While Kor'kron and Arcanite are definitely powerful cards for this deck archetype, I've seen many Pirate Warrior matches end by turn 4-5 because of a strong one drop with Patches the Pirate into coin and another strong one drop, followed up by two more one cost cards or a two cost like Bloodsail Raider, followed by a Frothing Berserker or Bloodsail Cultist, followed up by a Kor'kron or a combination of 2+2 costs or 3+1 costs, and so on.
Keep in mind, both Kor'kron and Arcanite are Basic cards, which are among the earliest cards designed for Hearthstone. The standard of power in a card has changed fairly significantly since then, but as these cards were not really considered until aggressive warriors were considered (sometime after Control and Patron were phased out), they weren't played so much; at least, not nearly as much as they are right now.
The synergies of the pirates far outweigh the card-for-card values in the deck.
You can smash the hell out of a Whelp if you have a weapon though. Face Warrior wasn't anywhere near Tier 1 before the pirates were introduced, although they had both Korkron and Arcanite. That says something.
Indeed, the First Mate isn't OP before but now the synergy with Small-time Buccaneer and Patches is just insane. Most of the time you don't care about the weapon at all and just override it with a better one, but having an extra 1 drop to pull out Patches, enable Buccaneer attack and a turn 3 Bloodsail Cultist is huge. The problem is the early synergy of the deck is just overwhelming with the weapons . Pirate Rogue has kinda the same synergy but not enough weapons, see how worse it performs.
these 2 cards are the main reason pirate warrior can rush down players without a chance
It's their early game that's the real problem rather than their mid game. You are almost dead by turn 4 or 5. We believe it's their fiery war axe and berserker that will have their costs bumped by 1 mana. It's indeed possible Kor'kron elite and arcanite may also get nerfed in addition. If so, he will become a 3/4 and arcanite will cost 6.
The problem with your argument is that these existed before small-time buccaneer and aggro Warrior wasn't a tier 1 deck so no their not the problem, that was a clever swerve though
The problem with your argument is that these existed before small-time buccaneer and aggro Warrior wasn't a tier 1 deck so no their not the problem, that was a clever swerve though
all warrior needed tho for them to shine was decent early game. Now we see how ridiculously strong charge and direct weapon damage is
I played pirate warrior myself and every game the real damage push came with Kor'kron Elite and Arcanite Reaper Usually the enemy had time to deal with the early game i dropped being around 20 life.
The problem are the weapons. Upgrade! is broken a broken card, Bloodsail Cultist is worth the mana for the body itself, adding +1/+1 to the weapon: power creepy.
Imagine a turn 3 where Fiery War Axe and Upgrade! are playable together at same turn: a 3/2 weapon turns into 4/3, it's going from 6 damage potential to 12 by just 1 single crystal of mana. Add the little pirate girl next turn,...
Upgrade! has to cost more and do only what it's name says, upgrading should be like multiplication: anything times zero is always zero. The 1/3 weapon is not the problem by itself, but working as a cheap activator can be problematic. Even then Small-Time Buccaneer still will be able to have his buff active the whole game. Cultist needs a look too, maybe a 1 dimensional upgrade only would be fine.
That's the secret of playing against Pirate Warrior: if you don't let the weapons snowball, they stand little chance.
these 2 cards are the main reason pirate warrior can rush down players without a chance
It's their early game that's the real problem rather than their mid game. You are almost dead by turn 4 or 5. We believe it's their fiery war axe and berserker that will have their costs bumped by 1 mana. It's indeed possible Kor'kron elite and arcanite may also get nerfed in addition. If so, he will become a 3/4 and arcanite will cost 6.
How about nerfing Small time brokeneer and call it a day? Fiery War Axe is perfectly fine, the issue is the amount of +1/+1 that warrior have.
I'm kinda repeating it everywhere, but I'm genuinely convinced the real fix is making Small-Time Buccaneer a Rogue class card.
Swap it with Luckydo Buccaneer as neutral, also for rarity if necessary.
This would bring Pirate Warrior to pre-MSG status (still pretty strong), and with the important addition of patches the pirate, nonetheless. Aggro Shaman would be less annoying. Rogue would stay exactly the same, which is currently perfectly balanced (see meta snapshots).
Problem is this would be a "clunky" fix. So I'm afraid they'll never implement such a solution. They'll likely kill STB to dust, and ruin the only good addition Rogue got in the last expansion in the process (and Pirate warrior will still be THE deck, exactly as Shaman was post-nerf). And answer to Rogues with the usual "see you next expansion".
All of this crap about pirates and the only REAL nerf that should be done is just STOP increasing weapon durability. Everything that buffs a weapon should just be changed to +1 damage...no durability. Period. That will stop all the stupid cancer and whining from everyone. The deck's strength is the weapons, stop allowing them to stay around forever. Get rid of the increased durability and you'll see it'll be much easier to play against. You may tech against one weapon, but they will mindlessly replace it with a new one and buff that one. Just stop allowing it to stay so stupid sticky.
