Hearthpwn

if you guys want a REALLY good deck vs questlock check this deck I made : https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1396108-anti-warlock-pure-kingsbane

Play inner fire priest and you are gonna win against 100% of questline warlocks

Quote from Suikiele >>

After getting legend in Wild last month, and playing through the ranks again this month, I think it really comes down to this: The final quest reward cards for Warlock, Hunter and Warrior should be 7 mana for a 7/7 permanent effect card, not 5. I don't see it much in wild, but I think the same applies for the Mage final quest reward: Make that thing 7 mana. And I'm very tempted to add Shaman to this list, as I'm certain the vacuum would mean they would float to the top (more than they already are). A two mana cost would slow things down enough that actual decisions made each turn would matter more.

Druid, Priest and Rogue get a pass, as they aren't "for the rest of the game" plays, and involve more opponent interaction.

Paladin and Demon Hunter I'm on the fence about. Paladin is still top dog and doesn't even run the quest, so they would likely need some handbuff nerfing (for instance, make Alliance Bannerman draw a card, not specifically a minion)

Edit: A few more games in, and I'm struck by the absurdity the text being "Take X damage" instead of "Lose X health", and this problem becomes more and more apparent when armor stacking comes into play. A self-sacrifice playstyle shouldn't be able to armor their way to a point where they aren't actually losing any health at all. At least the Flesh Giants text required your Health to change, a fact most people seem to overlook.

 Lmao@ "warrior reward should be at 7 mana" warrior quest reward is the most balanced reward they put out, it doesn't need a change at all

Quote from SinAscendant >>

Quote from Suikiele >>

After getting legend in Wild last month, and playing through the ranks again this month, I think it really comes down to this: The final quest reward cards for Warlock, Hunter and Warrior should be 7 mana for a 7/7 permanent effect card, not 5. I don't see it much in wild, but I think the same applies for the Mage final quest reward: Make that thing 7 mana. And I'm very tempted to add Shaman to this list, as I'm certain the vacuum would mean they would float to the top (more than they already are). A two mana cost would slow things down enough that actual decisions made each turn would matter more.

Druid, Priest and Rogue get a pass, as they aren't "for the rest of the game" plays, and involve more opponent interaction.

Paladin and Demon Hunter I'm on the fence about. Paladin is still top dog and doesn't even run the quest, so they would likely need some handbuff nerfing (for instance, make Alliance Bannerman draw a card, not specifically a minion)

Edit: A few more games in, and I'm struck by the absurdity the text being "Take X damage" instead of "Lose X health", and this problem becomes more and more apparent when armor stacking comes into play. A self-sacrifice playstyle shouldn't be able to armor their way to a point where they aren't actually losing any health at all. At least the Flesh Giants text required your Health to change, a fact most people seem to overlook.

 Lmao@ "warrior reward should be at 7 mana" warrior quest reward is the most balanced reward they put out, it doesn't need a change at all

 In Wild, there's a reason Warrior is tied in 2nd place (with hunter) behind Warlock. If you just neutralize Warlock, Hunter and Warrior will be all that remain, unless Control decks somehow come back into the scope. The only fair thing I can imagine, without the testing data Blizzard has available, is to hit all three at the same time equally. Unless you want a Warrior dominated meta in Wild forever, in which case, we are not on the same page.

Well the only hope for this whole mess is for Demon Seed to be the warlock card getting banned in wild. Otherwise expect the deck to be the only one you run into in either format for the foreseeable future. 

Quote from LordCheesus >>

Well the only hope for this whole mess is for Demon Seed to be the warlock card getting banned in wild. Otherwise expect the deck to be the only one you run into in either format for the foreseeable future. 

 Crystallizer could be a decent hit, too. Might be just enough to slow it down, though I doubt it.

Quote from fusilli >>

Quote from LordCheesus >>

Well the only hope for this whole mess is for Demon Seed to be the warlock card getting banned in wild. Otherwise expect the deck to be the only one you run into in either format for the foreseeable future. 

 Crystallizer could be a decent hit, too. Might be just enough to slow it down, though I doubt it.

 As I posted in the balance patch speculation article (and got downvoted to hell for my opinion), Crystallizer jumps out at me as the main culprit in Wild.

