Hearthpwn

The fact that there are  people in this thread, defending the rogue quest is mind boggling. Do you even play the game? 

Quote from robert_fanr >>

Quote from Lighi87 >>

Quote from robert_fanr >>

 You are not supposed to win vs quest rogue as control the same way freze mage isn't supposed to win against control warrior or control  warrior isn't supposed to win against jade druid .

Jade druid falls in the same category as quest rogue. It's not about a deck having a very good matchup against another deck (like your freeze mage / control warrior example), it's about a deck having an extremely good matchup against a whole archetype of decks.

When you have one of these super-favourite decks for each archetype you end up with rock paper scissor as there is no point in running any other deck besides those super decks.

So fun.

 To all people complaining about rock paper scissors meta just a quick remainder :

Last summer, after the introduction of standard format, the match ups were much closer to 50 50 for all archetypes . There were some favorable match ups but there were very little hard counters and pretty much every game was winnable with good draws for your side or bad draws for the opponent . 

Does anyone remember what quickly happened to that meta ? That's right, it became stale, with mostly midrange decks that were the most optimized curve decks and you would see those everywhere , that things got even worse to the point where there was a single most optimized deck ruling all the meta, the infamous MidRange Shaman . That deck wasn't oppressive because of huge win rates against specific decks but because it had a good chance to win against any deck - precisely what some people here argue they want their deck to do .

Now, unless you liked that kind of stale meta where only 2-3 decks that are able to win against anything are playable you really should understand why hard counters are good for a diverse and unstable meta .

Quote from robert_fanr >>

Does anyone remember what quickly happened to that meta ? That's right, it became stale, with mostly midrange decks that were the most optimized curve decks and you would see those everywhere , that things got even worse to the point where there was a single most optimized deck ruling all the meta, the infamous MidRange Shaman . That deck wasn't oppressive because of huge win rates against specific decks but because it had a good chance to win against any deck - precisely what some people here argue they want their deck to do .

Quote from Gnimsh76 >>

The fact that there are  people in this thread, defending the rogue quest is mind boggling. 

While it isn't without it's flaws, it is something new, cheap, and different. It is also one of the first new Rogue archetypes in a long time, so why wouldn't people have taken an interest in it? I'd rather it stick around for those reasons after some balance adjustments to give both players more room to do something other than go face in the match ups, so I am 'defending' it from that point of view. I am well aware not everyone shares the same perspective on the card or the archetype itself, so I don't find it that surprising.

Quote from robert_fanr >>

Quote from Lighi87 >>

Quote from robert_fanr >>

 You are not supposed to win vs quest rogue as control the same way freze mage isn't supposed to win against control warrior or control  warrior isn't supposed to win against jade druid .

Jade druid falls in the same category as quest rogue. It's not about a deck having a very good matchup against another deck (like your freeze mage / control warrior example), it's about a deck having an extremely good matchup against a whole archetype of decks.

When you have one of these super-favourite decks for each archetype you end up with rock paper scissor as there is no point in running any other deck besides those super decks.

So fun.

 To all people complaining about rock paper scissors meta just a quick remainder :

Last summer, after the introduction of standard format, the match ups were much closer to 50 50 for all archetypes . There were some favorable match ups but there were very little hard counters and pretty much every game was winnable with good draws for your side or bad draws for the opponent . 

Does anyone remember what quickly happened to that meta ? That's right, it became stale, with mostly midrange decks that were the most optimized curve decks and you would see those everywhere , that things got even worse to the point where there was a single most optimized deck ruling all the meta, the infamous MidRange Shaman . That deck wasn't oppressive because of huge win rates against specific decks but because it had a good chance to win against any deck - precisely what some people here argue they want their deck to do .

Now, unless you liked that kind of stale meta where only 2-3 decks that are able to win against anything are playable you really should understand why hard counters are good for a diverse and unstable meta .

The deck is tier 2 and a control meta isn't actually a thing.  Quest Rogue is fine and honestly, even though it's not the most fun thing in the world to play or play against, it is a completely reasonable deck for the game.  People just need to accept that and move on. 

Quote from notsoclutch >>

The deck is tier 2 and a control meta isn't actually a thing.  Quest Rogue is fine and honestly, even though it's not the most fun thing in the world to play or play against, it is a completely reasonable deck for the game.  People just need to accept that and move on. 

Quote from Deftmove >>

Quote from notsoclutch >>

The deck is tier 2 and a control meta isn't actually a thing.  Quest Rogue is fine and honestly, even though it's not the most fun thing in the world to play or play against, it is a completely reasonable deck for the game.  People just need to accept that and move on. 

 Define reasonable, the deck is better at abusing charge than Worgen Warrior was and they nerfed Charge because of it - Worgen Warrior was a Tier 2 deck as well so ...

Let's accept that only Quest Rogue players say this card is okay. This thing should have never happened. It gives a big prize for a small acomplishment. 

Quote from SlickRick >>

Let's accept that only Quest Rogue players say this card is okay. This thing should have never happened. It gives a big prize for a small acomplishment. 

Quote from SlickRick >>

Let's accept that only Quest Rogue players say this card is okay. This thing should have never happened. It gives a big prize for a small acomplishment. 

