Ridiculously overrated card. The effect isn't any worse than Deathlord or Dirty Rat, both of which weren't really "meta-definining". Playable maybe, but far from being broken.
i like the card, but remove, not a fan of that. would have been so much better if the top card became the last card, imo.
That's an advantage for the opponent.
like to hear a argument what makes it a advantage, because i dont really see how it is. people in constructed pick 30 cards they want in their deck, how is placing one to the back an advantage? it could be in some cases. but it could also mean you place a card they badly needed to the back.
as of now this card has no disadvantage at all, and i think it is way way stronger then people think. you can not compare this to dirty rat or deathlord, they didnt remove any cards.
i like the card, but remove, not a fan of that. would have been so much better if the top card became the last card, imo.
90%+ of the time you can pretend that it does read that, to no ill effect. Please, anyone who looks at this card and sees more than 100 dust: please just go and ask one of your MTG friends how good of an idea it is to run a single mill card in a non-mill deck (this theoretical Warlock mill deck will not work for obvious reason). I am honestly taken aback to see the entire community rejoicing over a Warlock-only Crocalisk.
Hmm... the key advantage of this card will be information about what your opponent just lost, assuming this works like all other cards of its kind and lets both opponents see what was discarded. Its usefulness will be determined by what you do with that information. The effect will have a meaningful impact with as little as discarding the on-curve card they were about to draw. Slows down their ability to build their board and all that. I'm waiting to see if word comes through that this counts as discarding for the sake of the quest and such.
Even still, this is the first card that interferes with your opponent's deck like this. It's meta-defining by default.
i like the card, but remove, not a fan of that. would have been so much better if the top card became the last card, imo.
statistically that does literally nothing. unless you can see the order of the cards in the deck (maybe one day we will but for now we can't) all that does is move from 1 deck order to an equally likely deck order.
That is, by the way, why this battlecry is, on average, completely useless if your opponent doesn't draw their entire deck.
I do, however, agree that if the warlock can see what card is removed, then that information is useful. Has this been confirmed?
edit: maybe in a class like warrior, it could see some play, but it is a completely random mill in warlock (a class that can't play fatigue). Since the mill is random, you basically have a battlecry of do nothing as you have the same chance of milling something important as you do for the card to be on the bottom of the opponent's deck. As a warlock, you are already outdrawing all but miracle rogue and jade druid. Against these two decks, the card has some fringe play benefits since you can stop their combos, but rarely if ever will it work in your favor.
Can you explain how this punishes combo decks, that weren't going to go to fatigue?
This card doesn't punish combo decks, because it can't consistently discard the combo pieces, that's it.
Of course it can punish combo decks. All cards used there are crucial, and almost all are necessary for the combo. Even when you run duplicates for consistency, you usually spend one just to survive (for example a Fireball or an Ice Block). Not to mention that your opponent will use 2 of these babies for maximum deck disruption. Add 2 Dirty Rats & prepare for a salt storm.
If all cards in a combo deck are crucial, then that dictates that a combo deck must draw all 30 cards in order to combo, which isn't true.
Combo decks use about 5-6 key cards which are held in the hand for the majority of the game. Dirty Rat is good because it forces them out of the hand. This card is not, because it so likely to burn one of the other 25 cards.
As it stands, there's no point teching this card when you can tech Dirty Rat.
i like the card, but remove, not a fan of that. would have been so much better if the top card became the last card, imo.
That's an advantage for the opponent.
like to hear a argument what makes it a advantage, because i dont really see how it is. people in constructed pick 30 cards they want in their deck, how is placing one to the back an advantage? it could be in some cases. but it could also mean you place a card they badly needed to the back.
as of now this card has no disadvantage at all, and i think it is way way stronger then people think. you can not compare this to dirty rat or deathlord, they didnt remove any cards.
There will always be a last card in your deck. This reveals what that last card is. Now you have the knowledge of what your last card is, and can play accordingly knowing you won't draw that card until the end.
If the card said remove the bottom card from the opponents deck, would that make you feel better? It could say remove the middle card, it doesn't matter. It's all the same in the end. Unless the game goes to fatigue the card removal /does not matter/.
I think the idea that this would function like Dirty Rat and remove combo pieces is unrealistic, but this has other utility. The most basic one is to win a long value game, which is something that Warlock has traditionally struggled with due to their Hero Power drawing them too many cards and providing too little value, forcing them into using cards like Lord Jaraxxus or an OTK combo to end the game before fatigue.
