I am playing wild at a minimum rank of diamond 5 for more than a year and hit legend in that time. With every new card set, wild develops more and more in the direction of one hit comobos or near one hit combos. When game starts, you may already know whats coming because your enemy is not interacting with you, he is more on playing a single player Hearthstone on the same board, where he is collecting cards for a winning combo. Some of these combos are using a countless draw of cards or generating (discovering) an endless amount of cards . All you can do is sit there and watch cards swapping, cards popping out of nowhere, cards diving in your opponents deck and new ones jumping out of his deck again and again. Seems like your opponent is playing 20+ cards per turn. In most cases there is nothing you can do to interrupt him or to destroy the combo. You just sit there and wait for the end of your turn, or the end of your game. There may be some cards to destroy the one hit combo in your opponents deck, but this deck will not be competative against others. It's just usefull against one special deck.
It's good that there are more than one win conditions, but when you are finishing your turn with 30 HP (and some armor), while your opponent was <10 HP and you are losing the game in one turn because of some weird combos, it makes you feel cheated.
I do not mind losing a game. I do not mind losing vs a special deck, but losing vs this decks sux.
Just had another game vs a mage archetype which does nothing but collecting cards until he has Sorcerer's Apprentice and Flamewalker and then keeps spamming cheap discover spells again and again. This is not gaming in the sense of acting and reacting, this is pure stupidity and poor game design by Blizzard.
There has to be a limit in card generation. Some classes are able to generate infinite cards over and over again. A "Discover" card should be able to discover another "Discover" card.
The new warlock card stealer of Souls is the only thing breaking wild, otherwise it's fine. Definitely some underpowered classes though. Mage/warlock/pally are the kings
The new warlock card stealer of Souls is the only thing breaking wild, otherwise it's fine. Definitely some underpowered classes though. Mage/warlock/pally are the kings
The only thing? Hardly. Lets review:
Thoughtless aggro decks have unlimited and cheap buffs. Did you clear the board? Doesnt matter. Reload full board next turn plus buffs. Did you clear it again? Nice job - sorry...reload again. Full board and buffs again. Its fucking endless. Aggro has NO counter. Taunts dont work, clears dont work, nothing does. Oh and paladin gets to have divine shield on their guys too the entire game. Real nice job, Blizz.
Pirate Warrior is another perfect deck for the eh-ham "intellectuals" to abuse. So many heavily under-costed cards that are extremely hard to remove that just wreck everything. Its so stupid.
Warlock and that Dark Glare thing - another beauty. Draw 10 cards per turn, redo hero power, take damage, huge minions come out, draw more, I dont even know WTF is happening during their turn. Its a good time to go mow the lawn.
Secret Mage - yeah, its beatable but they MUST draw sort of bad and you MUST draw great. Otherwise, its obscene how much value and tempo they gain with free 5/5 minions and the secret synergy.
Now, here is the deal: Those decks would be OK IF the game gave us a legit, reasonable way to counter them. But they dont. Any counters that do exist are horrible cards, too expensive, dont really help or they totally cripple your other match-ups. Thats what ruins Wild mode. Its fine to have some crazy decks but give us a real way to screw them up. These are things to fix wild:
Make minion buffs cost more mana. Like way more.
No more zero cost cards. None. 1 is a the minimum except for Shadow step.
Get rid of paladins "divine shield for the whole game" BS. Thats total crap. Make it for one turn only if not just delete it all.
Give us a real secret counter that truly hurts. Eater of Secrets blows. Flare gets stopped by Counterspell & Yogg. Just no way to counter them and playing around them is a bad strategy and rarely works.
Wild needs some work, for sure. Im sick of games being decided after the first few turns or the matchup screen. There is NO skill involved in any of this either. Its 100% matchup and then pure early draw based. That decides every game from D5 on down.
The new warlock card stealer of Souls is the only thing breaking wild, otherwise it's fine. Definitely some underpowered classes though. Mage/warlock/pally are the kings
The only thing? Hardly. Lets review:
Thoughtless aggro decks have unlimited and cheap buffs. Did you clear the board? Doesnt matter. Reload full board next turn plus buffs. Did you clear it again? Nice job - sorry...reload again. Full board and buffs again. Its fucking endless. Aggro has NO counter. Taunts dont work, clears dont work, nothing does. Oh and paladin gets to have divine shield on their guys too the entire game. Real nice job, Blizz.
