This card is AMAZING. The only possible downside is that you might draw a useless card when you need a good one. Otherwise it is an auto-include in any deck other than an Aggro one.
I doubt this card will be good. Bigger deck is usually very bad, if it wasn't... heavier decks wouldn't need cycle / draw. To boot your deck is made bigger by random cards. If control decks start including this, aggro decks will become a lot stronger.
Let's do some hypergeometric calculations. You're playing against an aggro deck, you need at least two of "a removal card" or "another removal card" by turn 5. You have 4 of these in your deck. We assume on average you draw 10 cards to turn 5 (with mulligan and cycle). Without this card your decksize is 30, with it it is 35.
With Prince: 31% chance
Without Prince: 40% chance
'Nuff said.
And yes, fatigue blabla... after WoG, even control versus control is very often determined by tempo, not fatigue.
Even though I'm not certain this card will or will not be good in constructed, just remember a lot of new players came in recently with the Old Gods promo and the "play a friend" shenanigans. Sooo, lots of f2p new players who never ever got a Legendary from packs nor have the dust required to craft one. These are the guys who will benefit the most and *maybe* get enticed to fork in some money when they see how cool it is when you draw and play a winning sniper Ragnaros.
Also regular f2p players in the same situation will have tons of fun with this card. And let's not forget how divisive was Elise when she arrived and to this day there are still people with strong feelings both ways about her utility.
It's an ultimate control card. It expands the volume of your deck, provides unforeseen threats and moreover assures that your opponent won't have enough removals to clear everything. In a control vs control match-up it's a dream card - a formidable body that gives you a lot of value.
But it has one weakness it can corrupt your draw - playing control is all about having answers at the right time. And when you do not have them, you have cards that help search for the answers. It's a crucial part of the archetypes overall strategy - both against aggro and control. This card hinders that effort. Elise is good because you can control when and what cards will change into legendaries - you have a strategic choice. With this card you control nothing.
And actually - it's great that it's not a battlecry effect - think about it. That wouldn't make that much difference to control classes and it would make a world of difference to aggro decks. If this was a battlecry card, it would instantly become a ZOO staple.
1) When the match starts, will we see the 5 Legendary cards that will be included? Really necessary to pray to RNGsus, wether to draw them or to put them at the end of the deck...
2) By the wording I understand that if you get this card after the game starts, let's say from a Portal or from a Shredder, you DO NOT get it to activate since it wasn't in you deck at the beginning... right ?
I doubt this card will be good. Bigger deck is usually very bad, if it wasn't... heavier decks wouldn't need cycle / draw. To boot your deck is made bigger by random cards. If control decks start including this, aggro decks will become a lot stronger.
Let's do some hypergeometric calculations. You're playing against an aggro deck, you need at least two of "a removal card" or "another removal card" by turn 5. You have 4 of these in your deck. We assume on average you draw 10 cards to turn 5 (with mulligan and cycle). Without this card your decksize is 30, with it it is 35.
With Prince: 31% chance
Without Prince: 40% chance
'Nuff said.
And yes, fatigue blabla... after WoG, even control versus control is very often determined by tempo, not fatigue.
Well, it is hard to make a strategy for fatigue with only Elise as a option and so many OP cards for others arquetypes, this card can change that...
If it's relegated to class Legendaries, then Priest is getting the royal shaft, since none of the legendaries are playable. This should be of insane use to classes like Hunter, Rogue, Warrior, Mage....well you get it, everyone but Priest.
why so many people think this is good? this card is purely based on rng like yogg sarron. no wonder 50 percent of hearthstone players are below rank 18.
if you play this card you will get majordomo executes, millhouse manastorm, tinkmaster overspark, nat pagle, and nat the darkfisher
Yeah, why woud they make more RNG based cards like yogg? Its not like Yogg sees any play...
Adding random cards to your deck is bad. Would you want to play a deck where you pick 25 cards, and the rest is filled out randomly (with legendaries)? I guess not. Obviously you want to choose the best cards for your deck, and you want to draw those cards, not random others.
