So we all know, that next expansion we will be getting legendary weapons. So the answer comes - will be the anti-weapon techcards be nerfed? I know this won't be logical, but just imagine how people constantly run Oozes, which hinder the popularity of including those cards. Normally when blizz considers a card being "limiting design space", they hit it with the nerf bat. I'm NOT wishing for such a thing, I like them how they are.
So that was my question - do you think, that the Oozes will get nerfed, maybe have the effect of Toxic Sewer Ooze, so that people won't be afraid to invest their dust in the new legendary weapons?
So where is this guy going? My feeling is tier 3 or 4:
Like the mod under your post - it would be a niche card, only for fun. People include him for casual experience or for innerfire priest combos. I also think, that he will be overshadowed in a month or so.
So where is this guy going? My feeling is tier 3 or 4:
Like the mod under your post - it would be a niche card, only for fun. People include him for casual experience or for innerfire priest combos. I also think, that he will be overshadowed in a month or so.
Sooo a tier above the trash one.
That is where he was quietly placed some days ago.
As for wapon removal, I had an idea that some of those cards would not count as weapons, like quests do no count as secrets. Too early to tell...
I got him (from pack, not crafted) but i rarely use him.
As stated above, there are cheaper options and thats where Harrison struggles. If you need a removal before turn 5, you got a problem. If you have a full hand, the card draw is more of a punishment then a gain, so you got a problem.
I think most of the time Harrison gets played its just without the battlecry. The few times i managed to get him out and it was perfect were nice tho, but to rare to bother.
I got him (from pack, not crafted) but i rarely use him.
As stated above, there are cheaper options and thats where Harrison struggles. If you need a removal before turn 5, you got a problem. If you have a full hand, the card draw is more of a punishment then a gain, so you got a problem.
I think most of the time Harrison gets played its just without the battlecry. The few times i managed to get him out and it was perfect were nice tho, but to rare to bother.
So we all know, that next expansion we will be getting legendary weapons. So the answer comes - will be the anti-weapon techcards be nerfed? I know this won't be logical, but just imagine how people constantly run Oozes, which hinder the popularity of including those cards. Normally when blizz considers a card being "limiting design space", they hit it with the nerf bat. I'm NOT wishing for such a thing, I like them how they are.
So that was my question - do you think, that the Oozes will get nerfed, maybe have the effect of Toxic Sewer Ooze, so that people won't be afraid to invest their dust in the new legendary weapons?
That would sure make Doomhammer look better - a loss of 1 durability hurts a lot less than loosing the whole weapon. I don't think they would nerf harrison jones this way though - too many people would get a full refund for him. And if he is the lone weapon destroyer, he sure would get a huge bump in popularity. Seems like a lose-lose.
I am not a fan of this weapons angle so far. Unless is can seriously shake up the meta - especially wild. Wild is all gimmicks right now - you can't play control, you can't play midrange unless you are paladin, you are mostly stuck with either aggro (which gets curb stopped by priest), or you are priest. If you don't care about being tier one, you can also play giants hunter or big priest which aren't that great, but totally oppressive to control decks which could otherwise keep priest in check.
That is where he was quietly placed some days ago.
As for wapon removal, I had an idea that some of those cards would not count as weapons, like quests do no count as secrets. Too early to tell...
1) first off - you asked me for a favour (at least I thought it was such, you replied to me long ago about the non legendary cards listing; this weekend I would share my opinion about it; sorry for taking so long)
2) now the important parts - but although quests had something visually similar as the secrets, their mechanic wasn't like those cards and thus they weren't countered by anti-secret techs. The only resemblance is the "balloon" on people's faces.
3) but the devs stated, that they will implement legendary weapons. Look at the two cards - Aluneth & Dragon Soul - both have durability and attack. So just like legendary minions are countered by AoE, like quests are countered by Counterspell (or e.g. Troggzor the Earthinator, Loatheb etc) the same way legendary weapons won't be an exception and will be countered by their appropriate answer (anti-weapons techs). If this wasn't the case, then the devs could have implemented a fifth card-type, which would have had a different frame style.
