Hearthpwn

Tier 2 in which tier system? By what criteria?

In DataReaper it is currently sitting at tier 2 and if it stays there by win rate then this nerf hasn't changed anything for control decks.

Quote from Dalinos >>

Quote from FortyDust >>

Quote from Dalinos >>

 

6) You (like me) are in the TINY minority who STILL attempt to muck about with various decks. It is getting extremely disheartening though.

 It is possible that you just can't see when your opponent is "mucking about." Even an experimental deck can look very similar to a cookie-cutter popular deck if certain key cards are never drawn. Indeed, the vast majority of innovation happens by increments rather than by throwing out everything we know to be successful and trying to reinvent the wheel with every experiment. But after enough small mutations, the end result can sometimes turn out to look very different from the original inspiration.

 Sorry bro, but changing 2-6 cards around in a 30 card deck does NOT constitute a "different deck" to me. Example at hand:

Every single mage deck at the moment is running: 2x Book, 2x Mana Wyrm, 2x Arcanologist, 4-6 secrets, 2x fireball, 2x frostbolt, 2x Arcane Intellect etc etc etc. That does not constitute "different decks". If over 20 cards are the same, it's not a different deck, merely another version of the same deck. 

Wanna hear 2 completely different decks? Pirate Warrior VS Control Warrior. Cards in common? Fiery War Axe. That's pretty much it. THOSE are 2 different decks. Not the shit you're describing.

Quote from WraithM >>

Tier 2 in which tier system? By what criteria?

In DataReaper it is currently sitting at tier 2 and if it stays there by win rate then this nerf hasn't changed anything for control decks.

Quote from swen_245 >>

For sure there are new cards coming that could have broke the quest, if not nerfed. No reason to at least wait for next meta before nerfing, like they always did. Similar toxic cards like Jade Idol has also been left untouched.

Quote from Dalinos >>

Quote from bornyhoy >>

Quote from Dalinos >>

Quote from CyberWarrior1337 >>

Quote from Dalinos >>

FINALLY! And the nerf isn't big enough. 5 minions, make em 4/4's. Now THAT would make it balanced.

Before you start saying "L2P against the deck", I've been Legend, and regulary do get Legend whenever I set my sights on it. Problem? I enjoy slow decks. And guess what this deck does?

Just as Blizz said, it DESTROYED control decks in TWO ways. 1) by its own nature, 2) by promoting so many aggro decks the game became unplayable. I should not be queueing up for an afternoon of HS and face 80% aggro and the rest Q rogue. A "Balanced and Diverse meta" is NOT the Meta where you queue up against - Pirate Warrior, token druid, token shaman, murloc paladin, hunter or whatever cancerous bullshit people decide to play. This is not diversity. This is simply aggro. Wanna know what a "Balanced and Diverse meta" is? 25% control, 25% midrange, 25% aggro 25% combo. THAT, is balanced. Seeing 10 different aggro decks is NOT balanced OR Diverse. They all try to finish the game by turn 5. Does it really matter if it's Pirates, murlocs, or Bloodlusted Totems that are killing you? Ofc not. It's the same shit with a different skin. 

Guess what Q rogue did? It was a popular deck which auto-lost to aggro. What does that mean for aggro players? WIN/WIN/WIN! They either get to queue up against a deck they automatically win against, (1st win) or they queue up in a mirror match (2nd win, fast match), or they manage to queue up to the random control player who they also destroy (3rd win). 

What does this do to people like me, who enjoy slower decks? It fucking depressed me, that's what it did. I have never been more pissed off at HS since I started playing when it was released. Auto-concede against rogue as soon as they play the Q (miracle is fine, at least it takes some brains) simply cause I refused to put myself through that ordeal. 

I miss the days when Chillwind Yeti was the best thing you could play on turn 4. 

 You actually confirmed, that QR is not the problem, but aggro decks which destroy QR and control at the same time (and combo).

 Yes, aggro decks are the problem, for our un-fun un-diverse meta. But quest rogue was a) another deck which, as a control/slower player is simply disgusting to play against and b) increased the amount of aggro decks. Hence, by reducing Q rogue, you allow slower decks to shine, and also reduce the amount of people who play aggro, since they can now play their slower decks and not get demolished by Q-rogue. 

Wanna hear a fun fact?

Whenever I play (note, this includes both winning and losing) against a cancer deck (in this context, cancer is defined as Q rogue or any deck that tries to finish the game by turns 4/5/6), I always add my opponent after the game, regardless of outcome. I add them to simply, politely ask them why they are playing the deck they are. 

