Hearthpwn

Quote from gralqo >>

Quote from rapula666 >>

I feel like Im on crazy pills, its not innervate moron. Its a combination of op cards and mechanics. the Jade Mechanic which can suffocate other control. That paired with infestation which allows super ramp from mire keeper, wild growth and Jade blossom. Then you just fill your hand and go. 

There is a reason that people were not calling for innervate to go away before KFT. But now druid is op with the new cards and people blame innervate. While its really all the ramp + infestation + aggro killer spreading plague. 

 Well , I understand exactly what you mean but considering only the speculated outcome of this:

Innervate will be most likely nerfed. Because it's a free non refundable card they'd destroy. Force you and all new players to buy more cards now and in the future.

Also Wild Growth and Swipe are in danger

Just a quick look inside my thought process behind this math

1 card draw= 2 mana (life tap, engineer and loot hoarder are all 2).                             

1 damage= 0.6 mana ( fireball=4/6=0.6 frostbolt=2/3=0.6)

1 armour= 0.2 mana (iron hide=1/5=0.2)

and of course 1attack and 1 health= 1 mana

all of this together means that ultimate infestation is a total of  2+0.6+0.2+1x5 which brings us to a grand total value of 19 mana for the cost of 10 mana which is utterly ridiculous that's the equivalent of paying 10 mana for a 19/19 the card draw alone is worth 10 mana without all the other stuff tacked on to it the whole idea of druid is you sacrifice your card advantage to be able to summon huge minions before your opponent has a chance to build a significant board presence and this card completely defines an entire meta of jade druids by allowing you to dump your hand kill something heal yourself and then dump your new hand in a cycle which would normally be: druid dumps hand and runs out of card draw because he ramped to aggressively 

Heh, all the people who make excuses for this card and the state of druid is delusional. Druid is so broken right now that it is outright laughable. 

Druid is holding the entire game hostage, we have 2 classes with more than one competitive deck and 2 classes without a single one... and it is all due to druid. 

Easily the worst meta in HS history, including secret paladin, miracle rogue, patron and undertaker hunter.

What do you guys think about Ultimate Infestation moving past the Jade era?

Without the inevitability of Jades or some new OTK combo does the card become more reasonable.

Quote from Heeljin >>

What do you guys think about Ultimate Infestation moving past the Jade era?

The problem seems to be more Spreading Plague. Even with Ultimate infestation, Druid lost to aggro so hard BUT this little card winning him so much time, also if you dont dealt with the 1/5 he probably will buff them of just cast jade idols when you kill one 1/5, the card is more tempo winning than ultimate infestation in my opinion. Is soooo hard dealt with 4 or more 1/5 on board.

I find it funny: Ancient of Lore was nerfed because it was too strong: a 7 mana 5/5 that draws 2 cards or heal for 5.

Now Druid gets a card that does the same, only far better: 10 mana 5/5 Heals for 5, deal 5 damage and draw 5 cards. Blizzard needs to learn from themself: if a 7 mana minion with an effect that let you decide between 2 card draw or heal 5 is too strong, what makes you think that giving a card with all effects combined, + 5 damage and +3 cards for 3 more mana makes this a fair card?

Split the effects, make this a choose one-card and make the game balanced again:

Ultimate Infestation: 8 mana CHOOSE ONE: Draw 5 cards and gain 5 armor OR Deal 5 damage. Summons a minion with equal stats to it's damage done. This makes it still a pretty awesome card. It's a Firelands Portal mixed with Lay on Hands. More cards and less heal or a Firelands Portal that scales with spelldamage, so with +1 spell damage for example you gain a 6/6 on the field. It's still a 5/5 minion for 5, but if you deal more damage, it gains a buff.

Because the other solution, nerfing innervate would not be adequate, because this would change how druid plays so much simply because of an card that is completely overpowered.

Still: In the end an innervate-nerf might be the best solution even if i personally don't like it.

Quote from brilliant_gnome >>

 

Heh, all the people who make excuses for this card and the state of druid is delusional. Druid is so broken right now that it is outright laughable. 

