I voted this card as "Bad" as it just feels like a further evolution of Blizz's thus far failed attempts to make control hunter viable. The problem is the innate hero power pushes the class towards aggro/mid-range type decks and most of the *good* hunter cards also fit that theme. This card seems good at first glance, but really that hero power is oppressively slow for the hunter. It's basically asking you to stop caring about your actual deck and play the build-a-beast game where you aren't even really getting good value. You're always -2 mana efficiency on the stats/effects. It'd almost be better if it just said "2-mana: Discover 2 beasts and add them to your hand."
I don't think anyone claiming this card is "Jaraxxus for hunters" understands how this new hero power works. You don't put the newly stitched together minion directly into play, you get it to hand. Basically, the effect works like a mini Kazakus battlecry, you discover two beasts and then literally add their Attack, Health, and Mana cost to each other and then give it any rules text either/both of the underlying minions has.
This would be insane if the meta ever slowed enough for grind-hunter to be a thing, but I can't imagine that'll ever happen; esp. for Hunter. Really what you're almost hoping for with the build-a-beast is like Rat Pack + Duskboar for a 5 mana 6/3 that deathrattles to make 6x 1/1s. Something you can actually play after spending the 2 mana initial cost and to have some level of threat. That's still not great. And to the people saying Savannah Highmane + Tundra Rhino that's literally an 11-mana minion that will be unplayable w/o coin or some sort of cheaty-effect. Again you'd be looking for like Highmane + Stonetusk Boar for a 7 mana 7/6 Charge with deathrattle make 2x 2/2 hyennas. That with the hero power is still 9 mana though.
Pretty sure it does, since Jade Claws (a weapon) triggers twice with Brann on your board, we can establish that his effect is not limited to minion's battlecries
you create a card wich is good value. But the card costs 2 more then the mana value of the 2 cards you are combining (because you have to use your heropower first). You can basically not create anything with higher mana cost then 8 on turn 10 unless you are willing to skip a turn to play it. Very SLOW. It is a good use if you have 2 excess mana tho! there are some cool combos with Stonetusk Boar and Dispatch Kodo
Man you mentioned a bad card with another bad card. Anub is garbage, like the hunter's one.
Anub was garbage because the heavy presence of Silence (before owl nerf) and because Rogue never had anything valuable to play Control. Given to a Warrior, you would have hated this card, badly.
Anub is garbage because is a 9 mana with 4 health that after the sum he will do nothing on the board and it could be simply ignored.
Having actually created a control Rogue to test anub, it actually was pretty great. The issue is that Rogue can't really hang with aggro at all and has plenty of ways to beat control already that are faster and give you a better chance against aggro. When getting Anub from Elise with either priest or warrior back in the day, it often put in a lot of work as well.
Man you mentioned a bad card with another bad card. Anub is garbage, like the hunter's one.
Anub was garbage because the heavy presence of Silence (before owl nerf) and because Rogue never had anything valuable to play Control. Given to a Warrior, you would have hated this card, badly.
Anub is garbage because is a 9 mana with 4 health that after the sum he will do nothing on the board and it could be simply ignored.
Having actually created a control Rogue to test anub, it actually was pretty great. The issue is that Rogue can't really hang with aggro at all and has plenty of ways to beat control already that are faster and give you a better chance against aggro. When getting Anub from Elise with either priest or warrior back in the day, it often put in a lot of work as well.
Yes, in same matches it is very good but only few matches. So in general is a bad card ,there are too few matches in which is good and so in general we are not allowed to insert Anub in the deck. If you see the datas Anub is played like in the 0,01% of the decks in order to let you know how bad generally is. But yes I agree with you in some matches is very good but unfortunatly there are very few of these matches. And I think that the best deck in witch could be insert is the miracle rogue (because running out of resources easily at least you have an infinite card, Lifecoach played a lot miracle with Anub.) In dedthrattle rogue is horrible, the card and the deck are too slow.
I agree pretty much with everything you said. Though I agree with a previous poster that anub could be much better in a class that actually has good control where you may be able to afford playing him without just dying. Even then though he is slow.
Control Hunter won't be a thing for the same reasons Control Rogue won't be a thing - no access to reliable and good healing and no good AOE. Except in Hunter's case, it also lacks single target removal.
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Control Hunter won't be a thing for the same reasons Control Rogue won't be a thing - no access to reliable and good healing and no good AOE. Except in Hunter's case, it also lacks single target removal.