The Demon Seed isn't nearly as much as a problem in Standard, so you have to look at which Wild cards are pushing it over the edge, and Crystallizer seems to be the biggest problem. (Expired Merchant is a close second because of its interaction with Hand of Gul'dan and the pretty much guaranteed "kill your opponent with your own fatigue")

The problem with banning Crystallizer is that it is a neutral card with legitimate other uses, even in other Warlock decks, so what I proposed could be done was making it mutually exclusive with The Demon Seed (meaning you can't have both in the same deck). This would likely take some backend changes to accomplish and even potentially some UI tweaks, and I'm not sure if they'd be willing to invest such effort in a minor patch. Still, I think ripping the bandaid off here would go a long way to long term Wild balance, as you can fix other problematic interactions now and in the future with mutual exclusivity.

I also believe that fatigue damage shouldn't be redirectable in the first place, but that's another discussion.

Quote from Mfunn >>

if you guys want a REALLY good deck vs questlock check this deck I made : https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1396108-anti-warlock-pure-kingsbane

 Thing is, you won’t face a single Seedlock if you play this deck ;)

killing wild? lul, the whole game is already dead..  :)

Quote from Suikiele >>

After getting legend in Wild last month, and playing through the ranks again this month, I think it really comes down to this: The final quest reward cards for Warlock, Hunter and Warrior should be 7 mana for a 7/7 permanent effect card, not 5. I don't see it much in wild, but I think the same applies for the Mage final quest reward: Make that thing 7 mana. And I'm very tempted to add Shaman to this list, as I'm certain the vacuum would mean they would float to the top (more than they already are). A two mana cost would slow things down enough that actual decisions made each turn would matter more.

True, true... that is why you have Mutanus the Devourer in your deck... you had to have a chance to eat those abominations... but usually you are dead turn five or six... ba-dum-tssssh!

I wouldn't be surprised if it is about to get banned in wild TBH.

Quote from kwikill >>

Quote from fusilli >>

Quote from LordCheesus >>

Well the only hope for this whole mess is for Demon Seed to be the warlock card getting banned in wild. Otherwise expect the deck to be the only one you run into in either format for the foreseeable future. 

 Crystallizer could be a decent hit, too. Might be just enough to slow it down, though I doubt it.

 As I posted in the balance patch speculation article (and got downvoted to hell for my opinion), Crystallizer jumps out at me as the main culprit in Wild.

The Demon Seed isn't nearly as much as a problem in Standard, so you have to look at which Wild cards are pushing it over the edge, and Crystallizer seems to be the biggest problem. (Expired Merchant is a close second because of its interaction with Hand of Gul'dan and the pretty much guaranteed "kill your opponent with your own fatigue")

The problem with banning Crystallizer is that it is a neutral card with legitimate other uses, even in other Warlock decks, so what I proposed could be done was making it mutually exclusive with The Demon Seed (meaning you can't have both in the same deck). This would likely take some backend changes to accomplish and even potentially some UI tweaks, and I'm not sure if they'd be willing to invest such effort in a minor patch. Still, I think ripping the bandaid off here would go a long way to long term Wild balance, as you can fix other problematic interactions now and in the future with mutual exclusivity.

I also believe that fatigue damage shouldn't be redirectable in the first place, but that's another discussion.

 I've said before, and still think it's the case, that the text for Demon Seed should have been "Lose 6 health on your turn" instead of "Take 6 damage". Crystallizer would work fine there as yes, you would take that 5 damage. But then you'd have to chisel through that 5 armor to start losing health again. This would also prevent the armor stacking with Armor Vendor that feels pretty degenerative to play against and push the playstyle back to "self damage and then restore your own health", forcing a balance in the card types you'd integrate.

If they ban the demon seed in wild, what are they gonna do when it rotates to wild? Just leave it out of the game forever? Seems like they need a proper fix to it, if they're ever going to keep the card alive.

I feel like the nerf announcement today is going to be interesting. Some people are gonna love it, lots - and I mean lots - of people are going to hate it.

Don't worry, Demon Seed is also killing Standard.

Surgery day boys and girls!!!

Time to cut this malignant blood sucking tumor out of wild format :D

Quote from fusilli >>

Quote from LordCheesus >>

Well the only hope for this whole mess is for Demon Seed to be the warlock card getting banned in wild. Otherwise expect the deck to be the only one you run into in either format for the foreseeable future. 

 Crystallizer could be a decent hit, too. Might be just enough to slow it down, though I doubt it.

 As a nerf, yes. But blizz was pretty specific that the banned card would be a WARLOCK class card. Not a warlock DECK card. Bit of a difference. So demon seed seems the most logical choice,

Crystallizer would need a very significant nerf before it stopped seeing play in painlock builds since warlock's one of the classes that laughs at "mana cost". You'd basically have to both reduce the amount of recoil damage he deals and nerf his mana cost by at least 2, Otherwise blizz's usual answers of "nerfs" won't mean didly-squat for the deck.

