Ok Blizzard nerfed leeroy, but does it actually means a lot?
Let us look at what they did.
miracle rogue: before: leeroy 4 mana cold blood 1 mana, 10 damege 5 mana, shadowstep 0 mana, leeroy 2 mana 6 damage shadowstep 0 mana, leeroy 2 mana 1 cold blood 1 mana 10 damage. over all 26 damage 10 or 8 mana if you use prep to cold blood.
Now: leeroy 5 mana coldblood 1 mana, 10 damage shadowstep 0 mana, leeroy 3 mana, coldblood 1 mana, 10 damage. we have 20 damage here. for 10 mana that is a lot, and you need one less shadow step, that means you can start the combo before you wanted to before. You only need to find 4 cards instead of 5 cards before. and if you add preb and eviscerate into the mix, you can still make a good 28 damage. It is still 6 less than before. but it is still a game changing card.
My point is, that the change they did to leeroy, have been to little, to make it a bad card. yes they took away 6 damage from a miracle rogue, but they did not remove the possibility of a deathball.
On other chars, this changes have a little effect.
Let me know what you others think of my logic, and plz. correct me if there is something wrong in my way of thinking i am open for a debate.
PS. sorry for my horrible English, i hope it is readable.
Edit: i think i have to point out, since some miss my point. The change to leeroy have not stopped the possibility of a deathball, because it is not the leeroy there is the problem. If you ask me the problem is coldblood. It need its cost set up. 4 damage for 1 mana is a lot.
there is no point in miracle running leeroy now because of other combos. 2x cold blood double shadow step arcane golem is 20 dmg for 9 mana, and south sea deckhand double cold blood faceless is 20 dmg for 8 mana, same amount of cards as old combo except if done t10 can fit in sap
You want 2 south sea faceless coldblood? that is only 18 damage. 2/1 plus 4 that is 6 times 2 that is 12 plus one faceless that is 18. you would need to add shadowstep into the mix to get to 20 damage. and then you could do more than just 20 damage. 22 if i calculate right. OFC if you choose to play 2 SD. so it is 2 SD 4 D 4 mana SS Both, 2 SD board 0 mana, CB both 12 D faceless 5 Mana 6D. 4 plus 12= 16 plus 6 = 22 and that one is 9 mana.
Arcane golem combo cost 8 accordion to my calculation.
But yes that could be done, but that was not my point was it? I pointed out that it is not the leeroy there is the problem here, and you just backed up my point.
your point was that they didn't do enough to Leeroy, and my point is that they've already made it so there is no reason to play him over other options now. Leeroy has never been what gave miracle its power. its their ability to draw their deck in a few turns.
If there's a problem it's probably how charge, which you'd expect to mean one earlier attack, can be bounced to mean 'as many attacks as you can fit into X mana'. If you want to attack with a creature multiple times, it ought to have windfury. *shrug*
I dont think that nerfing a card , has the main reason to make it a bad one. Further, its also not Blizz intention to remove a deathball system out of HS, because it would make the game very,very boring.
The change to leeroy is just fine for players to come up with some new ideas and what the TC mentioned about cold blood, its just a fine card. Compare it with blessing of might!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
only those with Straw in their heads fear the Spark of Truth
Dinavergs point is an interesting one I reckon. Double shadowstep on a minion with charge is overpowered.
My main problem with Miracle Rogue, is that it is sooooo boring to play against. Give me huntards and zoo, atleast there you get to play the game. Even freezemages are more fun to play than Miracle Rogues.
And to the OP: I think its the Gadgetzan auctioneer that's actually the problem here mate. Not cold blood. Nerf the auctioneer and all is well. A handlock doesn't even need Leeroy Jenkins, and the card is nerfed just fine right now.
The only thing changed by the nerf is that Leeroy is no longer viable for certain OTK combos ala Miracle Rogue's double shadowstep. Other than that Leeroy is purely used as a finisher, so in reality you will have plenty of mana to spend by the time you want to use him anyway.
My point is, that the change they did to leeroy, have been to little, to make it a bad card.
Well, I certainly hope it wasn't their goal to make it a bad card!
This is how nerfs should be done if they are going to be done. Smallest possible change. Add 1 to mana cost, or reduce attack or health by 1. Then monitor it.
When playing board control as Shaman and whittling away a little damage in the early turns, ending the game with Leeroy + Rockbiter + Windfury for 18 burst now costs 8 mana instead of 7, so that means one less shiny thing underneath the "Winner" graphic. Deeply saddened by this, I am.
(No more Leeroy + Rockbiter + Rockbiter + Windfury + Reincarnate without the Coin, but if you can somehow draw all of that you "earned" the win anyway lol)
Ok Blizzard nerfed leeroy, but does it actually means a lot?
Let us look at what they did.
miracle rogue: before: leeroy 4 mana cold blood 1 mana, 10 damege 5 mana, shadowstep 0 mana, leeroy 2 mana 6 damage shadowstep 0 mana, leeroy 2 mana 1 cold blood 1 mana 10 damage. over all 26 damage 10 or 8 mana if you use prep to cold blood.