They shoild just make every weapon and charge minion unable to hit face the turn they are played, that way they make sure that games won't end in turn 4/5 anymore (but this might kill aggro completely so maybe is not the best of the ideas)
I mostly see complains about being rushed down by pirate warrior not rogue or shaman with pirates
the real problems are Kor'kron Elite which should not have charge
And Arcanite Reaper that should cost 6 mana
these 2 cards are the main reason pirate warrior can rush down players without a chance
Had to much salt for breakfast?
-let´s negotiate: you concede and I let you live...
While Kor'kron and Arcanite are definitely powerful cards for this deck archetype, I've seen many Pirate Warrior matches end by turn 4-5 because of a strong one drop with Patches the Pirate into coin and another strong one drop, followed up by two more one cost cards or a two cost like Bloodsail Raider, followed by a Frothing Berserker or Bloodsail Cultist, followed up by a Kor'kron or a combination of 2+2 costs or 3+1 costs, and so on.
Keep in mind, both Kor'kron and Arcanite are Basic cards, which are among the earliest cards designed for Hearthstone. The standard of power in a card has changed fairly significantly since then, but as these cards were not really considered until aggressive warriors were considered (sometime after Control and Patron were phased out), they weren't played so much; at least, not nearly as much as they are right now.
The synergies of the pirates far outweigh the card-for-card values in the deck.
No im just sad they talking about nerfing Small-Time Buccaneer. It trades with a Twilight Whelp IF you can draw a weapon. which should be fine.
You can smash the hell out of a Whelp if you have a weapon though. Face Warrior wasn't anywhere near Tier 1 before the pirates were introduced, although they had both Korkron and Arcanite. That says something.
RenoJackson#11673
That may be true. In that case I would like to propose that the overpowered card is N'Zoth's First Mate
Indeed, the First Mate isn't OP before but now the synergy with Small-time Buccaneer and Patches is just insane. Most of the time you don't care about the weapon at all and just override it with a better one, but having an extra 1 drop to pull out Patches, enable Buccaneer attack and a turn 3 Bloodsail Cultist is huge. The problem is the early synergy of the deck is just overwhelming with the weapons . Pirate Rogue has kinda the same synergy but not enough weapons, see how worse it performs.
RenoJackson#11673
The problem is Blizz refuses to release anti-aggro neutral cards.
Maybe a ramp druid deck could over power pirate decks such as these?
The problem with your argument is that these existed before small-time buccaneer and aggro Warrior wasn't a tier 1 deck so no their not the problem, that was a clever swerve though
Hearthstone is a game of "copy and pasting"
so clueless.
The problem are the weapons. Upgrade! is broken a broken card, Bloodsail Cultist is worth the mana for the body itself, adding +1/+1 to the weapon: power creepy.
Imagine a turn 3 where Fiery War Axe and Upgrade! are playable together at same turn: a 3/2 weapon turns into 4/3, it's going from 6 damage potential to 12 by just 1 single crystal of mana. Add the little pirate girl next turn,...
Upgrade! has to cost more and do only what it's name says, upgrading should be like multiplication: anything times zero is always zero. The 1/3 weapon is not the problem by itself, but working as a cheap activator can be problematic. Even then Small-Time Buccaneer still will be able to have his buff active the whole game. Cultist needs a look too, maybe a 1 dimensional upgrade only would be fine.
That's the secret of playing against Pirate Warrior: if you don't let the weapons snowball, they stand little chance.
I'm kinda repeating it everywhere, but I'm genuinely convinced the real fix is making Small-Time Buccaneer a Rogue class card.
Swap it with Luckydo Buccaneer as neutral, also for rarity if necessary.
This would bring Pirate Warrior to pre-MSG status (still pretty strong), and with the important addition of patches the pirate, nonetheless.
Aggro Shaman would be less annoying.
Rogue would stay exactly the same, which is currently perfectly balanced (see meta snapshots).
Problem is this would be a "clunky" fix.
So I'm afraid they'll never implement such a solution. They'll likely kill STB to dust, and ruin the only good addition Rogue got in the last expansion in the process (and Pirate warrior will still be THE deck, exactly as Shaman was post-nerf).
And answer to Rogues with the usual "see you next expansion".
All of this crap about pirates and the only REAL nerf that should be done is just STOP increasing weapon durability. Everything that buffs a weapon should just be changed to +1 damage...no durability. Period. That will stop all the stupid cancer and whining from everyone. The deck's strength is the weapons, stop allowing them to stay around forever. Get rid of the increased durability and you'll see it'll be much easier to play against. You may tech against one weapon, but they will mindlessly replace it with a new one and buff that one. Just stop allowing it to stay so stupid sticky.
They shoild just make every weapon and charge minion unable to hit face the turn they are played, that way they make sure that games won't end in turn 4/5 anymore (but this might kill aggro completely so maybe is not the best of the ideas)