For those unfamiliar with the card this is it: Succubus.
Oh the potential. I'm currently in the middle of testing an experimental warlock deck and this card can only be described as life-ruining.
Here's a list of reasons why the Succubus card is the greatest thing ever: -She makes sure priests stay in obscurity by whipping them into the ground before they even get rolling. -The only viable response to coining her out on turn one is a Fiery War Axe from a warrior (which is currently under-represented in the meta) or if you just so happen to be playing against a warlock that just so happens to have their own turn 1 Flame Imp. Oh yea, and druids can wrath her; if they have it (if they don't tho - MMM; the salt is so tasty.). -No 1 drop (except Flame Imp) in the game can kill the Succubus by themselves, which means tempo gain. -Her golden animation is simple but quite impressive. -She's the strongest one/two turn drop in the game (rightfully so, considering the drawback). -The tempo gain tho. -"Warlocks have it pretty good.", enough said.
Now to be real for a little bit; here's what I see the succubus card as. You're essentially playing soul fire as a minion without charge(for 2 mana), and you're banking on the fact that the succubus will do more than a soul fire (maybe even 2 soul fires, if not more) could. On top of the fact it's a very good minion that competes with 3 and 4 drops in terms of raw stats; so more often than not she's doing nice chunks of damage and taking down at least 2 of the opponent's cards with her. All of which has an extremely high potential of happening if you just bite the bullet and play her as soon as you can. Especially if in opening hand.
I probably should just label succubus as a "High risk, high reward" card; which epitomizes it (along with some other warlock cards) very well; assuming varying amount of risk vs reward.
I would say that the card is underappreciated, but not necessarily good. druids have a slightly better play with coin + Innervate into yeti, though innervate is a very specific discard, so to speak.
it has some potential in the opening hand as an early tempo lead but late game you start rolling the dice on accidentally discarding win conditions
I can easily name two reasons why Succubus is bad: Soulfire, Doomguard
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I'm so glad there is prejudice against playing hunter/zoo/[insert FotM deck here]. People like that make the life so much easier for those of us who play to win.
Succubus is terrible, because she's so inefficient. Sure, you gain tempo up front, but you lose tempo due to playing her since you have to lifetap sooner. She can work out, but I'd rather run Miillhouse Manastorm, as terrible as he is. There's a chance the only spell he has in his hand is Innervate, right?
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Unless explicitly stated, my posts are my opinion and mine only.
I can easily name two reasons why Succubus is bad: Soulfire, Doomguard
Soulfire has the same drawback (but is a spell) and Doomguard comes in much, much later.
My point is that Soulfire and Doomguard are both much stronger, so you pretty much have to run them. The problem is that discard effects interfere with each other, because they reduce the chance you can play them with an empty hand. Essentially they get much worse in multiples, and Succubus is the worst one, so it gets the cut.
I'm so glad there is prejudice against playing hunter/zoo/[insert FotM deck here]. People like that make the life so much easier for those of us who play to win.
Succubus is terrible, because she's so inefficient. Sure, you gain tempo up front, but you lose tempo due to playing her since you have to lifetap sooner. She can work out, but I'd rather run Miillhouse Manastorm, as terrible as he is. There's a chance the only spell he has in his hand is Innervate, right?
I wonder about that. The deck I'm currently experimenting with (that runs two succubi and a pit lord, oh my) is actually 17-1 and wins respectably quickly. Not as fast as zoo can sure, but it's still clocking in just around 10 turns, usually around turn 8/9 is the win.
Edit: For those wondering why I'm attempting to run these bad cards think of it this way:
-Leaving a gold mine surrounded by other people and trying to find a diamond mine all to yourself.
I can easily name two reasons why Succubus is bad: Soulfire, Doomguard
Soulfire has the same drawback (but is a spell) and Doomguard comes in much, much later.