The results of this survey? About a quarter just troll me and tell me to "git gud", so fuck those retards. A quarter tells me they just want to hit X rank, and this Y cancer deck is the best to do so. Another quarter tells me that they are newer players, and want to play slower decks but cannot afford them. The last quarter tells me they never play aggro decks, they just got sick & tired of losing against cancer so in order to have some fighting chance they switched to cancer, and I was just the unlucky guy who queued up against them.

Guess which answer is missing? The one that says "I ACTUALLY ENJOY PLAYING THIS DECK". The times people have told me "I actually really like playing Y deck" are countable on the fingers of ONE hand. That, is a problem. Noone is playing this game to enjoy themselves anymore. I have 9,800+ wins casual/ranked and 8800+ wins in Arena - I do not care if I win or lose, this is not salt. I've hit Legend and won enough times to not care about a game's outcome, but a game's...game. I want to enjoy the game by playing the cards in my deck and having to put thought into playing around, reading my opponent's hands etc. This does not happen when you're dead by turn 5. 

I pulled a Golden N'zoth from a pack during WOTOG, and I simply CANNOT play him in Standard because of all the cancer. I do play him in my new-and-improved Wild No-Quest Control Warrior, and I can assure you all, Wild is getting better and better. So many sets are out that 90% of Wild decks have close to 0 RNG in them.

THAT, is the key problem in this game. People set goals and don't play for fun, they play for results. In a card game. Online. With no tangible rewards or tangible cards, unless you're a pro or streamer. Seriously people, get a grip.

 

 

 If you really added every player that played a "cancer deck" by your definition, I really don't know why you're still playing HS. Honestly, all you did was go on peoples nerves, just because you didn't like the deck they were playing...... and then you call them retards? Come on, wtf?!

 Go on people's nerves? Wtf are you on about? I simply asked them, politely, why they play the deck they are playing. Done. Nothing more, nothing less. It was an attempt to see WHY people decide to play the decks that, on the forums, EVERYONE seems to hate. This is bad why exactly?

Read the entirety of the post. Me collecting data is "getting on people's nerves"? The fact practically NOONE answers "because I really enjoy this deck" proves my point - people play for results, not fun, even if what they are playing is boring/annoying/not their style. In a GAME. 

Quote from swen_245 >>

Quote from SchruteBucks >>

Quote from swen_245 >>

For sure there are new cards coming that could have broke the quest, if not nerfed. No reason to at least wait for next meta before nerfing, like they always did. Similar toxic cards like Jade Idol has also been left untouched.

 There is no rational argument against Jade Idol. 

 There is the same argument that has been made now for Caverns Below: it beats control 100% of the time and forces the meta to react.

Quote from janhorak2000 >>

There actually is. Deck with infinite cards is broken by itself, not mentioning these cards are 1 mana 10/10+ and with so many drawing tools it is just as sick as Rogue Quest. Maybe slightly less. But both cards are in category "Biggest design failures in Hearthstone history"

Quote from janhorak2000 >>

There actually is. Deck with infinite cards is broken by itself, not mentioning these cards are 1 mana 10/10+ and with so many drawing tools it is just as sick as Rogue Quest. Maybe slightly less. But both cards are in category "Biggest design failures in Hearthstone history"

I think this nerf is bad and unecessary, but the most funny thing is how people were talking poorly of Caverns Below back in Un'Goro's spoilers.

It will keep praying on slower decks, while getting even more punished by aggro decks. We could say they simply killed the single scenario where Quest Rogue players needed to use their brain, which was against aggro.

Quote from SchruteBucks >>

Quote from WraithM >>

Tier 2 in which tier system? By what criteria?

In DataReaper it is currently sitting at tier 2 and if it stays there by win rate then this nerf hasn't changed anything for control decks.

 I'm implying that the entire nature of the deck will have to change - it cannot rely on turn 5 Caverns into turn 6 (or later) 20+ burst damage, because it will need to replace stuff like Stonetusk with more bounces.  Since a vanilla 5/5 for cheap will probably not be good enough on turn 7+, it will have to make use of cards that generate some other kind of value.  The deck will not be  a "complete the quest and win the game" deck anymore.  

Quote from Dalinos >>

 Sorry bro, but changing 2-6 cards around in a 30 card deck does NOT constitute a "different deck" to me. Example at hand:

Every single mage deck at the moment is running: 2x Book, 2x Mana Wyrm, 2x Arcanologist, 4-6 secrets, 2x fireball, 2x frostbolt, 2x Arcane Intellect etc etc etc. That does not constitute "different decks". If over 20 cards are the same, it's not a different deck, merely another version of the same deck. 