Control Hunter in Wild has plenty of AOE and reasonable single target removal and Hunter in Wild has a hell of a time trying to beat decks like control shaman and warrior as well as basically any control deck with significant healing. Wild is also home to Reno and healbot....Maybe it'll be a thing in wild?
Control Hunter won't be a thing for the same reasons Control Rogue won't be a thing - no access to reliable and good healing and no good AOE. Except in Hunter's case, it also lacks single target removal.
Control Hunter in Wild has plenty of AOE and reasonable single target removal and Hunter in Wild has a hell of a time trying to beat decks like control shaman and warrior as well as basically any control deck with significant healing. Wild is also home to Reno and healbot....Maybe it'll be a thing in wild?
Maybe. But you don't have draw because hunter doesn't have it. I hope that he will receive something to draw. And you also don't have heavy board clear because hunter doesn't have it.
Hunter has draw, it's just not efficient or fast in any way. If Hunters had time, Stampede would work wonders for Hunters in terms of card advantage and resource generation. Deathstalker Rexxar also has a fantastic "card draw" Hero Power, but again, it needs time that Hunter currently doesn't have. And then there's the situationally useful Cult Master + Unleash the Hounds shenanigans that Hunter can be notorious for.
I think Hunter just needs healing at this point, and a Lifesteal Beast with a good statline would be an ideal place to start.
Control Hunter won't be a thing for the same reasons Control Rogue won't be a thing - no access to reliable and good healing and no good AOE. Except in Hunter's case, it also lacks single target removal.
Control Hunter in Wild has plenty of AOE and reasonable single target removal and Hunter in Wild has a hell of a time trying to beat decks like control shaman and warrior as well as basically any control deck with significant healing. Wild is also home to Reno and healbot....Maybe it'll be a thing in wild?
Maybe. But you don't have draw because hunter doesn't have it. I hope that he will receive something to draw. And you also don't have heavy board clear because hunter doesn't have it.
Hunter has draw, it's just not efficient or fast in any way. If Hunters had time, Stampede would work wonders for Hunters in terms of card advantage and resource generation. Deathstalker Rexxar also has a fantastic "card draw" Hero Power, but again, it needs time that Hunter currently doesn't have. And then there's the situationally useful Cult Master + Unleash the Hounds shenanigans that Hunter can be notorious for.
I think Hunter just needs healing at this point, and a Lifesteal Beast with a good statline would be an ideal place to start.
Eh, cult master + unleash is a 7 mana two card combo that is heavily reliant on the number of minions your opponent has. Additionally if the quality of minions that exists is good enough than you little 1/1 dogos won't do much to help the board state and at best your stuck with only three mana to actually affect the board. In reality the better control decks don't even draw a lot anymore (draw is bad in control vs control) the generate cards. THAT is where hunter is seriously lacking ALONG with heals. Honestly the would need both. The new rexxar card is pretty decent at generation but it's slow. You have to pay two more mana for whatever combination of beast you get and if you low roll you may not even get something that can affect the board state in a meaningful way. That being said if you roll high you can turn the game around and if you are a bit ahead the ability will help you stay there. It's good, but I don't think it'll be enough to push control to priest, warrior or paladin levels.
Jaraxxus for Midrange Hunter, this plus 2 Highmanes is all you'll ever need against slow match ups. The fact is comes with a consecration and 5 armor makes it playable against faster decks too.
I think much like Caverns Below people really underestimate how good constant stream of midsize minions actually is. Granted the burst potential is a lot lower but unlike a Quest Rogue you can play a typical 29 card Hunter deck plus Deathstalker so the difference often won't matter.
Control Hunter won't be a thing for the same reasons Control Rogue won't be a thing - no access to reliable and good healing and no good AOE. Except in Hunter's case, it also lacks single target removal.
Control Hunter in Wild has plenty of AOE and reasonable single target removal and Hunter in Wild has a hell of a time trying to beat decks like control shaman and warrior as well as basically any control deck with significant healing. Wild is also home to Reno and healbot....Maybe it'll be a thing in wild?
Maybe. But you don't have draw because hunter doesn't have it. I hope that he will receive something to draw. And you also don't have heavy board clear because hunter doesn't have it.
Hunter has draw, it's just not efficient or fast in any way. If Hunters had time, Stampede would work wonders for Hunters in terms of card advantage and resource generation. Deathstalker Rexxar also has a fantastic "card draw" Hero Power, but again, it needs time that Hunter currently doesn't have. And then there's the situationally useful Cult Master + Unleash the Hounds shenanigans that Hunter can be notorious for.
