This is a decent card. Pulling out the worst cards in a midrange deck with 6,7 and 9 mana threats can make the late game curve very powerful (secret paladin says hi). That being said, a 3/5 for 5 is pretty weak, so im not sure of the benefits outweigh the risks.
Being underrated. Hunter will take card draw in any form. Expect it to see play once we see the entire expansion. Right now it'll only get Argent Squire, Alleycat, Abusive Sergeant, or Mistress of Mixtures, but wouldn't doubt we see one or two others in the set.
I actually 100% agree. I think people underrate cards when they are first revealed because they don't know what's yet to be released. This card could be pretty sick on turn 6 or turn 7 because 1 drops carry a lot more value than their mana. A 3/5 that cycles two cards and then allows you to play a 2/2 or two 1/1s for 1 mana is like a 6 mana 5/7 that cycles two cards or a 7 mana 7/9 that cycles two and thins your deck. Overall, I think this card has potential to be really good based on what cards they release. It can help flood the board and thin your deck while providing a sturdy 3/5 body to boot.
He dosen't need to step back and chill for a minute. People needs to use their brains and every single person in this forum needs to realise how BAD this cards. Blizzard NEEDS to fucking pull their shit together and do something real about their card game, people is already tired of getting ripped of expansion after expansion with the game they used to love. This card is a savage insult to any Hunter played that wanted a Tempo/control build.
Also.. You play aggro Warrior cuz of WEAPONS... The best weapons in the game, they go face, and u need to put a fucking oze or harrison to interact with them, a dead card in many other matches, that's why... u cannot use them a defense, it's completly normal to be raging about this card, they're spitting on us and 30% of you are fine with it.
Most of us are fine with it because it's a card game and we're not raging little children, though. Jesus Christ go play something else, surely the game isn't worth this level of vitriol and hatred yet still keeps your patronship?
Yeah it's not a great card, okay, Hunters have one bad card so far this expansion. Well damn better throw a childish little hissy fit about it eh?
Look, you can demean a valid criticism all you want, it doesn't make facts less real. This is a game that really felt great, I didn't mind paying for adventures and new expansion bundles, it felt good. But more and more I feel like we're seeing them make the same mistakes over and over, sure, some things got a lot better, but cards like this make me question their ability to judge their work reasonably. I would LOVE to hear the logic behind this card, because I don't see it, I can't even immagine the mental gymnastics necessary to justify it.
It's not like I desperately want to abandon all the money I poured into this game (because as we all know, unlike TCG's, we're not getting it back), but I sure don't intend to pour more if they keep delivering stuff that makes no sense, or if it does, isn't explained. This isn't even debatable, the communication they have with the player base is TERRIBLE. Criticism is rarely addressed, and when it does, poorly.
Yes, I'm getting tired of this back and forth. I don't like that they feel entitled to expect us to purchase expansion bundles before they show us all the cards, not to mention the undefined release date. Am I being unreasonable here? I don't know, dude. I praise them when it is due, but I won't pretend this cards isn't a giant middle finger to the player base.
Being underrated. Hunter will take card draw in any form. Expect it to see play once we see the entire expansion. Right now it'll only get Argent Squire, Alleycat, Abusive Sergeant, or Mistress of Mixtures, but wouldn't doubt we see one or two others in the set.
I actually 100% agree. I think people underrate cards when they are first revealed because they don't know what's yet to be released. This card could be pretty sick on turn 6 or turn 7 because 1 drops carry a lot more value than their mana. A 3/5 that cycles two cards and then allows you to play a 2/2 or two 1/1s for 1 mana is like a 6 mana 5/7 that cycles two cards or a 7 mana 7/9 that cycles two and thins your deck. Overall, I think this card has potential to be really good based on what cards they release. It can help flood the board and thin your deck while providing a sturdy 3/5 body to boot.
Based on the cards we have it's not very good. Although I could be totally wrong I thought don han'cho was gonna be tier one
People who think this card is bad are advised to take a look at Small time recruits.
Which isn't a bad card but don't see any play cause paladin is too slow in general and was viable in standard play for like 8 months in the 3 years HS is a game.. (too viable wqith SP but still) it's also better on paladin cuz the paladin handbuffing is way better than hunters' handbuffing cards..
would be better in paldin..
auzre drake is rotating out and it seems like there won't be a generalist 5 drop (unless people will start playing elise everywhere) so a 3/5 isn't that bad a 4/4 draw one card saw play (+1 spell damage that was or wasn't relevant).
