Xaril is really good, and having used it a couple times from Journey Below, it has totally made a good impression on me. I have never used Van Cleef, but I think its a pretty good card, and is probably useful in a wider variety of rogue decks.
I am also missing Bloodmage Thalnos, but I think it can be replaced easier than Edwin or Xaril.
Xaril has lots of utility and helps with Gadgetzan Auctioneer, but Vancleef is insane and is great in the meta with the nerfs to silence and BGH.....
I really need help from an expert rogue player! I just can't decide!
I think they are both very good in most rogue decks. This is especially true with them together. I would say if you are finding the class good fun to play, work towards crafting both. I personally find Xaril the most fun card in the game at the moment, but Van Cleef is the card that got me into playing mostly rogue in the first place.
Van Cleef is better in the long run (since it will always be in standard), but Xaril is still around for 2 years so i guess that's not too important. I guess you could argue that you don't need to craft Xaril as much since it is so easy to get from Journey Below?
Sorry i can't give an answer one way or the other, but you can't go wrong with either!
The thing is, Xaril really help at enabling the Auctioneers... Ah I just can't really decide. My immediate thought it to craft Xaril, but the back of my mind is telling my to craft Edwin.
I could DE Rafaam, Maexxa, a golden Lay on Hands (don't worry I have another one), and some other stuff to craft it..... Maybe Baron Rivendale?
I'd strongly recommend X'aril. I've played with both and they are both good cards, but I think there's a key difference.
X'aril gives you a much greater ability to play a strong miracle-type game with auctioneer, and thus opens up what kind of rogue decks you can construct. Edwin is a nice tempo card Ina wide range of rogue decks, but isn't really essential to any and can often be replaced by another solid body minion (squidface for example).
Tldr: X'aril is more unique and much harder to replace. I would craft him.
Edwin is still the better card if you'll be playing miracle rogue decks. He is a part of your win condition by making a 10/10 to 12/12 and concealing him with Gadgetzan Auctioneer (w/ cold blood). Xaril is an enabler card that makes drawing cards from Auctioneer better, or provides extra reach, or make Edwin even bigger.
I consider X'aril the best independant legendary of the set. The poisons offer so much value and enable amazing plays, not even talking about enabling combos or Gadzetan.
In my opinion all 3 Legendaries are core cards for Rogue, but my crafting order would be Xaril > Edwin > Thalnos.
I have decided to DE some crappy adventure legendaries and craft both. Rogue is really fun for me, and I already have viable decks to use when I really want to rank up. The next xpac is an adventure, so I won't need to dust for that. Thank you all for your opinions, I think that both cards are very good, and the best answer is to get both.
Both cards perform extremely well right now have good synergy with one another.
Early big Edwin VanCleef is no longer a liability thanks to the nerfs and it can be combo-ed, buffed on board and returned to your hand/replayed with Xaril, Poisoned Mind's toxins. This powerhouse tandem is further enhanced by Shadowcaster.
Vancleef can win you the game. Xaril just makes auctioneer turns better. Vancleef is also great in every matchup, while Xaril suffers from aggro with subpar stats, and hes easy to replace. Go with Vancleef.
Xaril is an enabler, he allows your deck to actually function how it's supposed to. Sure he is not the one who slams the face of your opponent for 8+ damage, but he is the fuel needed for your machine to function properly. It's like people not understanding the big picture, but only individual plays.
I feel like the real answer to this question is just to craft both. I have won many games on the hands of both of them, they are really irreplaceable. As for people saying that Xaril is a tempo loss, I believe that the tempo loss is made up by the massive amount of tempo that rogues have. Backstab and dagger and also preparation really help. Xaril + Backstab to clear what they have is actually a really good play, as Xaril can usually trade into something else (unless they have Cthun cthun cthun). Another thing is that every toxin is REALLY good in miracle rogue. The 2 damage one is great to control the board, the draw a card one can cylcle (and work well with auctioneer), the +3 attack is good when comboing off, to buff minions then play conceal. The shadowstep one is probably the least useful, but is still great. It has synergy with most of your deck. Finally the stealth one is obviously amazing. Works wonders with Auctioneer, but is also great for stealthing Edwin/cold-blooded minion to get the kill next turn.
Edwin is a really nice card, great synergy with the rest of your deck (especially conceal) and is great after comboing off to play Edwin then conceal, for a very high chance of winning.
After crafting both, and using both quite a bit, I really feel like both are very necessary for miracle rogue.
