Oh boy the worst nerf of the bunch. Have you ever heard someone say that innervate was broken before jade was introduced?
Nobody complained about Warsong Commander until Grim Patron was introduced too, and yet that had to be nerfed for obvious reasons. It's almost as if as they add cards, unforeseen interactions come into play and require something to be retuned...
"Terrorist: Dude killing people is fun. Stop crying and defend yourself." That's your LOGIC.
I just said that he and the terrorist are using the same flawed logic. I used that example specifically because it's easier to figure out the flaw.
Your whole base concept is wrong. He talks about fun because, you know, he's playing a video game where the goal should be to have fun. The analogy is not accurate in the least, and has no common base.
In a singleplayer game you want the player to have fun.
In a multiplayer game you want everyone to have fun. I'm analyzing the new changes from a neutral perspective, he is not.
Real life is "multiplayer, therefore if someone is having fun by hurting other's it's wrong.
This isn't supposed to be hard to understand?
And that has zero relation to the point you made previously. Nice try though, back peddling often works, so I don't blame you for trying.
Me: This is like this because reason 1, reason 2 and reason 3.
look at the picture this guy has, he is a paedophile or a catholic priest and look at his logic, historically tons of ppl have killed and died over competition and he thinks it's farfetched to compare competition to disruptive murder
My picture is from StarCraft 2, another blizzard game and the character shown in it is called the Dark Voice.
And can we please move on from the terrorist argument. I'm tired of people that say my logic is wrong and then call me a pedophile because my profile picture is a fucking xel'naga.
Innervate is a strange card that gives you a short term boost in mana, and makes drawing it in the late game unreasonably powerful with cards like Gadgetzan Auctioneer and Ultimate Infestation*. Druid's thing is investing in ramp early for future gains - it's making a trade-off, and the fact that Innervate allowed you to skip over the drawback of that trade is problematic and runs counter to what Druid is really about.
Hex costing four mana makes a lot of sense. Polymorph costs four mana, and is basically the same effect. Yes, you can argue that Mage can easily pair Polymorph with Fireblast to clear a minion entirely, but you're lying to yourself if you think dealing one damage is a hardship for Shaman with cards like Maelstrom Portal. (For that same reason, the fact that the frog has taunt is largely unimportant.)
Spreading Plague being costed at 6 won't mean a major change for it, but it will make it slightly harder to pair with cards like Doomsayer for board clears, as well as various buffs in Druid. It gets to remain a potent way to address a key weakness for Druid (i.e. dealing with large boards), but now you probably have to think a bit more about how many you want in your deck.
Fiery War Axe is the one card I'm a bit on the fence about. On the one hand, I think a 3/2 weapon for two mana is super busted. On the other hand, weapons are a big part of warrior identity, and now Fiery War Axe is worse than Eaglehorn Bow, King's Defender, Powermace, Rallying Blade, and Shadowblade. Sure, most of those are not in the standard set, and have or will rotate out, but Eaglehorn Bow isn't, and it seems odd thematically that Hunter has a better weapon than Warrior.
*Note that for UI I mean playing it after drawing it from UI, giving you 12 mana to work with in a turn and always avoiding overdraw.
Innervate is druid's identity card. It is the reason peoples in the past play druid. Now the card is worst than counterfeit coin..
How is it worse than Counterfeit Coin? It's still in standard, and Counterfeit Coin rotates out next year. Druid, generally speaking, has always been about playing big stuff early. With cards like Wild Growth, that meant investing earlier in the game for future benefits. Innervate has always been a card which bucked that design, and it's probably good to make it weaker to maintain that trade-off - it makes playing ramp a harder decision and makes for a more interesting and strategic play style for Druid.
I stopped reading there because there's no way I can keep up with a statistics mastermind of this caliber. Btw allow me to thank you for mentioning the sources and complete results of your extensive survey.
