I'm a long time Priest player and lets not forget we said the exact same things about Tortollan Shellraiser. This card won't see play at all, for pretty much the same reasons. 2/6 for 4 mana is not good, when 3/6 for 4 mana exists (Water Elemental for Mage, Priest of the Feast for Priest). A single card won't make quest viable (if Mage quest isn't already viable, this card won't make it so. If it's already viable, this card only helps it slightly).
I cannot stress enough that 2 attack for 4 mana is not good.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
I'm a long time Priest player and lets not forget we said the exact same things about Tortollan Shellraiser. This card won't see play at all, for pretty much the same reasons. 2/6 for 4 mana is not good, when 3/6 for 4 mana exists (Water Elemental for Mage, Priest of the Feast for Priest). A single card won't make quest viable (if Mage quest isn't already viable, this card won't make it so. If it's already viable, this card only helps it slightly).
You should have warned me and dozens of players that Tortolla is no use! Tortolla carries a total of 3/7 which is nice for a 4 mana card.
I'm a long time Priest player and lets not forget we said the exact same things about Tortollan Shellraiser. This card won't see play at all, for pretty much the same reasons. 2/6 for 4 mana is not good, when 3/6 for 4 mana exists (Water Elemental for Mage, Priest of the Feast for Priest). A single card won't make quest viable (if Mage quest isn't already viable, this card won't make it so. If it's already viable, this card only helps it slightly).
I cannot stress enough that 2 attack for 4 mana is not good.
I mean it's kinda a 2/10 for 5 mana. Not that that stat line is good either.
Double Wisp is 2/2 for zero mana. Adding up stat totals compared to mana cost is a poor way to evaluate a card though.
This is only sorta similar. The problem here is that you are also using two card slots. When referring to this card it is generating 12 points for stats for a single card and five mana. Now, it's not perfect way to judge, I whole heatedly agree. After all one volcanic postion will essetially deal 6 stat points worth of damage. But there are also upsides, like 4 of the health points have taunt and so if an AoE clear isn't there the attacking 5/5 is only doing 2 points of damage to the statline.
Okay not explaining this well. My point is this. I am also not evaluating this card, I am pointing out you didn't do a very comprehensive job of evaluating the card either. You talk about the stat line but really people aren't playing it for the stat line they are playing for the effect and stall it could provide. Mage and Priest are not the same thing and are trying to different things.
Now I am not saying this card is good for quest mage, I have never played quest mage and I wouldn't know. Just that calling this card out based on your priest experience (my class as well) isn't the best way to put your argument.
ok well 4 mana "add mirror image to your hand" is pretty garbage. Why doesn't mirror image see play? Because it's a bad card. It's best played early in combination with Mana Wyrm, because two 0/2 taunt minions on their own don't do anything. Best case scenario is this generates value for Antonidas, but again............it's probably not worth it to run a bad 4-drop.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
ok well 4 mana "add mirror image to your hand" is pretty garbage. Why doesn't mirror image see play? Because it's a bad card. It's best played early in combination with Mana Wyrm, because two 0/2 taunt minions on their own don't do anything. Best case scenario is this generates value for Antonidas, but again............it's probably not worth it to run a bad 4-drop.
There are a lot of cards that don't see play because they aren't worth a deck spot but are solid when generated in other ways. Not a great argument. I mean pushing the quest while throwing a bit of delay out there doesn't seem to bad either. My biggest issue is, if that is what you're doing the whats the point of the 2/6? Like you said the stat line sucks, even with mirror image counted. It just becomes a rather expensive mirror image since most people can mostly ignore the 2/6 altogether. Listen I agree, it's not a great card, I just didn't find some points of your arguments compelling aside from 2/6 sucks, cause it does.
I mean do you run Lyra because you want to get Power Word; Glory? No, you run Lyra because of the card cycle into something useful. You would most likely not run it if it were Battlecry: Add Power Word: Glory to your hand. Similarly, there really isn't a good reason to run a bad card that adds a bad card to your hand.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
I mean do you run Lyra because you want to get Power Word; Glory? No, you run Lyra because of the card cycle into something useful. You would most likely not run it if it were Battlecry: Add Power Word: Glory to your hand. Similarly, there really isn't a good reason to run a bad card that adds a bad card to your hand.
