Yogg has very little to do with RNG. It's almost everything about deckbuilding, correct plays and drawing cards (the spells Yogg throws). If you don't complain about the small size of RNG when you draw a card that won you the game, don't complain about Yogg, since it's exactly the same thing, with the difference that Yogg can be bad.
P.S. A former Magic player (who had won prizes) should most definely know that.
"Yogg has a very little to do with RNG" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA dude, wtf. I literally lost my breath, you won the internet!
Glad I made you laugh so hard. Eventually you will learn the difference of RNG like coinflip (dumb luck) and "RNG" like Yogg provides. Until then, keep laughing - it does good for your health :)
Glad I made you laugh so hard. Eventually you will learn the difference of RNG like coinflip (dumb luck) and "RNG" like Yogg provides. Until then, keep laughing - it does good for your health :)
Dear sir, care to elaborate? Do not leave us all in the dark, enlighten us! What kind of RNG does Yogg provide?
Glad I made you laugh so hard. Eventually you will learn the difference of RNG like coinflip (dumb luck) and "RNG" like Yogg provides. Until then, keep laughing - it does good for your health :)
Glad I made you laugh so hard. Eventually you will learn the difference of RNG like coinflip (dumb luck) and "RNG" like Yogg provides. Until then, keep laughing - it does good for your health :)
Let me see if I got your point. Do you agree that it's RNG but say it isn't RNG because it is not 50/50, ok... I guess? Decks aren't even built around yogg, dude. It's just a "damn, I lost the game, let me drop this not even dumb card and see if I can steal the win". People like to watch someone getting rekt, that's why they love this card in tournaments, but ask if they love yogg after losing games just because the opponent dropped it.
Bro, I spent like my last day trying to explain that to you. Some people agreed with me, some didn't. You know, it's just reading. Doesn't hurt.
Maybe my explanation wasn't good or complete, nevertheless, it was clear.
To the other guy.... Zzzz:
This is the point of the "a magic player with experience should know this" comments by the way. You shouldn't look at this card in a vacuum, and say "man he's OP, look at all the spells he's created, I was ahead on board!". You should say "would I have been ahead on board if he'd been playing minions, or is it because his deck is 70% spells so of course I have more minions than him!!".
Bro, I spent like my last day trying to explain that to you. Some people agreed with me, some didn't. You know, it's just reading. Doesn't hurt.
Maybe my explanation wasn't good or complete, nevertheless, it was clear.
OK, I hoped you could explain better why you put on the same RNG par the winning topdecked card to a lucky YOGG play THAT TURNS A LOST GAME INTO A WIN. This "same thing, bro" still puzzles and eludes me. Anyway, thanks for your precious time spent.
Dude. Be angry at Worgen combo, then. Be angry at freeze mage. Yogg can do things, other cards can do things. There are a lot of other cards that consolidate a board turn better than yogg unless in very specific and unlikely situations. Just sit down and think for 5 sec.
One could also argue that yogg is just played due to the ridiculous lack of decent removal in this game. If druid for example would have a decent board clear like twisting nether they would propably run this over yogg.
its realy kinda unbelievable that we have a discussion if a 10 mana RNG maybe boardwipe that can loose you the game, thats a legendary and that requires you to run half deck of spells is OP RNG wise.
My guess would be that some people already have forgotten what a turnback mechanism is since Dev team is sleeping on this.
It must be something like": Man I vometed every minion on curve at the board and now he clears! WTF?! OP"
Dude. Be angry at Worgen combo, then. Be angry at freeze mage. Yogg can do things, other cards can do things. There are a lot of other cards that consolidate a board turn better than yogg unless in very specific and unlikely situations. Just sit down and think for 5 sec.
Those decks are tuned to do that specific thing. I accept that, and I think is good design. I even like playing around RNG effects, such as Sylvanas or Ragnaros. I just think that Yogg RNG is a bad designed one, and I still refuse to put it on par as a topdecked Kill Command and such. You can play around a topdecked Kill Command by having tons of heals, how can you counterplay and avoid a horrible turnaround from Yogg? Like, my opponent from zero cards to full hand, his board from empty to full, my full board wiped out? Where is the counterplay to that?
