After a few weeks of cooling down from grinding hearthstone, I decide to queue up a few matches in ladder. To my surprise (sarcasm), two out of my four games were against the same variant of mage, running turd block, which is quickly making me more sick of hearthstone than ever. Ice block used to be more "fair" ("""""fair""""") back when nearly always guaranteed OTK combos weren't a thing. I know its stuck around for a while, but as you know, the antonidas + four sorcerer's combo is pretty f*cking wack, and overall, feels really stale to lose to.
While I'm aware it could be argued that other cards need a nerf much more than scum block, like total skill-festation, to me it seems that skill block really needs to be HOF'ed.
I just don't understand, If I cant beat beat any mages (on a regular basis) who control my board wholesomely every game, and with a midrange deck I cant bring them down before their combo sets off, then how is this archetype allowed to exist? Am I just supposed to contribute to the fast meta game? (also referred to as "c.a.n.c.e.r.") I obviously couldn't play any control variant because I have a turn 10 death sentence by antonidas OTK mage.
Should I just join the turd, <play-a-three-mana-spell-where-you-don't-have-to-worry-about-dying-because-you-won't> mages?
thonks for reading my rant, it took stronk typingn. oopis Am spilled my cofvefe
Well. You are right. It is time for Ice block to go to wild. It is not because this card is too strong with OTK combos, that become a little more popular after mage's quest. It has to go to wild because we have freeze mage archetype from the beginning of HS and it is time for Mage to evolve and abandon that archetype.
Agreed, but I believe that it is strong. I think that it could see play even if it were, say, 4 mana. In my opinion, its a little to strong to be a secret in it of itself. The fact that secret eater will never be part of the meta (even though its a passive nerf) will never see the daylight that is ice block. Ice block is an uncounterable archetype (the one exception being aggro), but even with agro you can still lose a handful of times because of the strong control aspect of the mage. Its a little to much for me
Well. You are right. It is time for Ice block to go to wild. It is not because this card is too strong with OTK combos, that become a little more popular after mage's quest. It has to go to wild because we have freeze mage archetype from the beginning of HS and it is time for Mage to evolve and abandon that archetype.
they would have to print healing and/or armor for mage first or make flamestrike cost like 5 mana to EVEN consider rotating ice block, the class has like literally no minions and no survival power outside of ice block, and freezing thinhs is not exactly survival power, it's just delaying losing, the fact that it works in a sort of symbiosis with ice block doesn't mean that freeze is a mechani that does something else than delaying losing.
they would have to print healing and/or armor for mage first or make flamestrike cost like 5 mana to EVEN consider rotating ice block, the class has like literally no minions and no survival power outside of ice block, and freezing thinhs is not exactly survival power, it's just delaying losing, the fact that it works in a sort of symbiosis with ice block doesn't mean that freeze is a mechani that does something else than delaying losing.
Exactly. I can understand how a card that creates the archetype will obviously be the staple to its deck, but yes. The problem is that the only nearly viable mage decks right now utilize ice block in some way or form. I disagree with that. Destroying mage as a whole isn't what I was meaning to propose though. So yes, blizz would have to develop mage gameplay. But hey, a lot of classes need development... heh... warrior.. kek ... meme class... kek
Run Eater of Secrets. When you get the mage to the point where you can kill them, play it and win. I don't think people would complain about Ice Block nearly as much if Blizzard printed better cards to deal with secrets. But you should also know how to play around secrets.
Well if I recall, when discussing the nerfs, Brode was asked about ice block and he pretty much said that it would be better to HoF it than nerf. But that they wanted to keep to the newly established rule of only switching cards to HoF during the new standard rotation. So without actually saying it, he basically confirmed it's their plan to do so. We'll just have to wait 6-7 months for it unfortunately
I am a player of about 3 years, I know how to play around secrets fairly well, but how can you play around something inevitable?
Sure i try to smash in the mage's face quickly but it doesn't matter, because they end up controlling me no matter what I do, if I play relentlessly or conservatively, they always get the combo. And I gave eater of secrets a shot a long time ago, never going back to it. The 4 mana 2/4 isn't worth sitting in your hand for 15 turns when you don't even play enough against mage.
Well if I recall, when discussing the nerfs, Brode was asked about ice block and he pretty much said that it would be better to HoF it than nerf. But that they wanted to keep to the newly established rule of only switching cards to HoF during the new standard rotation. So without actually saying it, he basically confirmed it's their plan to do so. We'll just have to wait 6-7 months for it unfortunately
Wow, you are totally right. Ice Block has become a staple in not only OTK mage decks, but all mage decks. Getting an extra turn is extremely powerful, but I don't know if Blizzard is really going to HOF it soon. I doubt that they see problems like this since it took so long for them to nerf druid.
