The reason for the original cost was that you're turning an opponent's minion into a 0-attack one with taunt versus Polymorph leaving them with 1 attack and no taunt, thus Shaman is left with a severe disadvantage should this nerf take place.
Cards that you're going to play anyways, and, in the case of the minions, will stick around because it's a free trade. Shaman is built around having a wide board right now, so you're typically going to have something out there to clear it off. Mage actually has to devote two mana on a one time ping to clean up the sheep.
mage has ping, shaman does not, thats why -1 mana was reasonable in this comparison
Which is a hilariously stupid reason to justify a 25% reduction in mana cost for what amounts to the exact same card. Especially considering it's a 50% reduction in mana cost for poly+ping.
3 mana Overload (1), why is that so difficult? Control shaman will jsut be a lot harder to play and aggro usually runs devolve over hex anyways.
Best outcome is that they might end up giving shaman more control support to amke up for this
on another note: how come Flametongue Totem is allowed to stay as it is...or bloodlust. there are so many more broken shaman cards in the base set, going for the defensive ones seems like a mistake
This is a decent nerf. Hex isn't used a ton at the moment, but it is an autoinclude in every midrange or slower Shaman deck. Even after this change it's still a great removal card, about on par with Polymorph which is played in most control Mage decks. Adding Overload would have been more flavorful though, and it would help the currently non-existing Overload Shaman out a bit.
Not a fan of the timing though. They could have waited with this nerf until the next set, or whenever they plan on releasing cards that will make a slower Shaman deck viable. With the nerf to Druid you can certainly expect Priest to rise in popularity, and Hex is an essential card against Priest (particularly Big Priest), so this will really hurt control Shaman short term.
It was always something I wondered, why this cost 3 and Polymorph was 4. I guess now they are on par with each other.
This card was perfectly fine. İt gives minion taunt, so you have to still kill. In polymorph you don't have to kill fucking sheep. Damn i am so salty why did have to make control shaman worse?
This nerf was long over due, although not immediately necessary. It never really made sense that it cost less than Poly (I really don't count being able to ping the sheep off as a bonus.)
It is with Frost Lich Jania as it is silence + removal + a life stealing 3/6 water elemental (for another 2 mana) when your opponent is probably trying their hardest to deny 1 health minions.
It's why poly is run now in those decks.
ok but at that point we likely well beyond turn 9. That's fine.
There are also scenarios where you hex your own minion for taunt, but I intentionally didn't include it because it's situational enough to not justify a mana difference between the two.
I guess I'm saying that the negatives Hex has (including cannot devolve the Taunt Frog even when buffed, and minion must be dealt with cannot be pinged or ignored like a sheep) make it not as good as Polymorph.
The situational Hex your own minion upside is true - and I guess you could have a situation where you don't have the mana to ping off the sheep and your opponent might buff it and kill you (Polymorph downside).
Certainly Hex and Polymorph costs are more or less important depending what turn in the game it is. Card worth early game and late game definitely matter.
But overall Hex for Shaman isn't as good as Polymorph is for Mage (esp DK Mage). And given the meta not a nerf that was needed or anyone seemed to be asking for. If you asked yesterday which 5 cards would be nerfed today no one would have said Hex :) :)
Maybe Hex should cost 3.5 mana :)
I'm not sure how much of a "negative" it really is, though.
IMO, the real issue was: 1) Hex used to cost 25% less than Poly 2) Hex used to cost 50% less than Poly+Ping
The difference in tempo early game is huge. This is particularly true when you consider that Shaman is one of the classes designed to have early control of the board, further increasing the tempo a Hex could give.
Late game, the tempo is hardly relevant as the two cards are effectively doing the same thing. I mean the Jaina DK+Poly+Ping is a 15 mana play. It should be a good swing for 15 mana.
This nerf really annoyed me, Hex wasn't played because it's some super powerful card or anything, it was played because there is literally no other hard removal in the game for shaman. Most of the time when you use hex you're just getting a 1 for 1, often times your opponent wins out from the exchange with most late game cards having an immediate effect, Such as Aya Blackpaw, The Lich King, Grommash, Ragnaros, Lightlord, Primordial Drake, Bonemare, and Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound. Rather than nerfing the preexisting hard removal, blizzard should be making more hard removal, i especially would like to see hard removal with value attached to it, such as Meteor, plus it's fun to see Kripp whine how cards like meteor are such a problem because it ruin his curvestone arena experience.
