I think a lot of people are comparing this to eater of secrets and say it isn't that great. But I think it could be an interesting twist on the game and maybe be a good inclusion.
I suppose you can look at this card in a couple ways:
1) It gives you information, you will know exactly what secrets are up, so you can play around what's left.
2) It cheats mana, you play a 3 mana card and get 3, 6 or maybe 9 mana worth of secrets in play.
3) Now your opponent has to play around their own secrets, how well does secret mage do that?
Nah. Secret mage thrives on high tempo enabled by having secrets; copying their secrets does little to impact them. Stealing a block and then healing would work against, say, freezemage, but not against stuff like this with heavy board prescence; simultaneously, stealing a 3 dam aoe that they know is coming doesn't work against a board full of 4/4s. Eater is a significantly better tech card, whilst being worse in other MUs, but most slower decks don't mind the poor base statline of eater in other MUs because the card does its job well in the main MU it's needed for.
Don't think it manages enough for the aggressive decks to want it.
this card is cool but I don't feel like it's enough...it could definitely help though..expecially since a great part of what makes secrets strong is that you don't know what they are
I don't see it as a great Anti-Secret Mage tech. Versus Secret Mages you want to destroy their secrets so that you can deny them draw (Rigged Faire Game) and tempo with Occult Conjurer, Cloud Prince and so on. This is where Eater of Secrets for example really shines. If Secret Mage remains a top tier deck in the next expansion though, I can see Horde Operative being an insane Secret Mage mirror match tech
Who the heck runs eater of secrets? What are u guys on about? Terrible card vs other match ups and its not game breaking to secrer mages. Ive seen it and it does almost zero to stop secret mage
I think a lot of people are comparing this to eater of secrets and say it isn't that great. But I think it could be an interesting twist on the game and maybe be a good inclusion.
I suppose you can look at this card in a couple ways:
1) It gives you information, you will know exactly what secrets are up, so you can play around what's left.
2) It cheats mana, you play a 3 mana card and get 3, 6 or maybe 9 mana worth of secrets in play.
3) Now your opponent has to play around their own secrets, how well does secret mage do that?
Just my two cents.
Agreed.
Information itself is hugely valuable, then compound that with all the value of getting their secrets for 3 mana and you’re in the ridiculous strong category.. then on top of that it’s NEUTRAL and you get a 2/4 body?
Obviously it’s requires enemy secrets in play to find use, but with 4 classes using secrets and with all of them having now having a secret-based legendary, this will undeniably see play. Only severe naïveté, brain injury, or visual impairment would lead someone to think otherwise.
Interesting thing about this tech card is even if its maybe worse into secret mage than Eater of Secrets...its a LOT better into everything else. 3 mana 3/4 is okay while a 4 mana 2/4 is awful. Also...even if it doesn't destroy the secrets you get to see which ones they are so you can play around them easier. I think this will replace eater as the popular secret tech card.
Nah. Secret mage thrives on high tempo enabled by having secrets; copying their secrets does little to impact them. Stealing a block and then healing would work against, say, freezemage, but not against stuff like this with heavy board prescence; simultaneously, stealing a 3 dam aoe that they know is coming doesn't work against a board full of 4/4s. Eater is a significantly better tech card, whilst being worse in other MUs, but most slower decks don't mind the poor base statline of eater in other MUs because the card does its job well in the main MU it's needed for.
Don't think it manages enough for the aggressive decks to want it.
Literally this, except for the fact that you overrate Eater of Secrets. A good secret mage player will never overcommit with secrets in any MU where a teched Eater or Flare is a realistic option.
Horde Operative is also not an "insane Secret Mage mirror match tech" because you don't want to wait for a 0-2 or even 0-3 disadvantage in active secrets against your opponent. You want to play this when you have no secrets or you have to guess, which ones they have to not get a copy of the secrets you already have in play (which gives info to your opponent btw, because they see that you didn't copy their secrets).
Another big issue of the card is that your opponent knows your secrets. When we had that Kabal card that used to draw a random potion and one of the options was the Sheep potion, EVERYONE could very easily play around that. And it really isn't a big deal for secret mages to play around their own secrets, especially if they are already ahead (which a 3 mana 3/4 will not change at all). The card is absolutely terrible in the mirror.
