Hearthpwn

Quote from stormcry0 >>

Quote from brilliant_gnome >>

 

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 There was a time when paladin crushed shaman because their hero power so perfectly countered shaman's hero power.

And OP: I think the trouble-cards is Tuskarr. The rest can be planned for, but Tuskarr steamrolls too many games.

 But all in all it's more a combination of "all of the above" more than one single card. The combined value is too great. We've all played a lot against shamans and we know how it is: You run out of answers, because they drop too much value way too consistently.

 

 You give an example of exactly why shaman is not a problem really. Shaman haven't changed much since LoE, the only real card it got is thing from below.

"you run out of answers" This is the real problem, when you can't simply react properly to what your opponent is doing then we have problems, the lack or actual, real, good removal outside of warrior is the real issue. I've played with and against:

Aggro shaman, midrange shaman, aggro hunter (wasted time lol), deathrattle hunter, secret hunter, deathrattle paladin, tempo mage, control mage, dragon warrior, c'thun warrior, c'thun druid, token druid and the horrible zoolock (I want so much demolock to be a thing again :'( )

And after all that what I've learned is that outside of warrior and a very unreliable board wipe in paladin, there are too few multi-target removal in standard, wich leades to board-fill strategies to dominate the game. People wouldn't fill their board if enough clears existed and some minions would lose 1 stat point (like lowering all hunter's pets by 1 stat or making flamewreathed a 5/6)

Quote from brilliant_gnome >>

 

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 If one card puts a class over the top, that card isn't necessarily the main culprit. That's flawed logic.

 But as said, I think it's more the combination of cards than one single card. Personally, if I had to remove one... I would remove Tuskarr, since that card is just a "win 30% of the time" button in so many matches.

 

I really disagree that only 1 card is causing the shaman class to be a problem on the ladder. The problem is that before standard board clears were readily available for many classes for cheap! Because of that, aside from zoolock, most classes where severely punished for overextending and flooding the board. But in standard, flooding the board isn't just encouraged, it's what makes a lot of the current legend decks. 

Combine that with the new cards they got in Whispers of the Old Gods and Karazhan, and yeah, you're gonna end up with a class that empties their hand, fills the board, overloads and doesn't care that they do. No real counter comes to mind to punish the shamans for overextending so often. 

So I can't imagine anything changing if we nerf/change 1 card in their class. 

Ou guys are just BabyRagers who wants to win games i remember how people were complaining about miraclerogue, oil rogue ,dragon tempo prist, face shaman there will allways be broken classes this is how game works you can'tjust make every card balanced. Stop crying about shamans andplay tb-arena or wild 

Relax guys, shaman's signature turn 1-3 plays are going away for good in april.

It's easy ask which one is ok

Doomhammer is ok, but all the others are very unbalanced

Quote from tictactucroc >>

Quote from brilliant_gnome >>

Quote from stormcry0 >>

Quote from brilliant_gnome >>

 

...

 

 There was a time when paladin crushed shaman because their hero power so perfectly countered shaman's hero power.

And OP: I think the trouble-cards is Tuskarr. The rest can be planned for, but Tuskarr steamrolls too many games.

 But all in all it's more a combination of "all of the above" more than one single card. The combined value is too great. We've all played a lot against shamans and we know how it is: You run out of answers, because they drop too much value way too consistently.

 

 You give an example of exactly why shaman is not a problem really. Shaman haven't changed much since LoE, the only real card it got is thing from below.

"you run out of answers" This is the real problem, when you can't simply react properly to what your opponent is doing then we have problems, the lack or actual, real, good removal outside of warrior is the real issue. I've played with and against:

Aggro shaman, midrange shaman, aggro hunter (wasted time lol), deathrattle hunter, secret hunter, deathrattle paladin, tempo mage, control mage, dragon warrior, c'thun warrior, c'thun druid, token druid and the horrible zoolock (I want so much demolock to be a thing again :'( )

And after all that what I've learned is that outside of warrior and a very unreliable board wipe in paladin, there are too few multi-target removal in standard, wich leades to board-fill strategies to dominate the game. People wouldn't fill their board if enough clears existed and some minions would lose 1 stat point (like lowering all hunter's pets by 1 stat or making flamewreathed a 5/6)

 If one card puts a class over the top, that card isn't necessarily the main culprit. That's flawed logic.

 But as said, I think it's more the combination of cards than one single card. Personally, if I had to remove one... I would remove Tuskarr, since that card is just a "win 30% of the time" button in so many matches.

 

 Tuskkar is also a "lose 70% of the time" in most matches. There's nothing wrong with this card. It's a terribly designed card, but clearly not what makes Shaman so strong.

Quote from brilliant_gnome >>

 

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 Lolwhut? It is no such thing at all. 

Thankfully, it is now being nerfed, which indicates I was right.