Quote from robert_fanr >>

Quote from SlickRick >>

Let's accept that only Quest Rogue players say this card is okay. This thing should have never happened. It gives a big prize for a small acomplishment. 

 Don't forget about the aggro players . They don't mind facing quest rogue and together with rogue players they form majority so ... this argument isn't in your favor .

< duplicate >

Quote from robert_fanr >>

Quote from Deftmove >>

Quote from notsoclutch >>

The deck is tier 2 and a control meta isn't actually a thing.  Quest Rogue is fine and honestly, even though it's not the most fun thing in the world to play or play against, it is a completely reasonable deck for the game.  People just need to accept that and move on. 

 Define reasonable, the deck is better at abusing charge than Worgen Warrior was and they nerfed Charge because of it - Worgen Warrior was a Tier 2 deck as well so ...

 Wargon warrior was quite a bit harder to counter than quest rogue, because it had tools to deal with wide boards through wild pyromancer combos as well as good hard removal with execute, the possibility to gain early tempo with win axe or frothing and armour gain . Just playing a fast deck was not enough to counter it . 

Also quest rogue rarely OTK s opponents . It requires some build up turns before dealing the final blow .

Funny how silence and cards like hex and polymorph have no effect but they can still create a van cleef that is beefier than a 5/5.

Lmfao great design blizz. 

The 5/5's are still susceptible to stat manipulation effects, which include debuffs and buffs, and that is why Van Cleef is a 5/5 when he is silenced. Going by the card text and what is observed in game, I suspect that under the hood Blizzard is changing the vanilla stats to 5/5 in a similar manner to how vanilla Jade Golems get their stats but for all minions instead. The new stats display in game as green however, suggesting that they are buffs, but since they don't behave like buffs, I think they should be a different color to reflect that difference, such as blue, if Blizzard intends to leave these interactions this way. 

Quote from WraithM >>

The 5/5's are still susceptible to stat manipulation effects, which include debuffs and buffs, and that is why Van Cleef is a 5/5 when he is silenced. Going by the card text and what is observed in game, I suspect that under the hood Blizzard is changing the vanilla stats to 5/5 in a similar manner to how vanilla Jade Golems get their stats but for all minions instead. The new stats display in game as green however, suggesting that they are buffs, but since they don't behave like buffs, I think they should be a different color to reflect that difference, such as blue, if Blizzard intends to leave these interactions this way. 

Quote from TheWamts >>

Quote from WraithM >>

The 5/5's are still susceptible to stat manipulation effects, which include debuffs and buffs, and that is why Van Cleef is a 5/5 when he is silenced. Going by the card text and what is observed in game, I suspect that under the hood Blizzard is changing the vanilla stats to 5/5 in a similar manner to how vanilla Jade Golems get their stats but for all minions instead. The new stats display in game as green however, suggesting that they are buffs, but since they don't behave like buffs, I think they should be a different color to reflect that difference, such as blue, if Blizzard intends to leave these interactions this way. 

 It's a buff, it's the same type of buff as Keeper of Uldaman. The base stats of the minions become 5/5. Anything that gets applied afterward gets treated as normal. That's also why Aldor and Uldaman can override Crystal Core.

I'm just not finding quest rogue that OP.  The one oddity I have with it is that I still have a winning record vs. Pirate Warrior with Quest Rogue.  I would chalk this up to playing against crappy Pirate Warriors, but I also having a losing record WITH Pirate Warrior vs. Quest Rogue.  I don't get that.  Pirate Warrior should maul quest rogue.  I can't beat it.  They just freeze the shit out of me with the damn glacial elemental until they finish their quest.  

But other aggro decks melt my face with Quest Rogue.  I dunno.  I had fun playing it for a few weeks but I'm bored with it already and trying to rank up to 10 and it's just not that good after about rank 14.  There's too many midrange decks that eat it up.   I'm much more fed up with Secret Mage at this point.

Honestly at this point, I'm happy to queue into a Quest Rogue on ladder. It only ever does one thing, you know how to beat it, and even if you're playing a deck that's unfavored against it, you play the best line you can and just move on if it doesn't work out. 24-12 this season against all Rogues, across 4 different classes played with quest representing the majority of those games, so it's not feeling oppressive to me.

Quote from craptasm >>

Honestly at this point, I'm happy to queue into a Quest Rogue on ladder. It only ever does one thing, you know how to beat it, and even if you're playing a deck that's unfavored against it, you play the best line you can and just move on if it doesn't work out. 24-12 this season against all Rogues, across 4 different classes played with quest representing the majority of those games, so it's not feeling oppressive to me.

Yesterday I played a game against Quest Rogue. Turn 2 and 3 IGB, turn 4 and 5 Crystalweaver. A control deck is allowed to be able to clear a board that strong, and an aggro or midrange deck is allowed to build a board to contest that. Quest Rogue didn't only do both, she did both simultaneously within a timespan of practically one turn. Although I did win, how close the game was proves how stupidly op the deck is. I got lucky that game, yes. Perfect draws and answers all the time. That perfect opening was destroyed in two turns, and then it took Demonwrath into Enforcer next turn followed by Nether into Healbot to not lose myself. Yet without the last topdeck, Darkbomb on turn 10, I would have lost the next turn.