[edit] And this is what bothers me. I have the fear, that people will start running Oozes very often in their decks, so often, that blizz will say some sh*t like "We at blizzard HQ care about people's play experience. We think, that everyone should have fun while testing new cards, that everyone should have a cool and exciting time, when playing hs. But certain tech cards hinder this experience. We also worry about how often these cards pop up in ladder decks. There is no diversity in people's deck-building. They make you think - I must counter this strategy. So we thought, that Oozes have to get nerfed - from now one they will no longer destroy the weapon, but will take a single durability of it. That way people will have exciting experience with their new cards and some old ones will have their opportunity to be remembered. All in all this was the correct choice to do"...
mhm, not forgetting to repeat "cool", "new" and "exciting" in almost every single sentence
but jokes aside, this is a tendency, which I think will come. I have the feeling, that the devs will surprise us with news like these, all because people started playing a natural counter for a certain card. And I don't blame them for trying to maintain the usage of new cards, especially when they are ought to be legendary ones, special on their own, but I don't want to see the hard counters being punished for their effect. So yeah...
but still, I'm kinda worried. Don't forget, that Harrison is bad against aggro; if we have a meta similar to the pirate one back in MSoG (forgive me, God, for my treacherous words) then Harrison as the only weapon killer won't be that helpful. He would be too slow to save you from an early extra sharped, aka buffed, weapon. He may gain some popularity at first, but when people realize, that the aforementioned things, then people will replace him - maybe with taunt, heals, freeze etc. Don't forget, that blizz won't stop promoting their new stuff. I don't want to sound like those guys, how repeat the $$$ argument, but a true merchant, in order to keep the customer satisfied, will always bring new things to the table, which would freshen up the experience. If an old and cheap ware threatens to overshadow them, then the merchant will be forced to react - either they will stop showing the old stuff, they will make them worse in quality or they will make the new goods better than the old ones. The first thing is impossible to happen, because this means, that those cards should be "deleted" from the game, the last ones means - powercreep, so this leaves us with the second option.
I'm don't want to sound like a person, who acts like he is some sort of a professional or something like that. I'm NOT, this was just my opinion.
Marketing (taken from wikipedia) - the management process responsible for identifying, anticipating and satisfying customer requirements profitably. The 'marketing concept' proposes that in order to satisfy the organizational objectives, an organization should anticipate the needs and wants of consumers and satisfy these more effectively than competitors.
In other words - I don't think it's a lose-lose situation, if only Harrison stays. The old stuff would only make room for the newer ones.
OK, so I'm ready to share my opinion about the neutral cards for the new players on the bottom side of your original post.
I mostly agree with the list with the exception of Mind Control Tech. Tbh I have only seen him being used in KoFT versions of Jade dudu, even prior to the nerfs he wasn't a necessarily inclusion. We both look at the same statistics - hsreplay here and here - and I understand why you list them that way. You take into consideration, that they have to be as f2p friendly and as neutral as possible. However I don't think that new players will greatly increase their win-rate of their decks with that card; in the current meta you will mostly face aggro (=flooded) decks, so most likely you will end up with a small token or a weak minion. Even if you end up getting a buffed one, let's say from Cobalt Scalebane, I would still think this won't be that worth to determine using the tech.
Imho you also missed other useful cheap minions - Southsea Captain, Acolyte of Pain, Southsea Deckhand, Bloodsail Corsair, Jade Spirit. Ok, let's talk about the pirates for a sec - I'm fully aware, that Patches is the one, that patches™ the aggro decks, i.e. he acts as the needed link between the pirates and the board buffing minions/spells, he provides tempo as well as thinning your deck and thus increasing your chances for getting that Leeroy Jenkins or Savage Roar for example. And the pirates on their own don't work as well in f2p decks, as in the mid- or late game you may end up drawing a useless 2/1. And despite that I still think, that they can be used in f2p tempo decks - mainly rogue (deckhand+cold blood), maybe in some shaman decks with bloodlust and flametongue (better in wild with the Tunnel Trogg and Totem Golem). If the reason for not including them was the aforementioned one, that w/o Patches the pirates aren't that good, and you won't include them in the list, then please, let people know that it's because how important Patches in those decks is, that's why you don't included them in the first place.
You included Loot Hoarder instead of Acolyte of Pain. If you click on this link here and go through all the classes, you will see, that Loot Hoardermainly benefits priest. And the problem is, that that class is not very cheap at all, you would need either N'Zoth or the Kazakus/Reno package to consider running the hoarder. What I want to say is - the minion may be cheap on its own, it may have a fairly positive popularity ratio, but it's all due to the popularity of a specific deck - the Highlander one. Other than freeze mage is the other example I can think of, but that's also quite dust-requiring. Acolyte however benefits more classes - mage (obviously control and freeze), paladin (anyfyn, control), warrior (fatigue, N'Zoth) and priest. Although the given examples may also be quite expensive, imho you can always make cheap versions of them, which won't collapse if you are missing a certain piece (let's say how Highlander doesn't work w/o Raza). The Acolyte is a fine draw enabler in there - they can always ping it and get the maximum value. tl; dr He is more practical than the Hoarder.
