Hearthpwn

This just represents what Warlock has become. Our 2 drop used to be Dark Peddler. So much value and skill involed in the decisicion. Now we've sunk to Gnomeferatu. Literally 2 mana do nothing.

ITS JUST A CARD

Quote from achan1058 >>

Quote from Syncesta >>

What stats are you drawing from that lead to your conclusions?
Give me some actual data rather than conjecture that justifies your stance as being more informed/valid than the rest of us?

 It's the probability portion of the stats course that is being referred to. Anyone who have taken such a course knows that this card is just as impactful if it says remove the bottom card of your opponent's deck. This is not a statistical argument, but a mathematical one.

Quote from Syncesta >>

I totally understand what you both are basing your claim on - some spurious and vague reliance on the assumed infallibility of maths - I just don't understand why it's relevant WHERE the card that's removed is in your deck. You say that removing a card from a deck that doesn't go to fatigue is the same as having no effect at all but that's just faulty logic. Some other people have mentioned the intelligence benefit of this card - learning about WHAT you're playing on turn 2 is okay, sure, but can I reword why I think this card is good and will be used in Warlock decks, it may even be a key piece of an archetype we haven't strictly seen yet in Hearthstone. 

 

Quote from achan1058 >>

Quote from Syncesta >>

I totally understand what you both are basing your claim on - some spurious and vague reliance on the assumed infallibility of maths - I just don't understand why it's relevant WHERE the card that's removed is in your deck. You say that removing a card from a deck that doesn't go to fatigue is the same as having no effect at all but that's just faulty logic. Some other people have mentioned the intelligence benefit of this card - learning about WHAT you're playing on turn 2 is okay, sure, but can I reword why I think this card is good and will be used in Warlock decks, it may even be a key piece of an archetype we haven't strictly seen yet in Hearthstone. 

 

 

If upon fully accepting this conclusion, that you think removing the bottom card of a deck makes Gnomeferatu good, that's your opinion, one that I disagree on.

Quote from Syncesta >>

Quote from achan1058 >>

Quote from Syncesta >>

What stats are you drawing from that lead to your conclusions?
Give me some actual data rather than conjecture that justifies your stance as being more informed/valid than the rest of us?

 It's the probability portion of the stats course that is being referred to. Anyone who have taken such a course knows that this card is just as impactful if it says remove the bottom card of your opponent's deck. This is not a statistical argument, but a mathematical one.

I totally understand what you both are basing your claim on - some spurious and vague reliance on the assumed infallibility of maths - I just don't understand why it's relevant WHERE the card that's removed is in your deck. You say that removing a card from a deck that doesn't go to fatigue is the same as having no effect at all but that's just faulty logic. Some other people have mentioned the intelligence benefit of this card - learning about WHAT you're playing on turn 2 is okay, sure, but can I reword why I think this card is good and will be used in Warlock decks, it may even be a key piece of an archetype we haven't strictly seen yet in Hearthstone. 

When you play this on turn 2 or turn 1 with coin you've removed a card they could have drawn/relied on, whether or not that's a clutch piece of a combo is moot, especially for 2 mana. Why would Team 5 make a card that can reliably win games for 2 mana? WHERE in your opponent's deck the card is is irrelevant because you are, for 2 mana on a perfectly acceptable body messing with your opponent's options. It just so happens to be the next draw they would have had next turn. Sure, you're thinning your opponent's deck but let's be honest, this is Warlock, when have they cared about that? How is DyingAtheist's argument any different to saying that you shouldn't put cards in your deck that you might not draw because it's like not having them at all anyway? Having 20 cards would be better than having 30 cards? Really?

DyingAtheist thinks that by virtue of 'data' (which in this case is the assumption that the effect is irrelevant based on what I wrote above) his analysis is infallible and anybody that thinks this card is good is just stupid for not relying on data (whatever we're talking about here I have no idea because I see no data sets to back up the claim and I'm sure that Team 5 could do with this incredible insight)

Anyway, just so I understand your signature clearly:

People who don't play Pirate Warrior because it's toxic and requires no real interaction with the nuanced complexities of the game are worse than people that play Pirate Warrior because it's toxic and requires no real interaction with the nuanced complexities of the game? 

Is that statement based on data too?

 

Also who cares because Gnomeferatu Coldlight Oracle Treachery Howlfiend shenanigans for the lulz

if you want to target combo-decks (and that's the only reason you would play this card) you need to go fo the cards in your oponents hand, that's the place where you most likely find the combo pieces. apart from dirty rat, is see far more potential in treachery --> howlfiend --> run some crapminions into it than gnomeferatu. voted bad.

warlock just can't run a mill-deck similar to what we have seen so far in hearthstone, the hero-power has massive anti-synergie with that strategy. the only way is exactly targeting the hand-cards.

