So I recently saw the upcoming balance changes and holy shit are they bad. Let me explain.
There is one problem with hearthstone: deck diversity. 99% of people that play this game play it for fun and if there's exactly 1 deck you should be playing to win and everything else loses to it you're not having fun. That deck was jade druid. Not ramp, or token, those are powerful decks sure but they have counters, they don't lower deck diversity.
The jade mechanic is something that looks cool on paper, but it is too disruptive to be healthy for the game. Actually let me be more specific, the jade DRUID mechanic is disruptive, or have you ever heard someone say that jade shaman or jade rogue is OP? If you think what the druid flavor is it's either playing big things earlier, which means a bad early game, very good midgame and good lategame or playing many things and buffing them, which is very good in the early game and worse and worse later on. Because the normal jade rogue and jade shaman fall into the midrange category if jade druid were a midrange deck it'd be cool, new options for druid, not disruptive at all. However...
There is one problem with jade druid: Jade Idol. This card should have never gone past initial design stages. Infinite value in an otherwise midrange deck is not ok. Infinite value is not disruptive on itself (look at dead man's hand or dreadsteed) but the cheap easy scalating way of jade idol is broken as fuck. Jade shouldn't be able to go infinite, it's nice to extend it with elemental discovery or bouncing back jade generators, that actually is a clever and balanced way of taking advantage of the jade mechanic. Having nailed the problem to one card here comes the time to nerf it.
Firstly the general idea of jade idol is very good. You either get tempo now or you get a lot of value later. That's great but it shouldn't be infinite value later so I'll suggest what many others have pointed out before. Make it shuffle a different card into your deck that can only summon the jade golem. If it's still broken reduce the amount of cards shuffled to 2 or up their mana cost.
But what did blizzard do instead? Change its iconic cards in the worst way possible.
INNERVATE
Oh boy the worst nerf of the bunch. Have you ever heard someone say that innervate was broken before jade was introduced? No, in fact it was a fun card to play and to play against. It was druid's identity. I play wild, a lot of wild, and I also play a lot of druid. One of my favourite decks is astral communion druid. Well guess I'm not playing astral communion ever again on turn one, thanks blizzard. When only jade is broken why do you decide to nerf ALL druid decks by HALVING the effect of an iconic card? Just think about it with this example: Oh ragnaros is played a lot so instead of moving it to the hall of fame it's going to be an 8 mana 4/4 that deals 4 damage. Brilliant idea, I guess it's not confusing to new players...
FIERY WAR AXE
Oh I guess warrior doesn't have a weapon now. Just think about it, if you aren't playing pirates and you're not playing enrage what weapon are you going to put in your deck? This one is pretty bad and once again if you REALLY wanted to nerf it, like the problem with warrior wasn't pirates you know, well ok set it's attack to 2. Don't come at me with this "oh but if you only change the mana cost it's the same card." Maybe that's true for a card that I play for its effect but I play it for the tempo. If reno jackson costed 7 it's still essentially the same card but if totem golem costs 3 it sucks ass.
HEX
Why was this card nerfed exactly? Like do they have someone working on "changing iconic cards for no reason" or what? Sure the card is still good I'd say but nerfs have to be necessary and this one wasn't.
MURLOC WARLEADER
Murlocs don't have health.
Murlocs needed cards that made them more durable
If murlocs are too good now, they weren't on the classic set so how about nerfing some of the new murlocs that aren't iconic to the game and nobody really cards if they're changed?
SPREADING PLAGUE
Wow they nerfed a new card whaaaaaaat? That's amazing. How many old decks will I be able to play if they nerf this card? All of them, hey nice see what I mean.
One last thing, I wanted to make pretty clear why I don't like old cards getting changed. The wild format is about 2 things.
1. Playing your old decks and having fun playing with old cards.
2. Finding new wacky synergies between new and old cards.
If you change a new card both points remain undamaged but if you change a BASIC card you obliterate point one. The clearest example of this is defile killing dreadsteed but this is now next level.
That's about it, if there's something you disagree on please feel free to comment and I'll reply as best as I can.