That being said, the only decks that could run this are reno lists because yes, some secret mages actually play Iceblock, but that's only relevant if you can use a massive heal like Reno and board clears to not get burned out again in later stages. Also, how does this trigger Explosive Ruins or Mirror Entity (lol)? Do you get the additional secret?
To me, this looks like a standard "tech" card to keep the new secret paladin, Hanar, and Ring Toss in check.
I think a lot of people are comparing this to eater of secrets and say it isn't that great. But I think it could be an interesting twist on the game and maybe be a good inclusion.
I suppose you can look at this card in a couple ways:
1) It gives you information, you will know exactly what secrets are up, so you can play around what's left.
2) It cheats mana, you play a 3 mana card and get 3, 6 or maybe 9 mana worth of secrets in play.
3) Now your opponent has to play around their own secrets, how well does secret mage do that?
Just my two cents.
The knowledge is useful so you can play around that Counterspell to clear the board or drop the higher health minion for the Explosive Runes.
You get pseudo tempo. Yes, you gain 3, 6 or 9 mana worth of secrets, but it won’t drastically change the gameplan for the mage. There are enough small spells to feed Counterspell, what does it matter that the Cloud Prince, first Conjurer, even the Cabal Lackey died to Explosive Runes when you still got hit for 6, the second Conjurer spawned or the next secret is still free.
It’s worse than the mirror because you already know your own secrets and what to play around.
And for you? Well, you still need to feed something to the Counterspell, sacrifice a minion to Explosive Runs. The Eater gives some breathing room and removes the prerequisite, forcing the mage to spend mana on playing another secret.
I am pretty sure that playing 2 Conjurers is just wrong. I played 1 and 2 copies and the 2nd copy has stranded in my hand way too often.
Anyway, if you can't play around Counterspell because you have to use that 5-7 cost board clear in your hand and have no mana to test, this new card changes literally nothing, just like any other secret tech card. It's too late already. Knowing that it's Counterspell is often irrelevant because you have to assume and play around the worst possible outcome everytime anyway.
In a nutshell: Knowledge is power, unless you are already dead anyway.
Copying them isn’t nearly as good as stealing or destroying them. You get less tempo loss in stats overall, but definitely a worse effect. Might problem with secret mage is that it messes up the way I play my deck. Trying to screw with their game plan doesn’t do nearly as much. It would need to be at least 2 secrets up for this to be worth it and even then, probably not gaining much since they can play around the copied secrets easily.
I do think people is underestimating Horde Operative a bit.
While it is a weaker effect overall against Secret-based decks, this card does give you extra cards that can also affect the Secret-playing opponent as well for basically free. Add that with a solid stat line for a 3-mana minion and you got one of the better "tech" cards if you ever want to play one because there is barely any cost to get extra cards from the classes that is playing Secrets.
Eater of Secrets is far better if you need to get rid of the Secrets the turn you are ready to win the game but against the non-Secret players, it's really bad for the stats. A 2/4 for 4 is extremely underwhelming but that is the deck building cost for such a powerful tech effect on a Neutral body.
There is powerful competitive decks out there that can match up with Secret Mage already that can just slot one of them in their builds (if not 2 if they have the space) and turn the Secret Mage matchup from a 50/50 to more like a 70/30 or 80/20 due to the free cards. Don't forget Hunter, Paladin, and Rogue. For the decks that it doesn't affect, it is a solid 3/4 for 3 on tempo turns.
This is basically like Bad Luck Albatross with a more defensive stat line that works against far more classes than just the Highlander archetype. Unless I REALLY need the Secrets to be removed, I will gladly take an extra 2-3 Secrets as leverage and knowledge over my opponent for basically free and work around them then.
After all, your opponent needs to do the same with the free Secrets you just gained.
Well, it's a "tech" option for odd decks, I give it that.
It should mean that the card copies all secrets your opponent has and plays them. You get no copy into your hand, the secrets get automatically played. And only one copy per secret.
It doesn't remove opponent's secrets nor does it take control of them. It just copies them and plays it for you.
Im not used into the english wording. What does the card text actually mean?
Does it just make you have the opponents secrets or does it mean you get the active secrets AND a copy into your hand?
"Copy your opponent's Secrets and put them into play."
Im irritated since Kezan Mystic says: "take control"
You get a copy of your opponents secrets in play, none in hand, and the opp keeps them, I am assuming. Kezan takes the secret, as opposed to a copy of it, hence the different wording.
