I'm sure the nerfs helped, but not enough it was going to be stale.
But the introduction of ETC really mixed things up and wild is packed with variety and there does not seem to be a Tier 0 deck.
I see a wide mix of classes, most of them have a few viable archetypes. And somehow Pirate Rogue and Secret Mage are not oppressive.
I've been playing Shudderwock Shaman with Togwaggle in ETC in some previously unwinnable matchups, I can sometimes Togwaggle into Sir Finley and get a ton of Quest Mage cards or 1 cost Druid cards or Control Priest cards and it ruins the few combo decks out there.
E.T.C has been a great game changer in general. I've been throwing him into Even decks for the use of odd cards lately. Really allows for some unique deck building.
I love, that I can put tech cards to the Band and use ETC situationally just to counter the most common decks (cards are usually Eater of Secrets, Skulking Geist and third based on the rank I atm am at)
I haven't played many other card games, but when I was in middle school I played Dragon Ball Z collectible card game and they had a 'Sensei Deck' which was a side deck of varying sizes you could used to substitute cards deck at the beginning of the game once you saw your opponents deck type and hero (in that game you randomly discarded cards and put the new ones in) feels very much like that to me, I've heard others say other card games have had things like this.
I think it is a great mechanic too, feels good and effective and strong, but not overly so. I love how once the card has been discovered from 'the band' it can't be discovered again (I tried to go infinite with Zola in there my first game lol) I think they knocked it outta the park.
OP: interesting choice on Togwaggle, I'll have to remember that. Btw - I really don't like Shuddershaman rn lol
but mage Skip a turn Quest makes etc dumb... Just my opinion...
you can play the New mage legendary That plays All cards That wasnt originally in your Deck.
nów Imagine playing the 4 mana Portion That plays your minion back and cost 1 mana. etc also allows brocken Stuff like That.
When I queue into a quest mage, I almost pee my pants with glee.
A single Dirty Rat, Mutanus or a well timed Loetheb ends the game.
Yes, they occasionally win, but if I make them play the combo as punishment, while they spend those 10 minutes doing te combo, I watch a YouTube video and laugh.
Like Dr. Strange vs. Nostrilsdormu, I forced the Quest Mage as my prisoner to waste 10 minutes while I watch some funny videos.
Eh I dunno, all it did was make tech cards even more powerful, and if you're not playing an aggro deck you're spamming every disruption card that you can put in your deck anyway because they're rather broken in wild. There aren't any control decks that exist that don't have 2x rat, mutanus, theotar or loatheb in them. ETC on top allows you to play situational tech cards that outright make some decks irrelevant, condensed into one card so your deck isn't as shit.
An example is skulking geist - mediocre for a deck slot, but now you automatically win against all jade druids while having access to a swiss army knife of other hyper specific disruption cards that automatically win the game against other archetypes. Printing more and more cards like these that don't let your opponent play the game is going to become more and more toxic as expansions go by because we're just gonna end up with half the deck being "fuck with your opponent", and it's really not fun on the receiving end.
Eh I dunno, all it did was make tech cards even more powerful, and if you're not playing an aggro deck you're spamming every disruption card that you can put in your deck anyway because they're rather broken in wild. There aren't any control decks that exist that don't have 2x rat, mutanus, theotar or loatheb in them. ETC on top allows you to play situational tech cards that outright make some decks irrelevant, condensed into one card so your deck isn't as shit.
An example is skulking geist - mediocre for a deck slot, but now you automatically win against all jade druids while having access to a swiss army knife of other hyper specific disruption cards that automatically win the game against other archetypes. Printing more and more cards like these that don't let your opponent play the game is going to become more and more toxic as expansions go by because we're just gonna end up with half the deck being "fuck with your opponent", and it's really not fun on the receiving end.
There is a lot of merit in what you say about samey tech cards in all control decks.
I was playing legend 775 in march, haven't seen more than 5 E.T.C.s. IMHO this card enables more combo-tech-shit where you sit there and watch your opponent playing 15 cards, 20 spells, etc ...Wild is full of weird OTK combo decks played by opponents who do nothing till they got all the cards for their crazy tech-combo. I am tired of playing against the same combos over and over again. There are too many meme decks. Legendary was once meant to be a unique card. Nowadays you can play the very speacial game changing card over and over again. Imagine playing chess vs. an opponent who cheats a 2nd, 3rd king on the board or who is allowed to make 3-4-5 turns in a row.