This nerf was long over due, although not immediately necessary. It never really made sense that it cost less than Poly (I really don't count being able to ping the sheep off as a bonus.)
It is with Frost Lich Jania as it is silence + removal + a life stealing 3/6 water elemental (for another 2 mana) when your opponent is probably trying their hardest to deny 1 health minions.
It's why poly is run now in those decks.
ok but at that point we likely well beyond turn 9. That's fine.
There are also scenarios where you hex your own minion for taunt, but I intentionally didn't include it because it's situational enough to not justify a mana difference between the two.
I guess I'm saying that the negatives Hex has (including cannot devolve the Taunt Frog even when buffed, and minion must be dealt with cannot be pinged or ignored like a sheep) make it not as good as Polymorph.
The situational Hex your own minion upside is true - and I guess you could have a situation where you don't have the mana to ping off the sheep and your opponent might buff it and kill you (Polymorph downside).
Certainly Hex and Polymorph costs are more or less important depending what turn in the game it is. Card worth early game and late game definitely matter.
But overall Hex for Shaman isn't as good as Polymorph is for Mage (esp DK Mage). And given the meta not a nerf that was needed or anyone seemed to be asking for. If you asked yesterday which 5 cards would be nerfed today no one would have said Hex :) :)
Maybe Hex should cost 3.5 mana :)
I'm not sure how much of a "negative" it really is, though.
IMO, the real issue was: 1) Hex used to cost 25% less than Poly 2) Hex used to cost 50% less than Poly+Ping
The difference in tempo early game is huge. This is particularly true when you consider that Shaman is one of the classes designed to have early control of the board, further increasing the tempo a Hex could give.
Late game, the tempo is hardly relevant as the two cards are effectively doing the same thing. I mean the Jaina DK+Poly+Ping is a 15 mana play. It should be a good swing for 15 mana.
I think it doesn't help to look at % of mana cost difference - after all a 2 mana card costs 100% more than a 1, or even a 1 mana card costs infinite % more than a 0 cost.
I'm not suggesting a 15 mana swing turn for DK Mage :) Simply Polymorph is good in the mid turns for just removal, but in late game has an added sometimes game winning benefit (cards that are good in different ways in different parts of the game are often better in your deck than those that have a static benefit throughout).
Shaman has poor aoe or removal for anything over 5 health, and next to no hard removal. I think we both agree that's part of what a Shaman is supposed to do - control your opponents minions primarily via it's own. Mage has lots of options to nuke things - but hey, it's a different class intended to do things in a different way so that's fair enough.
I still maintain Polymorph is better for Mage than Hex is for Shaman, and this nerf wasn't needed in this meta (though perhaps in the past and in the future).
The opinions expressed in this thread seem to be in 2 main camps - change is fair, change is not needed. Unlike other threads on this forum, I don't think the distance between those 2 points of view is very large for most people :) If you play Shaman + Hex you still probably will, and if you don't you won't :)
I definitely don't understand why this nerf was necessary. Is mid/control shaman running rampant over the other classes? Blizzard's justification for the nerf was that although the power level of the card was fine it didn't fit the IDENTITY of shaman? What does that mean and why is that viable reason for nerfing a card. This is the first time I have heard that as a reason for a nerf to a card. You nerf if it is OP and causing a problem or limiting design space of future cards. I don't see either of those things as being a problem with hex. Given that a nerf card has never been reverted in the history of HS, I don't have enough confidence in HS balance team to feel comfortable with them preemptively nerfing a card that is not currently a problem. It makes no sense.
For those who think it is a good change because it puts it at the same level as polymorph, you should compare the card in the context of it's own class and not other classes. If you start comparing spells from class to class, you run into problems. Frostbolt is run in nearly every mage deck that has ever existed. Frostshock has never seen play in competitive play except for "fun" OTK malygos decks. So should we nerf frostbolt so it's at the same level as frost shock? Lava Burst is a 5 mana (3 upfront + 2 overload) deal 5 damage and fireball is 4 mana deal 6 damage. It's hard to compare because of the overload but one is clearly better than other. Should we nerf fireball so that it's on par with lava burst? This is why the argument that hex should be at the same level as polymorph is silly. Not to mention in nearly every situation, leaving behind taunt behind is worse than leaving a 1/1. The only exception is in very rare cases you want to hex your own minion for the taunt.
Cards that you're going to play anyways, and, in the case of the minions, will stick around because it's a free trade. Shaman is built around having a wide board right now, so you're typically going to have something out there to clear it off. Mage actually has to devote two mana on a one time ping to clean up the sheep.