Pirate Warrior is another perfect deck for the eh-ham "intellectuals" to abuse. So many heavily under-costed cards that are extremely hard to remove that just wreck everything. Its so stupid.
Warlock and that Dark Glare thing - another beauty. Draw 10 cards per turn, redo hero power, take damage, huge minions come out, draw more, I dont even know WTF is happening during their turn. Its a good time to go mow the lawn.
Secret Mage - yeah, its beatable but they MUST draw sort of bad and you MUST draw great. Otherwise, its obscene how much value and tempo they gain with free 5/5 minions and the secret synergy.
Now, here is the deal: Those decks would be OK IF the game gave us a legit, reasonable way to counter them. But they dont. Any counters that do exist are horrible cards, too expensive, dont really help or they totally cripple your other match-ups. Thats what ruins Wild mode. Its fine to have some crazy decks but give us a real way to screw them up. These are things to fix wild:
Make minion buffs cost more mana. Like way more.
No more zero cost cards. None. 1 is a the minimum except for Shadow step.
Get rid of paladins "divine shield for the whole game" BS. Thats total crap. Make it for one turn only if not just delete it all.
Give us a real secret counter that truly hurts. Eater of Secrets blows. Flare gets stopped by Counterspell & Yogg. Just no way to counter them and playing around them is a bad strategy and rarely works.
Wild needs some work, for sure. Im sick of games being decided after the first few turns or the matchup screen. There is NO skill involved in any of this either. Its 100% matchup and then pure early draw based. That decides every game from D5 on down.
I don't think things costing 0 is bad to have, the problem is when you have cards that have no upper limit on how much mana you can discount, like Sorcerer's Apprentice, Stealer of Souls, or Incanter's Flow. Cards that only discount a set amount of mana, even if they discount something to 0 aren't a problem, like Imprisoned Satyr, Shadowstep, G'huun the Blood God. Now these kinds of cards can be broken too, like Kabal Lackey, but that's true of any effect.
To fix wild, i think there needs to be a goal in mind, you hear Iskar criticize people calling for nerfs with 'well then the next deck will break the meta'. So i think the goal should be to make a wild meta where all the recurring archetypes (like zoo, handlock, beast hunter, dragon priest, control warrior etc) are tier 3 (winrate within one standard deviation of 50%) or better. That way if your favorite archetype isn't viable in standard, you can go and play it in wild. This would require some buffs as well as nerfs, but i'll focus on nerfs.
Secret mage needs either its burn or its tempo nerfed, but i'll go with tempo. Nerf Kabal Crystal Runner and Kabal Lackey to costs (1) less for each secret played, and the next secret costs (2) less respectively. Also buff Eater of Secrets to have rush, so that it's an actual tempo swing when it works
Yea agree, its in an even far more ridiculous state compared to like a year ago. Wild is sensitive to powercreep and broken super synergies. If you took a break and don't have the cards anymore for standard the powercreep will make sure you don't have the cards for wild anymore either.
Given we've only had the first expansion so far this year, which is usually the weakest, it is pretty clear the devs want to power creep the ever living shit out of the game. For rotationless wild, if things weren't already bad, they aren't going to get any better.
There will be more Stealer of Souls, and even if there weren't what is all ready there is a foundation of complete BS.
Arena, Battlegrounds and Standard are all good modes. The game still lives.
The problem is not the OTK and Combos. The problem is Reno decks where you have to kill the opponent twice in a game and 3 times against Mage. OTK and Combo decks have a better chance against Reno decks. Take Reno out and the OTK and Combos are likely to significantly diminish because the format will be faster.
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Great art can never be created without great suffering.
The problem is not the OTK and Combos. The problem is Reno decks where you have to kill the opponent twice in a game and 3 times against Mage. OTK and Combo decks have a better chance against Reno decks. Take Reno out and the OTK and Combos are likely to significantly diminish because the format will be faster.
Thats the only thing that still holds control decks and you wanna delete it for faster games ? That is the problem with wild super fast boring useless games.
If you thought it was bad before; many of the fast questlines have made the situation worse. Hunter, Warlock and Warrior are especially oppressive. The Priest one, as you might expect, is too slow but it occasionally pulls off a victory.