Druid is holding the entire game hostage, we have 2 classes with more than one competitive deck and 2 classes without a single one... and it is all due to druid. 

Easily the worst meta in HS history, including secret paladin, miracle rogue, patron and undertaker hunter.

 

Quote from TOTAL_EPICNESS >>

Just a quick look inside my thought process behind this math

1 card draw= 2 mana (life tap, engineer and loot hoarder are all 2).                             

1 damage= 0.6 mana ( fireball=4/6=0.6 frostbolt=2/3=0.6)

1 armour= 0.2 mana (iron hide=1/5=0.2)

and of course 1attack and 1 health= 1 mana

all of this together means that ultimate infestation is a total of  2+0.6+0.2+1x5 which brings us to a grand total value of 19 mana for the cost of 10 mana which is utterly ridiculous that's the equivalent of paying 10 mana for a 19/19 the card draw alone is worth 10 mana without all the other stuff tacked on to it the whole idea of druid is you sacrifice your card advantage to be able to summon huge minions before your opponent has a chance to build a significant board presence and this card completely defines an entire meta of jade druids by allowing you to dump your hand kill something heal yourself and then dump your new hand in a cycle which would normally be: druid dumps hand and runs out of card draw because he ramped to aggressively 

Quote from brilliant_gnome >>

 

Easily the worst meta in HS history, including secret paladin, miracle rogue, patron and undertaker hunter.

 

So... I started out Hearthstone playing Druid. Yeah, I said it. I started with Druid and it became and still is my favourite class. Sure, priest could fuck me up by stealing my minions or other classes with hard removal but it was still fun to think of combos. 

Then I found out that Astral Communion was a card. I loved designing the deck around hard ramping and reach the high cost mana turns of dumping huge minions on the board and crossing fingers for no removal.

I never really played the Force of Nature combo, I much preferred to play AC because it meant that matches won would either account to RNG first turn ramp or hard grind. And it has to be said, in those instances neither wild growth turning into draw or innervate were good draws at all after playing Astral Communion, in fact it meant that you were probably going to lose due to a lame turn. I do not understand why they would nerf Ancient of Lore back then when now draw cards like UI surpass AoL by the thousands. Ancient of Lore was a 5/5 with either some draw or a little heal. 

And yet still card draw is not the biggest problem that I think Druid has. Back when Mean Streets of Gadgetzan was released I didn't really like the jade mechanic much already. It basically meant that you just had to put cards in the deck, play them on the board and wow your turns became much better every single time. Much better to the point where Druid picked up auctioneer and I lost all interest in playing decks that require no thought process whatsoever besides how many idols does it take before my opponent cries.

If Jade Idol was not as it is now, and perhaps just buffed golems every 4 idols played or something similar it would not f*ck*** matter that the class got card draw. The draw becomes an issue when cards like idol and Mark of the Lotus are printed. As of now all of my jade cards are disenchanted as soon as I get any.

I don't think of aggro to be as much of a problem as Jade, and still those one mana broken cards just literally make me feel sad because I wind up feeling stupid playing any other Druid deck that does not take advantage of such combos. Like, explain to me how Innervate is broken beyond limits in say Malygos Druid? or C'thun Aviana? Even in Astral Communion decks, Innervate is useless if you draw it for anything that is not AC itself. Hell, even Ultimate Infestation would not be that good because no matter how many cards you draw you still need more than one and two turns for sure to play the huge minions.

No more infinite ranting. I don't know if my post will be banned or something similar since I went and gave my scoop about the whole class rather than just UI being broken card draw (and I agree with those who mention that it should be a choose one card). I would very much hate it if Innervate took the nerf for cards like Jade Idol or Mark of the Lotus. The problem is not that Innervate makes the combos possible, the problem is that you design cards that become SO FUN AND INTERACTIVE when combined with ramp and really good draw cards. Not even tech cards like Geist being so overcosted for what its target is can put a stop to it.

I'll just go cry in a corner now since Druid is most likely to die as soon as nerfs hit. Sorry for the long post, and thank you if you took your time to read it.

