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Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
A healthy meta needs a Rock that still has a small, but real *chance* to beat Paper. Quest Rogue makes Hearthstone actual RPS. If Quest Rogue runs into an aggro-deck it loses, if it runs into a control deck it wins. That's not a meta and what's worse is there's no interaction.
Balancing busted cards version 1.0.
Overall Crystal Rogue statistically has a 30/70% match up vs most Aggro and a 70/30% match up vs most Control, so that 25-33% average chance is already there (see the DataReaper links in my signature if interested), though one's personal W/L ratio might deviate from the average however because it is just an average. While Crystal Rogue may have polarized match ups, the meta has been fairly hostile to it and it's popularity has been declining as a result, so I would agree with Tze's statement that Crystal Rogue isn't oppressing the meta like those other decks he mentioned.
Now most of my card game knowledge comes from MtG (been playing that for 20 years now), but I believe certain things ring true in both games. Note that I've only been into Hearthstone for a couple of months and I think the highest I've climbed is rank 10.
The rock/paper/scissors metas tend to work best when the decks are closer to 60/40 as opposed to 70/30. Having more extreme win rates tends to be very meta defining. A very broad example using extremes would be if quest rogue had 100% win rates vs midrange and control but a 0% win rate vs aggro. Then at first glance you would think you should play quest rogue. Clever players will realize that a majority of people will flock to quest rogue (at least initially) and they will play aggro. After a brief period of dominance, quest rogue would have below 50% win rate from so many people playing aggro.
Seeing aggro on top, midrange and control would try to punish aggro, but they'll never have close to a 100% win rate vs aggro and still lose 100% of the time to quest rogue preventing them from breaking through and being top tier decks. Aggro would look like the strongest archetype by far, with quest rogue being competitive enough to keep everything else down but probably have less than a 50% win rate.
In this example quest rogue is having a huge negative impact on the meta while also having a below 50% win rate. Now clearly things aren't this bad and it's possible quest rogue won't be impacting the meta enough to warrant any reaction from Blizzard, but some people feel that we are already there. This is the danger of quest rogue. If nerfing the quest makes it possible for more variety off decks to be played and to have a more well rounded meta than that should be a consideration for Blizzard.
So where do you guys see the state of the meta? Is it fun and diverse? Or is quest rogue preventing the decks it counters from having a chance of seeing competitive play? I'll admit that I don't have the answers.
@SarcasticNekro, you make a lot of good points.The decline after a period of prominence has already occurred, so I would agree with you there - the meta is very hostile to Crystal Rogue and it is a deck with known weaknesses. Clever players played to the meta by shifting to aggro against the rise of Crystal Rogue and now with the general rise of aggro, archetypes that fair well against aggro decks are also coming back. The Kibler video on Crystal Rogue or the DataReaper reports on the Un'Goro meta as a whole, say a lot of the same things. I have some of them linked in my signature.
Regarding the state of the meta I think deck diversity is at an all time high right now, even with Crystal Rogue being played. Most classes with the sad exception of Warlock have at least two viable and popular archetypes and some even have more.
Having the possibility to silence those 5/5 could help a little. It won't be that huge nerf, but open more option to survive. And the owl will rise again.
Yes, Quest Rogue needs a nerf. It is the black hole at the center of the meta, and clearly fostering a much more agro-centric one that either Blizzard or most players prefer.
Of all the nerfs I have seen, the one I like the most is to switch Crystal Core to an untargetable minion (like a dormant corpse flower, or imp portal) that makes adjacent minions 5/5. This would both limit some of the insane burst this card represents, and prevent the use of prep to get it out early.
Completes turn 3. Boar, Boar, Patches, DeckHand turn 4. Much fun. Much interactive.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
The only thing enjoyable about this deck is beating it with freeze mage (which is fairly easy against most QR players, I'm sure it's trickier if they know what they are doing).
I have to admit though, I really like the idea of it and it does look like it is fun to play. But the ease of getting fire flies makes it absurdly consistent and this doubled with how good it is versus control decks makes the ladder a lot less enjoyable.
And I know as a freeze mage player that is perhaps a bit of a double standard, but at least versus freeze mage you can tech quite heftily. That's what I say to sleep better at least.
It's mind boggling that there are people STILL defending this trash, those people clearly play this trash or play aggro trash. There can't be one sane player who doesn't play that crap and defends it. Also team 5 once again lied to the players about bringing balance changes faster, they don't care as long as they make money.
I honestly had no idea Quest Rogue was so much of a problem, I've never lost to a Quest Rogue with Midrange Hunter.
So I posted this on the Hearthstone main website, community forums. It's long winded and I have a TL;DR at the bottom. With that said the wall of text is below.
I play quest rogue to finish the rogue daily quests only in casual. The quest is too easy to finish, the quest reward is over powered, and doesn't require skill to play the deck (even if an announcer thinks differently).
Turn 5 win consistently, or opponents concede once you bounce a minion once (twice if you are lucky).
The idea of reducing the power/toughness of the reward is good, otherwise make the cost 1 or 2 more to limit the combo with preparation.
With that being said my personal opinions of the current class quests. All quest rewards cost 5 mana.
Priest quest, turn 4 potential finish. The quest doesn't give the win and requires skilled deck building and play. Any form of control or tempo can out maneuver this quest.
Warrior quest, turn 4 potential finish. The quest doesn't give the win and requires skilled deck building and play. Easy to kill the weapon, the hero power can be played around or out tempo'd.
Druid quest, turn 6 (5?) Potential finish. Many decks are faster and will kill you before win conditions are met.
Shaman quest, turn 4 potential finish. The quest doesn't give the win and requires skilled deck building and play. Also easy to counter with board wipe and taunt.
Warlock quest, turn 4 potential finish. The quest doesn't give the win and requires skilled deck building and play. Also easy to counter, and you can accidentally discard the control or tempo needed to win.
Paladin quest, turn 4 potential finish. The quest doesn't give the win and requires skilled deck building and play. This deck can overpower quickly but any form of early control stops it, and can be out tempo'd.
Hunter quest, turn 4 potential finish. The quest doesn't give the win and requires skilled deck building and play. Also easy to counter with board wipe and taunt.
Mage quest, turn 5 potential finish. This deck is the other most oppressive deck in this meta. Easily capable of heavy control and a TTK built in. But the deck requires a very high skill level and knowledge of the meta.
Rogue quest, turn 2 potential finish. Turn 3 quest play, and from there all 5/5 minions and 5 of them with charge. And all of the minions are 2 cost or less, including the quest reward. The deck gets oppressive upon the same turn Crystal Core is played and doesn't let up.
TL;DR: quest rogue is the easiest way to play, only mage is similar. All other quests are faulty.
Again this is my opinion not factual. I would like to add a note however that seeing the comments here, the idea of meta defining hadn't crossed my mind at the time. It is quite a better way of explaining why QR is such a problem to so many people.
Cute, ineffective, but cute.
This deck is very similar to (old) jade druid. It's not broken and it doesn't have an insane winrate, but it is terrible for the balance of the game.
Fuck cubelock
I am 99% sure this will be nerfed in the future, either in terms of mana cost or in terms of stats (4/4s perhaps?). It's not dominating the meta because it sucks against any aggro deck but kind of ruins the experience.
I also opened a golden version of it and want 3600 dust :D
51 pages of complaints and still no nerf. Oh well, guess i'll just play arena for a while.
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