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Dependable loan sharks since 1960. We sink our teeth into every deal we make.
All the quests are worse than the same decks without them. You don’t lose to the warlock quest, you lose to darkglare doing darkglare things and carying a subpar card. Hunter is only good because of the amount of warlock in the meta, pirate quest is fine and the deck is worse with it
Quest Pirate Warrior is definitely worse than Pirate Warrior. Having 1 less card in hand and not playing any 1-drops and summoning Patches on t1 is too big of a deal for an aggro deck.
However, although probably objectively worse than regular Pirate Warrior, I've had some success (and fun) with Reno Pirate Warrior
All the quests are worse than the same decks without them. You don’t lose to the warlock quest, you lose to darkglare doing darkglare things and carying a subpar card. Hunter is only good because of the amount of warlock in the meta, pirate quest is fine and the deck is worse with it
Number one, the quest deals 6 damage to the opponent and heals you 6 while you‘re doing darkglare things. Number 2, the quest bonuses reduce the cost of flesh giant twice for free, bringing it out faster. Number 3, once Tamsin comes out, all your cards kill your opponent.
The version of the deck that is best now has dropped the molten giants and the Barrens Tamsin+Power Overwhelming for Crystalizers and Unlicensed Apothecaries. With darkglare, it can often complete the quest on turn 4. Even without, Tamsin comes out on turn 6 and ends the game on turn 7. It is definitely a stronger deck than the old darkglare deck, which lost to taunt walls and board clears. Hand lock could beat old darkglare, but cannot beat Demon Seed. Control Warrior could beat old Darkglare, but cannot beat Demon Seed.
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I am playing wild at a minimum rank of diamond 5 for more than a year and hit legend in that time. With every new card set, wild develops more and more in the direction of one hit comobos or near one hit combos.
When game starts, you may already know whats coming because your enemy is not interacting with you, he is more on playing a single player Hearthstone on the same board, where he is collecting cards for a winning combo. Some of these combos are using a countless draw of cards or generating (discovering) an endless amount of cards . All you can do is sit there and watch cards swapping, cards popping out of nowhere, cards diving in your opponents deck and new ones jumping out of his deck again and again. Seems like your opponent is playing 20+ cards per turn.
In most cases there is nothing you can do to interrupt him or to destroy the combo. You just sit there and wait for the end of your turn, or the end of your game.
There may be some cards to destroy the one hit combo in your opponents deck, but this deck will not be competative against others. It's just usefull against one special deck.
It's good that there are more than one win conditions, but when you are finishing your turn with 30 HP (and some armor), while your opponent was <10 HP and you are losing the game in one turn because of some weird combos, it makes you feel cheated.
I do not mind losing a game. I do not mind losing vs a special deck, but losing vs this decks sux.
Yeah, I fully agree, it sucks, but at this point balancing Wild seems like a real nightmare to me. :(
Just had another game vs a mage archetype which does nothing but collecting cards until he has Sorcerer's Apprentice and Flamewalker and then keeps spamming cheap discover spells again and again.
This is not gaming in the sense of acting and reacting, this is pure stupidity and poor game design by Blizzard.
There has to be a limit in card generation. Some classes are able to generate infinite cards over and over again. A "Discover" card should be able to discover another "Discover" card.
The new warlock card stealer of Souls is the only thing breaking wild, otherwise it's fine. Definitely some underpowered classes though. Mage/warlock/pally are the kings
Wild, It's crazier than the opening scene in Wild at Heart
Just make nerf every card that consistently can reduce other cards to zero mana cost, so they cant reduce them to less than one - wild fixed.
Silver Hand Recruit
All i see is secret mage, nothing changed
It's sad because i cant even suggest you to play Standard cus it's doomed too. lol
The only thing? Hardly. Lets review:
Now, here is the deal: Those decks would be OK IF the game gave us a legit, reasonable way to counter them. But they dont. Any counters that do exist are horrible cards, too expensive, dont really help or they totally cripple your other match-ups. Thats what ruins Wild mode. Its fine to have some crazy decks but give us a real way to screw them up. These are things to fix wild:
Wild needs some work, for sure. Im sick of games being decided after the first few turns or the matchup screen. There is NO skill involved in any of this either. Its 100% matchup and then pure early draw based. That decides every game from D5 on down.