I honestly feel that if you are serious about playing competitve rogue decks, you'll eventually need to craft all three. The main question is in what order. Van Cleef's power level took a huge boost with cheap silence rotating out of the current meta, he is game winning with tempo god hands in rogue early game. Xaril's utility is approaching Bloodmage Thalnos levels in Miracle decks especially, but even in decks without Auctioneer. And absolutely do not underrate Thalnos. He's not large and flashy legendary (feels weird to craft a 1/1 legendary), but is close to broken in Rogue and has been for a long time.
I crafted Xaril and have been super happy ever since. He's got a ton of usefulness in a number of rogue decks. Each of the toxins has a useful application so he's a really cool card. I've never owned Van Cleef so I wouldn't know anything for him.
The 3 of them are pretty important in miracle rogue. Thalnos is good for card draw, cheap combo activator or spell damage depending of the situation that you are. Xaril's toxins are also very good thay can help you create crazy combos activate ur auctioneers and get that extra damage needed for a lethal turn. And vancleef is a unique card that can be a win condition of its own in certain matchups or just a body to play for tempo, it just depends on the situation that you are and who you are playing against. The 3 of them are crucial in miracle rogue. As well as leeroy jeankins which is your finisher and can be also combined with cold bloods for 14 damage and can be played again for 6 more if u get lucky get the toxin that has the same effect as shadowstep.
For rogue it is definitely Van Cleef first, Thalnos next, and Xaril last. Xaril is good but not as needed as the other two. No matter what though, Van Cleef is good in all rogue decks and well worth crafting first.
Ignoring bloodmage thalnos (who has really good utility and you'll want eventually) I would strongly recommend Edwin. He is part of the win condition as miracle rogues are already limited in damage. If you don't have Leeroy either Edwin is a better choice in my opinion. Even though xaril helps generate some decent cards and helps auctioneer, don't get so caught up in auctioneer that you lose the big picture. Against faster decks you can use Edwin to slow the game as he is a huge threat for the opponent to leave out and you can either conceal him against control decks or force them to pour resources into killing him off.
-wouldn't consider myself a rogue expert by any means, this is just from my experiences playing miracle and against it
So, I really enjoy playing rogue, (mainly miracle) and i'm really torn between Xaril, Poisoned Mind and Edwin VanCleef.
Xaril is really good, and having used it a couple times from Journey Below, it has totally made a good impression on me. I have never used Van Cleef, but I think its a pretty good card, and is probably useful in a wider variety of rogue decks.
I am also missing Bloodmage Thalnos, but I think it can be replaced easier than Edwin or Xaril.
Xaril has lots of utility and helps with Gadgetzan Auctioneer, but Vancleef is insane and is great in the meta with the nerfs to silence and BGH.....
I really need help from an expert rogue player! I just can't decide!
I think they are both very good in most rogue decks. This is especially true with them together. I would say if you are finding the class good fun to play, work towards crafting both. I personally find Xaril the most fun card in the game at the moment, but Van Cleef is the card that got me into playing mostly rogue in the first place.
Van Cleef is better in the long run (since it will always be in standard), but Xaril is still around for 2 years so i guess that's not too important. I guess you could argue that you don't need to craft Xaril as much since it is so easy to get from Journey Below?
Sorry i can't give an answer one way or the other, but you can't go wrong with either!
The thing is, Xaril really help at enabling the Auctioneers... Ah I just can't really decide. My immediate thought it to craft Xaril, but the back of my mind is telling my to craft Edwin.
I could DE Rafaam, Maexxa, a golden Lay on Hands (don't worry I have another one), and some other stuff to craft it..... Maybe Baron Rivendale?
I'd strongly recommend X'aril. I've played with both and they are both good cards, but I think there's a key difference.
X'aril gives you a much greater ability to play a strong miracle-type game with auctioneer, and thus opens up what kind of rogue decks you can construct. Edwin is a nice tempo card Ina wide range of rogue decks, but isn't really essential to any and can often be replaced by another solid body minion (squidface for example).
Tldr: X'aril is more unique and much harder to replace. I would craft him.
play both Xaril and EVC in miracle...easy both cards are great
Edwin is still the better card if you'll be playing miracle rogue decks. He is a part of your win condition by making a 10/10 to 12/12 and concealing him with Gadgetzan Auctioneer (w/ cold blood). Xaril is an enabler card that makes drawing cards from Auctioneer better, or provides extra reach, or make Edwin even bigger.
I consider X'aril the best independant legendary of the set. The poisons offer so much value and enable amazing plays, not even talking about enabling combos or Gadzetan.
In my opinion all 3 Legendaries are core cards for Rogue, but my crafting order would be Xaril > Edwin > Thalnos.