The problem is that 1 drops stop being relevant at turn 5+ mostly
I think in a lot of classes, this is not a great card. But, if Midrange Hunter is playable, I think this is playable in that deck (probably as a 1 of) because:
- It fills a traditionally awful mana slot for the class. - It guarantees beast synergy as you transition into the mid and late game. - It's card draw in a class that has no card draw.
It's more about the class than it is the card in a vacuum.
Oh, I definitely think it being in Hunter is why I'm so intrigued by it (and maybe I wasn't super clear on that, but I was thinking about it specifically in regards to what Hunter has access to). And overall I think it's a card that's hard to really totally evaluate before we test it and see what the Un'Goro meta looks like, or what other 1-drops Hunter gets.
I guess my main concern is that this requires you to still have 1-drops in your deck to get value out of it, which means you've either saturated your list with low-value 1-drops or failed to draw 1-drops early enough in the game to make them relevant (and ended up in a losing position). I'm not sure the situations it's very good in are good situations to be in, if that makes any sense. I do think they put you in a better situation, but if I'm playing Hunter I'd rather be evaluating why I need a card to tutor for 1-drops and where else I could fix my deck's consistency.
That being said, I still think this card has a ton of potential and I could be wrong about my concerns.
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I think people are misunderstanding this a bit... it doesn't matter that you don't want 1 drops on turn 5. What this does, is assuming you're running about 3 one drops anyway, is get rid of any leftover 1 drops you have in your deck so the rest of your draws are better. It may seem back to play this on turn 5 and draw your fiery bat and alley cat, but imagine instead drawing those one at a time on later turns in a class that struggles to draw cards? You basically lose at that point.
Hunter currently tends to run 2 Alleycats and sometimes Fiery Bat. If a 3/5 body for 5 mana garantees that I won't topdeck those cards in the later stages of the game, i'm fine with that. People saying this card is crap possibly haven't played hunter in a while, but the last time I tried it, I ran 2x Tracking just to see if I could eliminate those early game minion topdecks in the late game. Can see most Midrange hunters running one copy of this card, tho I do think 2 copies is a bit overkill, as Hunter plays a fast midrange deck, and this is a slow card.
I think you guys might be missing the real problem here- tempo. Hunter wants to spam minions on curve and get maximum value out of every card. That's why hunter runs so many deathrattle cards- they have the most value and stats per card. This card is the complete opposite to what hunter needs. If it drew just cards not only minions it would have been good because then you could run it in a control deck and draw trackings and snipes. But minions? Nope. That's just not good enough. You'd have better chance winning when you play the tiger on turn 5.
Pretty much the reason why I said 2 of these in a midrange deck is overkill. If, for example, it's turn 5, I have Warden, Tiger and Highmane, of course, Tiger is better, you have a garanteed turn 6 already, and this warden + the two drops might even be an interesting turn 7. If i have 2 wardens, however, the tempo loss could lose me the game, I understand that.
Now imaginemy hand is Warden, Tiger and two random 2 drops. In this case, maybe i'd play warden and push hard for the board turn 6 with the one drops and the two drops.
But like I said, a one off can be good enough, we don't know yet, there are a lot of cards that weren't revealed yet. Maybe Blizz will reveal another draw card for Hunter this set that makes this card obsolete on the spot. But I'll definetely test this card, as I feel it can give some new options to Hunter.
1. Put plenty of 1-drops in your deck so that you actually draw them on turn 1 and but then "thin your deck" so you draw your playable cards after turn 6.
2. Put an appropriate amount of 1-drops in your deck so you either draw them early and have a useless understatted 5-drop, or you don't draw them and then play this card and draw 1-drops you don't want to play.
3. it's turn 5, 6, or 7 and shit I have no more cards, drop this and suddenly have something to play because I'm playing a fast deck and this is my highest costing card.
Those are the three scenarios I predict. In the first two....why not just play cards you actually want to play? The third one has potential.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
Card draw for Hunter? But why is it so weak? It's 1 mana overcosted, especially with those stats. If it was 1 cost CARDS it would have been good, but not this.
After the release of this card I urge mods to add another option on the "what do you think about this card" poll. I need a "This cards makes me want to quit hearthstone" option.
How can anyone not see that this card being added to the hunter class is a #$%# mockery. Here's a life fact for ya: HUNTERS WILL NEVER HAVE A GOOD CONTROL DECK. Why? Well, have you seen the hero power? #%@*, have you played the game long enough to be bored just about the sufficient amount to start doing science? The moment you go just a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiitle bit into less aggressive midrange territory, BAM! Your deck sucks.