Wanna hear 2 completely different decks? Pirate Warrior VS Control Warrior. Cards in common? Fiery War Axe. That's pretty much it. THOSE are 2 different decks. Not the shit you're describing.

Quote from bornyhoy >>

Quote from Dalinos >>

Quote from bornyhoy >>

Quote from Dalinos >>

Quote from CyberWarrior1337 >>

Quote from Dalinos >>

FINALLY! And the nerf isn't big enough. 5 minions, make em 4/4's. Now THAT would make it balanced.

Before you start saying "L2P against the deck", I've been Legend, and regulary do get Legend whenever I set my sights on it. Problem? I enjoy slow decks. And guess what this deck does?

Just as Blizz said, it DESTROYED control decks in TWO ways. 1) by its own nature, 2) by promoting so many aggro decks the game became unplayable. I should not be queueing up for an afternoon of HS and face 80% aggro and the rest Q rogue. A "Balanced and Diverse meta" is NOT the Meta where you queue up against - Pirate Warrior, token druid, token shaman, murloc paladin, hunter or whatever cancerous bullshit people decide to play. This is not diversity. This is simply aggro. Wanna know what a "Balanced and Diverse meta" is? 25% control, 25% midrange, 25% aggro 25% combo. THAT, is balanced. Seeing 10 different aggro decks is NOT balanced OR Diverse. They all try to finish the game by turn 5. Does it really matter if it's Pirates, murlocs, or Bloodlusted Totems that are killing you? Ofc not. It's the same shit with a different skin. 

Guess what Q rogue did? It was a popular deck which auto-lost to aggro. What does that mean for aggro players? WIN/WIN/WIN! They either get to queue up against a deck they automatically win against, (1st win) or they queue up in a mirror match (2nd win, fast match), or they manage to queue up to the random control player who they also destroy (3rd win). 

What does this do to people like me, who enjoy slower decks? It fucking depressed me, that's what it did. I have never been more pissed off at HS since I started playing when it was released. Auto-concede against rogue as soon as they play the Q (miracle is fine, at least it takes some brains) simply cause I refused to put myself through that ordeal. 

I miss the days when Chillwind Yeti was the best thing you could play on turn 4. 

 You actually confirmed, that QR is not the problem, but aggro decks which destroy QR and control at the same time (and combo).

 Yes, aggro decks are the problem, for our un-fun un-diverse meta. But quest rogue was a) another deck which, as a control/slower player is simply disgusting to play against and b) increased the amount of aggro decks. Hence, by reducing Q rogue, you allow slower decks to shine, and also reduce the amount of people who play aggro, since they can now play their slower decks and not get demolished by Q-rogue. 

Wanna hear a fun fact?

Whenever I play (note, this includes both winning and losing) against a cancer deck (in this context, cancer is defined as Q rogue or any deck that tries to finish the game by turns 4/5/6), I always add my opponent after the game, regardless of outcome. I add them to simply, politely ask them why they are playing the deck they are. 

The results of this survey? About a quarter just troll me and tell me to "git gud", so fuck those retards. A quarter tells me they just want to hit X rank, and this Y cancer deck is the best to do so. Another quarter tells me that they are newer players, and want to play slower decks but cannot afford them. The last quarter tells me they never play aggro decks, they just got sick & tired of losing against cancer so in order to have some fighting chance they switched to cancer, and I was just the unlucky guy who queued up against them.

Guess which answer is missing? The one that says "I ACTUALLY ENJOY PLAYING THIS DECK". The times people have told me "I actually really like playing Y deck" are countable on the fingers of ONE hand. That, is a problem. Noone is playing this game to enjoy themselves anymore. I have 9,800+ wins casual/ranked and 8800+ wins in Arena - I do not care if I win or lose, this is not salt. I've hit Legend and won enough times to not care about a game's outcome, but a game's...game. I want to enjoy the game by playing the cards in my deck and having to put thought into playing around, reading my opponent's hands etc. This does not happen when you're dead by turn 5. 

I pulled a Golden N'zoth from a pack during WOTOG, and I simply CANNOT play him in Standard because of all the cancer. I do play him in my new-and-improved Wild No-Quest Control Warrior, and I can assure you all, Wild is getting better and better. So many sets are out that 90% of Wild decks have close to 0 RNG in them.

THAT, is the key problem in this game. People set goals and don't play for fun, they play for results. In a card game. Online. With no tangible rewards or tangible cards, unless you're a pro or streamer. Seriously people, get a grip.

