Yes, Yogg isn't the 'for fun' worthless card we first thought. He's powerful. He can, and will win games all by himself. THere's top tier decks that use him reliably. But when you make a deck or use him in general, you need to understand: He's not THE win condition.
Playing Yogg properly, the way that he's set up in order to create said top tier decks, he's used similar to Brawl. When you are behind or losing control, or when your opponent overcommits. Doing so creates two things: one, it makes sure that Yogg focuses mostly on enemy minions as most of wha the'll throw will be negative. Secondly, it means that your opponent wont have much to follow up on even if you have nothing on your side remaining either. The result is a recovery card worthy of a 10 drop that can turn a guaranteed loss into a winif you have good follow up.
Top tier decks don't rely on Yogg as their win condition. Instead, their other 29 cards serves that job. Thus Yogg only gets used when everything else fails, typically after a long nasty fight leaving both sides completely drained.
This is why many self made yogg decks fail. Their decks are made just ot use Yogg on. As a result, they throw a batch of removal spells in, or traps recently, to try power up Yogg and delay things till he comes. But the result is an opponent with removal tools they haven't used and, unless you got a lot of value from those removals, are still more powerful overall than your deck. Thus even if Yogg drops to an enemy board, the opponent can just removal it then move on while you are left with spells with no purpose.
If you are making a 'for fun' deck then ignore this of course. But if you are looking for a viable deck, then look at your deck and ask yourself "How do I actually KILL my opponent?" Not just how to gain an advantage, or do something powerful.. actually make the kill despite a strong opponent. If your answer is Yogg, pleas consider redesigning the deck.
Yogg is powerful, and can win. But he's your comeback tool. He shouldn't be your win condition.
I use yogg in fatigue-monkey mage. if I dont need the board clear, then it becomes a random legendary after I monkey. It's been working pretty well this season.
"Win Condition" is a very overused term in my opinion. Sure throwing spells + yogg into a deck isnt reliable but the good yogg decks dont have some magical condition they will win if they meet. They simply aim to use spells to control the board and then Yogg to refill their hand and reset the board.
It is obviously a win condition. It's a strong secondary plan - there are more good spells than bad - and synergyzes very well with decks that can cast 8-12 spells. It can easily seal a game, and will do it in something like 30% of the games - thus, it's solid. Although, I agree with your point that is a desperate tool and cannot be played only around it (neither should be the first thing you play). But anything that potentially seals the game - either by killing the opponent or giving you an insane advantage - is a game-finisher, or a win condition.
Clearly you have not praised Yogg enough. Yogg decides when he is the win condition and when he will be your death. You must believe in his power and trust that Yogg knows what's best.
Simply because of this post you should probably not run him anymore. The next time you summon Yogg he will show you his strength by buffing your board for a potential win before finally tossing 3 pyroblasts right at your face and ending your excitement.
I have to wonder where this mini rant stems from...I mean what's the context behind this post?
Personal gripe when seeing people run a Yogg and Load deck and be told that "Yogg is the win condition." It's what I get for reading twitch chat I guess. But I've seen other hunter secret decks that do nothing but spam secrets and then refil with random mess with L&L. I go, it's interesting and hard to get through but then I go "ok how am I supposed to actually die here."
If it was JUST to fuss though I wouldn't have posted, but I figured it might help some deck builders or newer folks wondering why people are taking Yogg seriously. But it's also to fuss a bit as well :P.
Consider sacrificing a beast or a murloc to Our mighty lord Yogg Saron. His will is law, only he decides over life and death. Praise his name, End of All Hope.
I think, in a strict sense, the OP is right. Yogg is a giant "Oh Shit!" button, much more akin to Twisting Nether than to a true win condition. Anytime I play against a Yogg deck, the game is usually decided before it comes into play - either I've been worn down to the point where pretty much anything is going to finish me, or I've bled my opponent dry and Yogg is just a bunch of sound and fury. Out of dozens of games against Yogg decks, particularly the Tempo Mage variant, I think I've actually been finished or had a close game flipped by Yogg in maybe 20% of them.
I actually think Tempo Mage would be much better without Yogg and the incentive it provides to just burn spells whenever you have excess mana. I've been playing around with N'zoth Pally since I want to run a non aggro/tempo deck for a bit and can't stand C'thun; and it only takes one forbidden healing to put the game completely out of their reach since they waste so many spells early. Of course, when they hit perfect curve, it's a total walkover.
I agree with pretty much everything you're saying here. That's why I run Yogg in my token Dudu as an "oh shit" button. 90% of the games I don't even need him to win; the mass tokens and buffs are typically enough. He does make a good deck a lot better though, plus he is super fun. I wish I would have crafted him earlier (I picked Y'Shaarj instead *facepalm*). He definitely shouldn't be your main win condition, but he definitely can be one. But definitely not sound deckbuilding to have your plan be "stall till Yawgg".
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Nature is the Day. Man is the Sun. Woman is the Moon. The Stone is the Sky. The Art is the Way.
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Yogg is not a win condition.