BTW the last time I met a Yogg was in a tempo mage, who for sure has no problems having access to board wipes. But for sure he likes to have a card that can save his butt by flipping a coin and winning a lost game.
You make a fool out of yourself I don't think that was your idea when creating this Yogg cry topic
No, I created this topic to have some insight about what I think it is a really bad card design that can be very harmful to Heartstone in the medium long run, and also to exchange PoVs about it. What is YOUR idea when replying on the topic in such a useless and offending way? I was expecting more friendliness and seriousness from dutch people.
Medium long run? The card cycles out of standard in a relatively short time... Stop exaggerating everything to try and validate your opinion. It only reduces what little credibility there is to this.
Also, Yogg is by far one of the best designed cards in this game.
I think you have to understand the main reason this game exist is that it makes a profit. If u are skilled, experienced player you can be flustrated about the RNG because randominess is making your skill less decisive so its lower you chances to win. But this game is alredy really hard at the beggining (i mean for new players who dont plays ccg) and not having good cards is making it even harder. RNG lowers the dificulity of the game Its giving some chanchces for newbies so they can enjoy the game so they can spend their money to buy adventures etc. After all the maing goal for Blizzard is to make as many money as possible and thats why HS it is and it will be partly based at randominess.
The problem with Yogg is that there is no actual counterplay. Trying to win the game before turn 10 is not an actual counterplay, if you can do that, you do so anyways, this game plan has nothing to do with Yogg. Speaking of game plans, whats really a Yogg deck's plan? Survive until T10 and then boom lets see what happens? This doesnt sound like something that is acceptable outside casual play.
You really don't understand a Yogg deck that is not 100% all in on Yogg. Those are casual decks. The OP is addressing it in terms of competitive decks, which you clearly don't understand its role and thus your perceived angst against it.
Dude. Be angry at Worgen combo, then. Be angry at freeze mage. Yogg can do things, other cards can do things. There are a lot of other cards that consolidate a board turn better than yogg unless in very specific and unlikely situations. Just sit down and think for 5 sec.
Is there really a need to insult the OP in every comment you make? I'm not saying that I don't agree with you but seriously, I've been reading this thread and you've called him a noob or some other in almost every comment you made. At least the OP isn't substituting good arguments with personal insults...
There is a counter for yogg, and that's a beat down. Yogg will almost always take a luttle while to start really killing everything, and in that time there's a reasonable chance that your opponent will blast himself in the face with a damage spell. Pretty soon afterwards of course, heal and armor will kick in from yogg, but almost every time a Saron player will take 3-6 damage before then.
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GENERATION 40: The first time you see this, copy it into your signature on any forum and add 1 to the generation. This is a social experiment.
is it so hard to understand why people dont like the card being in competitive play? im priest my opponent is paladin, i understand that i need to have a gameplan against tirion by either stealing him with sylvanas + death or entombing him. if my opponent is anyfin i know i need to entomb all of his murlocks to not get anyfinned. there is no gameplan towards a yogg. you basically just hope they dont draw him.
there should be counterplay for everything, thats generally how card games work.
Let's help ourselves with another example: take a longish boardgame, Risk/Settlers of Cataan/Agricola/Puerto Rico. You play for like, 2-3 hours... one is clearly winning, others are fighting at their best, one is struggling bad and clearly losing. What if the losing player plays a card that says: "Flip a coin=win the game"? Would you consider this good design? Would you be satisfied with the outcome? Would you say good game, 'twas fun? Just some food to thought. Since I am an avid and experienced boardgamer, cardgamer and playtester I like to study games from a good/bad design PoV.
I don't feel that describes Yogg. I've played against it, I've also played with it. You can play around it by not over committing just like you play around any board wipe type card. I've had plenty of opponents who've forced me to drop Yogg against a single minion turning him into a 10 mana removal card.
I've also seen people kill themselves with Yogg, and I've killed myself with him. I've seen him get played and essentially do nothing significant to change who was winning.