Another use is to soft-counter Jade Druid by making them shuffle sooner, as well as any other deck that likes to shuffle cards into a tiny deck. It would for example be excellent against Elise Starseeker since the Golden Monkey is on average shuffled into a deck with just 7-8 cards in it, giving you about a 25% chance to straight up win if you play two of these immediately afterwards.
The downside of the card is that it's crap for tempo as a vanilla 2/3, which might make it unplayable if Warlock will struggle to stay alive. It's kind of like how Entomb was great against control decks, and every Priest ran two copies when Control Warrior was the deck to beat, but dropped down to one or zero copies when aggro took over.
The reason for the inconsistent wording on this card is psychological (there is no 'top card' in your deck, the deck is not ordered you draw a random card every time).
The devs know there would be more backlash if the card read "Remove a random card", so they changed it to sound better even though it's doing exactly the same thing.
and multiply it by 2
Brann Bronzebeard+Gnomish Vampire+Youthful Brewmaster+Gnomish Vampire
Ridiculously overrated card. The effect isn't any worse than Deathlord or Dirty Rat, both of which weren't really "meta-definining". Playable maybe, but far from being broken.
Arena Leaderboard EU - September 2018: #47 (@7.77 Wins Average)
finally a good discard card
i like the card, but remove, not a fan of that.
would have been so much better if the top card became the last card, imo.
Are you people serious? how can this be ever useless? it's dirty rat with zero drawback.
Maybe because some of you only played HS but in other card games this is a very strong effect.
This goes against the philosophy of why Illidan was nerfed, apparently manipulating your opponent's hand/ deck is a no-no?
Love at first sight.
people in constructed pick 30 cards they want in their deck, how is placing one to the back an advantage?
it could be in some cases. but it could also mean you place a card they badly needed to the back.
as of now this card has no disadvantage at all, and i think it is way way stronger then people think.
you can not compare this to dirty rat or deathlord, they didnt remove any cards.
I hate this card, on a side note i don't like mill decks. I don't understand why it stat as a 2/3 when the effect is so powerful.
Hmm... the key advantage of this card will be information about what your opponent just lost, assuming this works like all other cards of its kind and lets both opponents see what was discarded. Its usefulness will be determined by what you do with that information. The effect will have a meaningful impact with as little as discarding the on-curve card they were about to draw. Slows down their ability to build their board and all that. I'm waiting to see if word comes through that this counts as discarding for the sake of the quest and such.
Even still, this is the first card that interferes with your opponent's deck like this. It's meta-defining by default.
This card is so bad lol. Prince Malchezaar 2.0
edit: maybe in a class like warrior, it could see some play, but it is a completely random mill in warlock (a class that can't play fatigue). Since the mill is random, you basically have a battlecry of do nothing as you have the same chance of milling something important as you do for the card to be on the bottom of the opponent's deck. As a warlock, you are already outdrawing all but miracle rogue and jade druid. Against these two decks, the card has some fringe play benefits since you can stop their combos, but rarely if ever will it work in your favor.
I think the idea that this would function like Dirty Rat and remove combo pieces is unrealistic, but this has other utility. The most basic one is to win a long value game, which is something that Warlock has traditionally struggled with due to their Hero Power drawing them too many cards and providing too little value, forcing them into using cards like Lord Jaraxxus or an OTK combo to end the game before fatigue.
Another use is to soft-counter Jade Druid by making them shuffle sooner, as well as any other deck that likes to shuffle cards into a tiny deck. It would for example be excellent against Elise Starseeker since the Golden Monkey is on average shuffled into a deck with just 7-8 cards in it, giving you about a 25% chance to straight up win if you play two of these immediately afterwards.
The downside of the card is that it's crap for tempo as a vanilla 2/3, which might make it unplayable if Warlock will struggle to stay alive. It's kind of like how Entomb was great against control decks, and every Priest ran two copies when Control Warrior was the deck to beat, but dropped down to one or zero copies when aggro took over.
The reason for the inconsistent wording on this card is psychological (there is no 'top card' in your deck, the deck is not ordered you draw a random card every time).
The devs know there would be more backlash if the card read "Remove a random card", so they changed it to sound better even though it's doing exactly the same thing.
Both sides will probably see which card will be burned. Because it uses the same text with Fel Reaver. This is just a theory, though.