Yeah Gaara also made a video why possible changes might be bad. ( He predicted a more cancerous meta with Priest and QMage being BrokeBack) . But honestly with those aggro nerfs,Jadedruid might be as strong as it was.
Yeah, I wasn't surprised they didn't touch jade cards - but I am surprised they didn't touch UI.. that card is the most broken thing ever.
I'm also genuinely pissed off that they're ONLY changing classic/basic cards - and no not just for dust refund reasons, but because these cards have been in the game since the very beginning.. they have had the opportunity to test interactions before releasing new sets - which they clearly don't fucking do. So, instead of doing the logical thing and altering the newer (nb: broken as all fuck) cards, they decide to nerf, into oblivion, the older cards or cycle them out of standard completely - something I recall them saying they would like to avoid doing back when they introduced standard.
I actually mentioned my point about classic/basic cards in Kibler's stream - he said I was talking bullshit, so I'm going to guess he has some vested interest there too? (this is as an aside; people talk a lot of shit about Kripp, but at least the guy has brains.)
wahhh wahh wahhh that's all I see in that wall of text.
Thanks for your constructive comment. What, can't I disagree with the changes to my favorite game? Can't I think that they're a bad idea? If crying is all you see in my post you might need new glasses.
If you look at the big picture, UI really isn't that broken of a card. If you use it on turn ten, then bam, that's your whole turn. The thing that makes the card so bad is how quickly it can be gotten to with the innervates and coin card if you have it and all the ramp. That's what makes it so bad. In a way, I can see why they didn't nerf it because, it's a big card that should do a lot for an entire turn 10 card.
One last thing, I wanted to make pretty clear why I don't like old cards getting changed. The wild format is about 2 things.
1. Playing your old decks and having fun playing with old cards.
2. Finding new wacky synergies between new and old cards.
If you change a new card both points remain undamaged but if you change a BASIC card you obliterate point one. The clearest example of this is defile killing dreadsteed but this is now next level.
I don't agree with everything you say, but you really hit the nail with this one. I hope they eventually realize it, and stop this nonsense.
Lmao jade druid is a blast to play. The changes are great stop crying about druid and learn to play.
"Terrorist: Dude killing people is fun. Stop crying and defend yourself." That's your logic. In case you're a little shortminded let me explain.
Jade druid is DISRUPTIVE to the game, it may be a fun deck but it kills too many other decks and thus it must be nerfed, specially the infinite druid version.
Public Mod Note
(Fluxflashor):
Not cool. Don't compare people or archetypes to terrorists. Keep it constructive
Now warrior has the worst 3 mana weapon in the game and innervate equals a rogue's coin. They are completely destroying class identities just because some current archetypes are too strong (jade druid and pirate warrior). Let me remind you that these changes are permanent, we are not getting back the old cards even when these OP archetypes rotate out.
Lmao jade druid is a blast to play. The changes are great stop crying about druid and learn to play.
"Terrorist: Dude killing people is fun. Stop crying and defend yourself." That's your logic. In case you're a little shortminded let me explain.
Jade druid is DISRUPTIVE to the game, it may be a fun deck but it kills too many other decks and thus it must be nerfed, specially the infinite druid version.
Did u seriously just compare him to a terrorist? Get a grip dude! Come out of your momma's basement an realize that this is a game...wow
Now warrior has the worst 3 mana weapon in the game and innervate equals a rogue's coin. They are completely destroying class identities just because some current archetypes are too strong (jade druid and pirate warrior). Let me remind you that these changes are permanent, we are not getting back the old cards even when these OP archetypes rotate out.
Worst idea ever, seriously.
This is precisely the point - they are altering CLASSIC (dictionary definition - timeless, always relevant) and basic cards, to mould around cards that are effectively just passing through.
It's actually retarded when you think about it. I can understand with some cards requiring adjustments, especially if they've consistently been problematic over a series of expansions - but that hasn't been the case with some of these cards. I'm saying this as someone who thinks druid is the most boring class ever, by the way, followed by warrior.. I still think it's a silly way to "fix" issues. It shows laziness on behalf of the developers to be honest.