Honestly I can see thos card becoming exactly like the 4/3 deathrattle beast that shuffled two 1/1 to disable Highlander/pure paladin by making the body less value. I can see the exact same fate for this card. It will be a 4 drop in the future.
I think a lot of people are comparing this to eater of secrets and say it isn't that great. But I think it could be an interesting twist on the game and maybe be a good inclusion.
I suppose you can look at this card in a couple ways:
1) It gives you information, you will know exactly what secrets are up, so you can play around what's left.
2) It cheats mana, you play a 3 mana card and get 3, 6 or maybe 9 mana worth of secrets in play.
3) Now your opponent has to play around their own secrets, how well does secret mage do that?
Just my two cents.
i see it exactly that way
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They released Horde Operative to the new set Forged in the Barrens and I wonder if it would be enough to deal with wild secret mage.
There are other tech cards such as Chief Inspector, Eater of Secrets, Kezan Mystic and SI:7 Infiltrator and I keep guessing if this new card is worth playing it.
I imagine a best-case scenario in which you can copy Ice Block and resist against secret mage? Would it be a nice use?
What do you think?
underwhelming imo, rather destroy his secrets. secret mage doesnt play iceblock does it?
I think a lot of people are comparing this to eater of secrets and say it isn't that great. But I think it could be an interesting twist on the game and maybe be a good inclusion.
I suppose you can look at this card in a couple ways:
1) It gives you information, you will know exactly what secrets are up, so you can play around what's left.
2) It cheats mana, you play a 3 mana card and get 3, 6 or maybe 9 mana worth of secrets in play.
3) Now your opponent has to play around their own secrets, how well does secret mage do that?
Just my two cents.
Nah. Secret mage thrives on high tempo enabled by having secrets; copying their secrets does little to impact them. Stealing a block and then healing would work against, say, freezemage, but not against stuff like this with heavy board prescence; simultaneously, stealing a 3 dam aoe that they know is coming doesn't work against a board full of 4/4s. Eater is a significantly better tech card, whilst being worse in other MUs, but most slower decks don't mind the poor base statline of eater in other MUs because the card does its job well in the main MU it's needed for.
Don't think it manages enough for the aggressive decks to want it.
this card is cool but I don't feel like it's enough...it could definitely help though..expecially since a great part of what makes secrets strong is that you don't know what they are
I don't see it as a great Anti-Secret Mage tech. Versus Secret Mages you want to destroy their secrets so that you can deny them draw (Rigged Faire Game) and tempo with Occult Conjurer, Cloud Prince and so on. This is where Eater of Secrets for example really shines. If Secret Mage remains a top tier deck in the next expansion though, I can see Horde Operative being an insane Secret Mage mirror match tech
Who the heck runs eater of secrets? What are u guys on about? Terrible card vs other match ups and its not game breaking to secrer mages. Ive seen it and it does almost zero to stop secret mage
Agreed.
Information itself is hugely valuable, then compound that with all the value of getting their secrets for 3 mana and you’re in the ridiculous strong category.. then on top of that it’s NEUTRAL and you get a 2/4 body?
Obviously it’s requires enemy secrets in play to find use, but with 4 classes using secrets and with all of them having now having a secret-based legendary, this will undeniably see play. Only severe naïveté, brain injury, or visual impairment would lead someone to think otherwise.
Interesting thing about this tech card is even if its maybe worse into secret mage than Eater of Secrets...its a LOT better into everything else. 3 mana 3/4 is okay while a 4 mana 2/4 is awful. Also...even if it doesn't destroy the secrets you get to see which ones they are so you can play around them easier. I think this will replace eater as the popular secret tech card.
Literally this, except for the fact that you overrate Eater of Secrets. A good secret mage player will never overcommit with secrets in any MU where a teched Eater or Flare is a realistic option.
Horde Operative is also not an "insane Secret Mage mirror match tech" because you don't want to wait for a 0-2 or even 0-3 disadvantage in active secrets against your opponent. You want to play this when you have no secrets or you have to guess, which ones they have to not get a copy of the secrets you already have in play (which gives info to your opponent btw, because they see that you didn't copy their secrets).
Another big issue of the card is that your opponent knows your secrets. When we had that Kabal card that used to draw a random potion and one of the options was the Sheep potion, EVERYONE could very easily play around that. And it really isn't a big deal for secret mages to play around their own secrets, especially if they are already ahead (which a 3 mana 3/4 will not change at all). The card is absolutely terrible in the mirror.
