So I hit Rank 10 for the first time last month by alternating among a Midrange Paladin deck, taunt warrior, and pirate warrior. I barfed a little in my mouth after that last one. Anyway, I've been playing since Blackrock Mountain and am just now hitting ten. Obviously, I'm not a great player. Not bad, but I don't have the time or patience to play enough games to advance, and I don't know the decks well enough to play around things, etc. Ok, table set.
So, the one deck I simply cannot beat is Quest Rogue. Not even with pirate warrior, not with aggro hunter, nothing. I've beat that deck maybe 3-4 times out of the dozens of times I've played it. It feels like EVERY TIME I play that deck, they have God drawn and the quest is done by turn 4 and I'm dead by turn 6.
But I've heard many people, whose opinions I greatly respect, insist that it's not THAT good of a deck, it's too draw-dependent, and if you get bad draw, you're toast. They've told me I'm not playing against it correctly. I've read countless guides on how to beat quest rogue and my conclusion was that I was just playing decks that are too slow to beat it. So, I retooled my decks to be faster, and I still couldn't beat it.
I've been sitting on a mountain of dust, so last night I'm laying in bed watching TV and I decided to just craft The Caverns Below and try it. I figured that since I was unable to figure out how to beat it from the victim side, I'll just start playing it and see how the deck plays and how I get beat, and apply those lessons when I'm playing other decks. Bear in mind, I've never played the deck, and I didn't consult any net deck builds or play guides, I just crafted the cards and threw together a deck from memory based on what I've encountered.
I won 2 games, then lost 2. I saw how the draw mattered, and tweaked the deck slightly to add more "bounce" cards and some more early control. Then I won 4 straight and lost one. The one I lost was to an aggro druid, and I almost beat him, too. He got insanely good draw, my draw was insanely bad (not a single bounce card until turn 8), and I still almost beat him. One more turn or basically ANY slightly better draw and I had him.
Then I won 5 straight and then lost one, this time to an aggro hunter. That game was weird, because I finished the damn quest on TURN 2. That's right. Turn 2. But I didn't have preparation and couldn't play the quest for 3 more turns. If I had drawn Prep, I'd have won that one.
Then I won 4 more straight, including an utter beatdown of a pirate warrior (who admittedly didn't know WTF he was doing --- I'm playing quest Rogue and he dumps Leeroy, handing me two 5/5's? Fool!), then lost 2.
Total: 13-6. With a deck I just made up on the spot and have no real idea how to play. I didn't even have Patches in the deck until the last 4 wins, I had forgotten to include him entirely.
Now, I'm playing at really low ranks so maybe the competition is too easy, but at this time of the month, I usually stink it up in the 15-20 range. I've got losing records in May so far with Taunt Warrior, Midrange Paladin (Silver Hand), Midrange Paladin (Murloc), Elemental Shaman, and Beast Hunter. The only two decks I'm winning with are Pirate Warrior (BARF) and Quest Rogue.
I was very much NOT on the "nerf quest rogue" bandwagon. But I gotta tell ya'll ... now that I've got it, I might be turning that corner. This isn't anywhere near as easy to play as Pirate Warrior, and it's nowhere near as powerful as Patron Warrior, but it also isn't nearly as high skill of a deck as Patron Warrior. If I get even mediocre draw, the deck is virtually impossible to beat. About the only way I can lose is if I simply CANNOT complete the quest, period, until after turn 7 or 8 (which is exceedingly rare), or my opponent is playing a very aggressive deck style AND gets the right draw. Everybody else is toast.
I have a winning record with Quest Rogue vs. Pirate Warrior and Murloc Paladin. Midrange Hunter is definitely hard to beat. I have never seen Evolve Shaman. Not since Un'Goro. NOt sure how Evolve would help, my minions are still 5/5....
