Hearthpwn

Quote from Fheny123 >>

No dude, not all

Quote from Fheny123 >>

Works really great in zoo decks. The best and playable Prince by far and its not even bad.

 

 

 

Quote from Criptfeind >>

I dunno, I can't talk for everyone's reasons for thinking this is bad of course, but I think people were less wrong when they said this was bad then people are saying they are now. 

The fear of this card was always that the slow start to your game would often cause you to fall behind and loose irregardless of the buffs, especially against decks that have very explosive starts, at the time such as pirate warrior or token druid. And then the expansion came out and decks with explosive starts such as pirate warrior and token druid dominated the early game deck scene that this card is now finding a home in, you couldn't respond with a 2 mana 2/2 or having an awkward deck without two drops against a deck with the tempo of innervate or even fwa. Then a month later nerfs against decks with explosive starts, pirate warrior and token druid, rolled out, specifically targeting their ability to have a massive tempo in the first couple of turns. Now a 2 mana 2/2 or an somewhat more awkward turn 2 isn't fatal to play against them, and you can actually eventually get the benefit from the buffs against other fast decks. I don't think it should be super surprising that this card is a lot lot better after the nerfs, and I don't think people who called it bad before the nerfs were wrong.

Quote from WhatAChamp >>

Quote from Criptfeind >>

I dunno, I can't talk for everyone's reasons for thinking this is bad of course, but I think people were less wrong when they said this was bad then people are saying they are now. 

The fear of this card was always that the slow start to your game would often cause you to fall behind and loose irregardless of the buffs, especially against decks that have very explosive starts, at the time such as pirate warrior or token druid. And then the expansion came out and decks with explosive starts such as pirate warrior and token druid dominated the early game deck scene that this card is now finding a home in, you couldn't respond with a 2 mana 2/2 or having an awkward deck without two drops against a deck with the tempo of innervate or even fwa. Then a month later nerfs against decks with explosive starts, pirate warrior and token druid, rolled out, specifically targeting their ability to have a massive tempo in the first couple of turns. Now a 2 mana 2/2 or an somewhat more awkward turn 2 isn't fatal to play against them, and you can actually eventually get the benefit from the buffs against other fast decks. I don't think it should be super surprising that this card is a lot lot better after the nerfs, and I don't think people who called it bad before the nerfs were wrong.

 Comments like "trash-tier", "worst card ever" and "auto-dust" were incredibly ignorant and shortsighted. I'm glad people lost out by dusting him right away as I actually spent the 1600 to get him as my second crafted legendary of the pack. It doesn't matter that the meta change made him really strong, the card was a fantastic card before and just needed the right deck. He was an amazing addition to zoolock and quest hunter, while being strong in elemental rogue (all of these pre-nerf). I don't think these comments needed to be defended just because these people were too short-sighted to see that a card doesn't need to fit neatly into each of their T1 netdecks to be a good card still.

The same thing happened with all the whiny priests complaining about Purify. Instead of just trying it out and seeing the strength it had in conjunction with Eerie Statue, Ancient Watcher and Fel Orc Soulfiend, they had to act like insufferable two-year-olds to Brode. The situation is a bit different as future cards (3 mana 4/8 and elemental that reduce cost of spells) really helped make the card more useful, but the level of overreaction in this community is downright disgusting. Not every single card is meant to be placed in your cookie-cutter deck. Use some creativity and try something new out instead of just bitching and moaning about every single card that gets released.

If this sounds like it's aimed at you, my apologies Criptfeind. It's more frustration at other players that I don't think need their actions defended.

asteroidm: Why would you regret that? If you dusted a card when it was nerfed, you'd get a full dust amount from it, you didn't loose anything from the act. I always dust everything that gets nerfed, even when I think it will still be playable, if I need it later I'll simply recraft it with the dust I got... Heck, I dusted murloc warleader when it got nerfed, and yesterday I crafted them back to complete a deck for a quest, did the quest, then dusted them again. 

