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New Hunter Card Reveal - Exploading Bloatbat

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Poll: What do you think about this card?

#77 Aug 17, 2017 (Frozen Throne)
Inchpractice
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A full board clear for 6 mana and 2 cards which the opponent can play around. Not that insane at all. It would need to be 2/5 to give it a chance of surviving a turn. 3/2 taunt may be barely alright but no way is 3/2 standard good enough imo and definitely not 2/1.

If we are being honest reasonable stats with a strong effect is the new norm for hearthstone. 2 or 3 years ago that kind of thing raised eyebrows but not any more. 2/5 is a 3 mana stat distribution and then 1 mana for a 2 damage aoe which the opponent has a chance to play around. Compare that to the new warlock dreadlord, 4/5 is 4 mana of stats and then 1 mana for a guaranteed arcane explosion with the chance of more if it is not removed. A 2/5 bat would be no more powerful than that.

Last edited by Inchpractice on Aug 17, 2017

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#79 Aug 17, 2017 (Frozen Throne)
Inchpractice
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Quote from tictactucroc >>

lol, a 2/5 with consecration ability, for the same mana cost as consecration. Nice balancing. You do realize that Play Dead / Feign Death are in the game right ? You do realize that Exploding Bloatbat is a combo/control card and is not meant to be played on curve ?

If it was a battlecry I would compare it to consecration but it isn't which changes things considerably.

Of course it is a combo card, that is why I started off by desiring the toxic arrow combo. In order to do that it needs more health. I said 5 instead of 3 (no way) or 4 (could be also) to give it survivability. Nowhere did I mention it as an on curve play (although it could curve well into Huhuran). It needs health to survive a turn, any turn or at least force some less than optimum trades into it from the threat of toxic arrow. You wouldn't really want to play a 2/5 bat and toxic arrow it and give your opponent the chance to respond. You want the deathrattle to go off the turn you toxic arrow to guarantee the effect on your terms. Bat, arrow and play dead is a 3 card 7 mana board clear, too much investment even for such a strong effect so I wouldn't aim for that.

Sure I realise play dead is a card, exploding bat is a good use of it. The way you posted suggests you think play dead or feign death with exploding bat is broken or something. It isn't, it just represents good value, like sylvannus or abominable bowman would be and a hunter needs to get that value.

Other control decks like priest decks can generate more removal using shadow visions or copying cards and mage can generate more with glyph or their many other generation cards. Warlocks generation cards hurt too much but they are stacked to the brim with aoe. Hunters can't do this unless you are using a fun but unpredictable lock and load deck so they need to maximise value from the spells/effects they have and if you are going to match the power of other decks out there then you need to get off a good deathrattle to make it worth the card slot. Bat is a great tool for this and a rare hunter aoe but it is not going to be played on the promise of these combos alone, it needs to be good standalone to be worth the slot. In an ideal world it needs survivablility to allow more synergy with other cards on the following turn.

Look at abyssal enforcer, 7 mana for a 5.5 mana body and 4 mana hellfire for just 1.5 mana. The new dreadlord 5 mana for 4 mana stats and a 2 mana arcane explosion for 1 mana (maybe add 0.5 mana bonus on effect worth for potential for further arcane explosions). Case in point class cards with known effects can get significant reduction of those effects when attached to a card. Even the neutral primordial drake gets a little reduction for the volcanic potion as part of its 6 mana body (5.5 stats + 0.5 taunt).

Those 3 cards are battlecries as well which just adds to their power as you get the effect when you want on your terms. Having them as a deathrattle weakens the effect significantly. How much is deathrattle: 2 damage aoe worth? No way 4 mana, I would say 2 at most. Discount it to 1 and add a 3 mana body of 2/5 to it and you have a decent card, powerful but not broken just as the other cards above are not. Even if you put the deathrattle value at 3 mana (which I would argue it too high) discount it to 1.5 mana and add the 2.5 mana body of 2/4. It is still a whole lot better than the 2/1 we have now which is just not good enough regardless of any combo cards.

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#81 Aug 17, 2017 (Frozen Throne)
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It's also very good as a Build-a-Beast component. That alone justifies its existence, even if it doesn't make any brilliant Tier-1 decks.

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#82 Aug 17, 2017 (Frozen Throne)
Inchpractice
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Quote from tictactucroc >>

You can't chain abyssal enforcers and despicable dreadlords with play dead/feign death. That's why they have better stats.

With your reasoning, Arfus should be a 4/5 or something.

Stop begging for powercreep. Exploding Bloatbat is a fine card, it's just one card for one archetype (deathrattle hunter), it's not meant to be played anywhere else (beast hunter, secret hunter, face hunter), and it's fine.

Play dead and feign death are using a whole card for the effect. That was why i mentioned about the ability of priest and mage to generate more cards for themselves to use throughout the game. Hunters don't have that luxury so their spells and removal are worth more to them, if they use one of those cards to deal 2 damage to all enemy minions then good. If they don't do something that strong then they are not worth having in the deck.

Arfus is a neutral and a 4/5 is not giving any discount for the ability. So that is not my reasoning at all.

I believe you overvalue the bats deathrattle. Bat into play dead is not that strong a play. Pyro into equality, now that's a strong play 2 card play no one complains about. Hallucination into vilespine, thats a strong play no one complains about. Flamewaker into this, this, this, that was crazy and people complained but this is nothing like that.

Not to mention that due to lack of draw hunter hand sizes are generally lower than other classes, so that alongside the lack of generation thing I mentioned earlier is why a control hunters plays need to be strong and each card needs to have an impact. The hearthstone team has been toying with control hunter for ages, you can see that they are interested in it happening by some of the cards they have been releasing the last 2 years or so. It is a deck they want (it is not an archetype like aggro priest which has had virtually no support) and it is why this card could have been more than it is.

I am not begging for anything, grow up. This conversation has been about exploding bat as part of a control deck, you even suggested that yourself. It is a natural option for a deathrattle deck but could be more if it was changed slightly, that has been the point.

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#83 Aug 17, 2017 (Frozen Throne)
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Play dead and feign death are using a whole card for the effect.

Play Dead becomes a one-cost consecration. And then you (probably) get the effect twice. Yes, your opponent can play around it, but generally, you want this card to soften up your opponents swarm/aggro which means they're just not playing swarm cards when they're optimal. Combine it with Explosive Trap, and some smart play, and even if they're playing around it; they're going to have trouble building up a strong board of any sort -- which is the whole point of playing the card anyway -- to slow the game down until whatever your big late game stuff is.

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