I don't think they're necessarily being dishonest by not addressing the unfun portion of the card, because I think it's really just too polarized of a field of opinions; I'm actually someone who thinks it's a really sweet card and that it's genuinely a good deck to have for Roguespell-using players, but others obviously feel basically the complete opposite from that. What everyone can agree on is probably how awful it tends to feel as even a mildly slow decka minion-based deck against it, which I do think this change should help.
With only two minor changes, you have described the Yogg-Saron nerf to a T. The difference is, they were very upfront about nerfing Yogg primarily due to public opinion and Blizzard's esports image. Yogg's actual win-rate was very much in line with other 10-drops of that era, but they nerfed it because too many people said it "felt bad."
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Honestly, I'd rather see the cost of Crystal Core increased instead. I was really hoping to be able to create a control deck with The Caverns Below, but now you'd need too many garbage cards to truly make it work. I did, and still do, love the concept of this card, but can't believe the devs didn't see the charge exploit of this card. Oh well....
All that was needed is to make it a minion: 5 mana 5/5 battlecry summon the crystal core. Crystal core is then an indestructible totem like warlock quest.
This would 1) require two open minion spaces on board to play 2) occupy one space on board at all times 3) remove insane interaction with preparation.
The concession in exchange is a "free" minion.
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Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
@definatelynotsalty, that is certainly a possible solution as opposed to increased mana cost. I think either would have been better to keep The Caverns Below relevant than the nerf that Blizzard decided on. I think it's a shame. It was a card with a lot of potential....
ITT: People still think it will be playable after nerf. LULZ. 1 game after this nerf goes live, people will realize the deck is completely and utterly destroyed, garbage, shite tier, worthless.
FINALLY! And the nerf isn't big enough. 5 minions, make em 4/4's. Now THAT would make it balanced.
Before you start saying "L2P against the deck", I've been Legend, and regulary do get Legend whenever I set my sights on it. Problem? I enjoy slow decks. And guess what this deck does?
Just as Blizz said, it DESTROYED control decks in TWO ways. 1) by its own nature, 2) by promoting so many aggro decks the game became unplayable. I should not be queueing up for an afternoon of HS and face 80% aggro and the rest Q rogue. A "Balanced and Diverse meta" is NOT the Meta where you queue up against - Pirate Warrior, token druid, token shaman, murloc paladin, hunter or whatever cancerous bullshit people decide to play. This is not diversity. This is simply aggro. Wanna know what a "Balanced and Diverse meta" is? 25% control, 25% midrange, 25% aggro 25% combo. THAT, is balanced. Seeing 10 different aggro decks is NOT balanced OR Diverse. They all try to finish the game by turn 5. Does it really matter if it's Pirates, murlocs, or Bloodlusted Totems that are killing you? Ofc not. It's the same shit with a different skin.
Guess what Q rogue did? It was a popular deck which auto-lost to aggro. What does that mean for aggro players? WIN/WIN/WIN! They either get to queue up against a deck they automatically win against, (1st win) or they queue up in a mirror match (2nd win, fast match), or they manage to queue up to the random control player who they also destroy (3rd win).
What does this do to people like me, who enjoy slower decks? It fucking depressed me, that's what it did. I have never been more pissed off at HS since I started playing when it was released. Auto-concede against rogue as soon as they play the Q (miracle is fine, at least it takes some brains) simply cause I refused to put myself through that ordeal.
I miss the days when Chillwind Yeti was the best thing you could play on turn 4.
For all of those saying this nerf was "needed" or "not needed" remember that Blizz literally told us Quests were designed to be finished midway through the game to give some huge tempo swinging effect [PARAPHRASING], therefore they were designed to be midrange type decks, with the only difference being its requirements. The fact that QR is just Speed Racer to T3-6 or bust is absolutely NOT what was supposed to happen
During the first turns quest rogue does nothing in respect to the board... Afterwards they clean the board and start hitting the face... It feels like a mtg combo deck. So in my oppinion a viable deck should either kill it in the rogues first phase transitioning in its second or it should create a board where the rogue player needs a lot if ressources to fight back. If the deck can't then it is just not good enough...
The meta is not defined by rogue quest!
So nerving this card will just kill diversity. I really dont like the nerf since it just vanishes an archetype of deck.
