaraxxus Tier 4 to 3
Da Undatakah Tier 3 to 4
High Priestess Jeklik Tier 3 to 4
Myra's Unstable Element Tier 2 to 1
Subject 9 Tier 1 to 2
Captain Greenskin Tier 3 to 1
Zerek's Cloning Gallery Tier 1 to 3
Prince Liam Tier 2 to 4
The Glass Knight Tier 2 to 4
Dr. Boom, Mad Genius Tier 2 to 1
Prophet Velen Tier 1 to 3
10.04
Captain Greenskin Tier 1 to 3
Baron Geddon Tier 2 to 3
King Krush Tier 1 to 3
Oondasta Tier 1 to 3
It might be safe to place some more new cards which have seen a lot of play in the list already...
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
I still think Iorn Juggernaut should be T4.
So even though we're still very early, there is some settling occurring. Here are my suggestions based off of playing, watching, and studying. As always, thanks SlydE for your work on this list!
Tier 1
Archmage Vargoth - Yea, he's still performing really well even though it's not in gallery priest. Currently insane in token druid and hunter with some experimentation with value warrior, mage, and priest.
Blastmaster Boom - While I still believe that he will drop tiers when the meta settles, I can't deny that he's an excellent closer in warrior. I can count the number of times I've still won after my opponent played him on a single hand.
Tier 2
Archivist Elysiana - Performing very well as a control anti-fatigue mechanic as well as having some use against opponents who try to corrupt your deck with Dr. Boom's bombs or Hakkar's blood.
Keeper Stalladris - Great in token druid and will probably get better over time (as well as in wild with Jade Idol). Why not tier 1 right now because token druid is a tier 1 deck? He's not really adding much to that deck beyond a mid-game Power of the Wild buff.
Khadgar - Surprisingly performing better than expected. Most people are combining him with Jan'alai, the Dragonhawk and that's why they are having problems. Without Baku the Mooneater, Jan'alai is horribly under-performing.
Oblivitron - In a vacuum this card is terrible, but when combined with Zilliax, Mechanical Whelp, and Nine Lives, it's performing pretty well... much better than people originally thought.
Tier 3
Catrina Muerte - A good card which is unfortunately stuck in one of the worst performing class at the moment. She is doing fine in wild where they have access to all of the (playable) resurrection cards. If you play priest, she is recommended, but it's not really recommended to play priest. ;)
Heistbaron Togwaggle - Sure the treasures can be powerful but not as much as you might think and he's a major tempo loss unless you are playing on turn 10 with lackey, him, then the treasure. The games where he's winning are due to rogue being strong; he's just along for the ride.
Kalecgos - A very powerful card if you can manage to stay alive long enough to play him.
Tier 4
Arch-Villain Rafaam - Zoolock is a tier 1 deck right now, but Rafaam is probably only helping win every 20th game or so. If you get to the point where you *have* to play him, it's a crap-shoot. He is certainly not on the same tier as Deathstalker Rexxar was in midrange hunter. At least he has taunt.
Barista Lynchen - There has been some experimentation with her but she comes off as a win-more card at best. Zola the Gorgon worked better because you could often play both her and the card that you wanted to copy in the same turn.
Chef Nomi - It looks like Rise of Shadows gave us a lot of the "last ditch legendary" archetype. You only run him if you are planning on fatiguing and his played winrate is mediocre. I want to put him in trash tier but pros have been winning with him so what do I know.
Commander Rhyssa - The loss of Divine Favor isn't the only thing hurting secret paladin, it's the fact that many of the paladin secrets (at least in standard anyway) aren't that much better when they trigger twice.
Jepetto Joybuzz - I think he'd be doing better if it weren't for the loss of all of Year of the Mammoth's infinite survival mechanics. Being a well performing lynch pin in tier 3-4 decks is the perfect definition of niche.
Scargil - Murloc shaman is a decent deck but it's not because of him but because of Underbelly Angler. Murlocs are already pretty cheap so making them cost 1 isn't really going to change things too much. He may actually end up going into trash when people cut him to improve their winrates.