WhatAChamp: I agree that unnecessarily negative comments on the card were uncalled for, and those who voted dust it were probably incorrect (assuming you take it as a literal assessment of what to do with the card), but no more so then the people who now say that people were wrong about voting it bad, I personally voted it bad, a rating I stand by as being absolutely the correct one to make, and my post was in defense of myself and those who rated it the same, and targeted towards those who didn't seem aware that a balance patch went out. 

As an aside about Purify and Priest, although as always the depths of any internet comment board were uncalled for in that case, I think in general some complaint was warranted there, being that Purify came at such a long and low point in the history of priest and in an adventure non the less, where priest was only getting 3 cards. Priest was absolutely desperate for something to make it relevant, releasing purify, taking up one of it's valuable slots for what at the time was a bad card for an even worse deck, was absolutely a terrible idea, something that Blizzard themselves would later admit. And honestly when a card is so bad that it changed the way arena works and potentially had at least some hand in eliminating adventures I think some level of grumbling (but, as always, not the depths to which 'fans' will stoop to every day) was completely justified. Just to make sure that you're not shoveling those with legitimate complaints up in the pile of people who are just whiners.

Quote from Criptfeind >>

asteroidm: Why would you regret that? If you dusted a card when it was nerfed, you'd get a full dust amount from it, you didn't loose anything from the act. I always dust everything that gets nerfed, even when I think it will still be playable, if I need it later I'll simply recraft it with the dust I got... Heck, I dusted murloc warleader when it got nerfed, and yesterday I crafted them back to complete a deck for a quest, did the quest, then dusted them again. 

WhatAChamp: I agree that unnecessarily negative comments on the card were uncalled for, and those who voted dust it were probably incorrect (assuming you take it as a literal assessment of what to do with the card), but no more so then the people who now say that people were wrong about voting it bad, I personally voted it bad, a rating I stand by as being absolutely the correct one to make, and my post was in defense of myself and those who rated it the same, and targeted towards those who didn't seem aware that a balance patch went out. 

As an aside about Purify and Priest, although as always the depths of any internet comment board were uncalled for in that case, I think in general some complaint was warranted there, being that Purify came at such a long and low point in the history of priest and in an adventure non the less, where priest was only getting 3 cards. Priest was absolutely desperate for something to make it relevant, releasing purify, taking up one of it's valuable slots for what at the time was a bad card for an even worse deck, was absolutely a terrible idea, something that Blizzard themselves would later admit. And honestly when a card is so bad that it changed the way arena works and potentially had at least some hand in eliminating adventures I think some level of grumbling (but, as always, not the depths to which 'fans' will stoop to every day) was completely justified. Just to make sure that you're not shoveling those with legitimate complaints up in the pile of people who are just whiners.

Quote from Criptfeind >>

asteroidm: Why would you regret that? If you dusted a card when it was nerfed, you'd get a full dust amount from it, you didn't loose anything from the act. I always dust everything that gets nerfed, even when I think it will still be playable, if I need it later I'll simply recraft it with the dust I got... Heck, I dusted murloc warleader when it got nerfed, and yesterday I crafted them back to complete a deck for a quest, did the quest, then dusted them again. 

WhatAChamp: I agree that unnecessarily negative comments on the card were uncalled for, and those who voted dust it were probably incorrect (assuming you take it as a literal assessment of what to do with the card), but no more so then the people who now say that people were wrong about voting it bad, I personally voted it bad, a rating I stand by as being absolutely the correct one to make, and my post was in defense of myself and those who rated it the same, and targeted towards those who didn't seem aware that a balance patch went out. 

As an aside about Purify and Priest, although as always the depths of any internet comment board were uncalled for in that case, I think in general some complaint was warranted there, being that Purify came at such a long and low point in the history of priest and in an adventure non the less, where priest was only getting 3 cards. Priest was absolutely desperate for something to make it relevant, releasing purify, taking up one of it's valuable slots for what at the time was a bad card for an even worse deck, was absolutely a terrible idea, something that Blizzard themselves would later admit. And honestly when a card is so bad that it changed the way arena works and potentially had at least some hand in eliminating adventures I think some level of grumbling (but, as always, not the depths to which 'fans' will stoop to every day) was completely justified. Just to make sure that you're not shoveling those with legitimate complaints up in the pile of people who are just whiners.