1. Denial - This one goes pretty quickly, people claim the posts or info are fake but is soon known to be fact. 2. Anger - The nerfs are bemoaned as wrong, excessive, inadequate, all at once. 3. Bargaining - This includes insisting that Jade Druid will still be viable even though it is clearly sunk. Other forms include predictions that Priest will dominate, or warrior will join hunter - there is no way to reliably predict the meta (if you find a way, get into stock market instead) 4. Depression - People claim they will quit the game or go play Gwent, or DE all their cards, or whatever. 5. Acceptance - the meta stabilizes, new builds emerge, new cards are printed and the world keeps spinning.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
Lmao jade druid is a blast to play. The changes are great stop crying about druid and learn to play.
"Terrorist: Dude killing people is fun. Stop crying and defend yourself." That's your logic. In case you're a little shortminded let me explain.
Jade druid is DISRUPTIVE to the game, it may be a fun deck but it kills too many other decks and thus it must be nerfed, specially the infinite druid version.
Did u seriously just compare him to a terrorist? Get a grip dude! Come out of your momma's basement an realize that this is a game...wow
I used an example of the logic he used. The terrorist's logic is flawed just as his.
Buuut jade druid kind of is a terrorist since it is opresive to the game just like terrorists are opresive to society. The scope changes but the problem is the same. You throw a little pebble, it follows newton's law of gravity; you throw a rock as big as a mountain, it still follows newton's law of gravity in the same way.
P.S. I hope you don't reply with "OMG did you compare him to a mountain cause he's fat?!?!"
Dunno what's all this fuss about. Jade druid has roughly 58% win-rate across 100,000 games. That is like only 3% higher than most other viable ladder decks, except warlock. Warlock sucks.
All those crying here about Jades not being nerfed generally play auto-pilot or semiauto-pilot decks and get smacked by Spreading Pleague. That's understanable. You just throw your shit on the board for tempo/shit/giggles with no plan the game and get punished for this. Try a more intellegent approach for once.
Now that druid has slower ramp and his 6-mana slot is very occupied, running 2x Spreading Pleague will be a little too slow. That's one less stone in your garden.
Bullshit turn 1 Fandrals will most likely not exist anymore. Same for Flappy Bird. What's the point of turn 1 Flappy Bird going second if it's pretty manageable? There is none.
As for basic set nerfs - be thankful these shitty auto-includes are not moving to the Hall of Fame next year. You would be cryin lots more otherwise.
Lmao jade druid is a blast to play. The changes are great stop crying about druid and learn to play.
"Terrorist: Dude killing people is fun. Stop crying and defend yourself." That's your logic. In case you're a little shortminded let me explain.
Jade druid is DISRUPTIVE to the game, it may be a fun deck but it kills too many other decks and thus it must be nerfed, specially the infinite druid version.
Calling someone short minded after you compared killing people with a video game doesn't make you look very smart dude.
"Terrorist: Dude killing people is fun. Stop crying and defend yourself." That's your LOGIC.
I just said that he and the terrorist are using the same flawed logic. I used that example specifically because it's easier to figure out the flaw.
Your whole base concept is wrong. He talks about fun because, you know, he's playing a video game where the goal should be to have fun. The analogy is not accurate in the least, and has no common base.
In a singleplayer game you want the player to have fun.
In a multiplayer game you want everyone to have fun. I'm analyzing the new changes from a neutral perspective, he is not.
Real life is "multiplayer, therefore if someone is having fun by hurting other's it's wrong.
So I recently saw the upcoming balance changes and holy shit are they bad. Let me explain.
There is one problem with hearthstone: deck diversity. 99% of people that play this game play it for fun and if there's exactly 1 deck you should be playing to win and everything else loses to it you're not having fun. That deck was jade druid. Not ramp, or token, those are powerful decks sure but they have counters, they don't lower deck diversity.