I was very much NOT on the "nerf quest rogue" bandwagon. But I gotta tell ya'll ... now that I've got it, I might be turning that corner. This isn't anywhere near as easy to play as Pirate Warrior, and it's nowhere near as powerful as Patron Warrior, but it also isn't nearly as high skill of a deck as Patron Warrior. If I get even mediocre draw, the deck is virtually impossible to beat. About the only way I can lose is if I simply CANNOT complete the quest, period, until after turn 7 or 8 (which is exceedingly rare), or my opponent is playing a very aggressive deck style AND gets the right draw. Everybody else is toast.
Color me concerned.
As a person who is at around the same skill level as you and who plays a lot of quest rogue, I am with you.
I am often labeled a "quest rogue defender," but it's because a lot of the complaints are hyperbole or simply incorrect. It's a lot of salt, and not a lot of thought.
But, the deck is a shade above the power curve when it doesn't entirely brick.
I imagine sometime before the next expac, it's requirement is increased to 5.
You should win any game that goes past turn 8 unless you draw very poorly but that said, people who know how to play against quest rogue will push for early aggression. Even if you play the quest turn 5-6 it's often not enough against a proper aggro deck or a mage who plays a strong early game. Keep playing and once you get past the low ranks you will understand how it balances out.
Then I won 5 straight and then lost one, this time to an aggro hunter. That game was weird, because I finished the damn quest on TURN 2. That's right. Turn 2. But I didn't have preparation and couldn't play the quest for 3 more turns. If I had drawn Prep, I'd have won that one.
That's because it's not always correct to complete the quest as soon as you can, gotta learn that.
@Archaelicos, Pirate Warrior absolutely shreds Quest Rogue. Most likely you just drew dead, they drew great, or you misplayed hard. Most aggro decks will beat Quest by turn 5 or 6. But also remember that even the highly favored Pirate Warrior is only about a 60% or 65%. This equates to winning 6-7 games while losing 4-3 games. Sometimes these kind of losses just happen.
It's a cancerous deck not because it is unbeatable,but because it makes a huge variety of decks completely uplayable.
''dur dur,imma beut dem with smorc,jast prussure dem dur dur''
Yeah but what if you don't like face and midface decks?Quest rogue makes almost all the value and most otk decks obsolete.If any non smorc or midface deck becomes popular then quest rogue will fill the ladder.
''cuntrul nuds a cunter tu,l2p''
Do you remember any meta where control dominated and we needed a counter for it?Yeah me neither.Especially now that there is also jade druid.
You should win any game that goes past turn 8 unless you draw very poorly but that said, people who know how to play against quest rogue will push for early aggression. Even if you play the quest turn 5-6 it's often not enough against a proper aggro deck or a mage who plays a strong early game. Keep playing and once you get past the low ranks you will understand how it balances out.
I'm in the 13-14 range and it's much harder to win now. I went from about an 85% win rate to around 65%. Still by far my strongest deck, which wouldn't concern me if I wasn't otherwise a mediocre player. I built the Quest to learn how to beat it. I haven't learned how yet, other than, "Play Midrange Hunter."
@Archaelicos, Pirate Warrior absolutely shreds Quest Rogue. Most likely you just drew dead, they drew great, or you misplayed hard. Most aggro decks will beat Quest by turn 5 or 6. But also remember that even the highly favored Pirate Warrior is only about a 60% or 65%. This equates to winning 6-7 games while losing 4-3 games. Sometimes these kind of losses just happen.
I don't think I have lost yet to a pirate warrior with my quest rogue. No clue why not, because I agree with you - it should shred. But I haven't played against one recently, and the ones I was playing against did really stupid things. Like play Leeroy Jenkins and hand me a pair of 5/5's. So maybe Pirate Warrior is harder than I think. :)
What rank? If you're up there, then it could have been bad draws for them or they just suck (which seems to be a common theme with Pirate Warriors LOL)! But any aggro will crush Quest Rogue, for the most part.
When quest rogue was really popular mid April, I sticked to a deathrattle priest with his lovely boardclears and just outvalued those valeeras. One or two dragonfire potions and some cheap taunts before and the magic of the caverns is broken. Probz to Shadow Visions
I barely lose to that deckreally specially as midrange hunter dunno how you play the game but you are probably doing something badly if you lose as midrange hunter to quest rogue constantly are you keeping highmanes in your opening hand or what?