But you probably don't want to play Succubus with one of those in hand, unless you sacrificed 10 virgins and a kitten to RNGesus before match. Which is kinda uneffective, I mean, where would you get so many kittens? More seriously, it doesn't have instant impact unlike those 2 cards. Also, even more discard is definitely not what warlock decks need.
But you probably don't want to play Succubus with one of those in hand, unless you sacrificed 10 virgins and a kitten to RNGesus before match. Which is kinda uneffective, I mean, where would you get so much kittens? More seriously, it doesn't have instant impact unlike those 2 cards. Also, even more discard is definitely not what warlock decks need.
(note to self): buy kitten
Jesus is love. Love is sacrifice.
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If you see a post that you find objectionable, report it, it helps keep the forum clean. But be aware people are allowed a lot of latitude.
If you find my posts to be rude, objectionable, or whatever, well, I got tired of writing polite TL; DR (Too Long, Didn't Read) posts at crybaby whiners. So now I just make it short and nasty.
If you find that funny, well and good. If you find that sad, that's even better.
Succubus is terrible, because she's so inefficient. Sure, you gain tempo up front, but you lose tempo due to playing her since you have to lifetap sooner. She can work out, but I'd rather run Miillhouse Manastorm, as terrible as he is. There's a chance the only spell he has in his hand is Innervate, right?
I wonder about that. The deck I'm currently experimenting with (that runs two succubi and a pit lord, oh my) is actually 17-1 and wins respectably quickly. Not as fast as zoo can sure, but it's still clocking in just around 10 turns, usually around turn 8/9 is the win.
Edit: For those wondering why I'm attempting to run these bad cards think of it this way:
-Leaving a gold mine surrounded by other people and trying to find a diamond mine all to yourself.
It is great that you are experimenting but Succubus can be killed by approximately 50% of the two drops in the game. Basically anything with three damage. The early four damage burst usually is not worth the card disadvantage. I also heavily question the 17-1 touted results. It amazes me the records some people post about the deck they are pushing. Also, 89.7% of statistics are made up.
Succubus is terrible, because she's so inefficient. Sure, you gain tempo up front, but you lose tempo due to playing her since you have to lifetap sooner. She can work out, but I'd rather run Miillhouse Manastorm, as terrible as he is. There's a chance the only spell he has in his hand is Innervate, right?
I wonder about that. The deck I'm currently experimenting with (that runs two succubi and a pit lord, oh my) is actually 17-1 and wins respectably quickly. Not as fast as zoo can sure, but it's still clocking in just around 10 turns, usually around turn 8/9 is the win.
Edit: For those wondering why I'm attempting to run these bad cards think of it this way:
-Leaving a gold mine surrounded by other people and trying to find a diamond mine all to yourself.
It is great that you are experimenting but Succubus can be killed by approximately 50% of the two drops in the game. Basically anything with three damage. The early four damage burst usually is not worth the card disadvantage. I also heavily question the 17-1 touted results. It amazes me the records some people post about the deck they are pushing. Also, 89.7% of statistics are made up.
Some people have a terribly low casual MMR. :/
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Unless explicitly stated, my posts are my opinion and mine only.
Succubus is terrible, because she's so inefficient. Sure, you gain tempo up front, but you lose tempo due to playing her since you have to lifetap sooner. She can work out, but I'd rather run Miillhouse Manastorm, as terrible as he is. There's a chance the only spell he has in his hand is Innervate, right?
I wonder about that. The deck I'm currently experimenting with (that runs two succubi and a pit lord, oh my) is actually 17-1 and wins respectably quickly. Not as fast as zoo can sure, but it's still clocking in just around 10 turns, usually around turn 8/9 is the win.
Edit: For those wondering why I'm attempting to run these bad cards think of it this way:
-Leaving a gold mine surrounded by other people and trying to find a diamond mine all to yourself.
It is great that you are experimenting but Succubus can be killed by approximately 50% of the two drops in the game. Basically anything with three damage. The early four damage burst usually is not worth the card disadvantage. I also heavily question the 17-1 touted results. It amazes me the records some people post about the deck they are pushing. Also, 89.7% of statistics are made up.