 

 

 If you really added every player that played a "cancer deck" by your definition, I really don't know why you're still playing HS. Honestly, all you did was go on peoples nerves, just because you didn't like the deck they were playing...... and then you call them retards? Come on, wtf?!

 Go on people's nerves? Wtf are you on about? I simply asked them, politely, why they play the deck they are playing. Done. Nothing more, nothing less. It was an attempt to see WHY people decide to play the decks that, on the forums, EVERYONE seems to hate. This is bad why exactly?

Read the entirety of the post. Me collecting data is "getting on people's nerves"? The fact practically NOONE answers "because I really enjoy this deck" proves my point - people play for results, not fun, even if what they are playing is boring/annoying/not their style. In a GAME. 

Lol, you seem to be the salt impersonated mate. Calm down  adding someone and ask "why do you play this deck". Sound's more like you just want to roast the player. Also, you answering in such a "salty-tone" and proceeding to rant about aggro just tilts you. Chill the fuck down and stop hating aggro decks, just because you dislike the archtype. Quest Rogue is/was a T2/3 deck, the nerf is harsh and will kill the deck

Quote from Yuusukeseru >>

And a 1 mana 5/5 Charge that can be bounced back and played two or three times is not fun. 

But against Control it will be still the same ...

Quote from WraithM >>

Quote from SchruteBucks >>

Quote from WraithM >>

Tier 2 in which tier system? By what criteria?

In DataReaper it is currently sitting at tier 2 and if it stays there by win rate then this nerf hasn't changed anything for control decks.

 I'm implying that the entire nature of the deck will have to change - it cannot rely on turn 5 Caverns into turn 6 (or later) 20+ burst damage, because it will need to replace stuff like Stonetusk with more bounces.  Since a vanilla 5/5 for cheap will probably not be good enough on turn 7+, it will have to make use of cards that generate some other kind of value.  The deck will not be  a "complete the quest and win the game" deck anymore.  

 For sure, it will have to change but to compete as midrange deck it will have to find a way to fit in minions that can exceed the 5/5 stat line such as the Finja water package murlocs or become a dragon deck with the remaining 4 cost Drake's in standard that buff themselves by the amount of cards in your hand. Adding more bounce isn't possible, the current lists already run double Shadowstep, ferryman, and brewmaster. Diluting the deck further for even more bounce outside of Vanish likely wouldn't be worth it. A back up or new primary win condition is likely necessary after this Nerf. Will be interested to see what people come up with.

Quote from SchruteBucks >>

Quote from WraithM >>

 For sure, it will have to change but to compete as midrange deck it will have to find a way to fit in minions that can exceed the 5/5 stat line such as the Finja water package murlocs or become a dragon deck with the remaining 4 cost Drake's in standard that buff themselves by the amount of cards in your hand. Adding more bounce isn't possible, the current lists already run double Shadowstep, ferryman, and brewmaster. Diluting the deck further for even more bounce outside of Vanish likely wouldn't be worth it. A back up or new primary win condition is likely necessary after this Nerf. Will be interested to see what people come up with.

 You could also use Crystal Core defensively, to 'heal' your minions back to 5 health. 

You know what I think is coming ?

Next expansion will contain another bounce card or another way to complete the quest.

Making the quest needing 5 minions instead of 4 will slowdown the quest for sure (probably enough to push quest rogue out of ladder), but a bif problem of quest rogue can be getting a hand full of minion and waiting to topdeck the last bounce. Having another way to bounce the minion or play a copy would reduce the number of minion with charge card possible to stick in the deck while increasing consistency and and still slowing the deck (even if you have the card to bounce you still need to have the mana)

Really hope that the case, even if I don't play the deck myself the idea and play style was really interesting

Blizzard has wanted a Bounce archetype to exist for awhile now, so there is a chance they'll do something more for it in the future.

As someone who is forever salty about Quest Rouge, I appreciate the effort in nerfing this, although I feel as if it is still too strong.  Especially when compared to some of the other quest rewards.

But if they were to change it too much, it wouldn't even be the same quest anymore, I suppose.

Quote from Sheena314 >>

As someone who is forever salty about Quest Rouge, I appreciate the effort in nerfing this, although I feel as if it is still too strong.  Especially when compared to some of the other quest rewards.

But if they were to change it too much, it wouldn't even be the same quest anymore, I suppose.

Yeah, we're gonna see some new bounce stuff probably, which is cool, might introduce some slower QR types or a different archetype.