Hearthpwn

Seriosly there is someone defending that crazy op shit? No wonder HS is such a joke.

COTW might be OP. But if you want to nerf it, then nerf every single OP card in the game. It's ridiculous whenever Hunter is one of the top classes and gets decent to good to OP cards, everyone starts to whine about them. Not thinking Hunters only have one play style, because Blizzard doesn't give them another play style.

Hunters only have TWO CARDS (Two COTW) keeping them competitive. Take them away and they are worst then Priest. Without COTW, Hunters don't have card draw, they heavily rely on good draws, and need to have strong combos to be effective. 

Seriously all this whining because one card keeping a class competitive. What about Warriors? They have at least 5 ridiculously OP cards. Shamans too. Zoo Lock? "I serve the firelols". Nerf them all if you are going to nerf COTW. 

Quote from Ashaf306 >>

COTW might be OP. But if you want to nerf it, then nerf every single OP card in the game. It's ridiculous whenever Hunter is one of the top classes and gets decent to good to OP cards, everyone starts to whine about them. Not thinking Hunters only have one play style, because Blizzard doesn't give them another play style.

Hunters only have TWO CARDS (Two COTW) keeping them competitive. Take them away and they are worst then Priest. Without COTW, Hunters don't have card draw, they heavily rely on good draws, and need to have strong combos to be effective. 

Seriously all this whining because one card keeping a class competitive. What about Warriors? They have at least 5 ridiculously OP cards. Shamans too. Zoo Lock? "I serve the firelols". Nerf them all if you are going to nerf COTW. 

You actually haven't made a single coherent argument as to why the card is balanced.  You've just said it was balanced because it isn't as good as legendary 8-drops.  That's not really a relevant comparison.  Show me a game where a control player drops Rag+Ysera against a double CotW.  I guarantee the CotW wins at least 2/3 of those games.  Burst damage matters and distributed stats can actually be a blessing given the relative lack of good board clears in the game.

 

Obvious you did read ANY of my previous posts in this thread. I pointed out that it has major weaknesses as well as strengths that make it balanced. I laid out the weaknesses in clear terms that even the most novice players could understand. 

Is your argument really "I can't drop my legendaries the turn he pays Call of the Wild it's op"? Seriously? They are both passive and proactive ways to clear Call of the Wild and I demonstrated, again, in my previous posts. Perhaps you should go back and read.

The reason that people don't generally complain about Animal Companion is that the over-statted minions are balanced out by the randomness of what you get.  Individually, Misha and Huffer are both clearly above 3 mana value.  Leokk is at-worst a 3-mana minion.  So, you're getting, at a minimum, 9 mana in value for 8 mana (probably closer to 10 given 22 total stat points), plus the additional value of not spending 3 cards to generate those 3 minions.

They actually aren't worth more than 3 mana. I went through that as well in previous posts. It's only "worth more than 3 mana" if you compare it to 3 mana nuetral cards that never see play. When you compare the stats and effect they are right in line with class 3 drops. Think of it this way, if you were to play those 3 cards on turn 8 on an empty board you aren't gain much tempo at all. This is why you get the 1 mana discount. Call fo the Wild is only really effective when you have a board left from turn 7 (which is a tough turn for Hunters since they do not have a decent 7 drop). This is because Leokk allows those minions to trade up (Hunter minions lately have not been know to trade up very well). I explain this in more detail in a previous post. 

 You've overrated the weakness to board clear, given that the odds are exceedingly strong that a control player will have to burn AOE at some point earlier in the game given Hunter's steady stream of deathrattle minions.  Even if the player does have one in hand, many don't do enough damage to fully-clear the board.  Only the most greedy decks will have enough to clear a double-CotW.

See, you'd be right if Hunters flooded the board the same way something like Zoo Warlock does, but they don't. Hunters typically play 1 minion at a time, on curve, in order to slowly gain momentum and pressure the opponent. They try to efficiently trade to maintain a lead on the board. Using AoE early on is extremely inefficient against Hunters as they won't have many targets to AoE in the first place. If this is your strategy against Hunters right now then I would suggest re-evaluating your strategy. 

