Hearthpwn

Quote from Dynamo432 >>

You could make the same argument against the black knight if blizzard creates more taunt minions in the following expansion, hence all neutral minion effects that destroy other minions except kodo limit card design and therefore we should nerf them. The progress of a hearthstone game doesn't have to be a linear regression.

Just to clarify something, if bgh got its stats nerfed,  would you consider it to be balanced? It may not seem like black knight is powerful right now, but sometime there will be a ton of hate for it simply because people hate the idea of destroying a minion (not dealing damage)

Quote from maroon5five >>

Quote from Dynamo432 >>

You could make the same argument against the black knight if blizzard creates more taunt minions in the following expansion, hence all neutral minion effects that destroy other minions except kodo limit card design and therefore we should nerf them. The progress of a hearthstone game doesn't have to be a linear regression.

 How could you make the same argument against black knight? Black Knight's stats are proportioned correctly to its effect. We've actually discussed Black Knight if you want to read back a few pages. Black knight gives you the vanilla stats of a 4 drop for 6 mana which is a 2 mana deficit while BGH gives you the vanilla stats of a 2.5 mana minion for 3 mana while also having an effect that is currently more powerful in the meta (and that is unlikely to change in the future unless they start creating more cards like tirion and stop making good 7+ attack minions).

I don't think that BGH needs a nerf. If anything, he could do with some reduced stats, to punish the "tempo-bgh" plays. But destroying a minion with 7 or more attack is clearly a good battlecry, but I don't believe it's game breaking.

Also, for those people saying that the meta will soon be no minions with 7 attack or more, will people be running BGH? Probably not if there isn't going to be any targets for it, so people will start to take BGH out, cause a 3 mana 4/2 isn't that great. Then BGH isn't being played so people start playing big minions again. Then BGH comes back. It's pretty much a cycle (theoretically).

At the end of the day, BGH is a tech card that is pretty good in some cases, and not that great in othere. It's never game breaking. (IMO)

Quote from Xandxax >>

I don't think that BGH needs a nerf. If anything, he could do with some reduced stats, to punish the "tempo-bgh" plays. But destroying a minion with 7 or more attack is clearly a good battlecry, but I don't believe it's game breaking.

Also, for those people saying that the meta will soon be no minions with 7 attack or more, will people be running BGH? Probably not if there isn't going to be any targets for it, so people will start to take BGH out, cause a 3 mana 4/2 isn't that great. Then BGH isn't being played so people start playing big minions again. Then BGH comes back. It's pretty much a cycle (theoretically).

At the end of the day, BGH is a tech card that is pretty good in some cases, and not that great in othere. It's never game breaking. (IMO)

Quote from Dynamo432 >>

Just to clarify something, if bgh got its stats nerfed,  would you consider it to be balanced? It may not seem like black knight is powerful right now, but sometime there will be a ton of hate for it simply because people hate the idea of destroying a minion (not dealing damage)

Quote from Ace1a >>

BGH defenders, just like those defending Boom are full of excuses. No one plays black knight because he's too slow and taunts are easy to deal with, especially with a 2 mana owl. Another excuse is "just play a bunch of 7 attack minions" not gonna work when the meta is 85% aggro. The best way to counter BGH is to run an aggro deck yourself which most people do. BGH defenders like to pretend big minions are a problem, but it's aggro that's the real problem and BGH only makes the problem worse by making control decks more useless. My friend who plays renomage has cut out Boom because BGH is so broken OP and he doesn't want any BGH targets. I will be doing the same once Boom rotates out if BGH isn't nerfed. BGH defenders will pretend BGH is balanced when most decks no longer run 7 attack minions, completely missing the irony that it's BGH who forced that meta.

I think the effect of BGH is needed, but the tempo swing is to insane very often. There are many 7+ mana cards, that are very fun, like deathwing, nefarian or even gruul. Somehow, you need a way to counter them, but you shouldn't get punished that hard for playing those cards.

Maybe a discard mechanic on BGH would be cool, but doesnt fix the insane tempo win.

Such strong removal should be very class specific.

Kibbler is right when he says, some cards like molten or alextrasza should fade out with standard.