I'm going to hate this card and Skulking Geist just as much as I hated Mill Rogue/Druid. Copy one of my spells, steal one of my minions (because once it's on the board, that's the risk I take for playing it), sure, because that doesn't take away from my deck, but this is just. No Blizzard. Forcing me into card draw that I may not want is annoying enough, but we craft our decks very specifically and to be able to remove even one card with no way to stop it from happening is too much. Spells can be countered, deathrattle can be silenced. There are no good specific counters to battlecry effects that don't rely entirely on RNG (Dirty Rat, Ancestor's Call). Whether either this or Skulking Geist see real play or not, it's still going to be stupidly annoying playing against them. And yes, I do understand that a good deck would survive against either of these just fine. It does not mean I have to like what these cards do nor think that this is a good direction to be going in.

Because I'm a bit of a masochist have a Mill Warlock theorycraft: 

Quote from VanArchon >>

I'm going to hate this card and Skulking Geist just as much as I hated Mill Rogue/Druid. Copy one of my spells, steal one of my minions (because once it's on the board, that's the risk I take for playing it), sure, because that doesn't take away from my deck, but this is just. No Blizzard. Forcing me into card draw that I may not want is annoying enough, but we craft our decks very specifically and to be able to remove even one card with no way to stop it from happening is too much. Spells can be countered, deathrattle can be silenced. There are no good specific counters to battlecry effects that don't rely entirely on RNG (Dirty Rat, Ancestor's Call). Whether either this or Skulking Geist see real play or not, it's still going to be stupidly annoying playing against them. And yes, I do understand that a good deck would survive against either of these just fine. It does not mean I have to like what these cards do nor think that this is a good direction to be going in.

Because I'm a bit of a masochist have a Mill Warlock theorycraft: 

[KotFT] Theorycraft Mill Warlock Unknown Deck by VanArchon - Aug 5, 2017 View Deck String Export to BBCode Export to Cockatrice Export to MarkDown Export to Html Clone this deck
Minion (21) 1x The Lich King 2x Gnomeferatu 1x Corpse Raiser 2x Kabal Courier 2x Moat Lurker 2x Ancient Brewmaster 2x Acolyte of Pain 2x Elven Archer 1x Polluted Hoarder 2x Runic Egg 2x Tentacle of N'Zoth 2x Youthful Brewmaster	Ability (9) 2x Treachery 2x Defile 1x Siphon Soul 2x Unwilling Sacrifice 2x Drain Soul
Loading Collection

New DK Heros are so crazy that Warlocks have to be able to have the chance to destroy them :-/

Quote from achan1058 >>

Quote from Coolerz >>

My concern is that they are adding this effect to the game.

 You are going to use this card as an example instead of Skulking Geist? Remove a card from the bottom of your opponent's deck isn't unfun. Removing all copies of a specific type of card from both hand and deck, is.

Quote from Coolerz >>

Quote from achan1058 >>

Quote from Coolerz >>

My concern is that they are adding this effect to the game.

 You are going to use this card as an example instead of Skulking Geist? Remove a card from the bottom of your opponent's deck isn't unfun. Removing all copies of a specific type of card from both hand and deck, is.

 You know, I didn't even see that card lol. Idk what's going on in blizzard's head atm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjhlryUnEaY

I don't know why the video link above would convince anyone that hasn't been convinced yet. He makes pretty much the same points that we've already made. But in case it does, there is the link. I think he talks about gnomeferatu at around 4:45.

The only reason I am so stressed about this card is that it makes no sense why it isn't a demon!!!

Weak and toxic.

It's essentially a River Crocolisk, since discarding a card from a deck only really matters in game terms if the game goes to fatigue.  We know this from Fel Reaver, or ought to.

However, it's a toxic card, since a discarded card from a deck can only add salt to the game.

It should not have been printed.

It's river croc with a downside in most games, this card is awful. 

Quote from L84dinnr >>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjhlryUnEaY

I don't know why the video link above would convince anyone that hasn't been convinced yet. He makes pretty much the same points that we've already made. But in case it does, there is the link. I think he talks about gnomeferatu at around 4:45.

Quote from thebitterfig >>

Weak and toxic.

It's essentially a River Crocolisk, since discarding a card from a deck only really matters in game terms if the game goes to fatigue.  We know this from Fel Reaver, or ought to.

However, it's a toxic card, since a discarded card from a deck can only add salt to the game.

It should not have been printed.

What's with the 39+% of meta-defining poll?

Anyway, I don't see why people should feel bad about being milled a card. It is a fundamental concept that a card milled is just the same as a card on the bottom you will never draw. Of course if your deck is like Exodia mage then that may have been a bit different, but overall I don't see why people should be upset. 

And.... who would really use this card, like, for real?

Quote from asteroidm >>

 You don't play this card for it's quality, you play this card for the tilt and lawls.