Hearthpwn

Quote from BVanScoy1 >>

Quote from hillandder >>

In first week I can understand people don't see how broken and insany this card is but this point is so pathetic obvious like 2 + 2 = 4.

After see a hunter in each 2 or 3 matchs become clear the classes not even close to balance, I have to play 20 games to see a rogue or a warlock and all hunters run 2 copies of this OP crap because they love to cheat the game, at this point this card is beyond OP, is a cheat code, any card before this, nerfed or not, you have someway to win the game, here nothing, no matter what you do or not in entire game, hunter with 8 manas play this "I win the game" card and have absolutely nothing you can do about it.

I play before G&G expansion release and is the first time a card make me want to stop playing this game.

Your arguement is basically that it's op because I say/feel that it is. The fact is that there is no evidence or even a good arguement to show that it's op. This is why you keep seeing people in this thread repeating the same thing over and over again purposely ignoring the evidence and countless counter arguments to the contrary. the only thing leading you to the blind belief that Call of the Wild is overpowered is your own biases plain and simple.  

How can people say that playing COTW is an auto win. I've played only mid-range hunter this month in wild and my win rate is just over 50%. I have won many of the games I've played without COTW and lost many games after I've played 2. Does anyone have stats to prove that this card wins games when it is played or is it just all whiney kids complaining.

I wish I was hungry for some lunch because I probably wipe it on my screen and get some salt :P

*edit* for clarification I made it to rank 1 with the deck and have been between 5 and 1 ever since... before anyone starts shouting rank 20 nonsense at me

The issue and bias play it's psychologically understandable towards cards that create these kind of fast-paced meta. 2x Call of the wild it's just the win condition to a type of deck that roflstomps you, thus it gets all the hatred.
It's either "you reply fast to me vomiting my hand" or you are dead before you get to play. People does not like to not have even a chance of playing if they don't play according to having to play faster or have a solution for every single card played every single turn.
This way the option of playing succesfully the ladder restricts a lot the options.
Meta is now Shaman/Hunter/Warrior who play aggressively and decks who can afford to proc combos by board control and card draw (Murloc Paladin, Malygos Druid and sometimes Control Warrior) or getting back in the game with Yogg-Saron (Tempo Mage and Yogg Druid)
That is 8 archetypes of decks. There are 9 classes.
Rogue, Warlocks (Zoolocks are too frail in comparison to Shaman and Hunter, their early minions are just way too stronger) and Priest are niche picks. I hate to play against priests more than hunters (I actually don't dislike too much playing against them), but dammit last expansion Hunter gets Hungry Granny and the secret knight and they got PURIFY and priest of the feast (which is not bad, but average). Shamans got Maelstrom portal and Craft Harrison Jones you poor scum if you don't wanna play Mage/Hunter/Shaman Claws.

The true solution for this stale meta would be probably inserting a First-Strike minion mechanic (maybe not allowing those to hit face and serving as sole board control purpose) mechanic as I heard once from Kripparian. 

It is true that 2 Call of the wild can be played around, but that can happen only if you have removals or a big board. The problem is that the other cards in Hunter decks often get you short of removals. Savannah Higmane for example needs A LOT to be removed, unless you are playing Shaman (Hex) or Mage (Polymorph/Flamewaker board clear with Flamestrike to answer CotW, they don't run Counterspell cause too slow vs Shamans) or Hunter (Freezing Trap). 

Hunter actually needs some pain in the mana curve, may it be on CotW or somewhere else.
Let's move on to more important things, nerf Shaman somewhere. Like Thing from Below

My friend just showed me the video of Savj playing Astral Druid against a hunter and it really goes to show how OP call of the wild is and really Hunter in general right now. I don't really want to play in a meta where a hunter can Kill command his own face on turn 3 followed by Quickshot own face on turn 4 then still win the game with the real momentum shift being Call of the Wild on turn 8. In what world can a hunter play really nothing until turn 5 or 6 and beat a druid filled with huge taunts?

Quote from Mr_butts >>

My friend just showed me the video of Savj playing Astral Druid against a hunter and it really goes to show how OP call of the wild is and really Hunter in general right now. I don't really want to play in a meta where a hunter can Kill command his own face on turn 3 followed by Quickshot own face on turn 4 then still win the game with the real momentum shift being Call of the Wild on turn 8. In what world can a hunter play really nothing until turn 5 or 6 and beat a druid filled with huge taunts?

 

 

this thread is more "why we hate hunter" then anything about cotw.

people hate cotw because they always want have something that with bash hunter.

Quote from That_mAntis >>

this thread is more "why we hate hunter" then anything about cotw.

people hate cotw because they always want have something that with bash hunter.