Can we call this the major mistake users this forum ever does in card prediction?

Play this card in turn 2 in my last 2 games and both opponents concede...

There really something wrong with this card? Never see before concede after playing a single card in turn 2...

Quote from murlocleader2001 >>

Quote from hillandder >>

Can we call this the major mistake users this forum ever does in card prediction?

 people werent wrong about this card it did suck but the nerfs changed it

Anyone good in math can help me?

What are the odds to get this card in starting hand when you hard mulligan for that?

What are the odds 5 games in a row opponents play this card in turn 2 or coined in turn 1?

I can't believe it is only because my bad luck...

I believe it's about a 14% chance to draw it in your first 4 cards, assuming you are specifically mulliganing for it.
After the mulligan, I think it increases to about 24ish %. Remember how Warrior had FWA on 2 every game? It's pretty similar to that.

Someone better than me can do the math.

Not everyone was wrong.

Not trying to give myself credit (but (lol)) we were 20 % who actually saw this card as really strong.

Yup. Not everyone was wrong. In fact, a majority, those who voted somewhere around playable and bad, were right! I'll keep posting this every page, maybe even multiple times per page if needed: People like to think of this card as some big sign of how bad people are at predicting cards, lol, look, the keycard for a bunch of top decks most people rated bad! But. No. It took a major balance patch targeting the exact decks that made this card bad before it was good. When predicting cards the only way to predict them that makes sense is for what you think the meta will be like in the expansion they come out in. For that, Prince Keleseth was somewhere around playable to bad. Which is what a majority of people voted. 

Sorry for those of you who voted Very good or meta-defining and are now coming back all puffed up. You were wrong in your prediction. (Unless you specifically did it with the additional prediction that it'd be bad at first, but following a balance patch hitting innervate, firey war axe, and spreading plague then it'd be good. I'd accept that as an accurate prediction...)

Quote from TheWamts >>

This is actually terrible.

Edit: because some people are incapable of basic analysis:

You can't put this in a control deck. +1/+1 on your minions when you already outvalue them doesn't do anything.

You can't put this in a midrange deck. A midrange deck that can't curve out isn't a midrange deck.

You could only ever put this in an aggro deck if you could manipulate the mulligan to always open this guy, but the whole point of playing aggro is to not rely on the mulligan since you curve low enough to not care what your opening hand is.

You could put this in a janky deck, but +1/+1 isn't enough of a bonus to make a janky deck not janky.

Quote from CheeseEtc >>

Hey guys, is it right to Coin Keleseth on turn 1 as Zoolock ?

Not sure if this is salt thread or here.  But, at least I didn't start a new thread.

I thought this card was trash on reveal.  Absolute trash.  I finally crafted it the other day because I had a Rogue Quest and having played vs. Tempo rogue a couple times it looked pretty strong.

Played about 12 games.  Mulliganed pretty hard for Keleseth.  Keeping maybe a firefly if I had one.  I played it on turn 2 once.  Turn 4 once, turn 5 once, and I don't think It was played the other 9 games.  I lost the game I played it turn 2.

Deck was too slow vs Aggro Druid and Evolve Shaman.  Deck wasn't fast enough vs. All the big Druids/Priests I was facing. Deck was utter crap.

I'm not sure what is going on, but, it sure seems like Keleseth is a shit card to me.  I have lost to it a couple times when it is Keleseth, Shadowstep, Keleseth, but, I don't know how that ever happens as I can only draw the card into my opening hand once every dozen games.

Have folks soured on this card by now?  Or am I just unlucky/terrible Rogue player?

Please do not bump old card reveal threads during the reveal of a newer expansion. 

Salt thread: http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/28947-group-therapy-need-to-blow-off-steam-mega-salty

Card Page: Prince Keleseth