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Card Nerf - Force of Nature

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Poll: What do you think about this nerf?

#295 Apr 25, 2016 (Classic Nerfs)
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Quote from Epitok >>

What data ? Bots did it with secret pal but also with aggro shaman, grinder shaman, face hunter and Zoolock. That does not mean those decks requires absolutely no skill to play.

He never said secret paladin or the other decks u listed require no skill but rather its easier to be played than combo druid.

Bot data show that there are a number of easier decks to pilot with higher win % than combo druid. Namely face shaman,secret pala and couple other aggresive decks thoughout the hisroty of the game like zoo, face hunter among others. Druid not included.

So u were wrong all along saying combo druid is the easiest deck.

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#296 Apr 26, 2016 (Old Gods)
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Quote from Skiddo_Publiq >>

Quote from Epitok >>

What data ? Bots did it with secret pal but also with aggro shaman, grinder shaman, face hunter and Zoolock. That does not mean those decks requires absolutely no skill to play.

He never said secret paladin or the other decks u listed require no skill but rather its easier to be played than combo druid.

Bot data show that there are a number of easier decks to pilot with higher win % than combo druid. Namely face shaman,secret pala and couple other aggresive decks thoughout the hisroty of the game like zoo, face hunter among others. Druid not included.

So u were wrong all along saying combo druid is the easiest deck.

I'm not taking any side, all the decks mentioned above are cancer and easy as fuck to pilot. But you can't conclude from bots which deck is the easiest, it just says which deck gets less punished for mistakes. Aggro shaman has a better play that requires thought sometimes. (thinking about next turns with overload e.g.) and combo druid needs that for ''Mmm, me do damage face so he has 14 health and I have lethal next turn''. However, bots can't think ahead for the next turns, and bots don't understand the 'play to win, don't play to survive'' concept. These concepts are essential for druid, and a bot can't understand these. But just because a bot can't understand it, doesn't mean it is hard. A shaman gets less punished for not thinking ahead.

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Fuck cubelock
#297 Apr 26, 2016 (Old Gods)
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Quote from Skiddo_Publiq >>

Quote from Epitok >>

What data ? Bots did it with secret pal but also with aggro shaman, grinder shaman, face hunter and Zoolock. That does not mean those decks requires absolutely no skill to play.

He never said secret paladin or the other decks u listed require no skill but rather its easier to be played than combo druid.

Bot data show that there are a number of easier decks to pilot with higher win % than combo druid. Namely face shaman,secret pala and couple other aggresive decks thoughout the hisroty of the game like zoo, face hunter among others. Druid not included.

So u were wrong all along saying combo druid is the easiest deck.

I'd rather not engage in a argument on this matter for the sake of argument but the fact that some bots did reach legend with the deck has absolutely nothing to do with the skill required to play a deck. This is a subjective matter.

A bot playing chess can beat a lot of high level chess pros consistently and a that does not mean the "game of chess" is easy to play and required no skill. A bot can also beat you at rock / Paper / Scissors which is much easier to play, there is absolutely no correlation between a successful bot and "skill required".

I myself find combo druid very easy to play consistently that's my opinion. Stating this fact using "a bot did it" is not a valid argument.

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#298 Apr 26, 2016 (Old Gods)
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Quote from Maukiepaukie >>

I'm not taking any side, all the decks mentioned above are cancer and easy as fuck to pilot. But you can't conclude from bots which deck is the easiest, it just says which deck gets less punished for mistakes. Aggro shaman has a better play that requires thought sometimes. (thinking about next turns with overload e.g.) and combo druid needs that for ''Mmm, me do damage face so he has 14 health and I have lethal next turn''. However, bots can't think ahead for the next turns, and bots don't understand the 'play to win, don't play to survive'' concept. These concepts are essential for druid, and a bot can't understand these. But just because a bot can't understand it, doesn't mean it is hard. A shaman gets less punished for not thinking ahead.

Yea pretty much this. Bots show what decks get less punished for doing mistakes and what decks can snowball the game just by playing on curve.

You are saying that thinking about next turns isnt hard but thats relative. A person smarter than you cn think more turns ahead and another less smart person cant think said turns ahead. So whats the normal to judge? You or the smarter person or someone else? You cnt really judge objectively like that. What seems easy for you, to others might seem hard and what seems hard to you to others might seem easy. Bots help clear those lines because they are the same person doing a plethora of tasks.

You might program the bot to make it think turns ahead or have a battle plan or whatever and ur win %'s with all decks will improve, some more some less. But guess what u did. You improved the bot aka made it smarter. Just because 2 things are easy it doesnt mean one isnt easier than another.

So the "bot reaching legend" example might not be entirely correct but i think its a pretty good anchor to start evaluating.

Quote from Epitok >>

I'd rather not engage in a argument on this matter for the sake of argument but the fact that some bots did reach legend with the deck has absolutely nothing to do with the skill required to play a deck. This is a subjective matter.

A bot playing chess can beat a lot of high level chess pros consistently and a that does not mean the "game of chess" is easy to play and required no skill. A bot can also beat you at rock / Paper / Scissors which is much easier to play, there is absolutely no correlation between a successful bot and "skill required".

I myself find combo druid very easy to play consistently that's my opinion. Stating this fact using "a bot did it" is not a valid argument.

Hearthstone, chess and r/p/s isnt the same game as well as bots are not the same.

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