The jade mechanic is something that looks cool on paper, but it is too disruptive to be healthy for the game. Actually let me be more specific, the jade DRUID mechanic is disruptive, or have you ever heard someone say that jade shaman or jade rogue is OP? If you think what the druid flavor is it's either playing big things earlier, which means a bad early game, very good midgame and good lategame or playing many things and buffing them, which is very good in the early game and worse and worse later on. Because the normal jade rogue and jade shaman fall into the midrange category if jade druid were a midrange deck it'd be cool, new options for druid, not disruptive at all. However...
There is one problem with jade druid: Jade Idol. This card should have never gone past initial design stages. Infinite value in an otherwise midrange deck is not ok. Infinite value is not disruptive on itself (look at dead man's hand or dreadsteed) but the cheap easy scalating way of jade idol is broken as fuck. Jade shouldn't be able to go infinite, it's nice to extend it with elemental discovery or bouncing back jade generators, that actually is a clever and balanced way of taking advantage of the jade mechanic. Having nailed the problem to one card here comes the time to nerf it.
Firstly the general idea of jade idol is very good. You either get tempo now or you get a lot of value later. That's great but it shouldn't be infinite value later so I'll suggest what many others have pointed out before. Make it shuffle a different card into your deck that can only summon the jade golem. If it's still broken reduce the amount of cards shuffled to 2 or up their mana cost.
But what did blizzard do instead? Change its iconic cards in the worst way possible.
INNERVATE
Oh boy the worst nerf of the bunch. Have you ever heard someone say that innervate was broken before jade was introduced? No, in fact it was a fun card to play and to play against. It was druid's identity. I play wild, a lot of wild, and I also play a lot of druid. One of my favourite decks is astral communion druid. Well guess I'm not playing astral communion ever again on turn one, thanks blizzard. When only jade is broken why do you decide to nerf ALL druid decks by HALVING the effect of an iconic card? Just think about it with this example: Oh ragnaros is played a lot so instead of moving it to the hall of fame it's going to be an 8 mana 4/4 that deals 4 damage. Brilliant idea, I guess it's not confusing to new players...
FIERY WAR AXE
Oh I guess warrior doesn't have a weapon now. Just think about it, if you aren't playing pirates and you're not playing enrage what weapon are you going to put in your deck? This one is pretty bad and once again if you REALLY wanted to nerf it, like the problem with warrior wasn't pirates you know, well ok set it's attack to 2. Don't come at me with this "oh but if you only change the mana cost it's the same card." Maybe that's true for a card that I play for its effect but I play it for the tempo. If reno jackson costed 7 it's still essentially the same card but if totem golem costs 3 it sucks ass.
HEX
Why was this card nerfed exactly? Like do they have someone working on "changing iconic cards for no reason" or what? Sure the card is still good I'd say but nerfs have to be necessary and this one wasn't.
MURLOC WARLEADER
Murlocs don't have health.
Murlocs needed cards that made them more durable
If murlocs are too good now, they weren't on the classic set so how about nerfing some of the new murlocs that aren't iconic to the game and nobody really cards if they're changed?
SPREADING PLAGUE
Wow they nerfed a new card whaaaaaaat? That's amazing. How many old decks will I be able to play if they nerf this card? All of them, hey nice see what I mean.
One last thing, I wanted to make pretty clear why I don't like old cards getting changed. The wild format is about 2 things.
1. Playing your old decks and having fun playing with old cards.
2. Finding new wacky synergies between new and old cards.
If you change a new card both points remain undamaged but if you change a BASIC card you obliterate point one. The clearest example of this is defile killing dreadsteed but this is now next level.
That's about it, if there's something you disagree on please feel free to comment and I'll reply as best as I can.
Check out my Hearthstone expansion: The Shifting Sands
Yeah Gaara also made a video why possible changes might be bad. ( He predicted a more cancerous meta with Priest and QMage being BrokeBack) . But honestly with those aggro nerfs,Jadedruid might be as strong as it was.
wahhh wahh wahhh that's all I see in that wall of text.
Yeah, I wasn't surprised they didn't touch jade cards - but I am surprised they didn't touch UI.. that card is the most broken thing ever.
