The drawback is that he's entirely situational and having him sitting in your hand doing nothing for eight turns when you draw him out in the initial hand sucks. For a 3 mana minion, his stats are not great and most popular 1 mana minions will trade with him. Other tech cards like Mind Control Tech are similarly weak-statted and just as situational.
Things like Mind Control Tech, Kezan Mystic, Spellbreaker, and Black Knight have as bad or worse stats for their mana cost than BGH, yet have less powerful effects. Of course BGH has a draw back, but the argument is the draw back isn't as big as it should be compared to its effect.
Err, Black Knight's effect is identical (destroy the minion) and it's stats are more favourable.
First, a 4/5 for 6 mana is not more favorable than a 3 mana 4/2 (that's an absolutely crazy assertion). Second, its effect destroys a taunt minion, and the average cost of taunt minions is much, much, much less than the average cost of the 7+ attack minions. Since the average minion that you would kill with Black Knight is much cheaper than the average minion that you can kill with BGH it stands to reason that BGH's effect is, on average, much more powerful.
You do realize that with this you're basically saying "It makes sense that the BGH Tech card has a more powerful effect!", right?
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When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
You do realize that with this you're basically saying "It makes sense that the BGH Tech card has a more powerful effect!", right?
Who is saying that? And what are you referring to when you say "It makes sense that BGH Tech card has a more powerful effect"? That comment makes absolutely no sense out of context.
The 'average cost' of the minion you target is irrelevant, because you're not going to be targeting a Target Dummy with the Black Knight. His stats are more favourable because whilst BGH gets removed by most popular 1 mana minions, there are very few commonly played minions that cost significantly less than the Black Knight that will trade with it 1:1 (basically only Goblin Blastmage).
BGH's stats are more favorable for a 3 mana minion than Black knight's stats are for a 6 mana minion, I have no idea how you would think otherwise unless you've never played the game. There are 4 and 5 mana cards that can kill Black Knight and survive, yet there is nothing that I know of that costs less than BGH that can kill him and survive without using an effect such as divine shield. If I had to choose between 2 minions for my deck that had no effect and one was a 3 mana 4/2 and the other is a 6 mana 4/5 then I would pick the 3 mana 4-2 for sure. Typically the decks that will trade do not run many 1 mana 2 atk minions, so the likelyhood that BGH only trades with a 1 mana minion is pretty low.
The average cost of the minion you target is absolutely relevant to the power of the effect. If you have a card that kills something with 2 attack or less (kodo), and let's say there was a 5 mana 3/5 kodo that destroyed minions of 3 atk or higher, then obviously one is more powerful. The effect that, on average, will remove the biggest minion is the more powerful effect.
The powerfulness of the effect and the amount of opportunities you have to use the ability both calculate into how much of a draw back a card should have for proper game balance (I used to work in card game balance and this is card balance 101).
You sure like arguing just for the sake of it. BGH is fine as it is.
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When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
You sure like arguing just for the sake of it. BGH is fine as it is.
It's not "just for the sake of it." BGH is unbalanced and I would like it changed. Things don't change if you keep things to yourself. The best thing I can do for my cause is to keep threads like this going and raise awareness for the problem.
I dont think BGH need to be nerfed, blizzard should nerf MC instead.
If BGH need to be nerf at all, it should reduce minions health to 1, so at least there is extra effort needed to do a final blow to kill the targeted minion.
I think it would be enough to change it to 8 attack instead of 7. He would kill the stupid giants - which usually didn't pay their mana bill, but not get honest guys like ratsam, Dr Boom...
This.... is just you joking, right.
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When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
The point is that they don't have no effect, they have different effects. Whilst BGH must target a minion with an attack of 7+, the Black Knight's stipulation is a minion with taunt. Apples and Oranges.
I was the one that said the effects were different, you were the one that said they were the same, or should I quote: "Err, Black Knight's effect is identical (destroy the minion) and it's stats are more favourable." Also, you are the one that started comparing what minions they could trade for, not me.