Ok so I'm chiming in here and let's talk about card value with what CotW does:

1. MINIMUM 5 instant unavoidable damage if you don't have a taunt on the board.

2. Strong board presence for 8 cost (essentially 10 total hp with 12 damage, nearly half your hp if you're not a warrior). 

3. Zero draw back besides its cost.

Now let's talk about stall tactics with hunter class as everyone's whining about how hunter is "LUCKY" to get to turn 8:

1. A fantastic turn 1 drop that almost guarantees you board control or trades up (unless you're against a warrior with their weapon)

2. Numerous secrets, especially with the whole lock and load / secrets cost 0 combo. (A 3/4 for 3? Why would this not be in your deck? Also solves quite a bit of the card draw issues)

3. Two of the best 2 cost drops in the game:  King's Elekk (potential card draw / information gain and board presence AND trades up most times) and Kindly Grandmother (essentially a 4/3).

4. A retarded 3 cost weapon to take board control with potential for more swings and synergy with #2.

5. Two of the best 3 cost spells in the game which is generally used for trading at this point because as has been pointed out many times, facehunter is dead: Kill command and Unleash the hounds.

If you bastards can't survive to turn 8 with literally some of the most cost efficient value cards in the entirety of the game, you have no right to play Hunter.

Now let's look at comparable cards:

*list empty*

Know why? Because there is NOT a single other card in the entirety of Hearthstone that comes CLOSE to this value. 3 different minions (no more board clear? Well you're fucked) AND instant use as either trade or face damage. 

What spell or even legendary card has the potential ON TURN 8! Not TURN 10! to completely turn around a losing game? God forbid you had some board control with ALL THE OTHER MANA EFFICIENT CARDS YOU HAVE (*looks at Savannah Highmane*). Oh, and guess what you get 2 of these damn things in your deck, which means this has the potential to be a turn 8 AND a turn 9 play (or turn 7/8 if you saved the coin).

Everyone's bringing in Yogg / C'thun but you don't seem to comprehend YOGG IS A 10 COST CARD THAT CAN FUCK YOU AS WELL and C'thun is ALSO 10 cost which requires you sacrificing a majority of your deck to power it up and build around it. It isn't comparable to a turn 8, no draw back, 5 immediate damage and overwhelming board presence card. Fireland's Portal is the ONLY card that comes close and that's a 7 cost for 5 damage and ONE minion. YOU GET 2 EXTRA MINIONS FOR 1 MORE MANA?! And there's NO RNG MECHANIC?! What the fuck? A reliable card in hearthstone in the age of Yogg? What's going on?

My nerf is far more reasonable: Make CotW a legendary spell. Don't touch the cost or value of the card, just don't allow more than 1 in a deck. You can counter it once if you're preparing properly for turn 8 but double CotW? I don't know if there's a legit way to deal with 2x CotW on turn 8/9 unless you're a mage who has both flamestrikes in hand and hasn't had to use either to deal with highmanes / deathrattle cards. Make it comparable to Yogg and C'thun in that there can only be one in a deck unless you get it back via randomness. 

Sad part is, Hunters DO need a card this powerful to remain viable otherwise they fall to where the Priest currently is at, but this card's insane value should make it legendary status. There's no way around that, the only cards ANYONE has brought up to compare this spell to HAVE ALL BEEN LEGENDARY CARDS! That should speak for itself. Make it a legendary / unique spell and it falls more in line with where we expect a card this powerful to fall. It'll be the first ever legendary spell.

I still don't get it that whenever a card is very effective...everyone wants it nerfed. There will always be some cards that are more effective than others.

Call of the Wild, when played with a few minions on the board is very effective and damaging...yeah I get that, but Flamestrike is also very effective and damaging to a full board full of minions and no one is pissing and moaning about that...and Call of the Wild requires more token minions to gain effectiveness...Flamestirke doesn't. How many times has someone swept away all your minions in one play with Flamestrike? And no one complains about that (and I'm not suggesting that people start complaining about FS...I'm just saying it's another very effective card that doesn't generate endless threads in forums).

People need to learn to play around Call of the Wild just like they learned (or will learn) to play around Flamestrike...or build a deck and use CotW now before Blizzard listens to all the whiners and nerfs it.

Quote from Bushmaster22 >>

I still don't get it that whenever a card is very effective...everyone wants it nerfed. There will always be some cards that are more effective than others.