I think Hunter just needs healing at this point, and a Lifesteal Beast with a good statline would be an ideal place to start.
Eh, cult master + unleash is a 7 mana two card combo that is heavily reliant on the number of minions your opponent has. Additionally if the quality of minions that exists is good enough than you little 1/1 dogos won't do much to help the board state and at best your stuck with only three mana to actually affect the board. In reality the better control decks don't even draw a lot anymore (draw is bad in control vs control) the generate cards. THAT is where hunter is seriously lacking ALONG with heals. Honestly the would need both. The new rexxar card is pretty decent at generation but it's slow. You have to pay two more mana for whatever combination of beast you get and if you low roll you may not even get something that can affect the board state in a meaningful way. That being said if you roll high you can turn the game around and if you are a bit ahead the ability will help you stay there. It's good, but I don't think it'll be enough to push control to priest, warrior or paladin levels.
That's why I said situationally useful. I'm aware of Cult Master + Unleash's failings and why it isn't reliable.
Looking at the spreadsheet of possible combinations, a lot of the possible Zombeasts are adequate in the context of being generated by the equivalent of Life Tap. Even if they don't do a lot by themselves, the vast majority sport good stats without much downside (depends on the beast). Not to mention, not only are these minions customized to fit your needs at the time, they also can't be slept on and left to their own devices. Also, this leaves room for Hunter to pack removal and such when they'd otherwise be stuck cramming as many minions as possible in their deck to maintain pressure.
As for healing, the official website states that every class will be getting at least one card with the Lifesteal keyword, so we know Hunter's getting some form of healing. We also know from Un'Goro that these "build-around" legendaries will be supported by their other class cards. A 5 mana or less Beast with Lifesteal is more than likely.
Control Hunter won't be a thing for the same reasons Control Rogue won't be a thing - no access to reliable and good healing and no good AOE. Except in Hunter's case, it also lacks single target removal.
Control Hunter in Wild has plenty of AOE and reasonable single target removal and Hunter in Wild has a hell of a time trying to beat decks like control shaman and warrior as well as basically any control deck with significant healing. Wild is also home to Reno and healbot....Maybe it'll be a thing in wild?
Maybe. But you don't have draw because hunter doesn't have it. I hope that he will receive something to draw. And you also don't have heavy board clear because hunter doesn't have it.
Hunter has draw, it's just not efficient or fast in any way. If Hunters had time, Stampede would work wonders for Hunters in terms of card advantage and resource generation. Deathstalker Rexxar also has a fantastic "card draw" Hero Power, but again, it needs time that Hunter currently doesn't have. And then there's the situationally useful Cult Master + Unleash the Hounds shenanigans that Hunter can be notorious for.
I think Hunter just needs healing at this point, and a Lifesteal Beast with a good statline would be an ideal place to start.
Eh, cult master + unleash is a 7 mana two card combo that is heavily reliant on the number of minions your opponent has. Additionally if the quality of minions that exists is good enough than you little 1/1 dogos won't do much to help the board state and at best your stuck with only three mana to actually affect the board. In reality the better control decks don't even draw a lot anymore (draw is bad in control vs control) the generate cards. THAT is where hunter is seriously lacking ALONG with heals. Honestly the would need both. The new rexxar card is pretty decent at generation but it's slow. You have to pay two more mana for whatever combination of beast you get and if you low roll you may not even get something that can affect the board state in a meaningful way. That being said if you roll high you can turn the game around and if you are a bit ahead the ability will help you stay there. It's good, but I don't think it'll be enough to push control to priest, warrior or paladin levels.
That's why I said situationally useful. I'm aware of Cult Master + Unleash's failings and why it isn't reliable.
Looking at the spreadsheet of possible combinations, a lot of the possible Zombeasts are adequate in the context of being generated by the equivalent of Life Tap. Even if they don't do a lot by themselves, the vast majority sport good stats without much downside (depends on the beast). Not to mention, not only are these minions customized to fit your needs at the time, they also can't be slept on and left to their own devices. Also, this leaves room for Hunter to pack removal and such when they'd otherwise be stuck cramming as many minions as possible in their deck to maintain pressure.
As for healing, the official website states that every class will be getting at least one card with the Lifesteal keyword, so we know Hunter's getting some form of healing. We also know from Un'Goro that these "build-around" legendaries will be supported by their other class cards. A 5 mana or less Beast with Lifesteal is more than likely.