Lastly Jade Spirit - again, I'm aware you are aiming to include only neutral minions and this one is rather accessible only to 3 classes. But despite this I still think this is worth the craft - Jade Dudu in its current state may be too expensive for newer players, but cheap versions also have been viable (1 & 2). In shaman you can always make a bloodlust deck with it, benefiting from the extra token or an elemental deck. Rogue is the only class, where you won't be able to make a decent deck, because you would need a lot of support, but still, Jade Spirit is imho a good f2p craft.
I currently have 2000 dust and I'm not sure what to do with it.
I have Cenarius, Marsh Queen, Inkmaster Solia, Frost lich Jaina, pally quest, wickerflame, bolvar fireblood, rag lightlord, tirion, priest quest, lyra, rogue quest, xaril, thrall deathseer, Zavas, lord jaraxxus, bloodreaver guldan, warrior wuest, grommash, scourgelord Garrosh, patches, thalnos, prince keleseth, moroes, arfus, barnes, kazakus, harrison jones, prince malchazar, aya blackpaw, cairne bloodhoof, curator, marin, medivh, the licj king, alexstrasza, sogoth, cthun, nzoth and yogg.
The legendaries that i have thought about crafting include: rotface, deathstalker rector, archmage untidiness, open the way gate, sun keeper tarim, edwin van cleef, Rouge Dk, leeroy jenkins, hemet the jungle hunter or sera.
Another variable that is preventing me from making this choice is if I should save the dust for next expansion of should i use it to build a deck and grind for more gold also for the next expansion? (BTW I'm a standard player unless a really cool wild deck is available with the resources i have). If you need more info as to what cards i have feel free to check my collection and recommend what deck i should build or craft
but again, I might hold of on crafting anything. If you want any deck specifics I can post some decks in the thread but here I'd like to not get the post all cluttered with decks
If you like slower decks, Alexstrasza is the best craft IMO. She has always been relevant in some deck, and will win games for you in big druid.
The legendaries that i have thought about crafting include: rotface, deathstalker rector, archmage untidiness, open the way gate, sun keeper tarim, edwin van cleef, Rouge Dk, leeroy jenkins, hemet the jungle hunter or sera.
Yes, Sunkeeper Tarim is the strongest of those, with Leeroy Jenkins as a close 2nd. The good thing about the former is that he will live on forever in dude-paladin in Wild, as his synergies in that deck are borderline broken. Also, he is a staple in pretty much every paladin deck in both formats atm due to his versatility.
hi guys, sitting on ~12K dust now and I'm itching to craft some legs. My crafting wishlist as follows. help me save dust for the next expac by telling me which ones are not worthy crafts. Thank you.
hi guys, sitting on ~12K dust now and I'm itching to craft some legs. My crafting wishlist as follows. help me save dust for the next expac by telling me which ones are not worthy crafts. Thank you.
I don't think the tier definitions are useful. While cute, they leave room for a lot of ambiguity. I think something like Trump's star rating system would be better (ie. 5 star means they're either staples in a tier 1 deck or used in multiple tier one decks, etc). Not only would that reduce confusion, it would also make it harder to argue that card x beings in tier y, since tiers would be pretty cut and dry.
I also think this list should only address the current meta, instead of evaluating the power in general. Awoken the makers is good in theory, but is basically unplayable right now, so it should be low tier. By mixing the mindsets of "these are dominating the meta" and "these could be great in a certain meta", you're just adding confusion
I don't think the tier definitions are useful. While cute, they leave room for a lot of ambiguity. I think something like Trump's star rating system would be better (ie. 5 star means they're either staples in a tier 1 deck or used in multiple tier one decks, etc). Not only would that reduce confusion, it would also make it harder to argue that card x beings in tier y, since tiers would be pretty cut and dry.
I also think this list should only address the current meta, instead of evaluating the power in general. Awoken the makers is good in theory, but is basically unplayable right now, so it should be low tier. By mixing the mindsets of "these are dominating the meta" and "these could be great in a certain meta", you're just adding confusion
No matter how you describe the tiers, there is no way to have every card fit the description. For example, does a tier 1 legendary have to be used in multiple decks, or is it enough to be important in a very powerful one? It is essentially a 1-5 star ranking, and I don't think it can be misinterpreted much, unless you really want to. The text of each card should also clarify things, and are updated.
Single cards will be moved up and down. Awaken the Makers is a very good card in Wild, but yes, we will consider bumping it down, as it is not doing great in standard atm. If you have other suggestions, please name them, but read the disclaimer in the OP.
I also think this list should only address the current meta, instead of evaluating the power in general.