I have decided to DE some crappy adventure legendaries and craft both. Rogue is really fun for me, and I already have viable decks to use when I really want to rank up. The next xpac is an adventure, so I won't need to dust for that. Thank you all for your opinions, I think that both cards are very good, and the best answer is to get both.
Both cards perform extremely well right now have good synergy with one another.
Early big Edwin VanCleef is no longer a liability thanks to the nerfs and it can be combo-ed, buffed on board and returned to your hand/replayed with Xaril, Poisoned Mind's toxins. This powerhouse tandem is further enhanced by Shadowcaster.
Had the same predicament, ended up crafting both. No regrets.
Vancleef can win you the game. Xaril just makes auctioneer turns better. Vancleef is also great in every matchup, while Xaril suffers from aggro with subpar stats, and hes easy to replace. Go with Vancleef.
Honestly this is an easy decision. Vancleef wins games by himself, xaril doesn't.
VanCleef wins games but Xaril doesn't? Lol what?
Xaril is an enabler, he allows your deck to actually function how it's supposed to. Sure he is not the one who slams the face of your opponent for 8+ damage, but he is the fuel needed for your machine to function properly. It's like people not understanding the big picture, but only individual plays.
I feel like the real answer to this question is just to craft both. I have won many games on the hands of both of them, they are really irreplaceable. As for people saying that Xaril is a tempo loss, I believe that the tempo loss is made up by the massive amount of tempo that rogues have. Backstab and dagger and also preparation really help. Xaril + Backstab to clear what they have is actually a really good play, as Xaril can usually trade into something else (unless they have Cthun cthun cthun). Another thing is that every toxin is REALLY good in miracle rogue. The 2 damage one is great to control the board, the draw a card one can cylcle (and work well with auctioneer), the +3 attack is good when comboing off, to buff minions then play conceal. The shadowstep one is probably the least useful, but is still great. It has synergy with most of your deck. Finally the stealth one is obviously amazing. Works wonders with Auctioneer, but is also great for stealthing Edwin/cold-blooded minion to get the kill next turn.
Edwin is a really nice card, great synergy with the rest of your deck (especially conceal) and is great after comboing off to play Edwin then conceal, for a very high chance of winning.
After crafting both, and using both quite a bit, I really feel like both are very necessary for miracle rogue.
I honestly feel that if you are serious about playing competitve rogue decks, you'll eventually need to craft all three. The main question is in what order. Van Cleef's power level took a huge boost with cheap silence rotating out of the current meta, he is game winning with tempo god hands in rogue early game. Xaril's utility is approaching Bloodmage Thalnos levels in Miracle decks especially, but even in decks without Auctioneer. And absolutely do not underrate Thalnos. He's not large and flashy legendary (feels weird to craft a 1/1 legendary), but is close to broken in Rogue and has been for a long time.
I crafted Xaril and have been super happy ever since. He's got a ton of usefulness in a number of rogue decks. Each of the toxins has a useful application so he's a really cool card. I've never owned Van Cleef so I wouldn't know anything for him.
The 3 of them are pretty important in miracle rogue. Thalnos is good for card draw, cheap combo activator or spell damage depending of the situation that you are. Xaril's toxins are also very good thay can help you create crazy combos activate ur auctioneers and get that extra damage needed for a lethal turn. And vancleef is a unique card that can be a win condition of its own in certain matchups or just a body to play for tempo, it just depends on the situation that you are and who you are playing against. The 3 of them are crucial in miracle rogue. As well as leeroy jeankins which is your finisher and can be also combined with cold bloods for 14 damage and can be played again for 6 more if u get lucky get the toxin that has the same effect as shadowstep.
For rogue it is definitely Van Cleef first, Thalnos next, and Xaril last. Xaril is good but not as needed as the other two. No matter what though, Van Cleef is good in all rogue decks and well worth crafting first.
Ignoring bloodmage thalnos (who has really good utility and you'll want eventually) I would strongly recommend Edwin. He is part of the win condition as miracle rogues are already limited in damage. If you don't have Leeroy either Edwin is a better choice in my opinion. Even though xaril helps generate some decent cards and helps auctioneer, don't get so caught up in auctioneer that you lose the big picture. Against faster decks you can use Edwin to slow the game as he is a huge threat for the opponent to leave out and you can either conceal him against control decks or force them to pour resources into killing him off.
-wouldn't consider myself a rogue expert by any means, this is just from my experiences playing miracle and against it
The competition for a card slot in miracle builds is between Xaril and Violet Teacher.