Swampqueen Hagatha - A decent tempo loss for a decent value gain but not on the same turn. She isn't performing terribly but not great enough to warrant inclusion in most decks. Note, her Horror's battlecry is currently not being copied with Shudderwock. Blizzard has not confirmed if this is a bug or not.
Vereesa Windrunner - Spell damage hunter is probably a tier 2 deck at best; most likely being tier 3. She is a staple in that deck though, so if you're going to try it you need her.
Tier 5
Fel Lord Betrug - Plot Twist warlock is really really bad. It seems his best use is meme charge decks in wild and even then, you're better off playing the degenerate Darkest Hour deck.
Lucentbark - Whether heal druid will become the next freeze shaman or the next discard warlock remains to be seen, but one thing is for sure: it sucks now and it will still probably suck later whether it gets more support cards or not.
Madame Lazul - So instead of being a worse version of Drakonid Operative, it seems she really is just a worse version of Chameleos. While there is merit to knowing 3 cards in your opponent's hand, she still requires you to play her to get that info. Priest scrying minion heirarchy: big lizard > small lizard > Lazul
Nozari - I guess that she would be alright if you could play her immediately following High Priest Thekal. She is probably the worst 4/12 stat line dragon ever printed, and that includes the nameless Sleepy Dragon and the uncollectable Razorgore. Probably the only reason she is a paladin legendary instead of a class legendary isn't because of use in control decks, but to cut back on priest mutually assured destruction memes.
Tak Nozwhisker - Ouch. If you enjoy thief rogue, by all means play Tak for the memes. Just don't expect to win that many games.
The Boom Reaver - It takes a lot of effort to make big warrior a tier 4 deck. So much effort that this thing would probably still be bad at 8 or 9 mana.
Mukla, Tyrant of the Vale should be in T5. He sees little play and has been replaced by Banana Buffoon.
i dont know about Professor Putricide is a tier 3 in wild sure he is playable but deck he supporting is secret hunter that is at best tier 4 and secret hunter get huge nerf with spellstone nerf
also Arch-Villain Rafaam is really good card and has a good winrate in standard at least bcuz his battlecry is really useful duo to huge amount of control warriors and bomb warrios on ladder and he has a decent body
he is semi similar to Deathstalker Rexxar who give u chance to change your gameplan and beat control decks but not that powerful though
Some more new cards have been placed!
Fel Lord Betrug To Tier 5
Archmage Vargoth To Tier 1
Keeper Stalladris To Tier 1
Chef Nomi To Tier 2
Heistbaron Togwaggle To Tier 2
Archivist Elysiana To Tier 2
Thanks for the feedback guys, also for the Wild section. There are obviously a lot of details to correct for such a big meta shakeup.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Does Sonya Shadowdancer deserve to be in T3 because she is played in Big Rogue?
I put her there anyway, the deck seems to be doing ok.
The problem is that there is very little data and few people have personal experience playing with and against many of the cards. Her description needed the update, thanks!
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Shouldn't Troggzor have an actual description which describes what he's good/bad at.
Is he used for something?
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
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Is Beltrug really that bad? (i mean to the point of placing tier 5 instead of tier 4) ? It's one of the legendaries I still don't have so I can't really try him out personaly (especialy since I've already used too much dust on others), but I've seen a fun plot twist warlock list (tier 4, so yeah not great) using it, it's one of the better performing card in the deck. I can't imagine this being completely iredeemable. The deck isn't performing great, but because it's just a worse handlock which is also a tightspot right now.
With performance alone, if you place beltrug tiers 5 then cards like lazul Nozari or lucendark are also tiers 5, yet none of these looks as bad as other tiers 5 residents.
I've collected some amount of dust. Please, redpill me on some crafts for wild, which are the first three legendaries to craft first? Collection is in the profile. Thx in advance.
The problem is that the minions die, so the effect is both build-around, situational and unreliable. Maybe some deathrattle deck can save him from tier 5??
Yes, some other cards will likely go to tier 5 as well, but there are arguments for jamming it all into tier 4 until we know for sure.
Edit:
Some more updates:
Commander Rhyssa To tier 2
Madame Lazul To tier 5
Lucentbark To tier 5
Scargil To tier 2
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Golden Scargil worth keeping? I have no intention of playing murloc shaman and it just seems like I could craft anything else with it lol