I am playing since beta, but the game has never been worse than these days. And I don't believe that it will get better with the new expansion. I fear it will get worse.
Quote from Xssx>> There are too many meme decks. Legendary was once meant to be a unique card. Nowadays you can play the very speacial game changing card over and over again. Imagine playing chess vs. an opponent who cheats a 2nd, 3rd king on the board or who is allowed to make 3-4-5 turns in a row.
I am playing since beta, but the game has never been worse than these days. And I don't believe that it will get better with the new expansion. I fear it will get worse.
Wow, apparently you have playing Hearthstone in an alternate universe.
Rogue has had Shadowstep play the game minion over and over again since forever.
Youthful Brewmaster and even Ancient Brewmaster have been cards since forever.
Annoying forms of Resurrect Priest for ages, minions like N'Zoth and stuff like Bloodreaver Guildan.
Why is that "I've been playing since beta" is always followed by something stupid that means you really have not consistently played this game in ages?
Why not be honest and say you play off and on and sort of pay attention but mostly don't?
Instead of being surprised by cards like Shadowstep exist? It is just annoying.
An example is skulking geist - mediocre for a deck slot, but now you automatically win against all jade druids while having access to a swiss army knife of other hyper specific disruption cards that automatically win the game against other archetypes. Printing more and more cards like these that don't let your opponent play the game is going to become more and more toxic as expansions go by because we're just gonna end up with half the deck being "fuck with your opponent", and it's really not fun on the receiving end.
No, no, no. Hand disruption (and other tech cards) don't allow the opponent to play solitaire. Modify your combo decks to be more robust against hand disruption, add secondary win conditions, adapt.
An example is skulking geist - mediocre for a deck slot, but now you automatically win against all jade druids while having access to a swiss army knife of other hyper specific disruption cards that automatically win the game against other archetypes. Printing more and more cards like these that don't let your opponent play the game is going to become more and more toxic as expansions go by because we're just gonna end up with half the deck being "fuck with your opponent", and it's really not fun on the receiving end.
No, no, no. Hand disruption (and other tech cards) don't allow the opponent to play solitaire. Modify your combo decks to be more robust against hand disruption, add secondary win conditions, adapt.
So just apply pressure and kill opponents while they play solitaire? Combo decks have always existed to keep control decks in check, but now it's the complete reverse - combo decks can never win against disruption spam. Additionally, disruption cards are THE BEST cards in control mirrors too, because you just keep removing key gameplan cards. You're telling me to add more win conditions to a combo deck against control decks which have a third of their cards be disruption. Just how many win conditions am I supposed to put in my deck until I can get one to work and not get fucked over? Combo decks are garbage now, and will continue to be the more we can stockpile these always-good disruption cards.
You simply have to adjust your deck according to the meta. If you’re copy-pasting a net deck without making changes that are relevant to what the opponents that you are matching then you are not playing to the meta.
ETC can be used to enable combos too- think Jade Idol stored for after your opponent drops their killer Skulking Geist. Combo back on!
The natural evolution of the game needs to be accounted for- Agro becomes faster and more resourced, control has more combo disruption, tempo is almost as fast as agro and combo has more ways to enable the end state.
I play a lot of combo and admit the frustration with having my wincon yoinked from me by auto includes such as Mutanus and Theotar is painful. The nature of the deck is high risk, high reward.
I hate the cliche expression but it is somewhat true: ‘wild is exactly that: wild’.
But these days every class has this ability, which was once rogue and priest exclusive - except brewmasters. And there are many other ways to replay minions over and over again. This together with mana cheating leads to absurde gameplay which is as worse as in duels.
Hearthstone is more abusing than skill. Luck, randomness, mana cheating and abusing mechanics like battlecry (see the latest annoying shutterfvck spam, which will get worse with the expansion) lead to success - no skill needed, just neckdecking copy & paste meme decks.
I will always stand for Skulking geist in ETC because fuck jade druids. Oherwise they win any control match-up by making you draw 5 cards every turn. Without a counter. So fun and interactive. Now I can win somehow.
Also, if you are a jade druid and don't like that, well 1) Serves you well. 2) Put your own ETC with jade idol into your deck. 3) Don't get queued against me.