I guessed it was obvious but here it is:
I suppose that everyone either plays hearthstone to have fun or to earn money (either through tournaments or streaming). Notice that most of the people that play to earn money also have fun. If there's a third group that's playing this game and doesn't have fun I don't know what the fuck they're doing. Still I'm soooo sorry that I used 99% as an estimate without giving you a link to my scientific article or something. If you really want to I can change it to "most of the people that play this game play it for fun."
A card's power level is also defined by what classes can play them. Counterfeit coin is fine in rogue because of miracle but druid's new innervate doesn't go as well with the rest of the druid set.
They also had to nerf the UI too but it's Blizzard after all...
I understand why a lot of people feel that way, but I'm not sure that's true. HSReplay says that its played winrate is actually on par with most 10 cost cards. The problem isn't that it's too powerful for a 10 drop card, it's that being able to play it in the mid game is too powerful. Nerfing Innervate is a nice, single card change that addresses that as well as addressing aggro druid's turn one Vicious Fledgling.
Complains about the game not having frequent balance changes. Then you complain when it gets some minor balance changes.
Innervate sucks in Astral Communion decks anyway. Unless you draw both your innervate, and astral communion by turn 2, it's a dead draw.
So if they make the wrong changes I should be happy because at least they changed something? Also Innervate is actually great in astral communion druid, just check this deck's guide.
It just makes no sense how basically every pro player is in agreement that priest is the second strongest class after Druid and really close to being broken, yet Blizzard didn't change anything. People's problem with Jade Druid is it was just too powerful, I think priest is much worse because being killed entirely from cards out of hand in 1 or 2 turns just feels really bad no matter who you are. Or auto losing because they got lucky enough to draw Barnes on turn 4. I really don't want to play against these decks much after the balance changes. I just hope to God Blizzard thought this through and recognized that Druid was suppressing some decks that are good against priest or something. That could be the case and man I really hope it is honestly...
Current solution: Play aggro pirate or murloc and hope to get the win before they can ramp.
Post "nerf": There isn't one. The marginal contenders to Jade's power have been nerfed. Game. Set. Match.
And a word of caution to those espousing how we're just being salty... Jade isn't even an expensive deck to make. You want nothing but Malfurion vs. Malfurion? With the exact same deck give or take a card or two?? Sounds boring as Hell.
Tho hex is debatable for the nerf, their logic was completely flawed. They are so concerned over the fact that shaman has cards that are auto include in all shaman archetypes that they felt hex could be run in aggro decks. It was not run that often in aggro. but maelstorm portal should've been nerfed then. By their logic maelstorm portal is a broken card not hex. Spreading plague should've been 7 mana, as it ruins Druids identity of being unable to had large boards. Then they decided not nerf ultimate infestation which was a huge mistake. Innervate could've been nerfed much more effectively but blizzard wants to nerf the basic/classic set because they want people to buy more packs. Innervate could've been nerfed in a way like refresh 2 mana crystals instead of turning it to coin. Hearthstone is just going downhill from here boys
Current solution: Play aggro pirate or murloc and hope to get the win before they can ramp.
Post "nerf": There isn't one. The marginal contenders to Jade's power have been nerfed. Game. Set. Match.
And a word of caution to those espousing how we're just being salty... Jade isn't even an expensive deck to make. You want nothing but Malfurion vs. Malfurion? With the exact same deck give or take a card or two?? Sounds boring as Hell.
I agree, I actually think the nerf to innervate makes Jade Druid stronger. Innervate was a great card, but it ate up 2 card slots in the deck for no board presence. Jade Druid will still have ramp, loads of ramp. But now those slots will allow minions and tech cards. Blizzard pointed to the coin as a viable use for it, but fewer and fewer Jade Druids were using auctioneer after UI was released. 5 card draw was better than auctioneer and they didnt have to have mil cards, plus it gave a minion, did damage, and gave armor. With those two card slots the decks will be varied and harder to plan against. If there are extra bodies, slower decks will have issues because of more damage. Fast decks got nerfed and an extra mana on spreading pluage will do nothing with the ramp druids have. Agro druid is in trouble because no more viscous fledgling on turn one or extra mana to buff minions. Pirate warrior is really in bad shape because the fiery win axe curve is messed up.