You probably beat other people who will now whine about quest rogue being OP it's strong yeah but not pirate warrior strong it needs to draw the nuts to win as fast as pirate warrior.
@OP - I don't know how seriously to take any of your supposed records with decks because of one glaring fact:
You can't even beat quest rogue with pirate warrior!
Not to mention your sample size is so tiny that your winning record with quest rogue could be no more than a typical statistical fluctuation.
Quest rogue is easy enough to play and if your record is as bad as you indicate with other decks, then your MMR and matchmaking against other players will have you facing subpar competition.
I'm sorry you waited until after the deck in question nearly dropped off the radar before you spent your dust crafting a mediocre legendary.
Good luck on the frustrating climb ahead. Players at higher ranks will find it hilarious that you are using such an inconsistent deck when Miracle Rogue has proven to be so much better.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
So I hit Rank 10 for the first time last month by alternating among a Midrange Paladin deck, taunt warrior, and pirate warrior. I barfed a little in my mouth after that last one. Anyway, I've been playing since Blackrock Mountain and am just now hitting ten. Obviously, I'm not a great player. Not bad, but I don't have the time or patience to play enough games to advance, and I don't know the decks well enough to play around things, etc. Ok, table set.
So, the one deck I simply cannot beat is Quest Rogue. Not even with pirate warrior, not with aggro hunter, nothing. I've beat that deck maybe 3-4 times out of the dozens of times I've played it. It feels like EVERY TIME I play that deck, they have God drawn and the quest is done by turn 4 and I'm dead by turn 6.
But I've heard many people, whose opinions I greatly respect, insist that it's not THAT good of a deck, it's too draw-dependent, and if you get bad draw, you're toast. They've told me I'm not playing against it correctly. I've read countless guides on how to beat quest rogue and my conclusion was that I was just playing decks that are too slow to beat it. So, I retooled my decks to be faster, and I still couldn't beat it.
I've been sitting on a mountain of dust, so last night I'm laying in bed watching TV and I decided to just craft The Caverns Below and try it. I figured that since I was unable to figure out how to beat it from the victim side, I'll just start playing it and see how the deck plays and how I get beat, and apply those lessons when I'm playing other decks. Bear in mind, I've never played the deck, and I didn't consult any net deck builds or play guides, I just crafted the cards and threw together a deck from memory based on what I've encountered.
I won 2 games, then lost 2. I saw how the draw mattered, and tweaked the deck slightly to add more "bounce" cards and some more early control. Then I won 4 straight and lost one. The one I lost was to an aggro druid, and I almost beat him, too. He got insanely good draw, my draw was insanely bad (not a single bounce card until turn 8), and I still almost beat him. One more turn or basically ANY slightly better draw and I had him.
Then I won 5 straight and then lost one, this time to an aggro hunter. That game was weird, because I finished the damn quest on TURN 2. That's right. Turn 2. But I didn't have preparation and couldn't play the quest for 3 more turns. If I had drawn Prep, I'd have won that one.
Then I won 4 more straight, including an utter beatdown of a pirate warrior (who admittedly didn't know WTF he was doing --- I'm playing quest Rogue and he dumps Leeroy, handing me two 5/5's? Fool!), then lost 2.
Total: 13-6. With a deck I just made up on the spot and have no real idea how to play. I didn't even have Patches in the deck until the last 4 wins, I had forgotten to include him entirely.
Now, I'm playing at really low ranks so maybe the competition is too easy, but at this time of the month, I usually stink it up in the 15-20 range. I've got losing records in May so far with Taunt Warrior, Midrange Paladin (Silver Hand), Midrange Paladin (Murloc), Elemental Shaman, and Beast Hunter. The only two decks I'm winning with are Pirate Warrior (BARF) and Quest Rogue.