If you only look at current Meta a tier list is useless anyway as you merely need to look at what deck is current top deck and craft the ones you are missing from that deck list.
A tier list should always take into account future and to do that the past is a good example. I'll check a tier list to find out if people think the card i want to craft will give me value over time, not only during the next month.
hi guys, sitting on ~12K dust now and I'm itching to craft some legs. My crafting wishlist as follows. help me save dust for the next expac by telling me which ones are not worthy crafts. Thank you.
hi guys, sitting on ~12K dust now and I'm itching to craft some legs. My crafting wishlist as follows. help me save dust for the next expac by telling me which ones are not worthy crafts. Thank you.
If you play priest, you probably should have already crafted Lyra. Having 12K dust and still not crafted Lyra makes me think you don't play priest.
Elise is a good card, but you don't see her that much right now. So no real point in crafting her right now either.
I love playing Rexxar myself, but his winrate is terrible. Creating those zombeasts is fun, but to often you won't get there or the options you get are terrible and you still lose.
Jaina can turn around a game, but its so hard to get there. I'm never playing her tbh.
And those to me are the best 4 options out of those 10.
hi guys, sitting on ~12K dust now and I'm itching to craft some legs. My crafting wishlist as follows. help me save dust for the next expac by telling me which ones are not worthy crafts. Thank you.
If you play priest, you probably should have already crafted Lyra. Having 12K dust and still not crafted Lyra makes me think you don't play priest.
Elise is a good card, but you don't see her that much right now. So no real point in crafting her right now either.
I love playing Rexxar myself, but his winrate is terrible. Creating those zombeasts is fun, but to often you won't get there or the options you get are terrible and you still lose.
Jaina can turn around a game, but its so hard to get there. I'm never playing her tbh.
And those to me are the best 4 options out of those 10.
thanks for helping me save dust. lol. I actually play priest but never bothered to craft lyra because of the rng aspect.
I also agree with ur inputs on Jaina, great on paper but difficult to use and usually too late. something tells me that her ability does not exactly fit mage as a whole.
I have a question regarding the posts above:
So we all know, that next expansion we will be getting legendary weapons. So the answer comes - will be the anti-weapon techcards be nerfed? I know this won't be logical, but just imagine how people constantly run Oozes, which hinder the popularity of including those cards. Normally when blizz considers a card being "limiting design space", they hit it with the nerf bat. I'm NOT wishing for such a thing, I like them how they are.
So that was my question - do you think, that the Oozes will get nerfed, maybe have the effect of Toxic Sewer Ooze, so that people won't be afraid to invest their dust in the new legendary weapons?
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
If you need a removal before turn 5, you got a problem.
If you have a full hand, the card draw is more of a punishment then a gain, so you got a problem.
The few times i managed to get him out and it was perfect were nice tho, but to rare to bother.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
2) now the important parts - but although quests had something visually similar as the secrets, their mechanic wasn't like those cards and thus they weren't countered by anti-secret techs. The only resemblance is the "balloon" on people's faces.
OK, so I'm ready to share my opinion about the neutral cards for the new players on the bottom side of your original post.
I mostly agree with the list with the exception of Mind Control Tech. Tbh I have only seen him being used in KoFT versions of Jade dudu, even prior to the nerfs he wasn't a necessarily inclusion. We both look at the same statistics - hsreplay here and here - and I understand why you list them that way. You take into consideration, that they have to be as f2p friendly and as neutral as possible. However I don't think that new players will greatly increase their win-rate of their decks with that card; in the current meta you will mostly face aggro (=flooded) decks, so most likely you will end up with a small token or a weak minion. Even if you end up getting a buffed one, let's say from Cobalt Scalebane, I would still think this won't be that worth to determine using the tech.
Imho you also missed other useful cheap minions - Southsea Captain, Acolyte of Pain, Southsea Deckhand, Bloodsail Corsair, Jade Spirit. Ok, let's talk about the pirates for a sec - I'm fully aware, that Patches is the one, that patches™ the aggro decks, i.e. he acts as the needed link between the pirates and the board buffing minions/spells, he provides tempo as well as thinning your deck and thus increasing your chances for getting that Leeroy Jenkins or Savage Roar for example. And the pirates on their own don't work as well in f2p decks, as in the mid- or late game you may end up drawing a useless 2/1. And despite that I still think, that they can be used in f2p tempo decks - mainly rogue (deckhand+cold blood), maybe in some shaman decks with bloodlust and flametongue (better in wild with the Tunnel Trogg and Totem Golem). If the reason for not including them was the aforementioned one, that w/o Patches the pirates aren't that good, and you won't include them in the list, then please, let people know that it's because how important Patches in those decks is, that's why you don't included them in the first place.
