Having played around with Mayor Noggenfogger, I have come to a conclusion. No matter how many minions my opponent has that could be chosen randomly when he attacks or casts spells, it always chooses a target on my side of the board.
In my opinion this takes Noggenfogger from "not competitively viable" to "dead card", and I am really disappointed because I thought it was an attempt at a card for the fun and noncompetitive deck style.
Does anyone have different experiences with Noggenfogger?
I think the way it's supposed to be is randomly targeted out of all possible options. If you attack the enemy with a minion that minion can only hit something on the other side of the board
Only things that can be targeted are chosen so fireball could hit your own face while a minion can only hit an enemy that can be targeted with the exception of taunt
Also keep in mind that target restrictions still apply. So if there are 14 minions on the board, and mayor is the only one with 5 attack and your opponent plays Shadow Word: Death, the Mayor will die 100% of the time
Only things that can be targeted are chosen so fireball could hit your own face while a minion can only hit an enemy that can be targeted with the exception of taunt
This really bugs me. Normally if my opponent has minion 1 with taunt and minion 2 without, I can't target minion 2 in an attack, so why can my minions hit minion 2 with noggenfogger if it is not a valid target? Likewise, Noggenfogger should not allow anything to target an enemy stealth minion but it does. It should be total random chaos (anything can hit anything). Right now, its design seems really inconsistent to me, and it's not worth playing because of it.
You're as cold as ice, Unwilling Sacrifice our love You never take advice, someday you'll Skulking Geist, I know I've seen it before, It happens all the time Eater of Secrets You leave Ice Block behind You're digging for gold, Yet Tracking away A fortune in feelings, but "It's time to pay"!
That's why if you ever use him, you'd only use him in Zoo so your opponent only hits the tokens. Then when you're ready, suicide him into something and to a wombo combo burst attack to your opponent's face (RIP Power Overwhelming)
He's restricted to legal targets so he wouldn't just be little more than a reprint of Mogor, the Ogre.
He's not though. An enemy minion with stealth or behind taunt is never a legal target.
That happens with fools bane too. Opponents face is not a valid target. Inconsistent text.
This is where people get confused. There is a difference between something being target-able and something being a legal target. You can't target a minion if it has stealth or another minion with taunt is in the way, but it can be targeted randomly, like your Auctioneer being destroyed by Deadly Shot.
He's restricted to legal targets so he wouldn't just be little more than a reprint of Mogor, the Ogre.
He's not though. An enemy minion with stealth or behind taunt is never a legal target.
That happens with fools bane too. Opponents face is not a valid target. Inconsistent text.
This is where people get confused. There is a difference between something being target-able and something being a legal target. You can't target a minion if it has stealth or another minion with taunt is in the way, but it can be targeted randomly, like your Auctioneer being destroyed by Deadly Shot.
I'm not sure I get the distinction. Targeting only comes into play when a player must choose a target for some action. Deadly Shot does not involve targeting at all. because there is no player choice. Cards like Misdirection and Ogre Brute are worded in a way that they do no involve targeting---their effects kick in after targets are chosen. There is no card other than the mayor that affects targeting by attacking minions (yogg, etc., are spells only) and the point is, going strictly by the what defines a "target" for an attacking minion, the Mayor does not works as expected because stealth minions and enemies behind taunt are not valid targets for an attacking minion. The card should read "spell and hero power targets chosen randomly. Character attacks hit random enemies." I guess that's too wordy, so Blizzard used shorter vague text instead.
For example, lets say Blizzard released a minion with the text "can only attack minions with at least 5 attack." The way Mayor works now, this minion would have its text ignored and could randomly hit any minion, like an ogre, which inconsistent with the way mayor works with spells like Shadow Word: Death, which would only hit minions with 5+ attack.
He's restricted to legal targets so he wouldn't just be little more than a reprint of Mogor, the Ogre.
He's not though. An enemy minion with stealth or behind taunt is never a legal target.
That happens with fools bane too. Opponents face is not a valid target. Inconsistent text.
This is where people get confused. There is a difference between something being target-able and something being a legal target. You can't target a minion if it has stealth or another minion with taunt is in the way, but it can be targeted randomly, like your Auctioneer being destroyed by Deadly Shot.
I'm not sure I get the distinction. Targeting only comes into play when a player must choose a target for some action. Deadly Shot does not involve targeting at all. because there is no player choice. Cards like Misdirection and Ogre Brute are worded in a way that they do no involve targeting---their effects kick in after targets are chosen. There is no card other than the mayor that affects targeting by attacking minions (yogg, etc., are spells only) and the point is, going strictly by the what defines a "target" for an attacking minion, the Mayor does not works as expected because stealth minions and enemies behind taunt are not valid targets for an attacking minion. The card should read "spell and hero power targets chosen randomly. Character attacks hit random enemies." I guess that's too wordy, so Blizzard used shorter vague text instead.
