Hearthpwn

Quote from DiamondDM13>>

When I saw the card I assumed it was going to be a Quest played on turn 7 or 8, and mostly seals the game after that. To my surprise, and clearly to Blizzards surprise aswell, it has been so optimized that that turn 7/8 has actually changed to 4/5, a point in the game at which 5/5 chargers are not okay, so they nerfed the card to reflect this. As it stands, we will still be facing 5/5 chargers, but they come later in the game, which is okay. It doesn't destroy the deck, it slows it down, which makes perfect sense, it brings the Reward timing in line with it's power.

I remember getting told I was bad when I said most of the time I completed the quest around turns 7, 8, and 9 with a heavier version. I guess I can tell them I was playing it the way Blizzard intended.

Quote from Ogobum >>

Based on my ladder experience on several accounts in the 15-20 range, the problem appears to be the sheer number of new players who gravitated to this deck.  A lot of beginners do well with it because it is possibly the most forgiving deck as far as misplays go.  Don't know how to trade?  Does tempo confuse you? Not sure what removal the opponent may run?  No problem, just complete the quest and you're golden.   Well, what happens when they print a 3/3 version of Swamp King Dred and shitcan the build next expansion?  Can you imagine when someone posts that thread here 'What can I play now that QR is dead?'   Blizz will lose a lot of players if there is suddenly no deck they can run and then they get savaged when asking for help

TLDR: QR was like crack for new players but will ultimately fail them as the meta shifts.

Quote from calli1982>>

Im kinda curious if someone will make it work after the nerf with a more traditional rogue approach. I dont think a deck that isnt going all in on the low mana high value minion build (like quest rogue is right now) is going to be competitive but i will be more than happy if someone proves me wrong in the upcoming weeks.

I would be happy to see this, too. I did a lot of experimenting looking for different minions that had good synergy with the quest reward but the tempo loss is so large (esp. after this change) that not running cheap chargers is an ill-advised handicap.

Quote from Dalinos >>

Quote from CyberWarrior1337 >>

Quote from Dalinos >>

FINALLY! And the nerf isn't big enough. 5 minions, make em 4/4's. Now THAT would make it balanced.

Before you start saying "L2P against the deck", I've been Legend, and regulary do get Legend whenever I set my sights on it. Problem? I enjoy slow decks. And guess what this deck does?

Just as Blizz said, it DESTROYED control decks in TWO ways. 1) by its own nature, 2) by promoting so many aggro decks the game became unplayable. I should not be queueing up for an afternoon of HS and face 80% aggro and the rest Q rogue. A "Balanced and Diverse meta" is NOT the Meta where you queue up against - Pirate Warrior, token druid, token shaman, murloc paladin, hunter or whatever cancerous bullshit people decide to play. This is not diversity. This is simply aggro. Wanna know what a "Balanced and Diverse meta" is? 25% control, 25% midrange, 25% aggro 25% combo. THAT, is balanced. Seeing 10 different aggro decks is NOT balanced OR Diverse. They all try to finish the game by turn 5. Does it really matter if it's Pirates, murlocs, or Bloodlusted Totems that are killing you? Ofc not. It's the same shit with a different skin. 

Guess what Q rogue did? It was a popular deck which auto-lost to aggro. What does that mean for aggro players? WIN/WIN/WIN! They either get to queue up against a deck they automatically win against, (1st win) or they queue up in a mirror match (2nd win, fast match), or they manage to queue up to the random control player who they also destroy (3rd win). 

What does this do to people like me, who enjoy slower decks? It fucking depressed me, that's what it did. I have never been more pissed off at HS since I started playing when it was released. Auto-concede against rogue as soon as they play the Q (miracle is fine, at least it takes some brains) simply cause I refused to put myself through that ordeal. 

I miss the days when Chillwind Yeti was the best thing you could play on turn 4. 

 You actually confirmed, that QR is not the problem, but aggro decks which destroy QR and control at the same time (and combo).

 Yes, aggro decks are the problem, for our un-fun un-diverse meta. But quest rogue was a) another deck which, as a control/slower player is simply disgusting to play against and b) increased the amount of aggro decks. Hence, by reducing Q rogue, you allow slower decks to shine, and also reduce the amount of people who play aggro, since they can now play their slower decks and not get demolished by Q-rogue. 

Wanna hear a fun fact?

Whenever I play (note, this includes both winning and losing) against a cancer deck (in this context, cancer is defined as Q rogue or any deck that tries to finish the game by turns 4/5/6), I always add my opponent after the game, regardless of outcome. I add them to simply, politely ask them why they are playing the deck they are. 