I should win the game automatically because I played a big minion. It isn't my fault everyone isn't as clever as me and doesn't load the deck with huge minions.  I deserve my win and BGH has to go.

Again: Change it to a 3/2 or a 2/2. That's enough. The effect IS necessary, simply because of Handlock.

@ace1a

Handlock-Defenders are too full of excuses why BGH needs a nerf. But Handlock is out of Control with the effect. Doesn't change the problem that the minion itself is as a 3 mana 4/2 too strong by itself. The effect does not need a nerf by itself.

Battlecry: Deal 5 Damage to a Minion with 7 or more attack

Even if BGH is a 2/2 it doesnt fix the problem. At 9 mana, you will still have 6(Sylvanas, Emperor..) mana left to play whatever you want, while you just completly destroyed the opponents turn. Thats insane. There is no neutral card in the game that is that punishing.

Well, Bgh Should be changed to kill only Minions with 8 Atack or More, At this moment cards like Velen is pretty much garbage because people can just bgh it, and since priest are losing alot when standart arrives, nerfing bgh that way would make some cards that already have 7 atack kind playable, and would still be a direct counter to the giants, so the same way people dont play black knight now because we dont have that many taunts, people would not play bgh unless handlock or a giant deck would be on the meta and could use that slot for a better tech for the meta, the stats the way it is is already on par with the cost , maybe make cost 4 and 4/3 to be like a kezan mystic, but changing the target range would nerf alot of cards that have 7 atack and make new archtypes for some classes, the main problem about bgh is u that u kill the enemy 7 drop for 3, while giants most of the times are cheap and killing a giant is not a game breaking that kill the priest velen for 3

Btw i think this change would fit like a glove on standart, but on wild would make dr boom even more powerfull, so if blizzard are thinking about making changes thinking in the both game states, the only way would also nerf boom that are the only 7 atack minion that are broken

Quote from henrysquire >>

The best way to nerf this card whilst maintaining its initial identity is simple: give it a 50% chance to miss the target.

Quote from erickgps >>

Well, Bgh Should be changed to kill only Minions with 8 Atack or More, At this moment cards like Velen is pretty much garbage because people can just bgh it, and since priest are losing alot when standart arrives, nerfing bgh that way would make some cards that already have 7 atack kind playable, and would still be a direct counter to the giants, so the same way people dont play black knight now because we dont have that many taunts, people would not play bgh unless handlock or a giant deck would be on the meta and could use that slot for a better tech for the meta, the stats the way it is is already on par with the cost , maybe make cost 4 and 4/3 to be like a kezan mystic, but changing the target range would nerf alot of cards that have 7 atack and make new archtypes for some classes, the main problem about bgh is u that u kill the enemy 7 drop for 3, while giants most of the times are cheap and killing a giant is not a game breaking that kill the priest velen for 3

Btw i think this change would fit like a glove on standart, but on wild would make dr boom even more powerfull, so if blizzard are thinking about making changes thinking in the both game states, the only way would also nerf boom that are the only 7 atack minion that are broken

Quote from MalakyEx >>

Quote from Ace1a >>

BGH defenders, just like those defending Boom are full of excuses. No one plays black knight because he's too slow and taunts are easy to deal with, especially with a 2 mana owl. Another excuse is "just play a bunch of 7 attack minions" not gonna work when the meta is 85% aggro. The best way to counter BGH is to run an aggro deck yourself which most people do. BGH defenders like to pretend big minions are a problem, but it's aggro that's the real problem and BGH only makes the problem worse by making control decks more useless. My friend who plays renomage has cut out Boom because BGH is so broken OP and he doesn't want any BGH targets. I will be doing the same once Boom rotates out if BGH isn't nerfed. BGH defenders will pretend BGH is balanced when most decks no longer run 7 attack minions, completely missing the irony that it's BGH who forced that meta.

The very fact that you need to label people "BGH Defenders" and attack them instead of their arguments tells a lot about the validity of your opinion.

Quote from ambershee >>

People don't avoid 7+ attack minions because of BGH, they avoid them because they're not suitable for their deck archetype or are just not that great. Plenty of decks still use one or two high attack minions that suit their deck (Molten Giant in Handlock, Alexstrasza in Freeze Mage, Mal'Ganis in Demonlock, Fel Reaver in certain aggro decks and Dr. Boom in every other deck.)