You included Loot Hoarder instead of Acolyte of Pain. If you click on this link here and go through all the classes, you will see, that Loot Hoarder mainly benefits priest. And the problem is, that that class is not very cheap at all, you would need either N'Zoth or the Kazakus/Reno package to consider running the hoarder. What I want to say is - the minion may be cheap on its own, it may have a fairly positive popularity ratio, but it's all due to the popularity of a specific deck - the Highlander one. Other than freeze mage is the other example I can think of, but that's also quite dust-requiring. Acolyte however benefits more classes - mage (obviously control and freeze), paladin (anyfyn, control), warrior (fatigue, N'Zoth) and priest. Although the given examples may also be quite expensive, imho you can always make cheap versions of them, which won't collapse if you are missing a certain piece (let's say how Highlander doesn't work w/o Raza). The Acolyte is a fine draw enabler in there - they can always ping it and get the maximum value. tl; dr He is more practical than the Hoarder.
Lastly Jade Spirit - again, I'm aware you are aiming to include only neutral minions and this one is rather accessible only to 3 classes. But despite this I still think this is worth the craft - Jade Dudu in its current state may be too expensive for newer players, but cheap versions also have been viable (1 & 2). In shaman you can always make a bloodlust deck with it, benefiting from the extra token or an elemental deck. Rogue is the only class, where you won't be able to make a decent deck, because you would need a lot of support, but still, Jade Spirit is imho a good f2p craft.
I currently have 2000 dust and I'm not sure what to do with it.
I have Cenarius, Marsh Queen, Inkmaster Solia, Frost lich Jaina, pally quest, wickerflame, bolvar fireblood, rag lightlord, tirion, priest quest, lyra, rogue quest, xaril, thrall deathseer, Zavas, lord jaraxxus, bloodreaver guldan, warrior wuest, grommash, scourgelord Garrosh, patches, thalnos, prince keleseth, moroes, arfus, barnes, kazakus, harrison jones, prince malchazar, aya blackpaw, cairne bloodhoof, curator, marin, medivh, the licj king, alexstrasza, sogoth, cthun, nzoth and yogg.
The legendaries that i have thought about crafting include: rotface, deathstalker rector, archmage untidiness, open the way gate, sun keeper tarim, edwin van cleef, Rouge Dk, leeroy jenkins, hemet the jungle hunter or sera.
Another variable that is preventing me from making this choice is if I should save the dust for next expansion of should i use it to build a deck and grind for more gold also for the next expansion? (BTW I'm a standard player unless a really cool wild deck is available with the resources i have). If you need more info as to what cards i have feel free to check my collection and recommend what deck i should build or craft
Thank you
Yes, Sunkeeper Tarim is the strongest of those, with Leeroy Jenkins as a close 2nd. The good thing about the former is that he will live on forever in dude-paladin in Wild, as his synergies in that deck are borderline broken. Also, he is a staple in pretty much every paladin deck in both formats atm due to his versatility.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
hi guys, sitting on ~12K dust now and I'm itching to craft some legs. My crafting wishlist as follows. help me save dust for the next expac by telling me which ones are not worthy crafts. Thank you.
1. Lyra the Sunshard
2. Awaken the Makers
3. Elise the Trailblazer
4. Yogg-Saron, Hope's End
5. Krul the Unshackled
6. Kun the Forgotten King
7. Valeera the Hollow
8. Frost Lich Jaina
9. Deathstalker Rexxar
10. Scourgelord Garrosh
I don't think the tier definitions are useful. While cute, they leave room for a lot of ambiguity. I think something like Trump's star rating system would be better (ie. 5 star means they're either staples in a tier 1 deck or used in multiple tier one decks, etc). Not only would that reduce confusion, it would also make it harder to argue that card x beings in tier y, since tiers would be pretty cut and dry.
I also think this list should only address the current meta, instead of evaluating the power in general. Awoken the makers is good in theory, but is basically unplayable right now, so it should be low tier. By mixing the mindsets of "these are dominating the meta" and "these could be great in a certain meta", you're just adding confusion
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
I'll check a tier list to find out if people think the card i want to craft will give me value over time, not only during the next month.
Having 12K dust and still not crafted Lyra makes me think you don't play priest.
So no real point in crafting her right now either.
Creating those zombeasts is fun, but to often you won't get there or the options you get are terrible and you still lose.
I'm never playing her tbh.
If I buy Naxxaramas only for dust value, wich epics and legendaries should I consider DE?