Some people have a terribly low casual MMR. :/
I don't play casual mode unless it's to show a deck, in which case I'll auto-concede against duplicate opponents for a better video overall. I mean, who wants to watch a video of a deck that plays against zoo-lock 3 times in a row? Edit: Except zoo-lock haters.
Succubus is terrible, because she's so inefficient. Sure, you gain tempo up front, but you lose tempo due to playing her since you have to lifetap sooner. She can work out, but I'd rather run Miillhouse Manastorm, as terrible as he is. There's a chance the only spell he has in his hand is Innervate, right?
I wonder about that. The deck I'm currently experimenting with (that runs two succubi and a pit lord, oh my) is actually 17-1 and wins respectably quickly. Not as fast as zoo can sure, but it's still clocking in just around 10 turns, usually around turn 8/9 is the win.
Edit: For those wondering why I'm attempting to run these bad cards think of it this way:
-Leaving a gold mine surrounded by other people and trying to find a diamond mine all to yourself.
It is great that you are experimenting but Succubus can be killed by approximately 50% of the two drops in the game. Basically anything with three damage. The early four damage burst usually is not worth the card disadvantage. I also heavily question the 17-1 touted results. It amazes me the records some people post about the deck they are pushing. Also, 89.7% of statistics are made up.
Some people have a terribly low casual MMR. :/
I don't play casual mode unless it's to show a deck, in which case I'll auto-concede against duplicate opponents for a better video overall. I mean, who wants to watch a video of a deck that plays against zoo-lock 3 times in a row?
You're disqualifying your own video. Decks never have perfect matchups, it's always 60/40 or 20/80 or something like that. I want to see multiple against the same deck.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Unless explicitly stated, my posts are my opinion and mine only.
Succubus is terrible, because she's so inefficient. Sure, you gain tempo up front, but you lose tempo due to playing her since you have to lifetap sooner. She can work out, but I'd rather run Miillhouse Manastorm, as terrible as he is. There's a chance the only spell he has in his hand is Innervate, right?
I wonder about that. The deck I'm currently experimenting with (that runs two succubi and a pit lord, oh my) is actually 17-1 and wins respectably quickly. Not as fast as zoo can sure, but it's still clocking in just around 10 turns, usually around turn 8/9 is the win.
Edit: For those wondering why I'm attempting to run these bad cards think of it this way:
-Leaving a gold mine surrounded by other people and trying to find a diamond mine all to yourself.
It is great that you are experimenting but Succubus can be killed by approximately 50% of the two drops in the game. Basically anything with three damage. The early four damage burst usually is not worth the card disadvantage. I also heavily question the 17-1 touted results. It amazes me the records some people post about the deck they are pushing. Also, 89.7% of statistics are made up.
Some people have a terribly low casual MMR. :/
I don't play casual mode unless it's to show a deck, in which case I'll auto-concede against duplicate opponents for a better video overall. I mean, who wants to watch a video of a deck that plays against zoo-lock 3 times in a row?
You're disqualifying your own video. Decks never have perfect matchups, it's always 60/40 or 20/80 or something like that. I want to see multiple against the same deck.
And I don't want to make a video that's a few hours long. That's what Hearthstats are for and tools like it; to back up videos and such.
Videos showing off decks are typically to show off how they work and how well they work at what they do.
If I wanted a 'super long' video of me playing a deck nonstop in ranked I'd just livestream and upload the whole stream to YouTube. That'd be easier than actually going through and editing all that by myself. Edit: Oh yea, and good luck finding an audience of people who are willing to sit for an hour or more on a single YouTube video from some guy they've never even heard of playing a video game.
Plays badly with other discard. If you have a succubus in hand and draw another discard, you've basically just skipped your draw, which really cuts your options. The ability to save your cards for when you really need them and choose which card you want to play is all about hand-size, Succubus just throws all of that away for a small early advantage. If you took out soulfire and ran shadowbolt instead maybe you could mitigate this but then you're cutting a really great card to play a bad card.