It remembers me a lot to the grim patron nerf which was just needles!
I also lost to quest rogue but i also won against. But i never had the request of a nerf because i saw them:
- Defining the meta
- performing very well
Read my above reply. It wasn't the retardedness of the quest rogue deck per se, but the fact that the WHOLE META switched to AGGRO in order to counter it properly, because it insta-lost to aggro.
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Level 60: All classes Golden Classes: Druid, Mage, Shaman, Paladin, Warrior Highest rank: Legend, 52 (EU, obviously) Best arena: 12-0
not a good nerf. it forces QR to be played in a more midrange style. However, it now can be outraced more easily, and it forces QR to play more subpar cards to meet the condition.
Only way this is ok is if QR gets more support next expansion. otherwise its dead. Jade Idol needs a nerf too, and other quests need to be buffed (pally) or given support (warlock, hunter)
First,i appreciated this nerf and it isnt late like many people said . Meta usually need 1-2 month to settle so changing after 3 month is acceptable
Second,i dont think Quest Rogue will disappear .Quest Rogue already have bad matchup against every aggro deck but vs slow deck (control/combo) the real problem is no one have enough AoE to deal with a huge board every turn,now you can survive 1-2 more turns but result still same : you use Dragonfire to clear 20/20 board but right after it they develope another 20/20 board (or maybe more) and what you can do now,topdeck second Dragonfire ?
Going to be unplayable? Hell, I hope so. It'll join 7 of the 8 other quests. Horrible design from the start. Match-ups should be far more heavily weighted on how you play, not 70/30s across the board based on what deck is queued up. The decision to make it immune to silence and transform effects and to give the buff to tokens, and not limit minion type required or given the reward, and let it be Prepped out...that was just reckless - limiting ability to interact is a huge red flag and this one was full of them.
For all of those saying this nerf was "needed" or "not needed" remember that Blizz literally told us Quests were designed to be finished midway through the game to give some huge tempo swinging effect [PARAPHRASING], therefore they were designed to be midrange type decks, with the only difference being its requirements. The fact that QR is just Speed Racer to T3-6 or bust is absolutely NOT what was supposed to happen
So the QA guys are fucking idiots then, because as soon as I saw the quest I knew how it was going to play out. it's way too easy to get it done by turn 4. I find it baffling that the devs and the rest of us are playing the same game
For all of those saying this nerf was "needed" or "not needed" remember that Blizz literally told us Quests were designed to be finished midway through the game to give some huge tempo swinging effect [PARAPHRASING], therefore they were designed to be midrange type decks, with the only difference being its requirements. The fact that QR is just Speed Racer to T3-6 or bust is absolutely NOT what was supposed to happen
So the QA guys are fucking idiots then, because as soon as I saw the quest I knew how it was going to play out. it's way too easy to get it done by turn 4. I find it baffling that the devs and the rest of us are playing the same game
The quest rogue deck recipe doesn't include brewmasters and includes thistle tea. So yeah, the devs have no idea what they're doing
Blizzard is just too slow, lumbering in their responses. The nerf for this was obviously necessary after a week or two. Now it's not even played that often because of he prevalence of hyper aggro decks and the clunky, polarized meta. I'm going to dust this (even though I never dust legendaries) and make something else, not because quest rogue will be unplayable, just because I got bored of it a long while back.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Eh, the problem is not that the minions are 5/5, the problems is that 1 cost minions with charge are 5/5 that can be bounced back after they hit face.
Gorge you hatred, embrace your rage.
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
@definatelynotsalty, that is certainly a possible solution as opposed to increased mana cost. I think either would have been better to keep The Caverns Below relevant than the nerf that Blizzard decided on. I think it's a shame. It was a card with a lot of potential....
ITT: People still think it will be playable after nerf. LULZ. 1 game after this nerf goes live, people will realize the deck is completely and utterly destroyed, garbage, shite tier, worthless.
GG blizz, well played(?).
Ibn Fahd.
Still has the advantage over most control decks, more aggro decks will win though than now.