How the flying @#$& do you expect to play a FIVE MANA 3/5 and still win that game, as a hunter? Because
YOU DON'T
This is just YET ANOTHER Shadowbomber, a card that makes ZERO sense in the class they are in, and will NEVER see play in any remotely competitive deck. In other words: a waste of time, space in the collection and ultimately your money. This is lazy and uninteresting design, this is an insult to the player base, this is them saying "yes, we will print this and you will buy packs, and this turd is going to be in some of them, sometimes even golden, so you can love it and keep it forever in your collection as a token to remember how pointless your life is"... okay, I got a little bit carried away there, but you get the point.
Why not make this as a paladin card? Hell, maybe even rogues could have better uses for getting rid of 2 dead cards and that 3/5 body. But no, make it a #@#&* hunter card.
But this card does make sense.
As much as putting Azure Drake in any deck just because it was a neutral one, this one promotes you putting one-drops into your deck and that's not bad for hunters. Its not bad to have a card that than proceeds to clean 'em out from the deck later on in the game when your class makes you want to put in probably as much early game as you can.
From a midrange perspective - of which it being the archetype I play the most - I love the card. In hunter putting in 1 drops makes sense for the early game and for the late-game, maximizing your mana whilst still being able to use Steady Shot is kinda what hunters do.
This is not a control card and I agree with that. If it was then it wouldn't make any sense. From a midrange perspective tho' it makes perfect sense;
1. You get to put in plenty of 1-drops into your deck of which hunter got a significant number of good 1-drops to pick from.
2. Even if you don't put it that many like just the Alleycats and Fiery Bats 2 of each or something like that for the early game, a single of this card is still very likely to draw 2 of 'em.
3. If you get rid of the 1 drops late game then you'll not draw 'em. Making the likelyhood of drawing cards like Savannah Highmane and Call of the Wild more likely when you need them.
4. Even in the case of you not drawing the correct late-game cards, you still have cards that you can play out in order to spend all of your mana and start to pressure your opponent with Steady Shot.
5. If you want to talk about how many cards a card like this actually draws, it effectively draws you 3 cards over the course of two turns. The 2 cards you know of will 'not' be in your deck meaning that your third draw will be 'a different card than the 2 you just drew'. This is the same math you use when you look at how much a card cycling effect is worth and... to cycle a card effectively nets you 2 cards mathematically speaking and this card nets you 3.
6. This card makes perfect sense unless you originally complained about Desert Camel the same way when that card came out.
I appreciate that you took the time to make this reasonable argument, allow me to make mine clearer so we can both understand each other better.
I think that a reasonable number of one drops being currently played in hunter decks would be 4, exactly 2 cats and 2 fire bats. You're not really going to reliably have any of them on your opener, but it is enough of a chance worth the risk of drawing too many of them in the late game. Let's start with the assumption that you're not willing to increase the number of one drops, even with the addition of this new card as a one-of (assuming that you're not going as far as to say that this is a two-of, especially because in that case you'd add more 1 drops). I'm not capable of running the math here, but my long time experience playing card games tells me that the odds of getting everything to run smoothly (a.k.a. getting one or two 1 drops in the early game > playing this card on curve, or early enough to not have drawn any remaining 1 drop in your deck) is minimal, it won't happen too often, it is less likely than playing Fandral @4 and having it survive to play nourish @5. Now, how much did you gain? A couple percentage points of not drawing that 2-3 one drops still lurking in your deck by turn 5-7, plus, hopefully, 2 (weak) cards. The sheer amount of stuff that can go south seems remarkable. Now, what are you paying for that? An highly inefficient body, to illustrate, it won't trade DOWN with the 4 mana 5/4 rogue card, that's how bad it is. That is to say, playing this card is a ginourmous tempo loss, it has no beast synergy, it poses literally no threat at all to your opponent and it doesn't help to maintain board control, not for the entire 5 mana you sinked into it.
On top of all that, now talking about stuff outside of the card, the hunter class has no support for a more value oriented game style. Cards like power shot and explosive shot are very clunky, extremely situational, there is a lack of flexibility. Mages, for instance, have their ping hero power, along with very versatile spells (frostbolt, arcane missles, arcane blast, fireball, flamestrike...), paladins have a 1/1 factory, big heal effects, equality, divine shield minions... warrior has brawl, shield slam, execute... what I'm trying to get at here is that they have cards that support that playstyle, and on top of that, hero powers that help with control/value game plans. Hunters do not, they suck balls at it.