Again with the priest comparisons. Additionally the actual comparison here is terrible . I understand what you are saying, but if Lyra was a 3/5 LEGENDARY that only gave power word glory as a battle cry, then no, I wouldn't run it. Now if tortoallan shelraiser gave me a copy of power word glory (instead of it's current death rattle) I would consider running it WITH Lyra, I would at least try it out before I definitively said anything. That is closer to what is happening here. This minion is creating a spell that is feeding another legendary in your deck or in this case in play (quest) AND is providing a bit of stall. Less stall (like none) if they have AoE clear. More stall if they have attacking minions. In quest mage stalling to get the combo AND working towards completing the combo are pretty important. Again though I agree the stat line for this guy sucks and literally provides nothing else. It would honestly be better if it were a 1 mana 0/2 with taunt and this effect. As is 4 mana for a rather useless body seems too high a price for the marginal push it gives you to the quest and unreliable stall at that stage of the game.
Again, I don't actually disagree with your sentiment, I am less sure of it simply because I have not played any quest mage, but for the most apart I agree. I just don't think you have been arguing your point well.
tl;dr I agree with you but I just want to be an asshole.
A bad minion that generates a bad spell just for late game synergy is a wasted card slot. This might see play if there's future synergy with cards we haven't seen yet, but in the existing pool, it's not gonna happen.
ok well 4 mana "add mirror image to your hand" is pretty garbage. Why doesn't mirror image see play? Because it's a bad card. It's best played early in combination with Mana Wyrm, because two 0/2 taunt minions on their own don't do anything. Best case scenario is this generates value for Antonidas, but again............it's probably not worth it to run a bad 4-drop.
I'd love to see your thoughts on Hydrologist again, as "no Paladin secret sees play in standard cause they are bad".
ok well 4 mana "add mirror image to your hand" is pretty garbage. Why doesn't mirror image see play? Because it's a bad card. It's best played early in combination with Mana Wyrm, because two 0/2 taunt minions on their own don't do anything. Best case scenario is this generates value for Antonidas, but again............it's probably not worth it to run a bad 4-drop.
I'd love to see your thoughts on Hydrologist again, as "no Paladin secret sees play in standard cause they are bad".
Sure. "No Paladin secret sees play because they are bad" isn't true. They don't see play because they're not worth the card slot. Mirror Image is bad because it's bad, which is why it doesn't see play. Additionally, Hydrologist has average stats for a 2 drop and has Murloc synergy, and fits the 2-drop slot, which Paladin really needed.
This card is bad because it's bad and adds a bad card to your hand, and Mage already has better 4-drop options.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
ok well 4 mana "add mirror image to your hand" is pretty garbage. Why doesn't mirror image see play? Because it's a bad card. It's best played early in combination with Mana Wyrm, because two 0/2 taunt minions on their own don't do anything. Best case scenario is this generates value for Antonidas, but again............it's probably not worth it to run a bad 4-drop.
I'd love to see your thoughts on Hydrologist again, as "no Paladin secret sees play in standard cause they are bad".
Sure. "No Paladin secret sees play because they are bad" isn't true. They don't see play because they're not worth the card slot. Mirror Image is bad because it's bad, which is why it doesn't see play. Additionally, Hydrologist has average stats for a 2 drop and has Murloc synergy, and fits the 2-drop slot, which Paladin really needed.
This card is bad because it's bad and adds a bad card to your hand, and Mage already has better 4-drop options.
Tell me more about those awesome 4 drops in quest mage. This has 1 less attack than good stats, anyway seems enough to make some good trades. It also gives you one card which can be both used for easier quest completed or protect from aggro.
And MIrror Image is WAY better card than most Pala Secrets. It was played in A LOT of tempo mages to protect Wyrm and Apprentice, or combo with Antonidas or Flamewaker.
WOW, seems like Mirror Image made it to the Blizzcon Finals IN the deck. Still rating it as a "bad card". I accept it is not the card you put in a quest mage or nowadays tempo cause makes no sense, but come on, it is always welcome agains aggro decks, plus the minion to absorb some damage.
Sure. "No Paladin secret sees play because they are bad" isn't true. They don't see play because they're not worth the card slot. Mirror Image is bad because it's bad, which is why it doesn't see play. Additionally, Hydrologist has average stats for a 2 drop and has Murloc synergy, and fits the 2-drop slot, which Paladin really needed.
This card is bad because it's bad and adds a bad card to your hand, and Mage already has better 4-drop options.
Yeah, it's not really fair to talk about Murloc synergy if you're going to ignore the spell synergy. Any card that creates a spell AND puts a body on the board is going to be good in certain decks. In Wild, this is lovely with Flamewaker among other things.