Thanks for the 3200 dust
Check out my fun evolve decks
Evolve C'thun: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/743008-evolve-cthun
Evolve Jade: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/753851-evolve-jade
Evolve Elemental: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/813707-evolve-elemental
FINALLY! And the nerf isn't big enough. 5 minions, make em 4/4's. Now THAT would make it balanced.
Before you start saying "L2P against the deck", I've been Legend, and regulary do get Legend whenever I set my sights on it. Problem? I enjoy slow decks. And guess what this deck does?
Just as Blizz said, it DESTROYED control decks in TWO ways. 1) by its own nature, 2) by promoting so many aggro decks the game became unplayable. I should not be queueing up for an afternoon of HS and face 80% aggro and the rest Q rogue. A "Balanced and Diverse meta" is NOT the Meta where you queue up against - Pirate Warrior, token druid, token shaman, murloc paladin, hunter or whatever cancerous bullshit people decide to play. This is not diversity. This is simply aggro. Wanna know what a "Balanced and Diverse meta" is? 25% control, 25% midrange, 25% aggro 25% combo. THAT, is balanced. Seeing 10 different aggro decks is NOT balanced OR Diverse. They all try to finish the game by turn 5. Does it really matter if it's Pirates, murlocs, or Bloodlusted Totems that are killing you? Ofc not. It's the same shit with a different skin.
Guess what Q rogue did? It was a popular deck which auto-lost to aggro. What does that mean for aggro players? WIN/WIN/WIN! They either get to queue up against a deck they automatically win against, (1st win) or they queue up in a mirror match (2nd win, fast match), or they manage to queue up to the random control player who they also destroy (3rd win).
What does this do to people like me, who enjoy slower decks? It fucking depressed me, that's what it did. I have never been more pissed off at HS since I started playing when it was released. Auto-concede against rogue as soon as they play the Q (miracle is fine, at least it takes some brains) simply cause I refused to put myself through that ordeal.
I miss the days when Chillwind Yeti was the best thing you could play on turn 4.
Level 60: All classes
Golden Classes: Druid, Mage, Shaman, Paladin, Warrior
Highest rank: Legend, 52 (EU, obviously)
Best arena: 12-0
For all of those saying this nerf was "needed" or "not needed" remember that Blizz literally told us Quests were designed to be finished midway through the game to give some huge tempo swinging effect [PARAPHRASING], therefore they were designed to be midrange type decks, with the only difference being its requirements. The fact that QR is just Speed Racer to T3-6 or bust is absolutely NOT what was supposed to happen
Level 60: All classes
Golden Classes: Druid, Mage, Shaman, Paladin, Warrior
Highest rank: Legend, 52 (EU, obviously)
Best arena: 12-0
not a good nerf. it forces QR to be played in a more midrange style. However, it now can be outraced more easily, and it forces QR to play more subpar cards to meet the condition.
Only way this is ok is if QR gets more support next expansion. otherwise its dead. Jade Idol needs a nerf too, and other quests need to be buffed (pally) or given support (warlock, hunter)
First,i appreciated this nerf and it isnt late like many people said . Meta usually need 1-2 month to settle so changing after 3 month is acceptable
Second,i dont think Quest Rogue will disappear .Quest Rogue already have bad matchup against every aggro deck but vs slow deck (control/combo) the real problem is no one have enough AoE to deal with a huge board every turn,now you can survive 1-2 more turns but result still same : you use Dragonfire to clear 20/20 board but right after it they develope another 20/20 board (or maybe more) and what you can do now,topdeck second Dragonfire ?
Going to be unplayable? Hell, I hope so. It'll join 7 of the 8 other quests. Horrible design from the start. Match-ups should be far more heavily weighted on how you play, not 70/30s across the board based on what deck is queued up. The decision to make it immune to silence and transform effects and to give the buff to tokens, and not limit minion type required or given the reward, and let it be Prepped out...that was just reckless - limiting ability to interact is a huge red flag and this one was full of them.
CCGing since '98.
Seriously all they had to change was make all charge cards like the devilsaur...
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
Blizzard is just too slow, lumbering in their responses. The nerf for this was obviously necessary after a week or two. Now it's not even played that often because of he prevalence of hyper aggro decks and the clunky, polarized meta. I'm going to dust this (even though I never dust legendaries) and make something else, not because quest rogue will be unplayable, just because I got bored of it a long while back.