Yeah I have hopes for the lifesteal mechanic help to control hunter. But lets be realistic. Look at how much healing is in the three main removal classes. Priest has a hero power they can just jam down whenever. Warrior has TONS of armor and armor giving cards. Paladin heals even more than priest currently. Unless the lifelink minions/spells hunter gets is godlike it's gonna be rough for them still.
Honestly I foresee one of two things happening. Either Hunter gets some really solid early game control cards (maybe spells maybe just beefy 1 or 2 drop creatures) and goes for this aggressive control style where you are looking to get to late game but want to close things out way sooner than say control priest, warrior or paladin. Like turn 15 or sooner. Or Rexxar will just have to wait till later expansions to be good.
Exactly the kind of tool Hunter need to play Control. Infinite value, and unlike Anub Arak, absolutely uncounterable.
But like Anub, without some solid support tool like the good Ol' Deadly Shot and, more importantly, either Heal or massive removal, this card will not help Hunter much, because let's face it, it's abysmally bad in tempo, and most interesting beasts cost more than 5 mana. Beside than, paying 6 mana for 2 damage AOE and 5 armor and which remove your precious Hero power, ain't something, at all.
Gotta try it anyway, because I love the idea of those alternative heros. It's like playing a duo which work as a team. Lovely. And for the sake of playing a 3 mana BOAR-SNAIL of the death which kill hard (even better than hex !).
I mean, a lot of the time Anub'Arak is basically game winning against heavy control decks, and that's in Rogue, another class with basically no healing and no class taunts.
Biggest problem with Anub'Arak is just the fact that hex, poly, mind control basically lose you the game almost, especially the last one.
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Battlecry? Does this work well with Brann?
I voted this card as "Bad" as it just feels like a further evolution of Blizz's thus far failed attempts to make control hunter viable. The problem is the innate hero power pushes the class towards aggro/mid-range type decks and most of the *good* hunter cards also fit that theme. This card seems good at first glance, but really that hero power is oppressively slow for the hunter. It's basically asking you to stop caring about your actual deck and play the build-a-beast game where you aren't even really getting good value. You're always -2 mana efficiency on the stats/effects. It'd almost be better if it just said "2-mana: Discover 2 beasts and add them to your hand."
I don't think anyone claiming this card is "Jaraxxus for hunters" understands how this new hero power works. You don't put the newly stitched together minion directly into play, you get it to hand. Basically, the effect works like a mini Kazakus battlecry, you discover two beasts and then literally add their Attack, Health, and Mana cost to each other and then give it any rules text either/both of the underlying minions has.
This would be insane if the meta ever slowed enough for grind-hunter to be a thing, but I can't imagine that'll ever happen; esp. for Hunter. Really what you're almost hoping for with the build-a-beast is like Rat Pack + Duskboar for a 5 mana 6/3 that deathrattles to make 6x 1/1s. Something you can actually play after spending the 2 mana initial cost and to have some level of threat. That's still not great. And to the people saying Savannah Highmane + Tundra Rhino that's literally an 11-mana minion that will be unplayable w/o coin or some sort of cheaty-effect. Again you'd be looking for like Highmane + Stonetusk Boar for a 7 mana 7/6 Charge with deathrattle make 2x 2/2 hyennas. That with the hero power is still 9 mana though.
Balancing busted cards version 1.0.
Why wouldn't it. With Brann on board, it's a 6 mana flamestrike + 5 armor.
Pretty sure it does, since Jade Claws (a weapon) triggers twice with Brann on your board, we can establish that his effect is not limited to minion's battlecries
Playable, but mostly garbage because most of the combinations aren't good.
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I think it will be too slow.
Control Hunter is real!
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you create a card wich is good value. But the card costs 2 more then the mana value of the 2 cards you are combining (because you have to use your heropower first). You can basically not create anything with higher mana cost then 8 on turn 10 unless you are willing to skip a turn to play it. Very SLOW. It is a good use if you have 2 excess mana tho! there are some cool combos with Stonetusk Boar and Dispatch Kodo
It's a crap on my opinion
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Hey Schrute! Do you also think his intro battlecry will be: I will value you down!
Jaraxxus for Midrange Hunter, this plus 2 Highmanes is all you'll ever need against slow match ups. The fact is comes with a consecration and 5 armor makes it playable against faster decks too.
I think much like Caverns Below people really underestimate how good constant stream of midsize minions actually is. Granted the burst potential is a lot lower but unlike a Quest Rogue you can play a typical 29 card Hunter deck plus Deathstalker so the difference often won't matter.