I think costing more than 20 would be fine if the cost reduction was actually based on how much damage your hero has taken, rather than how much it is currently missing. Costing 30 as a baseline and actually doing what the text reads would make it a fine card.
only playable in reno mage because they have ice block. most classes can burst down someone under 10 health. besides, 25 mana makes it completely unplayable in control matchups.
This nerf was needed. Think about that. Handlock,Renolock,they are under control now,and you know why? because just every single druid pisses on it most of the time. But now that the combo druid has lose it's combo,those deck are not under control anymore,and i understand why they nerf this card and arcane golem
Honestly this makes sense. Between arcane golem nerf, the druid nerf, and the removal of old murkeye from standard it's highly likely there was some handlock variation that was absolutely destroying everything in internal testing and validation. The sort of deck which 'lose' the entire game then kill all at once kind of dump on handlock.
Okay okay... you people aren't looking at the other nerfed cards clearly... this doesn't change anything in handlock... we handlocks tap till we are at 4 hp most of the time this does not stop the molten molten argus combo. Why? Well alot of the cards that CLEAR the early game giants are being changed horribly.. BGH is gonna be 5 mana.... 4 -3 mana giant on turn 4, they have to BGH, a 5 mana BGH is a massive tempo loss for them... 5 mana 4/2 seriously. that's really bad if the warlock has 2 giants out and a twilight drake... example... turn 6 the warlock has both giants out and a twilight... You can't clear that with a simple BGH and hex pretty much thepoint im getting at is that the changes they gave to the cards that actually kinda fucked handlocks some times when played were nerfed horribly into the locks favour, Giants will stick around longer early game and mid, with the change to alot of the rush deck answers to massive cards being now horribly changed.handlock will have 0 sh*ts about tapping constantly. no arcane golem + buff anymore to worry about juggler doesn't trade favourably anymore with say.. Earthen ring now lock and drop it heal himself and kill the juggler and keep his 3/1 around. these changes are not bad for a control player, rush just got bitch slapped hard.
terrible in arena, but what arena loses, Holy Wrath gains :)
Yeah I was pretty worried about echoes mage, but since Ice Block didn't get touched, looks like the good old double molten, reno + echo is sticking around.
On the contrary to popular opinion i like this change. Handlock and reno had too many threats and an easy way to recover from any downsides. You drop a ton of 8/8s, taunt them and heal back up to full HP marking an auto concede. Too much value and too efficient with an average draw even.
You can always play molten giant earlier....like you know not for free. At 10 health like always, a 5 mana 8/8 giant. Oh wait can't do the 2 molten giant for 0 mana+Defender of Argus combo putting 37 stats with 32 of them having taunt for 4 mana total? Then having 6 mana for something else? Too bad.
Handlock still has mountain giants which take a major leap in power (already top tier in Handlock) due to the BGH nerf.
Okay okay... you people aren't looking at the other nerfed cards clearly... this doesn't change anything in handlock... we handlocks tap till we are at 4 hp most of the time this does not stop the molten molten argus combo. Why? Well alot of the cards that CLEAR the early game giants are being changed horribly.. BGH is gonna be 5 mana.... 4 -3 mana giant on turn 4, they have to BGH, a 5 mana BGH is a massive tempo loss for them... 5 mana 4/2 seriously. that's really bad if the warlock has 2 giants out and a twilight drake... example... turn 6 the warlock has both giants out and a twilight... You can't clear that with a simple BGH and hex pretty much thepoint im getting at is that the changes they gave to the cards that actually kinda fucked handlocks some times when played were nerfed horribly into the locks favour, Giants will stick around longer early game and mid, with the change to alot of the rush deck answers to massive cards being now horribly changed.handlock will have 0 sh*ts about tapping constantly. no arcane golem + buff anymore to worry about juggler doesn't trade favourably anymore with say.. Earthen ring now lock and drop it heal himself and kill the juggler and keep his 3/1 around. these changes are not bad for a control player, rush just got bitch slapped hard.
You got a point, but this nerf was in my opinion missdirected in terms which card was hit and not which deck. Moltens are already suicidal until you put huge effort to back them up, because there are was to bypass them, even when you taunt. Only thing what could seem as broken, and in need to fix was maybe Molten into Shadowflame combo, but even then it leaves you open most of the time. Now if we find them unplayable/too risky to use, then they will be just switched to frost giants, which seems to be bit more versatile at this moment. This switch won't hurt too much, and there still will be problem, how to answer 2-4 giants, where handlock still can get 2 Mountains early without much problems. But well, we'll see that in time.
Oh wait can't do the 2 molten giant for 0 mana+Defender of Argus combo putting 37 stats with 32 of them having taunt for 4 mana total? Then having 6 mana for something else? Too bad.
Actually, you can, if you are lucky to survive at <5 hp. And for 6 mana - Reno Jackson to heal. Perfect turn.
You can always play molten giant earlier....like you know not for free. At 10 health like always, a 5 mana 8/8 giant. Oh wait can't do the 2 molten giant for 0 mana+Defender of Argus combo putting 37 stats with 32 of them having taunt for 4 mana total? Then having 6 mana for something else? Too bad.
Handlock still has mountain giants which take a major leap in power (already top tier in Handlock) due to the BGH nerf.
Yeeeah... no.
See, a vanilla 5 mana 8/8 would have to fight for its place in anything as is (look at the stats a 6 drop is meant to produce (Cairne, Highmane) or the utility a 5 drop is meant to produce (Loatheb, Harrison))... but this isn't vanilla... you can't cast it on 5 (or you've lost anyway) and can't cast it and a removal on 10 in the control matchup. Being within a spell and a half of death of cast a 5 cost 8/8 is simply untenable .