Dies to 3 attack, or even 2 + hero power. Certain numbers just prove themselves to be bad. Kirin Tor Mage justifies itself with a tempo boost and can be supported by a 2-drop, but most of the 3-mana creatures trade with 2-drops, and that's all that succubus is, really - a 1-mana discount liability.
The only saving grace is that she only discards one card. If you're on coin you only discard one of your other starting cards [so be aware of this when you mulligan, succubus + coin, don't keep anything you don't want to lose besides] , and you will get to hit for 4 at least once, and they will most likely use up a 2 drop to kill her off. So you do 4 face, and take one of their minions, but lose one card. for 2 mana. It doesn't seem too bad when you think about it. I have the golden ones, but don't include them in my warlock deck atm. I might give her another go.
For those unfamiliar with the card this is it: Succubus.
Oh the potential. I'm currently in the middle of testing an experimental warlock deck and this card can only be described as life-ruining.
Here's a list of reasons why the Succubus card is the greatest thing ever:
-She makes sure priests stay in obscurity by whipping them into the ground before they even get rolling.
-The only viable response to coining her out on turn one is a Fiery War Axe from a warrior (which is currently under-represented in the meta) or if you just so happen to be playing against a warlock that just so happens to have their own turn 1 Flame Imp. Oh yea, and druids can wrath her; if they have it (if they don't tho - MMM; the salt is so tasty.).
-No 1 drop (except Flame Imp) in the game can kill the Succubus by themselves, which means tempo gain.
-Her golden animation is simple but quite impressive.
-She's the strongest one/two turn drop in the game (rightfully so, considering the drawback).
-The tempo gain tho.
-"Warlocks have it pretty good.", enough said.
Now to be real for a little bit; here's what I see the succubus card as. You're essentially playing soul fire as a minion without charge(for 2 mana), and you're banking on the fact that the succubus will do more than a soul fire (maybe even 2 soul fires, if not more) could. On top of the fact it's a very good minion that competes with 3 and 4 drops in terms of raw stats; so more often than not she's doing nice chunks of damage and taking down at least 2 of the opponent's cards with her. All of which has an extremely high potential of happening if you just bite the bullet and play her as soon as you can. Especially if in opening hand.
I probably should just label succubus as a "High risk, high reward" card; which epitomizes it (along with some other warlock cards) very well; assuming varying amount of risk vs reward.
I would say that the card is underappreciated, but not necessarily good. druids have a slightly better play with coin + Innervate into yeti, though innervate is a very specific discard, so to speak.
it has some potential in the opening hand as an early tempo lead but late game you start rolling the dice on accidentally discarding win conditions
I can easily name two reasons why Succubus is bad: Soulfire, Doomguard
I'm so glad there is prejudice against playing hunter/zoo/[insert FotM deck here]. People like that make the life so much easier for those of us who play to win.
Soulfire has the same drawback (but is a spell) and Doomguard comes in much, much later.
Succubus is terrible, because she's so inefficient. Sure, you gain tempo up front, but you lose tempo due to playing her since you have to lifetap sooner. She can work out, but I'd rather run Miillhouse Manastorm, as terrible as he is. There's a chance the only spell he has in his hand is Innervate, right?
Unless explicitly stated, my posts are my opinion and mine only.
My point is that Soulfire and Doomguard are both much stronger, so you pretty much have to run them. The problem is that discard effects interfere with each other, because they reduce the chance you can play them with an empty hand. Essentially they get much worse in multiples, and Succubus is the worst one, so it gets the cut.
I'm so glad there is prejudice against playing hunter/zoo/[insert FotM deck here]. People like that make the life so much easier for those of us who play to win.
