Hearthpwn

Any deck is completely broken... You just have to get the perfect hand, in the end its all RNG.

Quote from Wingdude22 >>

I found that I lose most of the time when they have preparation, without prep I almost always win against Rouge. The closest comparison would probably be innervate from Druid, without those manacheating cards it's only a fair deck.

Quote from GhostCoffee >>

Any deck is completely broken... You just have to get the perfect hand, in the end its all RNG.

Worst card design. Ever. Period.

Quote from WraithM >>

Quote from cluelesspug >>

I personally would like to see a simple change - all PLAYED minions become 5/5s. I think, while frustrating to play against, that Quest Rogue is mostly a balanced deck. It has good and bad matchups just like any other deck.

This allows things like Hex, Polymorph, Devolve, Silence (the mechanic), and Dirty Rat (played post-quest) to be great against them, while also making some interactions less confusing.

I've put some thought into why transform doesn't work on Crystal Core minions. I think under the hood when the Crystal Core is played it changes the vanilla stats of each minion on the board and every minion summoned afterwards owned by that player. Silence won't remove those stats because those are their new vanilla stats, but buff and debuff effects can still change them like normal. Transform isn't a buff/debuff effect and instead summons a new minion, whose vanilla stats then get changed by the Crystal Core.

While my explanation might not be satisfying to some players, I think changing the wording to played instead of summoned only really helps Devolve and Mystic Wool and that isn't enough of a gain in my mind to justify removing the synergy of dozens of cards which summon minions that Quest Rogue could be playing or could discover off of cards like Swashburglar. Quest Rogue generally has two possible win conditions - flood the board with token spam to overwhelm your opponent with sheer value or win by bouncing charge minions. Changing the Crystal Core to played only means Quest Rogue only has charge as a win condition, because without board clears taking back control of the board would be impossible against any but the slowest of decks.

 

I should start by saying that I come to this thread extremely salty at the moment. Now that I've put that out there let me say, F@#% this idiotic card. Feels amazing to play 4 Dragonfire Potions and still lose the game because your opponent can topdeck 1 mana 5/5 chargers and bounce them back multiple times and kill you from 20+ life. I'm done playing ladder until this card is nerfed, if ever. I'm just gonna stick to playing friends for awhile.

Quote from Riker87 >>

I should start by saying that I come to this thread extremely salty at the moment. Now that I've put that out there let me say, F@#% this idiotic card. Feels amazing to play 4 Dragonfire Potions and still lose the game because your opponent can topdeck 1 mana 5/5 chargers and bounce them back multiple times and kill you from 20+ life. I'm done playing ladder until this card is nerfed, if ever. I'm just gonna stick to playing friends for awhile.

Quote from Riker87 >>

I should start by saying that I come to this thread extremely salty at the moment. Now that I've put that out there let me say, F@#% this idiotic card. Feels amazing to play 4 Dragonfire Potions and still lose the game because your opponent can topdeck 1 mana 5/5 chargers and bounce them back multiple times and kill you from 20+ life. I'm done playing ladder until this card is nerfed, if ever. I'm just gonna stick to playing friends for awhile.

Charge is the problem.

End thread.

Quote from nevr3000 >>

Quote from SchruteBucks >>

 I'm in a conversation about quest rogue over on reddit, and someone apparently played SEVEN df potions and still lost, because of bouncing charge minions. 

I'd like to see a replay of that. How did he get the +3 dragon fire potions... AND play them?

There is that new Un'Goro Priest card that lets them discover spells from their own deck - Shadow Visions, but that would only account for two more for a total of four, so getting the remaining three would require getting lucky through Lyra the Sunshard for either more Dragonfire Potions or more Shadow Visions or playing in Wild with stuff that gives you spells from your own class, though if his Rogue opponent had discovered one from Hallucination or got one at random from Swashburglar and had it in his hand, then Mind Vision could get copies of it, but that is also hard to believe.

Quote from WraithM >>

There is that new Un'Goro Priest card that lets them discover spells from their own deck - Shadow Visions, but that would only account for two more for a total of four, so getting the remaining three would require getting lucky through Lyra the Sunshard for either more Dragonfire Potions or more Shadow Visions or playing in Wild with stuff that gives you spells from your own class, though if his Rogue opponent had discovered one from Hallucination or got one at random from Swashburglar and had it in his hand, then Mind Vision could get copies of it, but that is also hard to believe.