I don't think things costing 0 is bad to have, the problem is when you have cards that have no upper limit on how much mana you can discount, like Sorcerer's Apprentice, Stealer of Souls, or Incanter's Flow. Cards that only discount a set amount of mana, even if they discount something to 0 aren't a problem, like Imprisoned Satyr, Shadowstep, G'huun the Blood God. Now these kinds of cards can be broken too, like Kabal Lackey, but that's true of any effect.
To fix wild, i think there needs to be a goal in mind, you hear Iskar criticize people calling for nerfs with 'well then the next deck will break the meta'. So i think the goal should be to make a wild meta where all the recurring archetypes (like zoo, handlock, beast hunter, dragon priest, control warrior etc) are tier 3 (winrate within one standard deviation of 50%) or better. That way if your favorite archetype isn't viable in standard, you can go and play it in wild. This would require some buffs as well as nerfs, but i'll focus on nerfs.
Sorcerer's Apprentice, Stealer of Souls, and Incanter's Flow should be nerfed to the first 4 spells per turn, first 3 cards drawn, and first 6 spells in your deck respectively.
Secret mage needs either its burn or its tempo nerfed, but i'll go with tempo. Nerf Kabal Crystal Runner and Kabal Lackey to costs (1) less for each secret played, and the next secret costs (2) less respectively. Also buff Eater of Secrets to have rush, so that it's an actual tempo swing when it works
Yea agree, its in an even far more ridiculous state compared to like a year ago. Wild is sensitive to powercreep and broken super synergies. If you took a break and don't have the cards anymore for standard the powercreep will make sure you don't have the cards for wild anymore either.
Given we've only had the first expansion so far this year, which is usually the weakest, it is pretty clear the devs want to power creep the ever living shit out of the game. For rotationless wild, if things weren't already bad, they aren't going to get any better.
There will be more Stealer of Souls, and even if there weren't what is all ready there is a foundation of complete BS.
Arena, Battlegrounds and Standard are all good modes. The game still lives.
What is a one hit combo to begin with ?
Never seen any deck win a hearthstone game with "one hit".
you don't like combo you play aggro, end of the story, it has nothing to do with Wild power level.
That's in every format of every card game.
The problem is not the OTK and Combos. The problem is Reno decks where you have to kill the opponent twice in a game and 3 times against Mage. OTK and Combo decks have a better chance against Reno decks. Take Reno out and the OTK and Combos are likely to significantly diminish because the format will be faster.
Great art can never be created without great suffering.
Thats the only thing that still holds control decks and you wanna delete it for faster games ? That is the problem with wild super fast boring useless games.
If you thought it was bad before; many of the fast questlines have made the situation worse. Hunter, Warlock and Warrior are especially oppressive. The Priest one, as you might expect, is too slow but it occasionally pulls off a victory.
Dependable loan sharks since 1960. We sink our teeth into every deal we make.
All the quests are worse than the same decks without them. You don’t lose to the warlock quest, you lose to darkglare doing darkglare things and carying a subpar card. Hunter is only good because of the amount of warlock in the meta, pirate quest is fine and the deck is worse with it
Quest Pirate Warrior is definitely worse than Pirate Warrior. Having 1 less card in hand and not playing any 1-drops and summoning Patches on t1 is too big of a deal for an aggro deck.
However, although probably objectively worse than regular Pirate Warrior, I've had some success (and fun) with Reno Pirate Warrior
standard is dead too, mage has infinite 0 mana pyroblasts and warlock destroys any control deck
Number one, the quest deals 6 damage to the opponent and heals you 6 while you‘re doing darkglare things. Number 2, the quest bonuses reduce the cost of flesh giant twice for free, bringing it out faster. Number 3, once Tamsin comes out, all your cards kill your opponent.
The version of the deck that is best now has dropped the molten giants and the Barrens Tamsin+Power Overwhelming for Crystalizers and Unlicensed Apothecaries. With darkglare, it can often complete the quest on turn 4. Even without, Tamsin comes out on turn 6 and ends the game on turn 7. It is definitely a stronger deck than the old darkglare deck, which lost to taunt walls and board clears. Hand lock could beat old darkglare, but cannot beat Demon Seed. Control Warrior could beat old Darkglare, but cannot beat Demon Seed.