The results of this survey? About a quarter just troll me and tell me to "git gud", so fuck those retards. A quarter tells me they just want to hit X rank, and this Y cancer deck is the best to do so. Another quarter tells me that they are newer players, and want to play slower decks but cannot afford them. The last quarter tells me they never play aggro decks, they just got sick & tired of losing against cancer so in order to have some fighting chance they switched to cancer, and I was just the unlucky guy who queued up against them.

Guess which answer is missing? The one that says "I ACTUALLY ENJOY PLAYING THIS DECK". The times people have told me "I actually really like playing Y deck" are countable on the fingers of ONE hand. That, is a problem. Noone is playing this game to enjoy themselves anymore. I have 9,800+ wins casual/ranked and 8800+ wins in Arena - I do not care if I win or lose, this is not salt. I've hit Legend and won enough times to not care about a game's outcome, but a game's...game. I want to enjoy the game by playing the cards in my deck and having to put thought into playing around, reading my opponent's hands etc. This does not happen when you're dead by turn 5. 

I pulled a Golden N'zoth from a pack during WOTOG, and I simply CANNOT play him in Standard because of all the cancer. I do play him in my new-and-improved Wild No-Quest Control Warrior, and I can assure you all, Wild is getting better and better. So many sets are out that 90% of Wild decks have close to 0 RNG in them.

THAT, is the key problem in this game. People set goals and don't play for fun, they play for results. In a card game. Online. With no tangible rewards or tangible cards, unless you're a pro or streamer. Seriously people, get a grip.

 

 

Quote from bornyhoy >>

Quote from Dalinos >>

Quote from CyberWarrior1337 >>

Quote from Dalinos >>

FINALLY! And the nerf isn't big enough. 5 minions, make em 4/4's. Now THAT would make it balanced.

Before you start saying "L2P against the deck", I've been Legend, and regulary do get Legend whenever I set my sights on it. Problem? I enjoy slow decks. And guess what this deck does?

Just as Blizz said, it DESTROYED control decks in TWO ways. 1) by its own nature, 2) by promoting so many aggro decks the game became unplayable. I should not be queueing up for an afternoon of HS and face 80% aggro and the rest Q rogue. A "Balanced and Diverse meta" is NOT the Meta where you queue up against - Pirate Warrior, token druid, token shaman, murloc paladin, hunter or whatever cancerous bullshit people decide to play. This is not diversity. This is simply aggro. Wanna know what a "Balanced and Diverse meta" is? 25% control, 25% midrange, 25% aggro 25% combo. THAT, is balanced. Seeing 10 different aggro decks is NOT balanced OR Diverse. They all try to finish the game by turn 5. Does it really matter if it's Pirates, murlocs, or Bloodlusted Totems that are killing you? Ofc not. It's the same shit with a different skin. 

Guess what Q rogue did? It was a popular deck which auto-lost to aggro. What does that mean for aggro players? WIN/WIN/WIN! They either get to queue up against a deck they automatically win against, (1st win) or they queue up in a mirror match (2nd win, fast match), or they manage to queue up to the random control player who they also destroy (3rd win). 

What does this do to people like me, who enjoy slower decks? It fucking depressed me, that's what it did. I have never been more pissed off at HS since I started playing when it was released. Auto-concede against rogue as soon as they play the Q (miracle is fine, at least it takes some brains) simply cause I refused to put myself through that ordeal. 

I miss the days when Chillwind Yeti was the best thing you could play on turn 4. 

 You actually confirmed, that QR is not the problem, but aggro decks which destroy QR and control at the same time (and combo).

 Yes, aggro decks are the problem, for our un-fun un-diverse meta. But quest rogue was a) another deck which, as a control/slower player is simply disgusting to play against and b) increased the amount of aggro decks. Hence, by reducing Q rogue, you allow slower decks to shine, and also reduce the amount of people who play aggro, since they can now play their slower decks and not get demolished by Q-rogue. 

Wanna hear a fun fact?

Whenever I play (note, this includes both winning and losing) against a cancer deck (in this context, cancer is defined as Q rogue or any deck that tries to finish the game by turns 4/5/6), I always add my opponent after the game, regardless of outcome. I add them to simply, politely ask them why they are playing the deck they are. 

The results of this survey? About a quarter just troll me and tell me to "git gud", so fuck those retards. A quarter tells me they just want to hit X rank, and this Y cancer deck is the best to do so. Another quarter tells me that they are newer players, and want to play slower decks but cannot afford them. The last quarter tells me they never play aggro decks, they just got sick & tired of losing against cancer so in order to have some fighting chance they switched to cancer, and I was just the unlucky guy who queued up against them.