Increased deck size is useful for fatigue, but does nothing when the game ends before fatigue anyway, and let's be real, even control vs control can finish games before comes down to fatigue, and it's not a common matchup. And even if you're afraid of fatigue wars, it's easier to include less card draw, rather than keep it, and draw into these randomly added cards too.
Elise is much different, because it turns your cards (many of which are needed early on, but are useless/harmful lategame, like shield block, acolyte, etc.) into late game threats. Having those lategame threats in your deck from the start would be bad, you want to get those late in the game, and Elise does exactly that, unlike this card.
Couldn't have said it better.
It feels like people who say this card is insane and compare it to Elise have never played her in a deck and don't understand what her function is. Her function isn't to add random legendaries to your deck. Her function is to convert useless cards into useful ones and random legandaries happens to be slightly more useful than the cards you have stuck in your hand with no purpose. Everyone who's played Golden Monkey more than once knows that the legendaries you often get are pretty bad and people who think that Elise being slow is a draw back, don't realize that you don't want or need her to be any faster because Golden Monkey is actually a drawback until the last couple of turns of the game.
Adding 5 random cards to your deck is good, why? playing a control v control matchup. The person running this card has 5 EXTRA cards in their deck, which means the fatigue battle is almost instantly won by the guy running this card.
Fatigue is overrated, seriously. When I play CW vs. CW I don't lose to fatigue (since Tank Up is ridicules), I lose because the opponent has a last man standing. This doesn't help in any way. Yes it makes your deck more threat dense but you could make your deck more threat dense (greedy) without playing this dude and put actually good threats into the deck instead of 6 random ones.
I doubt this card will be good. Bigger deck is usually very bad, if it wasn't... heavier decks wouldn't need cycle / draw. To boot your deck is made bigger by random cards. If control decks start including this, aggro decks will become a lot stronger.
Let's do some hypergeometric calculations. You're playing against an aggro deck, you need at least two of "a removal card" or "another removal card" by turn 5. You have 4 of these in your deck. We assume on average you draw 10 cards to turn 5 (with mulligan and cycle). Without this card your decksize is 30, with it it is 35.
With Prince: 31% chance
Without Prince: 40% chance
'Nuff said.
And yes, fatigue blabla... after WoG, even control versus control is very often determined by tempo, not fatigue.
There is value to what youre saying.. The only issue is that currently a control deck has to balance 3 things. Card draw, removal, and minions. If you have to much card draw, you will die to fatigue in the control matchup up. If you have too much removal you wont be able to finish off anyone. With too many minions, your deck becomes greedy and you lose to aggro.
With the inclusion of this card, you can push more hand advantage, and have more removal in your deck because you now have 5 extra LEGENDARIES in your deck. You can INCREASE your consistency with this card in your deck because you can now add 4 additional card draw and/or removal spells into your deck that you couldnt before.
Will there be RNG? yeah. but there are far more useful legendaries then useless legendaries.
I personally love this card. I have... about 5 non adventure pack legendaries and it takes me forever to make more. Even if you have all the legendaries crafted this card adds variety and free extra cards to your deck; this is especially good for people who draw a lot of cards with thier Coldlight/Bronzebeard combo... I hate you people.
I never see some legendarys play like the demon 7/5 put minion 2/1, but is soooooooo bad if you get from this card? Have a few garbage legendarys but the majority is ok a least.
That said yes there is more aggro out there right now, but don't you want to stand a "good chance" against both instead of just losing every control and and winning "most" aggro?
Would you rather buy an adequate amount of home insurance or buy not as much home insurance and invest in some valuable Flying Ninja Shark insurance. It may be expensive but you never know when a Flying Ninja Shark can strike.
Dude, Flying Ninja Shark attacks are real, and it is more important to invest in insurance for them than some stupid home insurance. I mean, have you not watched the great documentary on this by the name of "Sharknado"?
Last man standing =/= a random minion? Even some fatigue decks ran/run Elise in order to ensure whatever they play is something that gets on the board in some way, getting rid of an axe and a bash for some usually pretty good minions.