It is an epically powerful card, but so are the two of the other Old Gods. N'zoth can turn a game on its head without any problem. I've done it many times and there is little to no "chance" it fails. You just get a full board of death-rattle minions, usually including a taunt that clears all small minions from the board. It's devastating. C'thune can wipe your opponents board and give you a massive minion without doing one scrap of harm to your board. DOOM often does exactly what Yogg is played to do but works every time, clearing the board and giving you a hand full of cards to get back the game with. Deathwing does much the same though at a dangerous cost. (though most will play him with as empty a hand as possible.
I think there are different kinds of card games with different feels. I've played tons of the damned things because I love them so. There are those that have a slow methodical pace. Those that feature dramatic asymmetry in play strategies. Those that have incredibly dramatic swings based on single cards. Those that are all about who has the most rares. Those that reward incredibly thoughtful play. Those that are almost entirely about deck building. And so on....
Hearthstone is a fairly swingy card game wich tries to keep the play fast and somewhat unpredictable. It's a game about reacting to an ever-changing situation rather than one where you methodically plot moves well in advance. Clearly they don't want you to be sure what is going to happen next or be able to establish yourself in a position where you are guaranteed to grind out a win despite many more turns remaining. There are no "blue" decks in hearthstone, at least not many (freeze mage can be like that, or CW). But the Hearthstone designers clearly aren't angling for that kind of play even if they allow it. They want a game of wild shifts of control and unpredictable card outcomes.
Some have brought up poker and some had said its not a good analogy. Here is where it is similar. In poker you have many unknowns and you decide actions based on probabilities. Same goes here. Lots can change in a heartstone game and sometimes a good card just ends you or a card that has a lucky effect. You just have to do your best to roll with the punches and make plays based on what is or is not likely.
You don't win a game of hearthstone until the last life is gone. A full board and a big life total may stack the odds in your favor, but it is no guarantee. You haven't won that game until the last moment. Some folks hate that idea, they want every turn in their advantage to stack on and make victory down the road certain. Others want there to always be hope that next card draw could turn things around. Hearthstone isn't all one or the other but it's a little more in the latter than the former for sure. I think whether Yogg is too far is a matter of taste and preference. No wrong view, but I certainly don't feel like I'm determining the outcome of the game any more or less with Yogg than with Brawl.
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Check out my gaming blog: Downy Owlbear Designs and download free P&P games. Or argue with me about games on Qallout, the video debate site.
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Glad I made you laugh so hard. Eventually you will learn the difference of RNG like coinflip (dumb luck) and "RNG" like Yogg provides. Until then, keep laughing - it does good for your health :)
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Corvus oculum corvi non eruit.
Glad I made you laugh so hard. Eventually you will learn the difference of RNG like coinflip (dumb luck) and "RNG" like Yogg provides. Until then, keep laughing - it does good for your health :)
Bro, I spent like my last day trying to explain that to you. Some people agreed with me, some didn't. You know, it's just reading. Doesn't hurt.
Maybe my explanation wasn't good or complete, nevertheless, it was clear.
To the other guy.... Zzzz:
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Corvus oculum corvi non eruit.
Dude. Be angry at Worgen combo, then. Be angry at freeze mage. Yogg can do things, other cards can do things. There are a lot of other cards that consolidate a board turn better than yogg unless in very specific and unlikely situations. Just sit down and think for 5 sec.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Corvus oculum corvi non eruit.
One could also argue that yogg is just played due to the ridiculous lack of decent removal in this game. If druid for example would have a decent board clear like twisting nether they would propably run this over yogg.
its realy kinda unbelievable that we have a discussion if a 10 mana RNG maybe boardwipe that can loose you the game, thats a legendary and that requires you to run half deck of spells is OP RNG wise.
My guess would be that some people already have forgotten what a turnback mechanism is since Dev team is sleeping on this.
It must be something like": Man I vometed every minion on curve at the board and now he clears! WTF?! OP"
I think you have to understand the main reason this game exist is that it makes a profit. If u are skilled, experienced player you can be flustrated about the RNG because randominess is making your skill less decisive so its lower you chances to win. But this game is alredy really hard at the beggining (i mean for new players who dont plays ccg) and not having good cards is making it even harder. RNG lowers the dificulity of the game Its giving some chanchces for newbies so they can enjoy the game so they can spend their money to buy adventures etc. After all the maing goal for Blizzard is to make as many money as possible and thats why HS it is and it will be partly based at randominess.