An example is skulking geist - mediocre for a deck slot, but now you automatically win against all jade druids while having access to a swiss army knife of other hyper specific disruption cards that automatically win the game against other archetypes. Printing more and more cards like these that don't let your opponent play the game is going to become more and more toxic as expansions go by because we're just gonna end up with half the deck being "fuck with your opponent", and it's really not fun on the receiving end.
No, no, no. Hand disruption (and other tech cards) don't allow the opponent to play solitaire. Modify your combo decks to be more robust against hand disruption, add secondary win conditions, adapt.
So just apply pressure and kill opponents while they play solitaire? Combo decks have always existed to keep control decks in check, but now it's the complete reverse - combo decks can never win against disruption spam. Additionally, disruption cards are THE BEST cards in control mirrors too, because you just keep removing key gameplan cards. You're telling me to add more win conditions to a combo deck against control decks which have a third of their cards be disruption. Just how many win conditions am I supposed to put in my deck until I can get one to work and not get fucked over? Combo decks are garbage now, and will continue to be the more we can stockpile these always-good disruption cards.
Combo deck doesn't equal a solitaire deck. Every solitaire deck is a combo deck, not every combo deck is a solitaire deck.
Yes, Combo is good for a healthy metagame. Combo not caring about opponents is bad. You have a minion-based combo and many opponents are playing 2x rats + Mutanus? Perhaps it is time to replace your spell-based draw with a less efficient minion-based draw to have those pulled away? Or fight fire with fire and respond with your own hand disruption? Or have more combo pieces then necessary\back up combo... those will make your deck worse? Well, tough luck, when other decks place tech cards or adapt to a meta in another way they also become worse.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
ETC made Wild far better.
I'm sure the nerfs helped, but not enough it was going to be stale.
But the introduction of ETC really mixed things up and wild is packed with variety and there does not seem to be a Tier 0 deck.
I see a wide mix of classes, most of them have a few viable archetypes. And somehow Pirate Rogue and Secret Mage are not oppressive.
I've been playing Shudderwock Shaman with Togwaggle in ETC in some previously unwinnable matchups, I can sometimes Togwaggle into Sir Finley and get a ton of Quest Mage cards or 1 cost Druid cards or Control Priest cards and it ruins the few combo decks out there.
ETC is best thing since Renethal to me.
E.T.C has been a great game changer in general. I've been throwing him into Even decks for the use of odd cards lately. Really allows for some unique deck building.
I love, that I can put tech cards to the Band and use ETC situationally just to counter the most common decks (cards are usually Eater of Secrets, Skulking Geist and third based on the rank I atm am at)
but mage Skip a turn Quest makes etc dumb... Just my opinion...
you can play the New mage legendary That plays All cards That wasnt originally in your Deck.
nów Imagine playing the 4 mana Portion That plays your minion back and cost 1 mana. etc also allows brocken Stuff like That.
I haven't played many other card games, but when I was in middle school I played Dragon Ball Z collectible card game and they had a 'Sensei Deck' which was a side deck of varying sizes you could used to substitute cards deck at the beginning of the game once you saw your opponents deck type and hero (in that game you randomly discarded cards and put the new ones in) feels very much like that to me, I've heard others say other card games have had things like this.
I think it is a great mechanic too, feels good and effective and strong, but not overly so. I love how once the card has been discovered from 'the band' it can't be discovered again (I tried to go infinite with Zola in there my first game lol) I think they knocked it outta the park.
OP: interesting choice on Togwaggle, I'll have to remember that. Btw - I really don't like Shuddershaman rn lol
When I queue into a quest mage, I almost pee my pants with glee.
A single Dirty Rat, Mutanus or a well timed Loetheb ends the game.
Yes, they occasionally win, but if I make them play the combo as punishment, while they spend those 10 minutes doing te combo, I watch a YouTube video and laugh.
Like Dr. Strange vs. Nostrilsdormu, I forced the Quest Mage as my prisoner to waste 10 minutes while I watch some funny videos.
Eh I dunno, all it did was make tech cards even more powerful, and if you're not playing an aggro deck you're spamming every disruption card that you can put in your deck anyway because they're rather broken in wild. There aren't any control decks that exist that don't have 2x rat, mutanus, theotar or loatheb in them. ETC on top allows you to play situational tech cards that outright make some decks irrelevant, condensed into one card so your deck isn't as shit.
An example is skulking geist - mediocre for a deck slot, but now you automatically win against all jade druids while having access to a swiss army knife of other hyper specific disruption cards that automatically win the game against other archetypes. Printing more and more cards like these that don't let your opponent play the game is going to become more and more toxic as expansions go by because we're just gonna end up with half the deck being "fuck with your opponent", and it's really not fun on the receiving end.