I have been trying to digest what everyone's been saying here and elsewhere. Without discussing it card by card but just taken as a whole, basically The Meta is going to get worse. Is this the general consensus?
Please see above thread, he defended the nerfs. I will further explain why the new changes were a great idea.
1. Innervate was broken from day 1 and remained broken till it got nerfed to coin. Being able to cheat a big minion turn 1 or turn 2 usually won you games. It also restricted design space as Blizzard said. Minions like flappy bird are balanced on turn 3, but autowon you games when innervated turn 1. Same problem for hydra, how do you deal with a turn 1 or 3 8/8? Astral druid is also broken OP. There's no way to deal with big threats starting from turn 3 and even from turn 5, it's a win most of the time vs. slower decks.
2. Many people were calling for that weapon to get nerfed, including me. I thought it should cost 3 mana and finally it happened. As Blizzard said, hunters happily run eaglehorn for 3 mana even without secrets. Winaxe is still good at 3 mana, but this will tone down the power of aggro warriors so they don't just win turn 4 or 5. This is huge in wild where you need to survive to turn 6 for reno.
3. Polymorph cost 4, no reason hex should not also cost 4. I called for it's nerf for a long time and it's happened at last.
4. Murlocs are broken OP and you just lose turn 4, your board clears are useless too. With that nerf, you actually have a chance to win now.
5. I called that nerf as well. Plague is balanced at 6 mana, but they still need to nerf UI next balance patch. If you main druid, it's still the strongest class.
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I dunno, I think the changes largely make sense.
Innervate is a strange card that gives you a short term boost in mana, and makes drawing it in the late game unreasonably powerful with cards like Gadgetzan Auctioneer and Ultimate Infestation*. Druid's thing is investing in ramp early for future gains - it's making a trade-off, and the fact that Innervate allowed you to skip over the drawback of that trade is problematic and runs counter to what Druid is really about.
Hex costing four mana makes a lot of sense. Polymorph costs four mana, and is basically the same effect. Yes, you can argue that Mage can easily pair Polymorph with Fireblast to clear a minion entirely, but you're lying to yourself if you think dealing one damage is a hardship for Shaman with cards like Maelstrom Portal. (For that same reason, the fact that the frog has taunt is largely unimportant.)
I like the Murloc Warleader change for one reason - his health buff resulted in some pretty ridiculous interactions that render some opponent AOE worthless (e.g. Equality and Wild Pyromancer) and save Finja, the Flying Star from lethal damage simply by pulling it into play. If you want to buff the health of your murlocs, use Coldlight Seer or Gentle Megasaur or handbuffs or Rockpool Hunter (or Everyfin is Awesome in wild).
Spreading Plague being costed at 6 won't mean a major change for it, but it will make it slightly harder to pair with cards like Doomsayer for board clears, as well as various buffs in Druid. It gets to remain a potent way to address a key weakness for Druid (i.e. dealing with large boards), but now you probably have to think a bit more about how many you want in your deck.
Fiery War Axe is the one card I'm a bit on the fence about. On the one hand, I think a 3/2 weapon for two mana is super busted. On the other hand, weapons are a big part of warrior identity, and now Fiery War Axe is worse than Eaglehorn Bow, King's Defender, Powermace, Rallying Blade, and Shadowblade. Sure, most of those are not in the standard set, and have or will rotate out, but Eaglehorn Bow isn't, and it seems odd thematically that Hunter has a better weapon than Warrior.
*Note that for UI I mean playing it after drawing it from UI, giving you 12 mana to work with in a turn and always avoiding overdraw.
Innervate is druid's identity card. It is the reason peoples in the past play druid. Now the card is worst than counterfeit coin..
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Complains about the game not having frequent balance changes. Then you complain when it gets some minor balance changes.
Innervate sucks in Astral Communion decks anyway. Unless you draw both your innervate, and astral communion by turn 2, it's a dead draw.