Now: leeroy 5 mana coldblood 1 mana, 10 damage shadowstep 0 mana, leeroy 3 mana, coldblood 1 mana, 10 damage. we have 20 damage here. for 10 mana that is a lot, and you need one less shadow step, that means you can start the combo before you wanted to before. You only need to find 4 cards instead of 5 cards before. and if you add preb and eviscerate into the mix, you can still make a good 28 damage. It is still 6 less than before. but it is still a game changing card.
My point is, that the change they did to leeroy, have been to little, to make it a bad card. yes they took away 6 damage from a miracle rogue, but they did not remove the possibility of a deathball.
On other chars, this changes have a little effect.
Let me know what you others think of my logic, and plz. correct me if there is something wrong in my way of thinking i am open for a debate.
PS. sorry for my horrible English, i hope it is readable.
Edit: i think i have to point out, since some miss my point. The change to leeroy have not stopped the possibility of a deathball, because it is not the leeroy there is the problem. If you ask me the problem is coldblood. It need its cost set up. 4 damage for 1 mana is a lot.
there is no point in miracle running leeroy now because of other combos. 2x cold blood double shadow step arcane golem is 20 dmg for 9 mana, and south sea deckhand double cold blood faceless is 20 dmg for 8 mana, same amount of cards as old combo except if done t10 can fit in sap
it nerfed handlock+miracle a lil, that's all
even if you run an aggro deck...1 mana on leeroy doesn't make much difference
You want 2 south sea faceless coldblood? that is only 18 damage. 2/1 plus 4 that is 6 times 2 that is 12 plus one faceless that is 18. you would need to add shadowstep into the mix to get to 20 damage. and then you could do more than just 20 damage. 22 if i calculate right. OFC if you choose to play 2 SD. so it is 2 SD 4 D 4 mana SS Both, 2 SD board 0 mana, CB both 12 D faceless 5 Mana 6D. 4 plus 12= 16 plus 6 = 22 and that one is 9 mana.
Arcane golem combo cost 8 accordion to my calculation.
But yes that could be done, but that was not my point was it? I pointed out that it is not the leeroy there is the problem here, and you just backed up my point.
no, south sea deckhand double cold blood faceless is 20 dmg for 8 mana.
southsea (2 attack), cold blood x2 (+8 attack), faceless = 20 dmg
1 mana + 1 mana + 1 mana + 5 mana = 8 mana
not including weapon damage
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your point was that they didn't do enough to Leeroy, and my point is that they've already made it so there is no reason to play him over other options now. Leeroy has never been what gave miracle its power. its their ability to draw their deck in a few turns.
Ohh so that is the way you want to do it, just so we are clear about what to do.
And How dare you say what my point is, do you think you know what i meant with this thread?
My point was that leeroy was not the problem in the deathball of miracle. and that the changes did not rule out the possibility for at deathball.
"My point is, that the change they did to leeroy, have been to little, to make it a bad card"
i didn't say your point, you did
If there's a problem it's probably how charge, which you'd expect to mean one earlier attack, can be bounced to mean 'as many attacks as you can fit into X mana'. If you want to attack with a creature multiple times, it ought to have windfury. *shrug*
And you misunderstood that, and that is why i made an edit update.
cold blood is only a slightly better blessing of might that has to be comboed to have full value
I dont think that nerfing a card , has the main reason to make it a bad one. Further, its also not Blizz intention to remove a deathball system out of HS, because it would make the game very,very boring.
The change to leeroy is just fine for players to come up with some new ideas and what the TC mentioned about cold blood, its just a fine card. Compare it with blessing of might!
only those with Straw in their heads fear the Spark of Truth
Dinavergs point is an interesting one I reckon. Double shadowstep on a minion with charge is overpowered.
My main problem with Miracle Rogue, is that it is sooooo boring to play against. Give me huntards and zoo, atleast there you get to play the game. Even freezemages are more fun to play than Miracle Rogues.
And to the OP: I think its the Gadgetzan auctioneer that's actually the problem here mate. Not cold blood. Nerf the auctioneer and all is well. A handlock doesn't even need Leeroy Jenkins, and the card is nerfed just fine right now.
can do 20 dmg 8 mana 4 cards, and assuming you've cycled with gadget it's likely you'll have it
I mainly use it as a finisher, so I have more than 4 or 5 mana when I use it anyway. Does not affect me that much.
The only thing changed by the nerf is that Leeroy is no longer viable for certain OTK combos ala Miracle Rogue's double shadowstep. Other than that Leeroy is purely used as a finisher, so in reality you will have plenty of mana to spend by the time you want to use him anyway.
It means 1600/3200 Dust for those that have him, pretty plain/simple :)
Hurts hunters a tad (3 dmg) as cant cast Unleash, Leeroy and Kill Command in a single round without coin.
Well, I certainly hope it wasn't their goal to make it a bad card!
This is how nerfs should be done if they are going to be done. Smallest possible change. Add 1 to mana cost, or reduce attack or health by 1. Then monitor it.
When playing board control as Shaman and whittling away a little damage in the early turns, ending the game with Leeroy + Rockbiter + Windfury for 18 burst now costs 8 mana instead of 7, so that means one less shiny thing underneath the "Winner" graphic. Deeply saddened by this, I am.
(No more Leeroy + Rockbiter + Rockbiter + Windfury + Reincarnate without the Coin, but if you can somehow draw all of that you "earned" the win anyway lol)
Moved to card discussion.