Anyway. Thats not an overplayed / Overpowered card. At this point of the meta this seems really unnecessary.
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The reason for the original cost was that you're turning an opponent's minion into a 0-attack one with taunt versus Polymorph leaving them with 1 attack and no taunt, thus Shaman is left with a severe disadvantage should this nerf take place.
Why on earth would they nerf a card that nobody complained about and it's not even played ?
What does this nerf accomplish ?
Easily my least favorite nerf in this series of nerfs.
Totally unnecessary.
uncalled for.
3 mana Overload (1), why is that so difficult? Control shaman will jsut be a lot harder to play and aggro usually runs devolve over hex anyways.
Best outcome is that they might end up giving shaman more control support to amke up for this
on another note: how come Flametongue Totem is allowed to stay as it is...or bloodlust. there are so many more broken shaman cards in the base set, going for the defensive ones seems like a mistake
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
I never understood why this card was 3 mana while Polymorph is 4 mana. It seems like they should have done this a long time ago.
Justicar Trueheart in Rogue?
This is a decent nerf. Hex isn't used a ton at the moment, but it is an autoinclude in every midrange or slower Shaman deck. Even after this change it's still a great removal card, about on par with Polymorph which is played in most control Mage decks. Adding Overload would have been more flavorful though, and it would help the currently non-existing Overload Shaman out a bit.
Not a fan of the timing though. They could have waited with this nerf until the next set, or whenever they plan on releasing cards that will make a slower Shaman deck viable. With the nerf to Druid you can certainly expect Priest to rise in popularity, and Hex is an essential card against Priest (particularly Big Priest), so this will really hurt control Shaman short term.
The card is now at rough parity with Polymorph.
Between this card and Devolve, Shamans still have a decent amount of options for transforming enemy minions, so it may still see play.
Fair
1) Hex used to cost 25% less than Poly
2) Hex used to cost 50% less than Poly+Ping
The difference in tempo early game is huge. This is particularly true when you consider that Shaman is one of the classes designed to have early control of the board, further increasing the tempo a Hex could give.
Excellent change, puts it in line with Polymorph. The card is still very powerful but now won't be in all shaman decks ever (even the aggro ones).
hmmm fine it's fine I guess though I don't see why they target shaman since the class is fair now.
still a decent card wasn't auto include anyway.
The frog should be at 2 mana now.
This nerf really annoyed me, Hex wasn't played because it's some super powerful card or anything, it was played because there is literally no other hard removal in the game for shaman. Most of the time when you use hex you're just getting a 1 for 1, often times your opponent wins out from the exchange with most late game cards having an immediate effect, Such as Aya Blackpaw, The Lich King, Grommash, Ragnaros, Lightlord, Primordial Drake, Bonemare, and Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound. Rather than nerfing the preexisting hard removal, blizzard should be making more hard removal, i especially would like to see hard removal with value attached to it, such as Meteor, plus it's fun to see Kripp whine how cards like meteor are such a problem because it ruin his curvestone arena experience.
.
I definitely don't understand why this nerf was necessary. Is mid/control shaman running rampant over the other classes? Blizzard's justification for the nerf was that although the power level of the card was fine it didn't fit the IDENTITY of shaman? What does that mean and why is that viable reason for nerfing a card. This is the first time I have heard that as a reason for a nerf to a card. You nerf if it is OP and causing a problem or limiting design space of future cards. I don't see either of those things as being a problem with hex. Given that a nerf card has never been reverted in the history of HS, I don't have enough confidence in HS balance team to feel comfortable with them preemptively nerfing a card that is not currently a problem. It makes no sense.
For those who think it is a good change because it puts it at the same level as polymorph, you should compare the card in the context of it's own class and not other classes. If you start comparing spells from class to class, you run into problems. Frostbolt is run in nearly every mage deck that has ever existed. Frostshock has never seen play in competitive play except for "fun" OTK malygos decks. So should we nerf frostbolt so it's at the same level as frost shock? Lava Burst is a 5 mana (3 upfront + 2 overload) deal 5 damage and fireball is 4 mana deal 6 damage. It's hard to compare because of the overload but one is clearly better than other. Should we nerf fireball so that it's on par with lava burst? This is why the argument that hex should be at the same level as polymorph is silly. Not to mention in nearly every situation, leaving behind taunt behind is worse than leaving a 1/1. The only exception is in very rare cases you want to hex your own minion for the taunt.