Ultimate Infestation sets a power level bar where Ancient of Lore could've been "draw 2 AND heal 5" for 7 mana --without anyone raising an eyebrow.

Quote from Boethion >>

Quote from Ace1a >>

Quote from gralqo >>

Quote from rapula666 >>

I feel like Im on crazy pills, its not innervate moron. Its a combination of op cards and mechanics. the Jade Mechanic which can suffocate other control. That paired with infestation which allows super ramp from mire keeper, wild growth and Jade blossom. Then you just fill your hand and go. 

There is a reason that people were not calling for innervate to go away before KFT. But now druid is op with the new cards and people blame innervate. While its really all the ramp + infestation + aggro killer spreading plague. 

 Well , I understand exactly what you mean but considering only the speculated outcome of this:

Innervate will be most likely nerfed. Because it's a free non refundable card they'd destroy. Force you and all new players to buy more cards now and in the future.

Also Wild Growth and Swipe are in danger

 Blizzard is watching 6 druid cards and several more neutrals as well. I hope we get a big balance patch this October where druid sees 3+ cards nerfed as well as a nerf to pirates, murlocs and charge. Innervate is almost certainly getting nerfed, developers have said repeatedly how much it restricts design space. Swipe is likely getting nerfed as well. Wild growth is a maybe. UI is likely to get nerfed as druids aren't supposed to have exceptional card draw.

1. Innervate may be changed to refresh 2 empty mana crystals

2. swipe may be changed to 5 mana

3. wild growth might be changed to 3 mana

4. UI may be changed so it only draws 2 cards

5. plague may be changed to 6 mana

6. jade idol might be changed so it can't go infinite

7. Various other cards may be changed, especially charge minions like stonetusk.

 

 Wild Growth at 3 mana and Swipe at 5 mana would make them Warsong Commander level bad. Especially Swipes 1 damage AoE has become weaker and weaker to the point that I personally wouldn't include it in any deck if there was a better option, so nerfing it would just kill the class completely.

Everyone needs to calm down i have been crushing jade druid with my discardlock so dont change anything or you will ruin my ladder climb

This card even ruined the last tavern brawl..."Blood magic"... And blizzard please sack the testers who let this junk through into release

Agreed, I'm going to start playing another card game like Gwent if they don't nerf this stupid druid power level hard

Quote from loke10000 >>

 it doesn´t really do anything special except just making a bunch of value its pretty fair for a 10 mana card

Blizzard keeps ruining their game but we keep coming back to it because of either our investment or just how simple it is to build a new deck when new cards come out.

I pray to god the only change to Innervate is: 2 mana, "Gain 4 mana crystals this turn." or 3 mana, "Gain 5 mana crystals this turn." This change keeps the functional effect of Innervate (+2 Mana this turn) while eliminating a Turn 1 or Turn 2 Innervate play, and preventing an Innervate play after an 8, 9 or 10 costed card.

Then the only other change I would like is this:

I've described my reasoning somewhere else, but in the end: The card draw was WAY too good, and nerfing the damage to 4 makes it much more manageable for the receiving player.

Quote from XoloRouge >>

Then the only other change I would like is this:

I've described my reasoning somewhere else, but in the end: The card draw was WAY too good, and nerfing the damage to 4 makes it much more manageable for the receiving player.

Quote from AxletheBeast >>

Quote from XoloRouge >>

Then the only other change I would like is this:

I've described my reasoning somewhere else, but in the end: The card draw was WAY too good, and nerfing the damage to 4 makes it much more manageable for the receiving player.

 Those numbers are trash though. I'm pretty sure this card would be unplayable even if you just reduced everything to 4 (4 Cards, 4 Damage, 4/4 Ghoul, 4 Armor), so dropping the cards by 2 -- when the draw is the only part of this card that is even powerful on turn 10 -- basically tanks it completely (and 1 additional armor is basically worthless). A nerfed card should, ideally, still be playable.

(And before anyone accuses me of worrying about my favorite broken card being nerfed, I don't even like Druid.)