Their effects are not identical and BGH's stats are more favorable for its mana cost. You can argue against that all you want, but no argument you can make would change those facts. If you don't believe me about the stats feel free to ask around. Would you rather pay 3 mana for 2.5 mana worth of raw stats, or would you rather pay 6 mana for 4 mana worth of raw stats? I would much rather play a crappier ice rager in my deck than a yeti for 6 mana.
But the power of the compound calculation doesn't make for the same efficiency, so BGH is weaker than that and fine as it is now.
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When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
But the power of the compound calculation doesn't make for the same efficiency, so BGH is weaker than that and fine as it is now.
Weaker than what? It's effect is stronger than TBK and Kezan and Spellbreaker, and its stats are more favorable for its mana cost than they are. What is it weaker than?
But the power of the compound calculation doesn't make for the same efficiency, so BGH is weaker than that and fine as it is now.
Weaker than what? It's effect is stronger than TBK and Kezan and Spellbreaker, and its stats are more favorable for its mana cost than they are. What is it weaker than?
Weaker than the average conjunction between the pull of such a card and the preferrable target given a consistent tempo curve.
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When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
"If a minion has over 7 attack, deal damage to it equal to its Attack (or Mana Cost)." is the only sensible nerf I can see without destroying the card entirely or changing it altogether.
But the power of the compound calculation doesn't make for the same efficiency, so BGH is weaker than that and fine as it is now.
Weaker than what? It's effect is stronger than TBK and Kezan and Spellbreaker, and its stats are more favorable for its mana cost than they are. What is it weaker than?
Weaker than the average conjunction between the pull of such a card and the preferrable target given a consistent tempo curve.
I know that you want to sound smart, but as someone who has actually worked in card game balancing before I can honestly say that you have no idea what you are talking about. Until a company is willing to pay you money to hear your thoughts on upcoming releases you can forget about trying to jazz up your vocabulary.
But the power of the compound calculation doesn't make for the same efficiency, so BGH is weaker than that and fine as it is now.
Weaker than what? It's effect is stronger than TBK and Kezan and Spellbreaker, and its stats are more favorable for its mana cost than they are. What is it weaker than?
Weaker than the average conjunction between the pull of such a card and the preferrable target given a consistent tempo curve.
I know that you want to sound smart, but as someone who has actually worked in card game balancing before I can honestly say that you have no idea what you are talking about. Until a company is willing to pay you money to hear your thoughts on upcoming releases you can forget about trying to jazz up your vocabulary.
You have to remember that the constabulary of formal card introduction doesn't forbid for a powerful side-effect of curve tempo and synergetic values, even if beyond the indefinite stat allocation of a single card.
When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
But the power of the compound calculation doesn't make for the same efficiency, so BGH is weaker than that and fine as it is now.
Weaker than what? It's effect is stronger than TBK and Kezan and Spellbreaker, and its stats are more favorable for its mana cost than they are. What is it weaker than?
Weaker than the average conjunction between the pull of such a card and the preferrable target given a consistent tempo curve.
I know that you want to sound smart, but as someone who has actually worked in card game balancing before I can honestly say that you have no idea what you are talking about. Until a company is willing to pay you money to hear your thoughts on upcoming releases you can forget about trying to jazz up your vocabulary.
What he meant was that you can't reliably use BGH in a consistent tempo curve. The conditional probability of pulling out BGH multiplied by the probability of using his effect is much lower than the conditional probability of pulling out a class hard removal multiplied by the probability of effectively using that removal. it isn't hard to understand.
But the power of the compound calculation doesn't make for the same efficiency, so BGH is weaker than that and fine as it is now.
Weaker than what? It's effect is stronger than TBK and Kezan and Spellbreaker, and its stats are more favorable for its mana cost than they are. What is it weaker than?