Sure. "No Paladin secret sees play because they are bad" isn't true. They don't see play because they're not worth the card slot. Mirror Image is bad because it's bad, which is why it doesn't see play. Additionally, Hydrologist has average stats for a 2 drop and has Murloc synergy, and fits the 2-drop slot, which Paladin really needed.
This card is bad because it's bad and adds a bad card to your hand, and Mage already has better 4-drop options.
Yeah, it's not really fair to talk about Murloc synergy if you're going to ignore the spell synergy. Any card that creates a spell AND puts a body on the board is going to be good in certain decks. In Wild, this is lovely with Flamewaker among other things.
ok well I'm talking about Standard. The only spell synergy in Standard is Mana Wyrm and Antonidas, but it's not worth running a bad card that generates a bad spell just for this synergy, as there currently exists good cards that generate good spells for spell synergy.
This in wild is not good enough... Come on, screw synergy, there are way better cards to take the slot. Quest Mage in Standard is, for now, its only place. Maybe Reno Mage in Wild, but I just don't think so. But this card to me screams boost to Std Quest Mage, which also I hate tbh.
tl;dr I agree with you but I just want to be an asshole.
A bad minion that generates a bad spell just for late game synergy is a wasted card slot. This might see play if there's future synergy with cards we haven't seen yet, but in the existing pool, it's not gonna happen.
Not trying to be ass hole. Really not. Just wanted to point out that pointing to a completely different class with a completely different goal in mind isn't a very convincing argument. I am here to discuss stuff. I am a bit the fence with this card so I like to hear peoples reasoning for liking or disliking a card and pointing out (and having pointed out to me) when I think the reasoning is sound. It may change my mind on card. I haven't been derogatory towards you or, at least in my opinion haven't been belittling. Just wanted to show you what I thought was a flaw in the argument so re-evaluation can be done on the card. But hey it's good to know that you'll call someone an ass hole at the drop of a hat. Sorry to engage you. Won't happen again.
stats are stats. 4 mana 2/6 is bad stats and mirror image is a bad card outside of Wild Tempo Mage. This card very likely won't see play after the first week, except in gimmick tier 3 or worse decks.
If you need any further explanation, see my signature (second line, not the part about the salt thread).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
"2/6 for 4 mana with an effect, decent card"
"good in quest"
Guys.
I'm a long time Priest player and lets not forget we said the exact same things about Tortollan Shellraiser. This card won't see play at all, for pretty much the same reasons. 2/6 for 4 mana is not good, when 3/6 for 4 mana exists (Water Elemental for Mage, Priest of the Feast for Priest). A single card won't make quest viable (if Mage quest isn't already viable, this card won't make it so. If it's already viable, this card only helps it slightly).
I cannot stress enough that 2 attack for 4 mana is not good.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
Guess I'm wrong, Shellraiser is god tier and so is this card.
Blizzard please nerf!!!
Goddamn. You can't just fucking say a thing and have it be true. Shellraiser does not see play. No legitimate tier 1 or 2 deck in standard runs it.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
Double Wisp is 2/2 for zero mana. Adding up stat totals compared to mana cost is a poor way to evaluate a card though.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
ok well 4 mana "add mirror image to your hand" is pretty garbage. Why doesn't mirror image see play? Because it's a bad card. It's best played early in combination with Mana Wyrm, because two 0/2 taunt minions on their own don't do anything. Best case scenario is this generates value for Antonidas, but again............it's probably not worth it to run a bad 4-drop.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
I mean do you run Lyra because you want to get Power Word; Glory? No, you run Lyra because of the card cycle into something useful. You would most likely not run it if it were Battlecry: Add Power Word: Glory to your hand. Similarly, there really isn't a good reason to run a bad card that adds a bad card to your hand.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
tl;dr I agree with you but I just want to be an asshole.
A bad minion that generates a bad spell just for late game synergy is a wasted card slot. This might see play if there's future synergy with cards we haven't seen yet, but in the existing pool, it's not gonna happen.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
Meh.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
This in wild is not good enough... Come on, screw synergy, there are way better cards to take the slot. Quest Mage in Standard is, for now, its only place. Maybe Reno Mage in Wild, but I just don't think so. But this card to me screams boost to Std Quest Mage, which also I hate tbh.
stats are stats. 4 mana 2/6 is bad stats and mirror image is a bad card outside of Wild Tempo Mage. This card very likely won't see play after the first week, except in gimmick tier 3 or worse decks.
If you need any further explanation, see my signature (second line, not the part about the salt thread).
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!