Now, his text could mean a number of things; does he put a random 5 legendaries into your deck? Does he put a random 5 legendaries that aren't in your deck already into your deck? Or does he put extra copies of legendaries that are in your deck, up to 5? These could all massively effect decks with Reno Jackson, for instance. However you slice it, though, this card does help general fatigue decks, because it delays your fatigue by 5 turns (which denies 15 damage) and allows you to potentially have bodies on the board that your opponent just can't deal with. Depending on the other cards released (32 is a significant number of cards), control decks can have a lot of tools to counter aggro and midrange, and control decks that run fatigue cards will have a straight up advantage against control decks that don't.
I doubt this card will be good. Bigger deck is usually very bad, if it wasn't... heavier decks wouldn't need cycle / draw. To boot your deck is made bigger by random cards. If control decks start including this, aggro decks will become a lot stronger.
Let's do some hypergeometric calculations. You're playing against an aggro deck, you need at least two of "a removal card" or "another removal card" by turn 5. You have 4 of these in your deck. We assume on average you draw 10 cards to turn 5 (with mulligan and cycle). Without this card your decksize is 30, with it it is 35.
With Prince: 31% chance
Without Prince: 40% chance
'Nuff said.
And yes, fatigue blabla... after WoG, even control versus control is very often determined by tempo, not fatigue.
There is value to what youre saying.. The only issue is that currently a control deck has to balance 3 things. Card draw, removal, and minions. If you have to much card draw, you will die to fatigue in the control matchup up. If you have too much removal you wont be able to finish off anyone. With too many minions, your deck becomes greedy and you lose to aggro.
With the inclusion of this card, you can push more hand advantage, and have more removal in your deck because you now have 5 extra LEGENDARIES in your deck. You can INCREASE your consistency with this card in your deck because you can now add 4 additional card draw and/or removal spells into your deck that you couldnt before.
Will there be RNG? yeah. but there are far more useful legendaries then useless legendaries.
Or you could just play 39 removal spells/stalls and then Elise. A lot more consistent. You're not making it more constistent by putting more draw to your deck, you're simply negating the fact that you have 6 duds in your deck + wasting turns drawing over removing.
They really just need to fire some people... should never have digital RNG mechanics (unstable portal, this, shredders). Good RNG is like deal 2-3 dmg for shaman. Now if the card was like add 5 infernals... which makes sense for his lore, but obviously since adding to deck limit have a bad effect.
I doubt this card will be good. Bigger deck is usually very bad, if it wasn't... heavier decks wouldn't need cycle / draw. To boot your deck is made bigger by random cards. If control decks start including this, aggro decks will become a lot stronger.
Let's do some hypergeometric calculations. You're playing against an aggro deck, you need at least two of "a removal card" or "another removal card" by turn 5. You have 4 of these in your deck. We assume on average you draw 10 cards to turn 5 (with mulligan and cycle). Without this card your decksize is 30, with it it is 35.
With Prince: 31% chance
Without Prince: 40% chance
'Nuff said.
And yes, fatigue blabla... after WoG, even control versus control is very often determined by tempo, not fatigue.
There is value to what youre saying.. The only issue is that currently a control deck has to balance 3 things. Card draw, removal, and minions. If you have to much card draw, you will die to fatigue in the control matchup up. If you have too much removal you wont be able to finish off anyone. With too many minions, your deck becomes greedy and you lose to aggro.
With the inclusion of this card, you can push more hand advantage, and have more removal in your deck because you now have 5 extra LEGENDARIES in your deck. You can INCREASE your consistency with this card in your deck because you can now add 4 additional card draw and/or removal spells into your deck that you couldnt before.
Will there be RNG? yeah. but there are far more useful legendaries then useless legendaries.
Well, if control priest and control and / or value mage is viable after the next expansion... then this card can become good.
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This card is AMAZING. The only possible downside is that you might draw a useless card when you need a good one. Otherwise it is an auto-include in any deck other than an Aggro one.
I love this card, if only for the variance. Every game will be unique and fun with this! Amazing.
Probably allows Kripp's all legendary deck to literally run every legendary in standard, with the 35 card deck size.
Also, as a control mage player, I can drop all the legendaries from my deck now, and just include this guy and all the removal.
I doubt this card will be good. Bigger deck is usually very bad, if it wasn't... heavier decks wouldn't need cycle / draw. To boot your deck is made bigger by random cards. If control decks start including this, aggro decks will become a lot stronger.