Sorry for bad english
When my opponent plays Yogg I win half the time. I think its a fun card that mixes things up.
There is a counter for yogg, and that's a beat down. Yogg will almost always take a luttle while to start really killing everything, and in that time there's a reasonable chance that your opponent will blast himself in the face with a damage spell. Pretty soon afterwards of course, heal and armor will kick in from yogg, but almost every time a Saron player will take 3-6 damage before then.
GENERATION 40: The first time you see this, copy it into your signature on any forum and add 1 to the generation. This is a social experiment.
What is OP on about? There's no rng in yogg.
is it so hard to understand why people dont like the card being in competitive play? im priest my opponent is paladin, i understand that i need to have a gameplan against tirion by either stealing him with sylvanas + death or entombing him. if my opponent is anyfin i know i need to entomb all of his murlocks to not get anyfinned. there is no gameplan towards a yogg. you basically just hope they dont draw him.
there should be counterplay for everything, thats generally how card games work.
this just happened in a HS tournament....
watch the clip and the comments. https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/4ywoxo/htc_spoilers_yogg_in_competitive_hearthstone/
another insightful article: http://www.dailydot.com/esports/yogg-saron-competitive-hearthstone/
this just happened: https://clips.twitch.tv/playhearthstone/MuddyQuailSuperVinlin
I've also seen people kill themselves with Yogg, and I've killed myself with him. I've seen him get played and essentially do nothing significant to change who was winning.
It is an epically powerful card, but so are the two of the other Old Gods. N'zoth can turn a game on its head without any problem. I've done it many times and there is little to no "chance" it fails. You just get a full board of death-rattle minions, usually including a taunt that clears all small minions from the board. It's devastating. C'thune can wipe your opponents board and give you a massive minion without doing one scrap of harm to your board. DOOM often does exactly what Yogg is played to do but works every time, clearing the board and giving you a hand full of cards to get back the game with. Deathwing does much the same though at a dangerous cost. (though most will play him with as empty a hand as possible.
I think there are different kinds of card games with different feels. I've played tons of the damned things because I love them so. There are those that have a slow methodical pace. Those that feature dramatic asymmetry in play strategies. Those that have incredibly dramatic swings based on single cards. Those that are all about who has the most rares. Those that reward incredibly thoughtful play. Those that are almost entirely about deck building. And so on....
Hearthstone is a fairly swingy card game wich tries to keep the play fast and somewhat unpredictable. It's a game about reacting to an ever-changing situation rather than one where you methodically plot moves well in advance. Clearly they don't want you to be sure what is going to happen next or be able to establish yourself in a position where you are guaranteed to grind out a win despite many more turns remaining. There are no "blue" decks in hearthstone, at least not many (freeze mage can be like that, or CW). But the Hearthstone designers clearly aren't angling for that kind of play even if they allow it. They want a game of wild shifts of control and unpredictable card outcomes.
Some have brought up poker and some had said its not a good analogy. Here is where it is similar. In poker you have many unknowns and you decide actions based on probabilities. Same goes here. Lots can change in a heartstone game and sometimes a good card just ends you or a card that has a lucky effect. You just have to do your best to roll with the punches and make plays based on what is or is not likely.
You don't win a game of hearthstone until the last life is gone. A full board and a big life total may stack the odds in your favor, but it is no guarantee. You haven't won that game until the last moment. Some folks hate that idea, they want every turn in their advantage to stack on and make victory down the road certain. Others want there to always be hope that next card draw could turn things around. Hearthstone isn't all one or the other but it's a little more in the latter than the former for sure. I think whether Yogg is too far is a matter of taste and preference. No wrong view, but I certainly don't feel like I'm determining the outcome of the game any more or less with Yogg than with Brawl.
Check out my gaming blog: Downy Owlbear Designs and download free P&P games.
Or argue with me about games on Qallout, the video debate site.