 This is all really irrelevant since Blizzard will almost certainly never nerf an expansion card.  It just exemplifies the only way Blizzard knows to push classes / archetypes - print a few cards, watch them not work, then break down and create something blatantly 1-2 mana overpowered and watch the fireworks.  Same thing withFlamewreathed Faceless for Shaman, MC for Pally, etc. etc.

Like I said, Call of the Wild is actually fine as is.

Even when they are only worth 3 mana, you didn't refute

So, you're getting, at a minimum, 9 mana in value for 8 mana (probably closer to 10 given 22 total stat points), plus the additional value of not spending 3 cards to generate those 3 minions.

and I'm no experienced player, but

Call fo the Wild is only really effective when you have a board left from turn 7 (which is a tough turn for Hunters since they do not have a decent 7 drop).

Doesn't fit the games I played, Savannah Highmane plus maybe some smaller minions has my hunter opponent having something on the board most of the time. Who cares if hunter has no strong 7-drop when he has two strong deathrattle 6-drops?

I voted NERF! This is like Druid combo, sure they don't all go face but really? Taunt a buffer and a charge and good luck if you have anything on the board when they drop this.

Is your argument really "I can't drop my legendaries the turn he pays Call of the Wild it's op"? 

No, apparently you're not much for reading comprehension.  I said quite clearly that your argument that CotW doesn't directly counter high value legendaries does not preclude it from being inappropriately costed.  That was in response to you saying this.

Neither Ragnaros the Firelord nor Deathwing die to Call of the Wild on the turn it's played unless the Hunter had a board already. Both Ragnaros the Firelord and Deathwing survive the 5 damage from Huffer. The Hunter is not going to be able to use anything with Call of the Wild on turn 8 either. This leaves your Ragnaros the Firelord at 3 health and yourDeathwing at 7. You have an entire turn you get rid of the minions from Call of the Wild while ensuring you maintain your superior board. Remember that Misha and Leokk both cannot attack the turn they are played. 

And oh, by the way, if you have even something as meager as the spiders from Infested Wolf, that Rag is dead and Deathwing still has to deal with Misha.

They actually aren't worth more than 3 mana. I went through that as well in previous posts. It's only "worth more than 3 mana" if you compare it to 3 mana nuetral cards that never see play. When you compare the stats and effect they are right in line with class 3 drops. Think of it this way, if you were to play those 3 cards on turn 8 on an empty board you aren't gain much tempo at all. This is why you get the 1 mana discount. Call fo the Wild is only really effective when you have a board left from turn 7 (which is a tough turn for Hunters since they do not have a decent 7 drop). This is because Leokk allows those minions to trade up (Hunter minions lately have not been know to trade up very well). I explain this in more detail in a previous post. 

So many problems here.  First of all, Fierce Monkey actually does see play at 3 mana.  Misha has the same total stats as Senjin in an arguably better distribution since it will trade with all 3 drops and survive, whereas Senjin can't kill a 3/4.  And maybe you don't remember a little card called Arcane Golem, which saw tons of play pre-nerf as a 3-mana 4/2 charge without a tribal tag and with a meaningful downside.  How about Kor'kron Elite a 4-drop that sees tons of play with only one additional stat point?  If you want to say Leokk is comparable to class 3-drops, I won't really fight you on it.  But you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how to value cards or are simply being disingenuous if you're saying that either Misha or Huffer are comparable to class 3-drops.  By the way, if the three companions were just as good as class 3-drops, Animal Companion would stop being a staple - undercosting the minions at 3 mana compensates you for the randomness of what you get.

And yes, 9 mana, 22 stat points with 5 charge damage and taunt would still be a perfectly fine tempo play.  It's 3 points above vanilla stats plus the immediate damage plus a taunt.  Considering enraged Grom is a minimum of 9 mana with lesser stats, no taunt, and vulnerable to single target removal, albeit with greater charge damage and is played is virtually every Warrior deck, again, you're wrong.  And Warrior can only do that once.