That being said, the only decks that could run this are reno lists because yes, some secret mages actually play Iceblock, but that's only relevant if you can use a massive heal like Reno and board clears to not get burned out again in later stages. Also, how does this trigger Explosive Ruins or Mirror Entity (lol)? Do you get the additional secret?
To me, this looks like a standard "tech" card to keep the new secret paladin, Hanar, and Ring Toss in check.
The knowledge is useful so you can play around that Counterspell to clear the board or drop the higher health minion for the Explosive Runes.
You get pseudo tempo. Yes, you gain 3, 6 or 9 mana worth of secrets, but it won’t drastically change the gameplan for the mage. There are enough small spells to feed Counterspell, what does it matter that the Cloud Prince, first Conjurer, even the Cabal Lackey died to Explosive Runes when you still got hit for 6, the second Conjurer spawned or the next secret is still free.
It’s worse than the mirror because you already know your own secrets and what to play around.
And for you? Well, you still need to feed something to the Counterspell, sacrifice a minion to Explosive Runs. The Eater gives some breathing room and removes the prerequisite, forcing the mage to spend mana on playing another secret.
I am pretty sure that playing 2 Conjurers is just wrong. I played 1 and 2 copies and the 2nd copy has stranded in my hand way too often.
Anyway, if you can't play around Counterspell because you have to use that 5-7 cost board clear in your hand and have no mana to test, this new card changes literally nothing, just like any other secret tech card. It's too late already. Knowing that it's Counterspell is often irrelevant because you have to assume and play around the worst possible outcome everytime anyway.
In a nutshell: Knowledge is power, unless you are already dead anyway.
Copying them isn’t nearly as good as stealing or destroying them. You get less tempo loss in stats overall, but definitely a worse effect. Might problem with secret mage is that it messes up the way I play my deck. Trying to screw with their game plan doesn’t do nearly as much. It would need to be at least 2 secrets up for this to be worth it and even then, probably not gaining much since they can play around the copied secrets easily.
I do think people is underestimating Horde Operative a bit.
While it is a weaker effect overall against Secret-based decks, this card does give you extra cards that can also affect the Secret-playing opponent as well for basically free. Add that with a solid stat line for a 3-mana minion and you got one of the better "tech" cards if you ever want to play one because there is barely any cost to get extra cards from the classes that is playing Secrets.
Eater of Secrets is far better if you need to get rid of the Secrets the turn you are ready to win the game but against the non-Secret players, it's really bad for the stats. A 2/4 for 4 is extremely underwhelming but that is the deck building cost for such a powerful tech effect on a Neutral body.
There is powerful competitive decks out there that can match up with Secret Mage already that can just slot one of them in their builds (if not 2 if they have the space) and turn the Secret Mage matchup from a 50/50 to more like a 70/30 or 80/20 due to the free cards. Don't forget Hunter, Paladin, and Rogue. For the decks that it doesn't affect, it is a solid 3/4 for 3 on tempo turns.
This is basically like Bad Luck Albatross with a more defensive stat line that works against far more classes than just the Highlander archetype. Unless I REALLY need the Secrets to be removed, I will gladly take an extra 2-3 Secrets as leverage and knowledge over my opponent for basically free and work around them then.
After all, your opponent needs to do the same with the free Secrets you just gained.
Im not used into the english wording. What does the card text actually mean?
Does it just make you have the opponents secrets or does it mean you get the active secrets AND a copy into your hand?
"Copy your opponent's Secrets and put them into play."
Im irritated since Kezan Mystic says: "take control"
Well, it's a "tech" option for odd decks, I give it that.
It should mean that the card copies all secrets your opponent has and plays them. You get no copy into your hand, the secrets get automatically played. And only one copy per secret.
It doesn't remove opponent's secrets nor does it take control of them. It just copies them and plays it for you.
You get a copy of your opponents secrets in play, none in hand, and the opp keeps them, I am assuming. Kezan takes the secret, as opposed to a copy of it, hence the different wording.
Honestly I can see thos card becoming exactly like the 4/3 deathrattle beast that shuffled two 1/1 to disable Highlander/pure paladin by making the body less value. I can see the exact same fate for this card. It will be a 4 drop in the future.
its a lot better than eater of secrets because its not a 4 mana 2/4
i see it exactly that way