I'm on the verge of just quitting for Gwent. CD Projekt Red can make a card game better then Blizzard can.
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It just makes no sense how basically every pro player is in agreement that priest is the second strongest class after Druid and really close to being broken, yet Blizzard didn't change anything. People's problem with Jade Druid is it was just too powerful, I think priest is much worse because being killed entirely from cards out of hand in 1 or 2 turns just feels really bad no matter who you are. Or auto losing because they got lucky enough to draw Barnes on turn 4. I really don't want to play against these decks much after the balance changes. I just hope to God Blizzard thought this through and recognized that Druid was suppressing some decks that are good against priest or something. That could be the case and man I really hope it is honestly...
Doesn't work. And here's why:
The problem: Wild Growth --> Mire Keeper --> Nourish + Jade Blossom into Ultimate Infestation
Current solution: Play aggro pirate or murloc and hope to get the win before they can ramp.
Post "nerf": There isn't one. The marginal contenders to Jade's power have been nerfed. Game. Set. Match.
And a word of caution to those espousing how we're just being salty... Jade isn't even an expensive deck to make. You want nothing but Malfurion vs. Malfurion? With the exact same deck give or take a card or two?? Sounds boring as Hell.
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Aggro gets a nerf.jade druid doesnt gief a f*ck about innervate nerf. 1 card destroys the entire game and they dont even mention it.
Tho hex is debatable for the nerf, their logic was completely flawed. They are so concerned over the fact that shaman has cards that are auto include in all shaman archetypes that they felt hex could be run in aggro decks. It was not run that often in aggro. but maelstorm portal should've been nerfed then. By their logic maelstorm portal is a broken card not hex. Spreading plague should've been 7 mana, as it ruins Druids identity of being unable to had large boards. Then they decided not nerf ultimate infestation which was a huge mistake. Innervate could've been nerfed much more effectively but blizzard wants to nerf the basic/classic set because they want people to buy more packs. Innervate could've been nerfed in a way like refresh 2 mana crystals instead of turning it to coin. Hearthstone is just going downhill from here boys
With those two card slots the decks will be varied and harder to plan against. If there are extra bodies, slower decks will have issues because of more damage. Fast decks got nerfed and an extra mana on spreading pluage will do nothing with the ramp druids have. Agro druid is in trouble because no more viscous fledgling on turn one or extra mana to buff minions. Pirate warrior is really in bad shape because the fiery win axe curve is messed up.
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Dust does not burn a hole in the jar. Be careful what you craft, especially before and right after a rotation.
I have been trying to digest what everyone's been saying here and elsewhere. Without discussing it card by card but just taken as a whole, basically The Meta is going to get worse. Is this the general consensus?
http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/202642-in-defense-of-blizzards-nerf-choices
Please see above thread, he defended the nerfs. I will further explain why the new changes were a great idea.
1. Innervate was broken from day 1 and remained broken till it got nerfed to coin. Being able to cheat a big minion turn 1 or turn 2 usually won you games. It also restricted design space as Blizzard said. Minions like flappy bird are balanced on turn 3, but autowon you games when innervated turn 1. Same problem for hydra, how do you deal with a turn 1 or 3 8/8? Astral druid is also broken OP. There's no way to deal with big threats starting from turn 3 and even from turn 5, it's a win most of the time vs. slower decks.
2. Many people were calling for that weapon to get nerfed, including me. I thought it should cost 3 mana and finally it happened. As Blizzard said, hunters happily run eaglehorn for 3 mana even without secrets. Winaxe is still good at 3 mana, but this will tone down the power of aggro warriors so they don't just win turn 4 or 5. This is huge in wild where you need to survive to turn 6 for reno.
3. Polymorph cost 4, no reason hex should not also cost 4. I called for it's nerf for a long time and it's happened at last.
4. Murlocs are broken OP and you just lose turn 4, your board clears are useless too. With that nerf, you actually have a chance to win now.
5. I called that nerf as well. Plague is balanced at 6 mana, but they still need to nerf UI next balance patch. If you main druid, it's still the strongest class.