You can also quit pretending like Hunter struggles to keep minions on the board.  It has more / better deathrattles than any other class; and Highmane is a perfectly good T-7 that is virtually guaranteed to leave you a board.

You keep referring to this scenario in which CotW is easily countered because Hunter has no board, opponent has a board, and has a board clear in hand as if that is a normal occurrence.  This only happens in midrange or aggro match-ups in which the Hunter player is getting wrecked.  If you don't have a board and play a board clear (and it happens to be one of the few that will kill 4-mana minions), you're just back to square 1 for whatever follows it - another CotW, Highmane, Rag, whatever.  If you do have a board but no board clear, it's the same thing - Hunter responding on an empty board.

 This is all really irrelevant since Blizzard will almost certainly never nerf an expansion card.  It just exemplifies the only way Blizzard knows to push classes / archetypes - print a few cards, watch them not work, then break down and create something blatantly 1-2 mana overpowered and watch the fireworks.  Same thing withFlamewreathed Faceless for Shaman, MC for Pally, etc. etc.

 Like I said, Call of the Wild is actually fine as is.

This is easily a 9 mana, if not 10 mana card.  The fact that Team 5 is only capable of using broken cards to push classes doesn't make any of them fine.  CotW is broken on the order of Flamewreathed Faceless, and and actually is quite possibly worse.

The card thats really needs a nerf is this: 

Quote from Vetroza >>

HUNTER GETS ONE GODDAMN GOOD CARD = All warriors complain

Come on hunter needed something good when standard rotated out and we got it. Yeah its good but its not broken because its hunter. stop crying warriors, you got op cards

Nerf is not happening  folks, I've said this repeatedly.  

Besides the rotation thing they've only nerfed cards post beta that were in the strongest deck.  Miracle rogue, Undertaker hunter, etc.  They aren't going to nerf a card from a mediocre deck regardless of its strength.  If a deck running Cotw becomes dominant for some time, maybe a nerf is possible....but then again rotations.  Don't hold your breath.

Quote from DragonConsort >>

Nerf is not happening  folks, I've said this repeatedly.  

Besides the rotation thing they've only nerfed cards post beta that were in the strongest deck.  Miracle rogue, Undertaker hunter, etc.  They aren't going to nerf a card from a mediocre deck regardless of its strength.  If a deck running Cotw becomes dominant for some time, maybe a nerf is possible....but then again rotations.  Don't hold your breath.

honstly call of the wild and heymane are 2 broken cards because they are too powerful for their mana cost. and having 4 of these in one deck makes hunter alot more powerful.

becuase classes dont have broken cards for their mana cost and can win the game single handly they will complain if they dont get the perfect answers 

Quote from DarkPeddlerSaysBuyingOrSelling >>

I think CotW is ok. And to be honest.....every class got at leats 1 broken/ powerfull card. Without cards like CotW etc. The game would be SleepStone lmao

it just feels like force of nature savage roar pernerf  with better stats distribution and a 1 card combo and the treants stay alive.

down side only you get 5 damage this turn compared to savage roar 14 damage a turn. so your missing 9 damage and be left with 1 mana compared to the combo

I think the main issue with hunter as a class is if hunter can consistantly win early game against almost every class (as it was when undertaker wasnt nerfed) hunter becomes OP class dominating the whole ladder. CotW is a late game card which doesnt support hunters in early game. Hunter rn still loses early game to shamans, zoo, sometimes even druid. Grandma isnt that annoying and good at early trades like haunted creaper, huntress is a bit combo-ish. Here we came to the point where CotW is good (OP) only against control and midrange decks that doesnt break the meta and archetypes balance. 

Noone complains about war axe or execute or even ghoul. Those are way more broken than cotw. Cotw is good but its still not broken. 