Lol Priest losing to Rogue is absolutely not a new thing... I'm not sure that's ever enough to qualify for a nerf. Lots of other reasons to look at adjusting Quest Rogue in some way, but the Priest matchup simply just isn't a good one since one of Priest's inherent weaknesses has always (and will probably always) be a weakness to anything that can assemble something insane with enough turns.

This is why Oil and Miracle Rogue preyed on Priest, Jade Druid can actually go for a giant Auctioneer turn into a win, and why you may as well have essentially conceded against Freeze Mage or Anyfin prior to rotation. 

True, but Hex and Poly (and devolve) are already all over the meta, it makes them more competitive and useful.  And the margin on Quest Rogue is that thin.  I don't think it's as overpowered as people think, but I do think it needs to be toned down a little.  Going to 5 bounces isn't the answer, but a few more removal options would help.  Quest ROgue is a "hold on for dear life" type of win in most cases, and adding just a few more ways to counter it is all that's really needed IMO.

It's taking fire because it's a deck that, when you lose to it, just feels so hopeless and stupid.  If you're going to lose to it, there's usually nothing you can do about it, it's REALLY irritating.  

Quote from Prudence94 >>

I don't think the card itself is op... Unless they draw the nuts trying to complete the Quest will make them fall behind on tempo and the Deck doesn't have comeback mechanisms outside of Vanish,so most of the times they'll lose hard to any kind of fast Deck (Pirates,Token Druid,Hunter)... The only problem I have with this Deck (setting aside the fact that imo it's awfully boring to play against) is those charge minions.... How exactly am I supposed to counter a 0/1 mana 5/5 hitting my face 3 times in a row? Just make it so that affected minions can't attack face the turn they are played and I'll be fine with it...  

Just want to write this here for future references:

The negative feedback on this card/deck has never been about the decks winrate or good/bad matchups. So any arguments such as "it doesn't have a good winrate" or "it loses to aggro" does not address the issue.

The feedback is entirely based on the experience that a lot of people have when playing against the deck. If your deck is not designed to either rush down the enemy or produce some sort of high damage burst combo, you basically have no chance of winning against this deck and it feels really unfair.

It also pushes the metagame into a very unhealthy state because this decks existance on the ladder invalidates so many slower decktypes.

Quote from Archaelicos >>

Quote from Prudence94 >>

I don't think the card itself is op... Unless they draw the nuts trying to complete the Quest will make them fall behind on tempo and the Deck doesn't have comeback mechanisms outside of Vanish,so most of the times they'll lose hard to any kind of fast Deck (Pirates,Token Druid,Hunter)... The only problem I have with this Deck (setting aside the fact that imo it's awfully boring to play against) is those charge minions.... How exactly am I supposed to counter a 0/1 mana 5/5 hitting my face 3 times in a row? Just make it so that affected minions can't attack face the turn they are played and I'll be fine with it...  

You could make a reasonable argument that ALL charge minions should have this behavior by default.  The default rule should be that charge can't hit face on the turn they are played absent card text to the contrary.  E.g., inverse of what we have now.  I'd say Leeroy, Patches, and the 4/3 Warrior charge should get to go face, but others should not.  Having one bounce/charge in Quest Rogue isn't that bad.  Having 3 is silly.

Quote from Archaelicos >>

True, but Hex and Poly (and devolve) are already all over the meta, it makes them more competitive and useful.   

Quote from Hephaisto22>>

Just want to write this here for future references:

The negative feedback on this card/deck has never been about the decks winrate or good/bad matchups.

I respectfully disagree. Many posts of negative feedback about losing to Quest Rogue were certainly about bad match ups in my opinion.

So any arguments such as "it doesn't have a good winrate" or "it loses to aggro" does not address the issue.

People are discussing two things - their personal experiences and the nerfs they want to see. If people just say "I hate losing to this deck" or "I find playing against this deck to be tedious and boring", then I would agree you because no one can tell you what to think is fun to play against. However, when people start talking about nerfs, then win rate and match up statistics are very much relevant to that discussion, particularly when emotionally charged posts are being made calling for nerfs without regard to how they would affect Quest Rogue against Aggro as well as Control.

It also pushes the metagame into a very unhealthy state because this decks existance on the ladder invalidates so many slower decktypes.

Make the effect silenceable and it might be fair.  Make transformative effects actually work (and not "Hex makes it a 5/5 with taunt.")

Another way to nerf this card without completely demolishing it would be to increase the cost.  With Prep being a thing, 5 mana is too cheap.  This should be 8 mana IMO.