Guess which answer is missing? The one that says "I ACTUALLY ENJOY PLAYING THIS DECK". The times people have told me "I actually really like playing Y deck" are countable on the fingers of ONE hand. That, is a problem. Noone is playing this game to enjoy themselves anymore. I have 9,800+ wins casual/ranked and 8800+ wins in Arena - I do not care if I win or lose, this is not salt. I've hit Legend and won enough times to not care about a game's outcome, but a game's...game. I want to enjoy the game by playing the cards in my deck and having to put thought into playing around, reading my opponent's hands etc. This does not happen when you're dead by turn 5. 

I pulled a Golden N'zoth from a pack during WOTOG, and I simply CANNOT play him in Standard because of all the cancer. I do play him in my new-and-improved Wild No-Quest Control Warrior, and I can assure you all, Wild is getting better and better. So many sets are out that 90% of Wild decks have close to 0 RNG in them.

THAT, is the key problem in this game. People set goals and don't play for fun, they play for results. In a card game. Online. With no tangible rewards or tangible cards, unless you're a pro or streamer. Seriously people, get a grip.

 

 

 If you really added every player that played a "cancer deck" by your definition, I really don't know why you're still playing HS. Honestly, all you did was go on peoples nerves, just because you didn't like the deck they were playing...... and then you call them retards? Come on, wtf?!

This is a timid or soft nerf at best.

Will we get full dust refund value for the quest as it is being nerfed? Has it been confirmed?

Quote from bornyhoy >>

 

 

 If you really added every player that played a "cancer deck" by your definition, I really don't know why you're still playing HS. Honestly, all you did was go on peoples nerves, just because you didn't like the deck they were playing...... and then you call them retards? Come on, wtf?!

Quote from Modding >>

Will we get full dust refund value for the quest as it is being nerfed? Has it been confirmed?

Quote from exothos >>

This is a timid or soft nerf at best.

Finally Blizzard nerfed it.  But why does Blizzard move so slowly to make an adjustment like this?

The game could be so much better if Blizzard was a little more proactive.

Quote from craigrs84 >>

Finally Blizzard nerfed it.  But why does Blizzard move so slowly to make an adjustment like this?

The game could be so much better if Blizzard was a little more proactive.

Quote from Wingdude22 >>

Quote from Nimehte >>

I wonder WHY THEY DON'T NERF PİRATE WARRİOR SERİOUSLY WTF.  Nobody was complaining about pirate warrior since release of ungoro was because it was able to balance meta against quest rogue but there is no excuse left anymore I think pirate warrior is still cancer of this meta and it should be removed from the game last 10 month Pirate warrior was always tier 1 deck obviously it has to be nerfed.

 Didn't they do that?

I almost don't see PW anymore. Besides the fact that Weaponremoval is very prominent on ladder (more because of Medivh) they also gave us the Crwaler to " counter " PW if you really really hate them. Something you can't do vs Questrouge..... (DirtyRat is kinda meh).

Quote from Dalinos>>

Just as Blizz said, it DESTROYED control decks in TWO ways. 1) by its own nature, 2) by promoting so many aggro decks the game became unplayable.

Yes, Crystal Rogue beats Control, it is a hard match up, but people are still playing Control decks, even now, so I would disagree that Crystal Rogue 'destroyed' them. Point #1 is believable but when Control is supposed to be the aggro counter I find #2 harder to believe.

Seeing 10 different aggro decks is NOT balanced OR Diverse. 

I would agree.

Quote from Dalinos>>

by reducing Q rogue, you allow slower decks to shine, and also reduce the amount of people who play aggro, since they can now play their slower decks and not get demolished by Q-rogue. 

Whenever I play (note, this includes both winning and losing) against a cancer deck (in this context, cancer is defined as Q rogue or any deck that tries to finish the game by turns 4/5/6), I always add my opponent after the game, regardless of outcome. I add them to simply, politely ask them why they are playing the deck they are. 

Wild is getting better and better. So many sets are out that 90% of Wild decks have close to 0 RNG in them.

Quote from Dalinos >>

The fact practically NOONE answers "because I really enjoy this deck" proves my point - people play for results, not fun, even if what they are playing is boring/annoying/not their style. In a GAME. 

Quote from WraithM >>

Quote from Dalinos>>

Just as Blizz said, it DESTROYED control decks in TWO ways. 1) by its own nature, 2) by promoting so many aggro decks the game became unplayable.