Yes, Yogg isn't the 'for fun' worthless card we first thought. He's powerful. He can, and will win games all by himself. THere's top tier decks that use him reliably. But when you make a deck or use him in general, you need to understand: He's not THE win condition.
Playing Yogg properly, the way that he's set up in order to create said top tier decks, he's used similar to Brawl. When you are behind or losing control, or when your opponent overcommits. Doing so creates two things: one, it makes sure that Yogg focuses mostly on enemy minions as most of wha the'll throw will be negative. Secondly, it means that your opponent wont have much to follow up on even if you have nothing on your side remaining either. The result is a recovery card worthy of a 10 drop that can turn a guaranteed loss into a winif you have good follow up.
Top tier decks don't rely on Yogg as their win condition. Instead, their other 29 cards serves that job. Thus Yogg only gets used when everything else fails, typically after a long nasty fight leaving both sides completely drained.
This is why many self made yogg decks fail. Their decks are made just ot use Yogg on. As a result, they throw a batch of removal spells in, or traps recently, to try power up Yogg and delay things till he comes. But the result is an opponent with removal tools they haven't used and, unless you got a lot of value from those removals, are still more powerful overall than your deck. Thus even if Yogg drops to an enemy board, the opponent can just removal it then move on while you are left with spells with no purpose.
If you are making a 'for fun' deck then ignore this of course. But if you are looking for a viable deck, then look at your deck and ask yourself "How do I actually KILL my opponent?" Not just how to gain an advantage, or do something powerful.. actually make the kill despite a strong opponent. If your answer is Yogg, pleas consider redesigning the deck.
Yogg is powerful, and can win. But he's your comeback tool. He shouldn't be your win condition.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
I use yogg in fatigue-monkey mage. if I dont need the board clear, then it becomes a random legendary after I monkey. It's been working pretty well this season.
Yogg is an insurance policy. Kind of.
Every yogg I've seen has either won them the game or did absolutely nothing.
yogg is more of a "plan b" card for a deck running more than 8 spells IMO
"Win Condition" is a very overused term in my opinion. Sure throwing spells + yogg into a deck isnt reliable but the good yogg decks dont have some magical condition they will win if they meet. They simply aim to use spells to control the board and then Yogg to refill their hand and reset the board.
I have to wonder where this mini rant stems from...I mean what's the context behind this post?
It is obviously a win condition. It's a strong secondary plan - there are more good spells than bad - and synergyzes very well with decks that can cast 8-12 spells. It can easily seal a game, and will do it in something like 30% of the games - thus, it's solid. Although, I agree with your point that is a desperate tool and cannot be played only around it (neither should be the first thing you play). But anything that potentially seals the game - either by killing the opponent or giving you an insane advantage - is a game-finisher, or a win condition.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Corvus oculum corvi non eruit.
Clearly you have not praised Yogg enough. Yogg decides when he is the win condition and when he will be your death. You must believe in his power and trust that Yogg knows what's best.
Simply because of this post you should probably not run him anymore. The next time you summon Yogg he will show you his strength by buffing your board for a potential win before finally tossing 3 pyroblasts right at your face and ending your excitement.
In Yogg We Trust
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
It is not, but it might.
Its certainly a fun condition :D
The answer to all your doubts will always be
In Yogg we trust. Praise him.
Maybe its a win condition if you consider having fun a win :D
The answer to all your doubts will always be
Yogg Druid Tier-1 deck rejects the OP.
I'd say Yogg-Saran has 70-30 chance to win you the game. The more and better spells your deck does, the higher the winning or turning table chance is.
Consider sacrificing a beast or a murloc to Our mighty lord Yogg Saron. His will is law, only he decides over life and death. Praise his name, End of All Hope.
I think, in a strict sense, the OP is right. Yogg is a giant "Oh Shit!" button, much more akin to Twisting Nether than to a true win condition. Anytime I play against a Yogg deck, the game is usually decided before it comes into play - either I've been worn down to the point where pretty much anything is going to finish me, or I've bled my opponent dry and Yogg is just a bunch of sound and fury. Out of dozens of games against Yogg decks, particularly the Tempo Mage variant, I think I've actually been finished or had a close game flipped by Yogg in maybe 20% of them.
I actually think Tempo Mage would be much better without Yogg and the incentive it provides to just burn spells whenever you have excess mana. I've been playing around with N'zoth Pally since I want to run a non aggro/tempo deck for a bit and can't stand C'thun; and it only takes one forbidden healing to put the game completely out of their reach since they waste so many spells early. Of course, when they hit perfect curve, it's a total walkover.
I agree with pretty much everything you're saying here. That's why I run Yogg in my token Dudu as an "oh shit" button. 90% of the games I don't even need him to win; the mass tokens and buffs are typically enough. He does make a good deck a lot better though, plus he is super fun. I wish I would have crafted him earlier (I picked Y'Shaarj instead *facepalm*). He definitely shouldn't be your main win condition, but he definitely can be one. But definitely not sound deckbuilding to have your plan be "stall till Yawgg".
Nature is the Day.
Man is the Sun.
Woman is the Moon.
The Stone is the Sky.
The Art is the Way.