I think you slipped on your though about the "draw 3". I might have not understood what you meant, but it seems to me you can only really make that assertion if: 1. You actually drew 2 cards (you could draw them naturally before you got a chance to play your 5 drop, either because you didn't draw it or because you didn't find the space) 2. You can't really say it drew you a third one except if you knew the card you tutored was on the top of your deck But I am a bit confused about this, so I might be wrong.
Desert camel is actually a lot different, I think. It seems to me to be an excellent tech card IF the meta is filled with greedy decks containing zero 1 drops. It also differs a lot because it actually puts the card in play, meaning you're not losing that much tempo, and maybe even getting more tempo then a 3 drop should give you (injured kvaldir).
Well, I could have formatted this a lot better, but now it's already done. Hope it gets my point of view across.
TLDR: I get it that it filters your deck and draw is a very strong mechanic, trust me I do. I don't think the card is good enough, specifically because it is in the hunter class, that has no support for the play style the card wants to promote. You're better off playing a 5/5 stealth for five mana, as a hunter.
Desert Camel even with his downside is way better than this......if it was summoning the minions directly to the field it might be useful. As for Handbuff synergy.....Paladin can kind of make Handbuff work (with the right minions) still an up hill battle though..........Hunter doesn't have the support to make a really good handbuff deck (imho, tried it a bunch and was never able to make it extremely consistent).
Paladin has Small-Time Recruits and that doesn't see play. 1-drops past turn 4 are barely useful as they make little to no impact on the board and don't offer enough pressure to warrant immediate removal.......especially with a lot of the big bad minions we have already seen from this expansion. Unless hunter quest has to do with summoning a lot of minions (or a lot of little minions) i see this guy going largely unplayed........that's just my opinion though.
This card might be better with any other class seriously Swashburglar good deal! Babbling Book good deal! Malchezaar's Imp good deal! tho you need imp earlier. Tunnel Trogg Good Deal! I hope it never come back there is still Dust Devil Tho an elemental it what makes it worth Selfless Hero Good Deal! especially to give divine shield to big drops you can use it on late turns Northshire Cleric Good Deal. Only classes which doesn't get value from this cards are Hunter,Druid and Warrior and they gave it to Hunter
Really Team 5 will you really turn Hunter into absolute trash class ? with all unplayable cards you are releasing ? Shaman dominated meta for an entire year yet gets full of love.
This is a decent card. Pulling out the worst cards in a midrange deck with 6,7 and 9 mana threats can make the late game curve very powerful (secret paladin says hi). That being said, a 3/5 for 5 is pretty weak, so im not sure of the benefits outweigh the risks.
It's not like I desperately want to abandon all the money I poured into this game (because as we all know, unlike TCG's, we're not getting it back), but I sure don't intend to pour more if they keep delivering stuff that makes no sense, or if it does, isn't explained. This isn't even debatable, the communication they have with the player base is TERRIBLE. Criticism is rarely addressed, and when it does, poorly.
Yes, I'm getting tired of this back and forth. I don't like that they feel entitled to expect us to purchase expansion bundles before they show us all the cards, not to mention the undefined release date. Am I being unreasonable here? I don't know, dude. I praise them when it is due, but I won't pretend this cards isn't a giant middle finger to the player base.
Just as situational as small-time recruits.
Its strength relies on the quantity of useful 1-drops a Hunter can include in the same deck.
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Ranked game wins per class (26/Dec/2018): Druid - 457; Hunter - 482; Mage - 345; Paladin - 435; Priest - 295; Rogue - 234; Shaman - 430; Warlock - 419; Warrior - 367
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I'm sorry, but are people actually complaining about a 2 card draw for Hunter?
na na na na na BATMAN
1. Put plenty of 1-drops in your deck so that you actually draw them on turn 1 and but then "thin your deck" so you draw your playable cards after turn 6.
2. Put an appropriate amount of 1-drops in your deck so you either draw them early and have a useless understatted 5-drop, or you don't draw them and then play this card and draw 1-drops you don't want to play.
3. it's turn 5, 6, or 7 and shit I have no more cards, drop this and suddenly have something to play because I'm playing a fast deck and this is my highest costing card.
Those are the three scenarios I predict. In the first two....why not just play cards you actually want to play? The third one has potential.
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Card draw for Hunter? But why is it so weak? It's 1 mana overcosted, especially with those stats. If it was 1 cost CARDS it would have been good, but not this.