It's hard for me to sympathize with claims that a card should be moved to Hall of Fame, because it sends the message that one doesn't really care about the power level of the card, just whether or not they personally have to deal with it. As long as it's only tormenting other players it's fine.
Anyways, I don't think Ice Block's a problem. Other OTK decks have existed that didn't play Ice Block and still dunked on control decks every time because that's just what happens when you give them time to draw their combo. How can you expect it to work out otherwise? If you find it frustrating that you can die from any amount of health due to the infinite Fireball combo with Antonidas, why don't you suggest doing something about Antonidas, or Sorcerer's Apprentice instead, since these are the cards that actually make that happen?
It's hard for me to sympathize with claims that a card should be moved to Hall of Fame, because it sends the message that one doesn't really care about the power level of the card, just whether or not they personally have to deal with it. As long as it's only tormenting other players it's fine.
Anyways, I don't think Ice Block's a problem. Other OTK decks have existed that didn't play Ice Block and still dunked on control decks every time because that's just what happens when you give them time to draw their combo. How can you expect it to work out otherwise? If you find it frustrating that you can die from any amount of health due to the infinite Fireball combo with Antonidas, why don't you suggest doing something about Antonidas, or Sorcerer's Apprentice instead, since these are the cards that actually make that happen?
I completely understand why control decks don't win against mage combo decks. That is why I pointed it out that they have no chance. And how do you suppose I do something about antonidas or the apprentices, when they are all played on the same turn? Who am I to know what turn my opponent will pull his combo? Even if he finishes his quest, it is not always played on the turn after.
I know as well, that not every deck will fear the ice block, I am just making a blunt argument relative to myself, and the other 70% of people who lose to it.
It's hard for me to sympathize with claims that a card should be moved to Hall of Fame, because it sends the message that one doesn't really care about the power level of the card, just whether or not they personally have to deal with it. As long as it's only tormenting other players it's fine.
Anyways, I don't think Ice Block's a problem. Other OTK decks have existed that didn't play Ice Block and still dunked on control decks every time because that's just what happens when you give them time to draw their combo. How can you expect it to work out otherwise? If you find it frustrating that you can die from any amount of health due to the infinite Fireball combo with Antonidas, why don't you suggest doing something about Antonidas, or Sorcerer's Apprentice instead, since these are the cards that actually make that happen?
And how do you suppose I do something about antonidas or the apprentices, when they are all played on the same turn?
Exodia Mage currently has a 42% overall win rate and has a play frequency less than 3%. There is nothing to fix.
The only decks it is strong against are Jade Druid and Razakus Priest. Considering your frustration, my money is on you playing one of those two decks, in which case I have no sympathy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
However, I think it is gross misconception of how nerfs should work when you more or less say; "I can't beat this deck very often with one or two decks, therefore since my deck is hard countered by decks that use Ice Block then the card should be nerfed."
It's hard for me to sympathize with claims that a card should be moved to Hall of Fame, because it sends the message that one doesn't really care about the power level of the card, just whether or not they personally have to deal with it. As long as it's only tormenting other players it's fine.
Anyways, I don't think Ice Block's a problem. Other OTK decks have existed that didn't play Ice Block and still dunked on control decks every time because that's just what happens when you give them time to draw their combo. How can you expect it to work out otherwise? If you find it frustrating that you can die from any amount of health due to the infinite Fireball combo with Antonidas, why don't you suggest doing something about Antonidas, or Sorcerer's Apprentice instead, since these are the cards that actually make that happen?
I completely understand why control decks don't win against mage combo decks. That is why I pointed it out that they have no chance. And how do you suppose I do something about antonidas or the apprentices, when they are all played on the same turn? Who am I to know what turn my opponent will pull his combo? Even if he finishes his quest, it is not always played on the turn after.
I know as well, that not every deck will fear the ice block, I am just making a blunt argument relative to myself, and the other 70% of people who lose to it.
Dirty Rat, THE anti-combo deck card? If you run LK you can always sometimes use Death Grip as a counter, but that is much less consistent than Dirty Rat due to having to be randomly given the card and depends on the opponent having not drawn all of their minion combo pieces.
In wild you take a book out of the old Reno Lock's book, Brann + Dirty Rat & sometimes MCT.