There is a lot of merit in what you say about samey tech cards in all control decks.
Shudderwock wankers - you are the worst thing that happen to wild since questline warlock.
I was playing legend 775 in march, haven't seen more than 5 E.T.C.s.
IMHO this card enables more combo-tech-shit where you sit there and watch your opponent playing 15 cards, 20 spells, etc ...Wild is full of weird OTK combo decks played by opponents who do nothing till they got all the cards for their crazy tech-combo.
I am tired of playing against the same combos over and over again.
There are too many meme decks. Legendary was once meant to be a unique card. Nowadays you can play the very speacial game changing card over and over again.
Imagine playing chess vs. an opponent who cheats a 2nd, 3rd king on the board or who is allowed to make 3-4-5 turns in a row.
I am playing since beta, but the game has never been worse than these days. And I don't believe that it will get better with the new expansion. I fear it will get worse.
Wow, apparently you have playing Hearthstone in an alternate universe.
Rogue has had Shadowstep play the game minion over and over again since forever.
Youthful Brewmaster and even Ancient Brewmaster have been cards since forever.
Annoying forms of Resurrect Priest for ages, minions like N'Zoth and stuff like Bloodreaver Guildan.
Why is that "I've been playing since beta" is always followed by something stupid that means you really have not consistently played this game in ages?
Why not be honest and say you play off and on and sort of pay attention but mostly don't?
Instead of being surprised by cards like Shadowstep exist? It is just annoying.
No, no, no. Hand disruption (and other tech cards) don't allow the opponent to play solitaire. Modify your combo decks to be more robust against hand disruption, add secondary win conditions, adapt.
So just apply pressure and kill opponents while they play solitaire? Combo decks have always existed to keep control decks in check, but now it's the complete reverse - combo decks can never win against disruption spam. Additionally, disruption cards are THE BEST cards in control mirrors too, because you just keep removing key gameplan cards. You're telling me to add more win conditions to a combo deck against control decks which have a third of their cards be disruption. Just how many win conditions am I supposed to put in my deck until I can get one to work and not get fucked over? Combo decks are garbage now, and will continue to be the more we can stockpile these always-good disruption cards.
You simply have to adjust your deck according to the meta. If you’re copy-pasting a net deck without making changes that are relevant to what the opponents that you are matching then you are not playing to the meta.
ETC can be used to enable combos too- think Jade Idol stored for after your opponent drops their killer Skulking Geist. Combo back on!
The natural evolution of the game needs to be accounted for- Agro becomes faster and more resourced, control has more combo disruption, tempo is almost as fast as agro and combo has more ways to enable the end state.
I play a lot of combo and admit the frustration with having my wincon yoinked from me by auto includes such as Mutanus and Theotar is painful. The nature of the deck is high risk, high reward.
I hate the cliche expression but it is somewhat true: ‘wild is exactly that: wild’.
But these days every class has this ability, which was once rogue and priest exclusive - except brewmasters. And there are many other ways to replay minions over and over again. This together with mana cheating leads to absurde gameplay which is as worse as in duels.
Hearthstone is more abusing than skill. Luck, randomness, mana cheating and abusing mechanics like battlecry (see the latest annoying shutterfvck spam, which will get worse with the expansion) lead to success - no skill needed, just neckdecking copy & paste meme decks.
I will always stand for Skulking geist in ETC because fuck jade druids. Oherwise they win any control match-up by making you draw 5 cards every turn. Without a counter. So fun and interactive. Now I can win somehow.
Also, if you are a jade druid and don't like that, well
1) Serves you well.
2) Put your own ETC with jade idol into your deck.
3) Don't get queued against me.
Combo deck doesn't equal a solitaire deck. Every solitaire deck is a combo deck, not every combo deck is a solitaire deck.
Yes, Combo is good for a healthy metagame. Combo not caring about opponents is bad. You have a minion-based combo and many opponents are playing 2x rats + Mutanus? Perhaps it is time to replace your spell-based draw with a less efficient minion-based draw to have those pulled away? Or fight fire with fire and respond with your own hand disruption? Or have more combo pieces then necessary\back up combo... those will make your deck worse? Well, tough luck, when other decks place tech cards or adapt to a meta in another way they also become worse.