 No, apparently you're not much for reading comprehension.  I said quite clearly that your argument that CotW doesn't directly counter high value legendaries does not preclude it from being inappropriately costed.  That was in response to you saying this.

  My argument is that there are counters available to it that are common in decks at the moment. I even gave an example of a neutral common that counters I was not the one that started comparing it to legendaries.

 So many problems here.  First of all, Fierce Monkey actually does see play at 3 mana.  Misha has the same total stats as Senjin in an arguably better distribution since it will trade with all 3 drops and survive, whereas Senjin can't kill a 3/4

The 1 point variation (which is common between class cards which do the exact same thing) is pretty much irrelevant because of it being distributed to attack. You want taunts to be more durable. This also is why something like Sen'jin Shieldmasta (also because it's a neutral of course) is 4 mana instead of 3.

And maybe you don't remember a little card called Arcane Golem, which saw tons of play pre-nerf as a 3-mana 4/2 charge without a tribal tag and with a meaningful downside.  How about Kor'kron Elite a 4-drop that sees tons of play with only one additional stat point?

Arcane Golem was replaced even pre-nerf by better alternatives a cards were released. Argent Horserider took it's place a majority of the time I would say as it was more durable and accomplished the same thing. Arcane Golem really was only seen in the odd combo deck later on. Korkron I am unsure why it's oplayed when it's clearly understated for it's cost. I'm thinking it has to do with Warrior's lack of tools for aggression. They have Alexstraza's Champion but it requires you to build your deck around dragons which are inherently not very aggressive cards. 

 But you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how to value cards or are simply being disingenuous if you're saying that either Misha or Huffer are comparable to class 3-drops.

They are. I urge you to go back and read my earlier post. 

 By the way, if the three companions were just as good as class 3-drops, Animal Companion would stop being a staple - undercosting the minions at 3 mana compensates you for the randomness of what you get.

Why wouldn't it see play if what you get out of it is equal in power to other 3 cost minions. That makes absolutely no sense at all. 

 You keep referring to this scenario in which CotW is easily countered because Hunter has no board, opponent has a board, and has a board clear in hand as if that is a normal occurrence.[quote] I was illustrating the point that the 3 minions by themselves are low impact. Really what makes the card strong is if you have minions already in play when you play Call of the Wild. The Hunter typically has a rough turn 7 as well as they do not have an on curve minion they can play. The Hunter is having to set his turn 8 turn 6 and before. The scenario though whee the Hunter does not have a board on turn 8 is quite common though depending on the largely the draw of the 2 players. If the Hunter's opponent is able to answer the Hunter this can happen and if the Hunter has a bad draw this can also happen. Remember that Hunters lack draw power.      [quote] And yes, 9 mana, 22 stat points with 5 charge damage and taunt would still be a perfectly fine tempo play.  It's 3 points above vanilla stats plus the immediate damage plus a taunt.  Considering enraged Grom is a minimum of 9 mana with lesser stats, no taunt, and vulnerable to single target removal, albeit with greater charge damage and is played is virtually every Warrior deck, again, you're wrong.  And Warrior can only do that once.

Northsea Kraken is actually even with what Call of the Wild would be at 9 mana. Northsea Kraken does 4 immediate damage and is a 9/7 body. The difference is the 4 damage is guaranteed and doesn't cause you to "lose stats" (Huffer dies when it attacks a minion leaving you with a 5/4 and a 2/4) after it's immediate effect. a 9/7 can still trade with any 9 drops after it's effect, a 5/4 and a 2/4 cannot. I explain this further and more in my previous post.   

 You can also quit pretending like Hunter struggles to keep minions on the board.  It has more / better deathrattles than any other class; and Highmane is a perfectly good T-7 that is virtually guaranteed to leave you a board.

  Deathrattles aren't amazing so having the best deathrattles means nothing when the bar is set very low. Hunter deathrattles are nothing special either. A lot of them are still major tempo losses. So the Hunter's turn 6 9 times out of 10 wasn't good meaning the opponent's opportunity to swing tempo in their favor came 1 turn earlier. This is even ignoring the fact that at 7 mana there are multiple ways to deal with Savannah Highmane that actually end with the Hunter's opponent not only clearing Savannah Highmane but coming out ahead on board. 