Quote from fusilli >>

Quote from LordCheesus >>

Well the only hope for this whole mess is for Demon Seed to be the warlock card getting banned in wild. Otherwise expect the deck to be the only one you run into in either format for the foreseeable future. 

 Crystallizer could be a decent hit, too. Might be just enough to slow it down, though I doubt it.

 You can't ban Wild-Only cards.

Quote from Suikiele >>

Quote from kwikill >>

Quote from fusilli >>

Quote from LordCheesus >>

Well the only hope for this whole mess is for Demon Seed to be the warlock card getting banned in wild. Otherwise expect the deck to be the only one you run into in either format for the foreseeable future. 

 Crystallizer could be a decent hit, too. Might be just enough to slow it down, though I doubt it.

 As I posted in the balance patch speculation article (and got downvoted to hell for my opinion), Crystallizer jumps out at me as the main culprit in Wild.

The Demon Seed isn't nearly as much as a problem in Standard, so you have to look at which Wild cards are pushing it over the edge, and Crystallizer seems to be the biggest problem. (Expired Merchant is a close second because of its interaction with Hand of Gul'dan and the pretty much guaranteed "kill your opponent with your own fatigue")

The problem with banning Crystallizer is that it is a neutral card with legitimate other uses, even in other Warlock decks, so what I proposed could be done was making it mutually exclusive with The Demon Seed (meaning you can't have both in the same deck). This would likely take some backend changes to accomplish and even potentially some UI tweaks, and I'm not sure if they'd be willing to invest such effort in a minor patch. Still, I think ripping the bandaid off here would go a long way to long term Wild balance, as you can fix other problematic interactions now and in the future with mutual exclusivity.

I also believe that fatigue damage shouldn't be redirectable in the first place, but that's another discussion.

 I've said before, and still think it's the case, that the text for Demon Seed should have been "Lose 6 health on your turn" instead of "Take 6 damage". Crystallizer would work fine there as yes, you would take that 5 damage. But then you'd have to chisel through that 5 armor to start losing health again. This would also prevent the armor stacking with Armor Vendor that feels pretty degenerative to play against and push the playstyle back to "self damage and then restore your own health", forcing a balance in the card types you'd integrate.

 That would be an interesting approach and wouldn't really require any backend changes either as Flesh Giant already works this way.

Quote from LordCheesus >>

Quote from fusilli >>

Quote from LordCheesus >>

Well the only hope for this whole mess is for Demon Seed to be the warlock card getting banned in wild. Otherwise expect the deck to be the only one you run into in either format for the foreseeable future. 

 Crystallizer could be a decent hit, too. Might be just enough to slow it down, though I doubt it.

 As a nerf, yes. But blizz was pretty specific that the banned card would be a WARLOCK class card. Not a warlock DECK card. Bit of a difference. So demon seed seems the most logical choice,

Crystallizer would need a very significant nerf before it stopped seeing play in painlock builds since warlock's one of the classes that laughs at "mana cost". You'd basically have to both reduce the amount of recoil damage he deals and nerf his mana cost by at least 2, Otherwise blizz's usual answers of "nerfs" won't mean didly-squat for the deck.

 Good point, it's all class cards getting hit, isn't it? I'm still skeptical of any changes to the Quest actually happening, but we'll see in a day or so :) Although it does just say 1 ban (warlock), which could mean it's aimed at locks as opposed to just class cards.

Quote from SpazzMaticus >>

Quote from fusilli >>

Quote from LordCheesus >>

Well the only hope for this whole mess is for Demon Seed to be the warlock card getting banned in wild. Otherwise expect the deck to be the only one you run into in either format for the foreseeable future. 

 Crystallizer could be a decent hit, too. Might be just enough to slow it down, though I doubt it.

 You can't ban Wild-Only cards.

 I wouldn't be too surprised to see Blizz just banhammer it out of existence for a while, honestly, until they can redesign it a bit. After all, there were no bans at all until very recently. Not too likely, though. Also forgot that's not a lock class card :P

Well, I'm surprised - and glad - but Seed is gone tomorrow. I didn't think they had the guts to do that to one of their flagship cards for the expansion, but I'm glad they did. Let the (ban)hammer fall!

Makes for a nice end to a night after an evening of selfish people at an AGM.