I was very much NOT on the "nerf quest rogue" bandwagon. But I gotta tell ya'll ... now that I've got it, I might be turning that corner. This isn't anywhere near as easy to play as Pirate Warrior, and it's nowhere near as powerful as Patron Warrior, but it also isn't nearly as high skill of a deck as Patron Warrior. If I get even mediocre draw, the deck is virtually impossible to beat. About the only way I can lose is if I simply CANNOT complete the quest, period, until after turn 7 or 8 (which is exceedingly rare), or my opponent is playing a very aggressive deck style AND gets the right draw. Everybody else is toast.
Color me concerned.
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I have a winning record with Quest Rogue vs. Pirate Warrior and Murloc Paladin. Midrange Hunter is definitely hard to beat. I have never seen Evolve Shaman. Not since Un'Goro. NOt sure how Evolve would help, my minions are still 5/5....
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You should win any game that goes past turn 8 unless you draw very poorly but that said, people who know how to play against quest rogue will push for early aggression. Even if you play the quest turn 5-6 it's often not enough against a proper aggro deck or a mage who plays a strong early game. Keep playing and once you get past the low ranks you will understand how it balances out.
@Archaelicos, Pirate Warrior absolutely shreds Quest Rogue. Most likely you just drew dead, they drew great, or you misplayed hard. Most aggro decks will beat Quest by turn 5 or 6. But also remember that even the highly favored Pirate Warrior is only about a 60% or 65%. This equates to winning 6-7 games while losing 4-3 games. Sometimes these kind of losses just happen.
It's a cancerous deck not because it is unbeatable,but because it makes a huge variety of decks completely uplayable.
''dur dur,imma beut dem with smorc,jast prussure dem dur dur''
Yeah but what if you don't like face and midface decks?Quest rogue makes almost all the value and most otk decks obsolete.If any non smorc or midface deck becomes popular then quest rogue will fill the ladder.
''cuntrul nuds a cunter tu,l2p''
Do you remember any meta where control dominated and we needed a counter for it?Yeah me neither.Especially now that there is also jade druid.
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What rank? If you're up there, then it could have been bad draws for them or they just suck (which seems to be a common theme with Pirate Warriors LOL)! But any aggro will crush Quest Rogue, for the most part.
When quest rogue was really popular mid April, I sticked to a deathrattle priest with his lovely boardclears and just outvalued those valeeras. One or two dragonfire potions and some cheap taunts before and the magic of the caverns is broken. Probz to Shadow Visions
Numbers on the meta. Prove that QR is overwhelming the meta.
If you can't, this is irrelevant personal and subjective experience.
I barely lose to that deckreally specially as midrange hunter dunno how you play the game but you are probably doing something badly if you lose as midrange hunter to quest rogue constantly are you keeping highmanes in your opening hand or what?
You probably beat other people who will now whine about quest rogue being OP it's strong yeah but not pirate warrior strong it needs to draw the nuts to win as fast as pirate warrior.
@OP - I don't know how seriously to take any of your supposed records with decks because of one glaring fact:
You can't even beat quest rogue with pirate warrior!
Not to mention your sample size is so tiny that your winning record with quest rogue could be no more than a typical statistical fluctuation.
Quest rogue is easy enough to play and if your record is as bad as you indicate with other decks, then your MMR and matchmaking against other players will have you facing subpar competition.
Dear OP:
I'm sorry you waited until after the deck in question nearly dropped off the radar before you spent your dust crafting a mediocre legendary.
Good luck on the frustrating climb ahead. Players at higher ranks will find it hilarious that you are using such an inconsistent deck when Miracle Rogue has proven to be so much better.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
you win with it at low ranks, it is insane below rank 15 past that it falls off, you can reach legend with it and it is not bad, but not exactly good.
Just fill your deck with one drops, that is creative deck design, right?
How the heck did you survive until turn 8 against Aggro Druid with supposedly "insanely good draw" while your draw was atrocious?
This really just seems like something that belongs in the salt thread.
http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/190922-the-rogue-quest-the-caverns-below-is-op-nerf-it
http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/190533-quest-rogue-counter