 You keep referring to this scenario in which CotW is easily countered because Hunter has no board, opponent has a board, and has a board clear in hand as if that is a normal occurrence.  This only happens in midrange or aggro match-ups in which the Hunter player is getting wrecked.  If you don't have a board and play a board clear (and it happens to be one of the few that will kill 4-mana minions), you're just back to square 1 for whatever follows it - another CotW, Highmane, Rag, whatever.  If you do have a board but no board clear, it's the same thing - Hunter responding on an empty board.

It is a common occurrence depending on either the Hunter or the Hunter's opponent's draw. If the Hunter has a bad draw or if the Hunter's opponent has a good enough draw it happens. This is what puts Hunters in a peculiar situation. They have no draw which means they rely solely on the draw you get at the beginning of each turn.  It occurs vs not just aggro and other mid-range decks, it happens against Tempo, Miracle, and even against some control decks. Call of the Wild is the entirety of their meaning after it they have run out of steam and will not be able to put out significant enough pressure to out last heals/ massive armor gain, etc. Thisis one reason why Priest (when it Is strong) does really well against Hunter. It has really good removal against Hunter minions and has the tools to out last the Hunter. Being able to Entomb a Hunter's Savannah Highmane, for example, not only removes the minion wihtout triggering the deathrattle but it also shrinks the Hunters deck into being mostly low mana cards. Depending on what deck is facign off against Hunter clearign the Call of the Wild can win you the game.   

 This is easily a 9 mana, if not 10 mana card.  The fact that Team 5 is only capable of using broken cards to push classes doesn't make any of them fine.  CotW is broken on the order of Flamewreathed Faceless, and and actually is quite possibly worse.

Like I have been suggesting, please go read my previous posts. I disprove your claim. 

This one time I played as a priest and won. It was magical. 

Lol jk.

The problem with Call of the Wild, is that it seems like a brutal hotfix for the hunter class. The class didn't really see much play anymore, so they printed an absolute powerhouse on 8 to pull it back up. The problem is IMO, that now hunter decks rely on it way too much, and pretty much every hunter just tries to get to turn 8 so they can bust it out. Makes the class pretty one dimesional.

Quote from BVanScoy1 >>

And maybe you don't remember a little card called Arcane Golem, which saw tons of play pre-nerf as a 3-mana 4/2 charge without a tribal tag and with a meaningful downside.  How about Kor'kron Elite a 4-drop that sees tons of play with only one additional stat point?

 

Arcane Golem was replaced even pre-nerf by better alternatives a cards were released. Argent Horserider took it's place a majority of the time I would say as it was more durable and accomplished the same thing. Arcane Golem really was only seen in the odd combo deck later on.

Korkron I am unsure why it's oplayed when it's clearly understated for it's cost. I'm thinking it has to do with Warrior's lack of tools for aggression. They have Alexstraza's Champion but it requires you to build your deck around dragons which are inherently not very aggressive cards. 

 But you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how to value cards or are simply being disingenuous if you're saying that either Misha or Huffer are comparable to class 3-drops.

They are. I urge you to go back and read my earlier post.

I stopped taking you seriously right here, Arcane Golemn was never replaced by Argent Horserider in any aggressive deck and saying Huffer or Misha are equivalent to other class 3 drops is a joke when you look at how much they curve above Wolfrider and Dancing Swords or nerfed Arcane Golem - which are statted at 4/4 without Taunt, without a Tribe and have a drawback, hell Misha is even better than Fierce Mokey and on par with Senjin Shieldmaster for God's sake.

The problem with Team 5 is that their design philosophy is garbage, so they have to purposely release over powered cards to raise a class win% instead of retooling their base set. The problem with call is that at 9 mana it's just another card, but at 8 mana it's broken ... which is a lot like Call of the Hounds.