Dat pretty bad one. Low stated card draw is not what hunter needed
\(-_-)/
I think that a reasonable number of one drops being currently played in hunter decks would be 4, exactly 2 cats and 2 fire bats.
You're not really going to reliably have any of them on your opener, but it is enough of a chance worth the risk of drawing too many of them in the late game. Let's start with the assumption that you're not willing to increase the number of one drops, even with the addition of this new card as a one-of (assuming that you're not going as far as to say that this is a two-of, especially because in that case you'd add more 1 drops). I'm not capable of running the math here, but my long time experience playing card games tells me that the odds of getting everything to run smoothly (a.k.a. getting one or two 1 drops in the early game > playing this card on curve, or early enough to not have drawn any remaining 1 drop in your deck) is minimal, it won't happen too often, it is less likely than playing Fandral @4 and having it survive to play nourish @5. Now, how much did you gain? A couple percentage points of not drawing that 2-3 one drops still lurking in your deck by turn 5-7, plus, hopefully, 2 (weak) cards. The sheer amount of stuff that can go south seems remarkable. Now, what are you paying for that? An highly inefficient body, to illustrate, it won't trade DOWN with the 4 mana 5/4 rogue card, that's how bad it is. That is to say, playing this card is a ginourmous tempo loss, it has no beast synergy, it poses literally no threat at all to your opponent and it doesn't help to maintain board control, not for the entire 5 mana you sinked into it.
On top of all that, now talking about stuff outside of the card, the hunter class has no support for a more value oriented game style. Cards like power shot and explosive shot are very clunky, extremely situational, there is a lack of flexibility. Mages, for instance, have their ping hero power, along with very versatile spells (frostbolt, arcane missles, arcane blast, fireball, flamestrike...), paladins have a 1/1 factory, big heal effects, equality, divine shield minions... warrior has brawl, shield slam, execute... what I'm trying to get at here is that they have cards that support that playstyle, and on top of that, hero powers that help with control/value game plans. Hunters do not, they suck balls at it.
I think you slipped on your though about the "draw 3". I might have not understood what you meant, but it seems to me you can only really make that assertion if:
1. You actually drew 2 cards (you could draw them naturally before you got a chance to play your 5 drop, either because you didn't draw it or because you didn't find the space)
2. You can't really say it drew you a third one except if you knew the card you tutored was on the top of your deck
But I am a bit confused about this, so I might be wrong.
Desert camel is actually a lot different, I think. It seems to me to be an excellent tech card IF the meta is filled with greedy decks containing zero 1 drops. It also differs a lot because it actually puts the card in play, meaning you're not losing that much tempo, and maybe even getting more tempo then a 3 drop should give you (injured kvaldir).
Well, I could have formatted this a lot better, but now it's already done. Hope it gets my point of view across.
TLDR: I get it that it filters your deck and draw is a very strong mechanic, trust me I do. I don't think the card is good enough, specifically because it is in the hunter class, that has no support for the play style the card wants to promote. You're better off playing a 5/5 stealth for five mana, as a hunter.
Desert Camel even with his downside is way better than this......if it was summoning the minions directly to the field it might be useful. As for Handbuff synergy.....Paladin can kind of make Handbuff work (with the right minions) still an up hill battle though..........Hunter doesn't have the support to make a really good handbuff deck (imho, tried it a bunch and was never able to make it extremely consistent).
Paladin has Small-Time Recruits and that doesn't see play. 1-drops past turn 4 are barely useful as they make little to no impact on the board and don't offer enough pressure to warrant immediate removal.......especially with a lot of the big bad minions we have already seen from this expansion. Unless hunter quest has to do with summoning a lot of minions (or a lot of little minions) i see this guy going largely unplayed........that's just my opinion though.
When life gives you lemons, trade'em for limes and get some Coronas!
Glacial Shard is not that bad with this one
This card might be better with any other class seriously Swashburglar good deal! Babbling Book good deal! Malchezaar's Imp good deal! tho you need imp earlier. Tunnel Trogg Good Deal! I hope it never come back there is still Dust Devil Tho an elemental it what makes it worth Selfless Hero Good Deal! especially to give divine shield to big drops you can use it on late turns Northshire Cleric Good Deal. Only classes which doesn't get value from this cards are Hunter,Druid and Warrior and they gave it to Hunter
Really Team 5 will you really turn Hunter into absolute trash class ? with all unplayable cards you are releasing ? Shaman dominated meta for an entire year yet gets full of love.
"What have you got there,
PinocchioMalygos?"If aggro or a combo hunter wil be a think, this card will be in it.
.