Weaker than the average conjunction between the pull of such a card and the preferrable target given a consistent tempo curve.
I know that you want to sound smart, but as someone who has actually worked in card game balancing before I can honestly say that you have no idea what you are talking about. Until a company is willing to pay you money to hear your thoughts on upcoming releases you can forget about trying to jazz up your vocabulary.
What he meant was that you can't reliably use BGH in a consistent tempo curve. The conditional probability of pulling out BGH multiplied by the probability of using his effect is much lower than the conditional probability of pulling out a class hard removal multiplied by the probability of effectively using that removal. it isn't hard to understand.
That doesn't counter the fact that BGH's stats are better tempo for its mana cost than all of the other played tech cards in the game. It has better stats for its mana and has a more powerful effect, so either it is overpowered or the other tech cards are underpowered, but they are still played so I find that unlikely.
You could make the same argument against the black knight if blizzard creates more taunt minions in the following expansion, hence all neutral minion effects that destroy other minions except kodo limit card design and therefore we should nerf them. The progress of a hearthstone game doesn't have to be a linear regression.
BGH defenders, just like those defending Boom are full of excuses. No one plays black knight because he's too slow and taunts are easy to deal with, especially with a 2 mana owl. Another excuse is "just play a bunch of 7 attack minions" not gonna work when the meta is 85% aggro. The best way to counter BGH is to run an aggro deck yourself which most people do. BGH defenders like to pretend big minions are a problem, but it's aggro that's the real problem and BGH only makes the problem worse by making control decks more useless. My friend who plays renomage has cut out Boom because BGH is so broken OP and he doesn't want any BGH targets. I will be doing the same once Boom rotates out if BGH isn't nerfed. BGH defenders will pretend BGH is balanced when most decks no longer run 7 attack minions, completely missing the irony that it's BGH who forced that meta.
Guys !!!! Really !!!!! 14 pages of post on this ?!?!?!?!?!? Let it go. Get over it !!!! Gezz !!!!!
"The world outside is so big, but it's safe in my domain
Because to you I'm just a number and a clever screen name..."
I THINK FOR MYSELF, THEREFORE.... I'M AN ATHEIST !!!
You do realize that with this you're basically saying "It makes sense that the BGH Tech card has a more powerful effect!", right?
When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
You sure like arguing just for the sake of it. BGH is fine as it is.
When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
I dont think BGH need to be nerfed, blizzard should nerf MC instead.
If BGH need to be nerf at all, it should reduce minions health to 1, so at least there is extra effort needed to do a final blow to kill the targeted minion.
When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
But the power of the compound calculation doesn't make for the same efficiency, so BGH is weaker than that and fine as it is now.
When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
"If a minion has over 7 attack, deal damage to it equal to its Attack (or Mana Cost)." is the only sensible nerf I can see without destroying the card entirely or changing it altogether.
When you dump something down the toilet it disappears while still existing in the sewers. Welcome to Wild mode, "it's not like they took our cards away".
You could make the same argument against the black knight if blizzard creates more taunt minions in the following expansion, hence all neutral minion effects that destroy other minions except kodo limit card design and therefore we should nerf them. The progress of a hearthstone game doesn't have to be a linear regression.
BGH defenders, just like those defending Boom are full of excuses. No one plays black knight because he's too slow and taunts are easy to deal with, especially with a 2 mana owl. Another excuse is "just play a bunch of 7 attack minions" not gonna work when the meta is 85% aggro. The best way to counter BGH is to run an aggro deck yourself which most people do. BGH defenders like to pretend big minions are a problem, but it's aggro that's the real problem and BGH only makes the problem worse by making control decks more useless. My friend who plays renomage has cut out Boom because BGH is so broken OP and he doesn't want any BGH targets. I will be doing the same once Boom rotates out if BGH isn't nerfed. BGH defenders will pretend BGH is balanced when most decks no longer run 7 attack minions, completely missing the irony that it's BGH who forced that meta.