I don't think molten giant will be good enough to be played now. % health is a lot harder to manage than 10 health.
Oh no, now it costs 5 mana to play an 8/8 when you're at 10 health! That is a STEAL still.
It's actually damn important that it costs 5 at 10 health. You used to be able to go to 10 and drop double Molten + Argus and be reasonably sure you would survive for a turn. Basically they needed to be able to silence/destroy 2 targets to kill you, since most of the time 10 health is enough to survive against spells (not dead to Fireball, single Kill Command, etc). It forced your opponent to interact with your board instead of being able to just go face, and it was your single most powerful tool. Now you need to be at 5 to do this. 5 health is not reasonable; you're dead to commonly played spells (Fireball, single Kill Command, etc). Additionally, healbot is leaving standard. Other than your singleton Siphon Soul, potential Reno, potential Alexstrasza, and potential Lord Jaraxxus, Warlock has no viable (don't try to argue some bullcrap like Demonic Pact) healing options. If you go to 5, you're stuck there. You can't really afford to do that. I think Handlock might survive in Wild, but in Standard, where it looked like a fun and interesting control shell to play with C'thun and other things, it is likely no longer viable.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hearthstone is a math game. If you think it's overpowered, do the math, compare it to other similar cards, and then if it doesn't all add up, complain about it being overpowered.
Do y'all think I should just go ahead and dust mine? I'm a little conflicted. I've already gotten rid of my Blade Flurries, Arcane Golems, and one Ancient of Lore. Been debating dusting the Molten Giants and the Force of Natures...
Do y'all think I should just go ahead and dust mine? I'm a little conflicted. I've already gotten rid of my Blade Flurries, Arcane Golems, and one Ancient of Lore. Been debating dusting the Molten Giants and the Force of Natures...
Dust all, because u can always craft them back for the same amount of dust anytime later if u regret that u dusted them. When there is a nerf always dust and see if the card is still viable in a little while.
no you cant lol it costs more
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
All hail Frost Giants!
I think costing more than 20 would be fine if the cost reduction was actually based on how much damage your hero has taken, rather than how much it is currently missing. Costing 30 as a baseline and actually doing what the text reads would make it a fine card.
Holy Wrath buff? jk
Over nerf :(
only playable in reno mage because they have ice block. most classes can burst down someone under 10 health. besides, 25 mana makes it completely unplayable in control matchups.
14 mana: cost (1) less mana for every (2) damage your hero has taken. I really think this would be better.
Original: 20hp = 10M 10hp = 0M 5hp = 0M Jarraxxus: 7hp = 12M 5hp = 10M 3hp = 8M
25 Mana: 20hp = 15M 10hp = 5M 5hp = 0M 7hp = 17M 5hp = 15M 3hp = 13M
14 M / 2 dmg: 20hp = 9M 10hp = 4M 5hp = 2M 7hp = 10M 5hp = 9M 3hp = 8M
So I have to be at 15 health to drop a 10 mana 8/8 with no effect?
and with a weaker reno warlock and druid control warrior is going to be insane
Okay okay... you people aren't looking at the other nerfed cards clearly... this doesn't change anything in handlock... we handlocks tap till we are at 4 hp most of the time this does not stop the molten molten argus combo. Why? Well alot of the cards that CLEAR the early game giants are being changed horribly.. BGH is gonna be 5 mana.... 4 -3 mana giant on turn 4, they have to BGH, a 5 mana BGH is a massive tempo loss for them... 5 mana 4/2 seriously. that's really bad if the warlock has 2 giants out and a twilight drake... example... turn 6 the warlock has both giants out and a twilight... You can't clear that with a simple BGH and hex pretty much thepoint im getting at is that the changes they gave to the cards that actually kinda fucked handlocks some times when played were nerfed horribly into the locks favour, Giants will stick around longer early game and mid, with the change to alot of the rush deck answers to massive cards being now horribly changed.handlock will have 0 sh*ts about tapping constantly. no arcane golem + buff anymore to worry about juggler doesn't trade favourably anymore with say.. Earthen ring now lock and drop it heal himself and kill the juggler and keep his 3/1 around. these changes are not bad for a control player, rush just got bitch slapped hard.
Nope. Maybe at 22 or 23 cost... But not 25.
Could still be played in echo giants/renomage
doubt handlock will exist anymore
reno lock may use one, probably not
terrible in arena, but what arena loses, Holy Wrath gains :)
On the contrary to popular opinion i like this change. Handlock and reno had too many threats and an easy way to recover from any downsides. You drop a ton of 8/8s, taunt them and heal back up to full HP marking an auto concede. Too much value and too efficient with an average draw even.
You can always play molten giant earlier....like you know not for free. At 10 health like always, a 5 mana 8/8 giant. Oh wait can't do the 2 molten giant for 0 mana+Defender of Argus combo putting 37 stats with 32 of them having taunt for 4 mana total? Then having 6 mana for something else? Too bad.
Handlock still has mountain giants which take a major leap in power (already top tier in Handlock) due to the BGH nerf.
Hearthstone is a math game. If you think it's overpowered, do the math, compare it to other similar cards, and then if it doesn't all add up, complain about it being overpowered.
Do y'all think I should just go ahead and dust mine? I'm a little conflicted. I've already gotten rid of my Blade Flurries, Arcane Golems, and one Ancient of Lore. Been debating dusting the Molten Giants and the Force of Natures...