Call of the Wild, when played with a few minions on the board is very effective and damaging...yeah I get that, but Flamestrike is also very effective and damaging to a full board full of minions and no one care about that...and Call of the Wild requires more token minions to gain effectiveness...Flamestirke doesn't. How many times has someone swept away all your minions in one play with Flamestrike? And no one complains about that...at least not as much as Call of the Wild.

People need to learn to play around Call of the Wild or build a deck and use those cards now before Blizzard listens to all the whiners and nerfs it.

CotW would be fine if all stats of all minions would be reduced by 1. Otherwise, make it cost 9 or 10 mana at least

I can't even purify hunter's minions SadFace

Quote from Horkinger >>

Quote from BVanScoy1 >>

Quote from hillandder >>

In first week I can understand people don't see how broken and insany this card is but this point is so pathetic obvious like 2 + 2 = 4.

After see a hunter in each 2 or 3 matchs become clear the classes not even close to balance, I have to play 20 games to see a rogue or a warlock and all hunters run 2 copies of this OP crap because they love to cheat the game, at this point this card is beyond OP, is a cheat code, any card before this, nerfed or not, you have someway to win the game, here nothing, no matter what you do or not in entire game, hunter with 8 manas play this "I win the game" card and have absolutely nothing you can do about it.

I play before G&G expansion release and is the first time a card make me want to stop playing this game.

Your arguement is basically that it's op because I say/feel that it is. The fact is that there is no evidence or even a good arguement to show that it's op. This is why you keep seeing people in this thread repeating the same thing over and over again purposely ignoring the evidence and countless counter arguments to the contrary. the only thing leading you to the blind belief that Call of the Wild is overpowered is your own biases plain and simple.  

 There is a pretty simple Argument and a very strong indication that CotW is OP. It is the objective value of the Card compared to other cards.

12/12 stats for 8 mana is among the strongest mana for stat you can get. It is about the same asSavannah Highmane , Cairne Bloodhoof and Twin Emperor Vek'lor provide. It's unconditional (unlike the twin emperor) and has no downsides, moreover, it has an immediate Impact (Huffer) because you have 5 damage to your immediate disposal, it affects the present board as well (Leokk) and gives you protection (MIsha). And it got rid of any rng (summoned creatures are always Huffer , Leokk and then Misha ). Finally it provides you with a strong board presence, since the stats are distributed over 3 bodies.

The value can simply be seen by comparing it to Animal Companion which has some uncertainties in using it, because you don't know which companion you will get for 3 mana. Call of the Wild summons all three in 1 Card for 1 mana less. These are all pretty strong arguments for the OPness of the Card.

However, I don't think the Card is as bad (or better evil) as the versus-party believes. It is an end game Card, so it should be stronger because every calss can cope with more dangerous minions in the late game. And the fact that it gives you three bodies (which is generally good) makes it easier to get rid of a single Body (e.g. consecration alone kills huffer). So while I still think a nerf to 9 mana would be appropriate, it is possible to deal with the Card in the late game if the hunter does not have a lead. If he does,  this Card is the last nail in the coffin.

I see that this thread has the anti-Hunter people still spouting the same debunked arguements over and over and over again completely ignoring the counter arguements laid out before them. 

Quote from BVanScoy1 >>

Quote from Horkinger >>

Quote from BVanScoy1 >>

Quote from hillandder >>

In first week I can understand people don't see how broken and insany this card is but this point is so pathetic obvious like 2 + 2 = 4.

After see a hunter in each 2 or 3 matchs become clear the classes not even close to balance, I have to play 20 games to see a rogue or a warlock and all hunters run 2 copies of this OP crap because they love to cheat the game, at this point this card is beyond OP, is a cheat code, any card before this, nerfed or not, you have someway to win the game, here nothing, no matter what you do or not in entire game, hunter with 8 manas play this "I win the game" card and have absolutely nothing you can do about it.

I play before G&G expansion release and is the first time a card make me want to stop playing this game.

Your arguement is basically that it's op because I say/feel that it is. The fact is that there is no evidence or even a good arguement to show that it's op. This is why you keep seeing people in this thread repeating the same thing over and over again purposely ignoring the evidence and countless counter arguments to the contrary. the only thing leading you to the blind belief that Call of the Wild is overpowered is your own biases plain and simple.  

 There is a pretty simple Argument and a very strong indication that CotW is OP. It is the objective value of the Card compared to other cards.

12/12 stats for 8 mana is among the strongest mana for stat you can get. It is about the same asSavannah Highmane , Cairne Bloodhoof and Twin Emperor Vek'lor provide. It's unconditional (unlike the twin emperor) and has no downsides, moreover, it has an immediate Impact (Huffer) because you have 5 damage to your immediate disposal, it affects the present board as well (Leokk) and gives you protection (MIsha). And it got rid of any rng (summoned creatures are always Huffer , Leokk and then Misha ). Finally it provides you with a strong board presence, since the stats are distributed over 3 bodies.