After a few weeks of cooling down from grinding hearthstone, I decide to queue up a few matches in ladder. To my surprise
(sarcasm), two out of my four games were against the same variant of mage, running turd block, which is quickly making me more sick of hearthstone than ever. Ice block used to be more "fair" ("""""fair""""") back when nearly always guaranteed OTK combos weren't a thing. I know its stuck around for a while, but as you know, the antonidas + four sorcerer's combo is pretty f*cking wack, and overall, feels really stale to lose to.While I'm aware it could be argued that other cards need a nerf much more than scum block, like total skill-festation, to me it seems that skill block really needs to be HOF'ed.
I just don't understand, If I cant beat beat any mages (on a regular basis) who control my board wholesomely every game, and with a midrange deck I cant bring them down before their combo sets off, then how is this archetype allowed to exist? Am I just supposed to contribute to the fast meta game? (also referred to as "c.a.n.c.e.r.") I obviously couldn't play any control variant because I have a turn 10 death sentence by antonidas OTK mage.
Should I just join the turd, <play-a-three-mana-spell-where-you-don't-have-to-worry-about-dying-because-you-won't> mages?
thonks for reading my rant, it took stronk typingn. oopis Am spilled my cofvefe
Well. You are right. It is time for Ice block to go to wild. It is not because this card is too strong with OTK combos, that become a little more popular after mage's quest. It has to go to wild because we have freeze mage archetype from the beginning of HS and it is time for Mage to evolve and abandon that archetype.
Agreed, but I believe that it is strong. I think that it could see play even if it were, say, 4 mana. In my opinion, its a little to strong to be a secret in it of itself. The fact that secret eater will never be part of the meta (even though its a passive nerf) will never see the daylight that is ice block. Ice block is an uncounterable archetype (the one exception being aggro), but even with agro you can still lose a handful of times because of the strong control aspect of the mage. Its a little to much for me
Run Eater of Secrets. When you get the mage to the point where you can kill them, play it and win. I don't think people would complain about Ice Block nearly as much if Blizzard printed better cards to deal with secrets. But you should also know how to play around secrets.
Well if I recall, when discussing the nerfs, Brode was asked about ice block and he pretty much said that it would be better to HoF it than nerf. But that they wanted to keep to the newly established rule of only switching cards to HoF during the new standard rotation. So without actually saying it, he basically confirmed it's their plan to do so. We'll just have to wait 6-7 months for it unfortunately
I am a player of about 3 years, I know how to play around secrets fairly well, but how can you play around something inevitable?
Sure i try to smash in the mage's face quickly but it doesn't matter, because they end up controlling me no matter what I do, if I play relentlessly or conservatively, they always get the combo. And I gave eater of secrets a shot a long time ago, never going back to it. The 4 mana 2/4 isn't worth sitting in your hand for 15 turns when you don't even play enough against mage.
Wow, you are totally right. Ice Block has become a staple in not only OTK mage decks, but all mage decks. Getting an extra turn is extremely powerful, but I don't know if Blizzard is really going to HOF it soon. I doubt that they see problems like this since it took so long for them to nerf druid.
It's hard for me to sympathize with claims that a card should be moved to Hall of Fame, because it sends the message that one doesn't really care about the power level of the card, just whether or not they personally have to deal with it. As long as it's only tormenting other players it's fine.
Anyways, I don't think Ice Block's a problem. Other OTK decks have existed that didn't play Ice Block and still dunked on control decks every time because that's just what happens when you give them time to draw their combo. How can you expect it to work out otherwise? If you find it frustrating that you can die from any amount of health due to the infinite Fireball combo with Antonidas, why don't you suggest doing something about Antonidas, or Sorcerer's Apprentice instead, since these are the cards that actually make that happen?
I love your image from the bottom, lmao
So Mages can't be a huge problem for you if you don't feel like its worth it to play something that counters the card that you want gone.
Exodia Mage currently has a 42% overall win rate and has a play frequency less than 3%. There is nothing to fix.
The only decks it is strong against are Jade Druid and Razakus Priest. Considering your frustration, my money is on you playing one of those two decks, in which case I have no sympathy.
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
Hooray, another class will only be able to run subpar tempo builds.
And then the meta with all those viable tempo builds will be even simpler.
I love the ice-block whiners. More curvestone plz.
I wouldn't be surprised to see it HoF'ed.
However, I think it is gross misconception of how nerfs should work when you more or less say; "I can't beat this deck very often with one or two decks, therefore since my deck is hard countered by decks that use Ice Block then the card should be nerfed."