Without BGH, decks filled with cards like Fel Reaver, The Beast, Eerie Statue or Venture Co. Mercenary  will be more or less uncounterable by half of Hearthstone's classes (e.g. Druid, or to a lesser extent Rogue and Warlock) since their removals cost as much to play as these minions do; consistent pressure from high attack minions would be unstoppable without a removal that also offers some kind of tempo gain as you'd be stuck just trying to counter their minions each turn at best, but more likely not having enough removal to deal with it at all. Handlock will be having a field day.

Quote from bozzna >>

bgh is kinda needed for classes without hard removal, and i think the way he is right now is fine (maybe nerf his stats so it is worse to play him without his effect to make it a more risky card?)

A lot of classes/decks wouldnt be able to deal with a turn 4 sea giant vs zoo or something similiar without it. I wouldnt change anything about it

Quote from Jahzaa >>

I think the effect of BGH is needed, but the tempo swing is to insane very often. There are many 7+ mana cards, that are very fun, like deathwing, nefarian or even gruul. Somehow, you need a way to counter them, but you shouldn't get punished that hard for playing those cards.

Maybe a discard mechanic on BGH would be cool, but doesnt fix the insane tempo win.

Such strong removal should be very class specific.

Kibbler is right when he says, some cards like molten or alextrasza should fade out with standard.

Quote from Velerios >>

Again: Change it to a 3/2 or a 2/2. That's enough. The effect IS necessary, simply because of Handlock.

@ace1a

Handlock-Defenders are too full of excuses why BGH needs a nerf. But Handlock is out of Control with the effect. Doesn't change the problem that the minion itself is as a 3 mana 4/2 too strong by itself. The effect does not need a nerf by itself.

Quote from DrunkWithGun >>

Battlecry: Deal 5 Damage to a Minion with 7 or more attack

Quote from Jahzaa >>

Even if BGH is a 2/2 it doesnt fix the problem. At 9 mana, you will still have 6(Sylvanas, Emperor..) mana left to play whatever you want, while you just completly destroyed the opponents turn. Thats insane. There is no neutral card in the game that is that punishing.

Quote from Ace1a >>

 False, my friend plays reno mage and doesn't even run Boom because BGH is everywhere. Some other decks have begun cutting out Boom because he's the only 7 attack minion in their decks. BGH is so broken OP that even another broken OP card such as Boom isn't in 100% of decks because of BGH.

For some reason people people got it in their heads that a nerf to BGH has to mean a nerf to its effect, that's not true. Even though BGH's effect is extremely powerful I think there is a place in the game for him. I think he would be balanced if his stats and/or mana cost were to change to make him less desirable to play so that he sees play as a tech card and not an almost auto-include for any deck that plans for the games to last more than 6-7 turns.

Kezan Mystic is a great example of how a tech card should be. It's powerful, but its stats hold it back so that it is only played when mage is really good, or if you are running a class that has a whole lot of trouble dealing with secrets. The Black Knight is another great example as he only sees play when decks with huge taunts are popular (handlock, ramp druid, ect.). BGH needs his stats/mana cost changed so that he only sees play when there are a lot of big minions being played, not like now where most people run just one big minion yet people run BGH anyway because his stat draw back is so insignificant in most games.

Quote from Sagi007 >>

If im not mistaken the only reason BGH sees as much play as it deos now is because of DrBoom.

Boom is so good that practically every deck runs it. So BGH has a target in practically every deck. So it sees play. When Standard hits Boom will leave and folowing this logic BGH will leave aswell.

Quote from maroon5five >>

not like now where most people run just one big minion yet people run BGH anyway because his stat draw back is so insignificant in most games.

Quote from MalakyEx >>

Quote from maroon5five >>

not like now where most people run just one big minion yet people run BGH anyway because his stat draw back is so insignificant in most games.

People run BGH because that "big minion" is Dr.Boom, the most cancerous OP 7mana drop the game has. Again you're confusing cause and effect, it's because of Boom that BGH sees a lot of play, not because the card itself is OP.

BGH was just as popular before Dr. Boom

Also this is one big fat lie.