For example, lets say Blizzard released a minion with the text "can only attack minions with at least 5 attack." The way Mayor works now, this minion would have its text ignored and could randomly hit any minion, like an ogre, which inconsistent with the way mayor works with spells like Shadow Word: Death, which would only hit minions with 5+ attack.
Though I think he does have an aspect of non-randomness - it seems like whatever you target will not get hit. so if there is one minion on board and your face - if you target the minion with your minion, it will hit face every time. so it actually bypasses big taunts which is kind of interesting.
Though I think he does have an aspect of non-randomness - it seems like whatever you target will not get hit. so if there is one minion on board and your face - if you target the minion with your minion, it will hit face every time. so it actually bypasses big taunts which is kind of interesting.
Nope, not how it works. Mayor Noggenfogger can and sometimes does allow you to hit the thing you targeted. Just because you haven't seen a thing, doesn't mean that thing never happens.
As for the complaints about the wording "All targets are chosen randomly," the word random is right there. It's important to distinguish between the act of targeting and the concept of "target," as in "recipient of an effect." Under Noggenfogger, effects are no longer "targeted," per se. They are "chosen randomly," which is the exact opposite of "targeted." Targets (recipients of effects) that are chosen randomly have always ignored taunt and stealth, even if they have other targeting rules (such as enemy, friendly, or minions in general).
In other words, taunt and stealth keep a thing from being "targeted," but they don't remove it from the list of legal targets. The protected entity is still a legal recipient for effects; the keyword only prevents you from selecting it during the targeting step.
Though I think he does have an aspect of non-randomness - it seems like whatever you target will not get hit. so if there is one minion on board and your face - if you target the minion with your minion, it will hit face every time. so it actually bypasses big taunts which is kind of interesting.
Nope, not how it works. Mayor Noggenfogger can and sometimes does allow you to hit the thing you targeted. Just because you haven't seen a thing, doesn't mean that thing never happens.
As for the complaints about the wording "All targets are chosen randomly," the word random is right there. It's important to distinguish between the act of targeting and the concept of "target," as in "recipient of an effect." Under Noggenfogger, effects are no longer "targeted," per se. They are "chosen randomly," which is the exact opposite of "targeted." Targets (recipients of effects) that are chosen randomly have always ignored taunt and stealth, even if they have other targeting rules (such as enemy, friendly, or minions in general).
In other words, taunt and stealth keep a thing from being "targeted," but they don't remove it from the list of legal targets. The protected entity is still a legal recipient for effects; the keyword only prevents you from selecting it during the targeting step.
haha, that makes perfect sense and is just the kind of convoluted (but completely logical) way it would work out in hearthstone. Well played
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Having played around with Mayor Noggenfogger, I have come to a conclusion. No matter how many minions my opponent has that could be chosen randomly when he attacks or casts spells, it always chooses a target on my side of the board.
In my opinion this takes Noggenfogger from "not competitively viable" to "dead card", and I am really disappointed because I thought it was an attempt at a card for the fun and noncompetitive deck style.
Does anyone have different experiences with Noggenfogger?
I think the way it's supposed to be is randomly targeted out of all possible options. If you attack the enemy with a minion that minion can only hit something on the other side of the board
Only things that can be targeted are chosen so fireball could hit your own face while a minion can only hit an enemy that can be targeted with the exception of taunt
[img]http://www.hearthcards.net/cards/1d8ce5eb.png[/img]
Also keep in mind that target restrictions still apply. So if there are 14 minions on the board, and mayor is the only one with 5 attack and your opponent plays Shadow Word: Death, the Mayor will die 100% of the time
Here is an example.
You're as cold as ice, Unwilling Sacrifice our love
You never take advice, someday you'll Skulking Geist, I know
I've seen it before,
It happens all the time
Eater of Secrets
You leave Ice Block behind
You're digging for gold, Yet Tracking away
A fortune in feelings, but "It's time to pay"!
It's worth playing in mill or jade decks, where freeze mage, maly rogue or some other combo could take you out.
Mess with the best & die like the rest.
He's restricted to legal targets so he wouldn't just be little more than a reprint of Mogor, the Ogre.
It should be a battlecry
Oh, i would have thought it worked like misdirection for attacks
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
Name checks out lol
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That's why if you ever use him, you'd only use him in Zoo so your opponent only hits the tokens. Then when you're ready, suicide him into something and to a wombo combo burst attack to your opponent's face (RIP Power Overwhelming)
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
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