Yes, Crystal Rogue beats Control, it is a hard match up, but people are still playing Control decks, even now, so I would disagree that Crystal Rogue 'destroyed' them. Point #1 is believable but when Control is supposed to be the aggro counter I find #2 harder to believe.

Seeing 10 different aggro decks is NOT balanced OR Diverse. 

I would agree.

Quote from Dalinos>>

by reducing Q rogue, you allow slower decks to shine, and also reduce the amount of people who play aggro, since they can now play their slower decks and not get demolished by Q-rogue. 

I'll believe that when I see it. People have been talked about the oncoming Control meta just about every expansion for as long as I can remember. If Control decks couldn't profit from the huge amounts of Aggro being played now, I don't think that will change after the nerf.

Whenever I play (note, this includes both winning and losing) against a cancer deck (in this context, cancer is defined as Q rogue or any deck that tries to finish the game by turns 4/5/6), I always add my opponent after the game, regardless of outcome. I add them to simply, politely ask them why they are playing the deck they are. 

In my experience playing Crystal Rogue, when I was keeping track, most games that ended with a KO on turns 4/5/6 were the games I lost to aggro. If I completed the quest on turns 4/5/6, it would take another 1-4 turns to actually win by KO depending on the board state and draws. However, most people just conceded 1-3 turns after the Quest was completed.

To answer your question why I played it, I played it because it was something new, I got it for free from packs, and I liked experimenting with it to try out new ideas looking for cool synergy possibilities. Not running charge was a large handicap though, as doing so never gave my opponents a reason to stop going face and interact with my board which is why I don't play it as much anymore.

Wild is getting better and better. So many sets are out that 90% of Wild decks have close to 0 RNG in them.

 I moved to Wild awhile ago and haven't looked back since. Ragnaros is RNG though, but it seems people forgot he exists since the Hall of Fame as I haven't seen him that often.

Quote from Dalinos >>

The fact practically NOONE answers "because I really enjoy this deck" proves my point - people play for results, not fun, even if what they are playing is boring/annoying/not their style. In a GAME. 

 I play for fun experimenting with decks, but apparently I'm in the minority on that one. Playing for results is why Aggro will stick around and why I don't think slower decks will shine after the Q-rogue nerf.

Quote from Dalinos >>

 

6) You (like me) are in the TINY minority who STILL attempt to muck about with various decks. It is getting extremely disheartening though.

Quote from FortyDust >>

Quote from Dalinos >>

 

6) You (like me) are in the TINY minority who STILL attempt to muck about with various decks. It is getting extremely disheartening though.

 It is possible that you just can't see when your opponent is "mucking about." Even an experimental deck can look very similar to a cookie-cutter popular deck if certain key cards are never drawn. Indeed, the vast majority of innovation happens by increments rather than by throwing out everything we know to be successful and trying to reinvent the wheel with every experiment. But after enough small mutations, the end result can sometimes turn out to look very different from the original inspiration.

Quote from Dalinos>>

1) Please, enlighten me, what exactly is a Jade Druid/Nzoth-Jade Rogue/Lyra-Elise priest supposed to do against hyperaggro warriors and shamans? How am I supposed to tinker around with Quest Hunter and other experimental decks when I'm dead by turn 5?

4) I consider the game to be over when my outs of winning have been reduced to 0. As a druid (for example), a board with 3 5-5s and an already bounced 5/5 charger means it's game over, unless Armour Generating cards decide to show up. It doesn't matter if the actual portrait explosion happens a turn or two later - fighting an uphill battle is no fun when you KNOW there is nothing you can do to win

5) yes, Wild has become fucking awesome

6) You (like me) are in the TINY minority who STILL attempt to muck about with various decks. It is getting extremely disheartening though.

It should have been pretty obvious to Blizzard before release, I am skeptical about them producing OP stuff like this just to sell new packs. Combo decks that reliably finish their game wining combo by around turn 7 is as ridiculous as aggro decks that can win reliably by turn 5.Next expansion can we please have serious updated defensive tools/answers that serve no tempo, lots of spicey cards and RNG cards that aren't legitimately good at all but potentially can be unreliably (i.e. more renounce darkness, less primordial glyph). Also more cards like dirty rat that can screw with your opponents hand.

"Also more cards like dirty rat that can screw with your opponents hand."

Hopefully not.

Quote from gagandugan >>

"Also more cards like dirty rat that can screw with your opponents hand."

Hopefully not.