The value can simply be seen by comparing it to Animal Companion which has some uncertainties in using it, because you don't know which companion you will get for 3 mana. Call of the Wild summons all three in 1 Card for 1 mana less. These are all pretty strong arguments for the OPness of the Card.

However, I don't think the Card is as bad (or better evil) as the versus-party believes. It is an end game Card, so it should be stronger because every calss can cope with more dangerous minions in the late game. And the fact that it gives you three bodies (which is generally good) makes it easier to get rid of a single Body (e.g. consecration alone kills huffer). So while I still think a nerf to 9 mana would be appropriate, it is possible to deal with the Card in the late game if the hunter does not have a lead. If he does,  this Card is the last nail in the coffin.

 

 I have already explained why that arguement doesn't hold up to scrutiny multiple times in this thread. Please go read my previous posts. 

Quote from BVanScoy1 >>

I see that this thread has the anti-Hunter people still spouting the same debunked arguements over and over and over again completely ignoring the counter arguements laid out before them. 

i have never heard anyone call for the nerf of abusive sergeant. this is because its a 1 mana  2-1. but this card is the reason that allows aggro to be a dominate force. if blizzard does start nerfing these big cards that do great things, then they are rolling over and allowing face decks to be an ever more dominate threat

The card isn't really deserving of a nerf. I mean, compare it to it's previous incarnation. It was, as most people know, "Summon 3 RANDOM Animal Companions." So, I mean, it could have been 8 Mana, Summon 3 4/4s with Taunt, 8 Mana, Summon 3 4/2s with Charge, you get the picture. Compared to that, this IS nerfed.

Quote from hillandder >>

Quote from Bushmaster22 >>

I still don't get it that whenever a card is very effective...everyone wants it nerfed. There will always be some cards that are more effective than others.

Call of the Wild, when played with a few minions on the board is very effective and damaging...yeah I get that, but Flamestrike is also very effective and damaging to a full board full of minions and no one care about that...and Call of the Wild requires more token minions to gain effectiveness...Flamestirke doesn't. How many times has someone swept away all your minions in one play with Flamestrike? And no one complains about that...at least not as much as Call of the Wild.

People need to learn to play around Call of the Wild or build a deck and use those cards now before Blizzard listens to all the whiners and nerfs it.

 You don't win a game only because you play Flamestrike, your argument sound like "Is ok have a 3/14 minion for 2 manas, priest uses Shadow Word: Pain and nobody care about that or "Is ok a 9/9 minion for 4 manas, shaman uses Hex and nobody cares...".

Except for Flamestrike don't have a single card response for CotW and even Flamestrike right away the player receive 5 damage.

The removal have to be more efficient than minion(s) because the removal don't do anything until the minion(s) are played, if the minion(s) don't be removed you win the game.

Quote from Mr_butts >>

Quote from BVanScoy1 >>

I see that this thread has the anti-Hunter people still spouting the same debunked arguements over and over and over again completely ignoring the counter arguements laid out before them. 

I've noticed the opposite. From the side that says it's OP people have mentioned

1.it is 12/10 for 8 mana which is the best value of any 8 mana card by far.

2.It has charge, taunt and buffs other minions immediately and no other card in the game does that. 

3. Call of the wild into Call of the wild is literally one of, if not the best turn 8 and 9 in the game.

4. CoTW would fit into literally any deck from aggro to tempo to control to combo which usually indicates it's OP like Dr. Boom was.

5. It isn't even legendary like Dr. Boom so you can run 2 which virtually guarantees you draw at least 1 by turn 8.  

6. It has pushed Hunter to be not only one of the strongest classes in Standard but also in Wild where decks like secret pally still exist.

7. It combines 3 cards into 1 and actually reduces the mana cost where usually when you combine 2 or more cards into 1 it costs more than the 2 put together (look at bloodmage and sprint).

8. It removes all the RNG from animal companion but that RNG is why animal companion only costs 3 despite each of the minions being worth more than 3 mana.  

9. It requires no board or synergy to play you can literally just play it on turn 8 with no set up straight from hand and get a strong board. 

All I've seen from the pro CoTW side is

1. BUT WE NEEEEEDDDD IT!!!!!

2. It costs 8 mana so it's a late game card like a Ysera or Gruul.

3. At least we aren't playing face hunter anymore, we're just playing an aggro hunter with highmanes and CoTW.

Not to sound rude but... isn't this what Taunt was made for?