Let's do some hypergeometric calculations. You're playing against an aggro deck, you need at least two of "a removal card" or "another removal card" by turn 5. You have 4 of these in your deck. We assume on average you draw 10 cards to turn 5 (with mulligan and cycle). Without this card your decksize is 30, with it it is 35.
With Prince: 31% chance
Without Prince: 40% chance
'Nuff said.
And yes, fatigue blabla... after WoG, even control versus control is very often determined by tempo, not fatigue.
Well, here are my two cents:
Even though I'm not certain this card will or will not be good in constructed, just remember a lot of new players came in recently with the Old Gods promo and the "play a friend" shenanigans. Sooo, lots of f2p new players who never ever got a Legendary from packs nor have the dust required to craft one. These are the guys who will benefit the most and *maybe* get enticed to fork in some money when they see how cool it is when you draw and play a winning sniper Ragnaros.
Also regular f2p players in the same situation will have tons of fun with this card. And let's not forget how divisive was Elise when she arrived and to this day there are still people with strong feelings both ways about her utility.
It's an ultimate control card. It expands the volume of your deck, provides unforeseen threats and moreover assures that your opponent won't have enough removals to clear everything. In a control vs control match-up it's a dream card - a formidable body that gives you a lot of value.
But it has one weakness it can corrupt your draw - playing control is all about having answers at the right time. And when you do not have them, you have cards that help search for the answers. It's a crucial part of the archetypes overall strategy - both against aggro and control. This card hinders that effort. Elise is good because you can control when and what cards will change into legendaries - you have a strategic choice. With this card you control nothing.
And actually - it's great that it's not a battlecry effect - think about it. That wouldn't make that much difference to control classes and it would make a world of difference to aggro decks. If this was a battlecry card, it would instantly become a ZOO staple.
Does anybody know:
1) When the match starts, will we see the 5 Legendary cards that will be included? Really necessary to pray to RNGsus, wether to draw them or to put them at the end of the deck...
2) By the wording I understand that if you get this card after the game starts, let's say from a Portal or from a Shredder, you DO NOT get it to activate since it wasn't in you deck at the beginning... right ?
Any info on these?
If it's relegated to class Legendaries, then Priest is getting the royal shaft, since none of the legendaries are playable. This should be of insane use to classes like Hunter, Rogue, Warrior, Mage....well you get it, everyone but Priest.
If this could get legends from other classes it would have synergy with Ethereal Peddler, dang what a shame.
I personally love this card. I have... about 5 non adventure pack legendaries and it takes me forever to make more. Even if you have all the legendaries crafted this card adds variety and free extra cards to your deck; this is especially good for people who draw a lot of cards with thier Coldlight/Bronzebeard combo... I hate you people.
I never see some legendarys play like the demon 7/5 put minion 2/1, but is soooooooo bad if you get from this card? Have a few garbage legendarys but the majority is ok a least.
Last man standing =/= a random minion? Even some fatigue decks ran/run Elise in order to ensure whatever they play is something that gets on the board in some way, getting rid of an axe and a bash for some usually pretty good minions.
Now, his text could mean a number of things; does he put a random 5 legendaries into your deck? Does he put a random 5 legendaries that aren't in your deck already into your deck? Or does he put extra copies of legendaries that are in your deck, up to 5? These could all massively effect decks with Reno Jackson, for instance. However you slice it, though, this card does help general fatigue decks, because it delays your fatigue by 5 turns (which denies 15 damage) and allows you to potentially have bodies on the board that your opponent just can't deal with. Depending on the other cards released (32 is a significant number of cards), control decks can have a lot of tools to counter aggro and midrange, and control decks that run fatigue cards will have a straight up advantage against control decks that don't.
All legendarys warrior class are great, and Varian become better with a larger deck.
Warrior control will use this card.
The class have options for any archetype.
Is only me or warrior is too good and need some nerf?
They really just need to fire some people... should never have digital RNG mechanics (unstable portal, this, shredders). Good RNG is like deal 2-3 dmg for shaman. Now if the card was like add 5 infernals... which makes sense for his lore, but obviously since adding to deck limit have a bad effect.