I wonder about that. The deck I'm currently experimenting with (that runs two succubi and a pit lord, oh my) is actually 17-1 and wins respectably quickly. Not as fast as zoo can sure, but it's still clocking in just around 10 turns, usually around turn 8/9 is the win.
Edit: For those wondering why I'm attempting to run these bad cards think of it this way:
-Leaving a gold mine surrounded by other people and trying to find a diamond mine all to yourself.
But you probably don't want to play Succubus with one of those in hand, unless you sacrificed 10 virgins and a kitten to RNGesus before match. Which is kinda uneffective, I mean, where would you get so many kittens? More seriously, it doesn't have instant impact unlike those 2 cards. Also, even more discard is definitely not what warlock decks need.
(note to self): buy kitten
Jesus is love. Love is sacrifice.
If you see a post that you find objectionable, report it, it helps keep the forum clean. But be aware people are allowed a lot of latitude.
If you find my posts to be rude, objectionable, or whatever, well, I got tired of writing polite TL; DR (Too Long, Didn't Read) posts at crybaby whiners. So now I just make it short and nasty.
If you find that funny, well and good. If you find that sad, that's even better.
It is great that you are experimenting but Succubus can be killed by approximately 50% of the two drops in the game. Basically anything with three damage. The early four damage burst usually is not worth the card disadvantage. I also heavily question the 17-1 touted results. It amazes me the records some people post about the deck they are pushing. Also, 89.7% of statistics are made up.
Some people have a terribly low casual MMR. :/
Unless explicitly stated, my posts are my opinion and mine only.
I don't play casual mode unless it's to show a deck, in which case I'll auto-concede against duplicate opponents for a better video overall. I mean, who wants to watch a video of a deck that plays against zoo-lock 3 times in a row?
Edit: Except zoo-lock haters.
You're disqualifying your own video. Decks never have perfect matchups, it's always 60/40 or 20/80 or something like that. I want to see multiple against the same deck.
Unless explicitly stated, my posts are my opinion and mine only.
And I don't want to make a video that's a few hours long. That's what Hearthstats are for and tools like it; to back up videos and such.
Videos showing off decks are typically to show off how they work and how well they work at what they do.
If I wanted a 'super long' video of me playing a deck nonstop in ranked I'd just livestream and upload the whole stream to YouTube. That'd be easier than actually going through and editing all that by myself.
Edit: Oh yea, and good luck finding an audience of people who are willing to sit for an hour or more on a single YouTube video from some guy they've never even heard of playing a video game.
As most classes I'm already trading my two drop for their two drop and 3/2's very happily trade with a Succubus, turning a 1 for 1 into a 2 for 1.
Plays badly with other discard. If you have a succubus in hand and draw another discard, you've basically just skipped your draw, which really cuts your options. The ability to save your cards for when you really need them and choose which card you want to play is all about hand-size, Succubus just throws all of that away for a small early advantage. If you took out soulfire and ran shadowbolt instead maybe you could mitigate this but then you're cutting a really great card to play a bad card.
Dies to 3 attack, or even 2 + hero power. Certain numbers just prove themselves to be bad. Kirin Tor Mage justifies itself with a tempo boost and can be supported by a 2-drop, but most of the 3-mana creatures trade with 2-drops, and that's all that succubus is, really - a 1-mana discount liability.
If Succubus was 3/4 it would actually be playable. But 3 health is so easily taken away that in most cases you're getting 2-1.
The only saving grace is that she only discards one card. If you're on coin you only discard one of your other starting cards [so be aware of this when you mulligan, succubus + coin, don't keep anything you don't want to lose besides] , and you will get to hit for 4 at least once, and they will most likely use up a 2 drop to kill her off. So you do 4 face, and take one of their minions, but lose one card. for 2 mana. It doesn't seem too bad when you think about it. I have the golden ones, but don't include them in my warlock deck atm. I might give her another go.
That's a bit of a wait ^^ meanwhile she's doing 4 damage per turn
The only point of damage that matters is the last point. I gladly trade health for board control or card advantage early.