I'm also genuinely pissed off that they're ONLY changing classic/basic cards - and no not just for dust refund reasons, but because these cards have been in the game since the very beginning.. they have had the opportunity to test interactions before releasing new sets - which they clearly don't fucking do. So, instead of doing the logical thing and altering the newer (nb: broken as all fuck) cards, they decide to nerf, into oblivion, the older cards or cycle them out of standard completely - something I recall them saying they would like to avoid doing back when they introduced standard.
I actually mentioned my point about classic/basic cards in Kibler's stream - he said I was talking bullshit, so I'm going to guess he has some vested interest there too? (this is as an aside; people talk a lot of shit about Kripp, but at least the guy has brains.)
Check out my Hearthstone expansion: The Shifting Sands
If you look at the big picture, UI really isn't that broken of a card. If you use it on turn ten, then bam, that's your whole turn. The thing that makes the card so bad is how quickly it can be gotten to with the innervates and coin card if you have it and all the ramp. That's what makes it so bad. In a way, I can see why they didn't nerf it because, it's a big card that should do a lot for an entire turn 10 card.
You do not truly know someone, until you fight them.....
Lmao jade druid is a blast to play. The changes are great stop crying about druid and learn to play.
Check out my Hearthstone expansion: The Shifting Sands
I don't care if it's disruptive as long as I have fun. Blizzard seems to agree don't you think?
Now warrior has the worst 3 mana weapon in the game and innervate equals a rogue's coin. They are completely destroying class identities just because some current archetypes are too strong (jade druid and pirate warrior). Let me remind you that these changes are permanent, we are not getting back the old cards even when these OP archetypes rotate out.
Worst idea ever, seriously.
It's actually retarded when you think about it.
I can understand with some cards requiring adjustments, especially if they've consistently been problematic over a series of expansions - but that hasn't been the case with some of these cards. I'm saying this as someone who thinks druid is the most boring class ever, by the way, followed by warrior.. I still think it's a silly way to "fix" issues. It shows laziness on behalf of the developers to be honest.
Stages of Nerf Grief
1. Denial - This one goes pretty quickly, people claim the posts or info are fake but is soon known to be fact.
2. Anger - The nerfs are bemoaned as wrong, excessive, inadequate, all at once.
3. Bargaining - This includes insisting that Jade Druid will still be viable even though it is clearly sunk. Other forms include predictions that Priest will dominate, or warrior will join hunter - there is no way to reliably predict the meta (if you find a way, get into stock market instead)
4. Depression - People claim they will quit the game or go play Gwent, or DE all their cards, or whatever.
5. Acceptance - the meta stabilizes, new builds emerge, new cards are printed and the world keeps spinning.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
Check out my Hearthstone expansion: The Shifting Sands
Innervate was absolutely disgusting, worst offender by a huge margin.
Dunno what's all this fuss about. Jade druid has roughly 58% win-rate across 100,000 games. That is like only 3% higher than most other viable ladder decks, except warlock. Warlock sucks.
All those crying here about Jades not being nerfed generally play auto-pilot or semiauto-pilot decks and get smacked by Spreading Pleague. That's understanable. You just throw your shit on the board for tempo/shit/giggles with no plan the game and get punished for this. Try a more intellegent approach for once.
Now that druid has slower ramp and his 6-mana slot is very occupied, running 2x Spreading Pleague will be a little too slow. That's one less stone in your garden.
Bullshit turn 1 Fandrals will most likely not exist anymore. Same for Flappy Bird. What's the point of turn 1 Flappy Bird going second if it's pretty manageable? There is none.
As for basic set nerfs - be thankful these shitty auto-includes are not moving to the Hall of Fame next year. You would be cryin lots more otherwise.
"Terrorist: Dude killing people is fun. Stop crying and defend yourself." That's your LOGIC.
I just said that he and the terrorist are using the same flawed logic. I used that example specifically because it's easier to figure out the flaw.
Check out my Hearthstone expansion: The Shifting Sands
Check out my Hearthstone expansion: The Shifting Sands