I’ve been asking myself for days now why they made Kingsbane 1 mana. But really, I would rather see it go to 2 durability. The swings should be thoughtful and saved for when there are good buffs on it. Rogue has enough weapon tutors to re-equip it reliably but I can’t imagine Blizzard wanted them to be able to pull endless 5+/3 weapons
Another change I would like to see is a change to graveyards. Priest being able to resurrect numerous copies of the same minion is incongruous with the amount of mana invested in getting the minions on the board. One dead Scrapyard Colossus should at most be revived to be the original and its deathrattle.
Explosive Runes - After your opponent plays a minion, deal 5 damage to it. If that kills it, deal 2 damage to the enemy hero.
Voidcaller - Deathrattle: Put a random demon from your hand into the battlefield and silence it.
Kingsbane - Always keeps enchantments. Deathrattle: Shuffle this into your deck and increase its cost by (1).
Raza the Chained - change statline to 4/6; Battlecry: If your deck has no duplicates, your hero power costs (1) this game.
Archmage Vargoth - At the start of your turn, cast a spell youve cast last turn (targets are random).
Runes is too much face damage and has no viable counterplay. Its just a minor nerf, but allows for enemy to mitigate the damage by playing something small.
Voidcaller is just super strong for its cost. Silencing still provides bunch of stats and potential for good Guldan ressurect later or a body to be Cubed, but prevents locking the game early with Voidlords / Enhanced Dreadlords / Malganis... also stops any Doomguard shenanigans.
Agree that Kingsbane should cost more. But increasing the cost slowly the more you play seems better fit "lore-wise".
Shadowreaper hero power is still very good for 1 mana, but it stops any 30 damage OTK nonsense. To compensate for the nerf, changing Raza to 4/6 is a buff (better statline than 5/5, also Shadowreaper doesnt kill it with its battlecry).
Vargoth already has a good statline for a 4 drop. The ability to double up on spells is kinda insane. Especially considering the interactions with ressurects, Shadow Essence and druid Oaken Summons. This way it would need to survive a turn. In most cases this is a big nerf, but it would also enable cool play: turn 3 coin Vargoth, if opponent cant kill it, you get coin again next turn. This change kinda gives me Nat Pagle vibes... who in all honestly should be buffed from 0/4 to a 1/3.
Kingsbane nerf would help, but even aggro rogue with the 4/2 weapon is rough because of the new toxin. New toxin seems too good for 1 mana, I like making it 2 mana or only boost 2 attack to minion, 1 to weapon. Considering oil is +3/+3 and costs 3 more mana aaand is still played, I think it’s fair to say the toxin is too good.
and yes, nerf secret mage plz. Cloud prince, explosive runes, the 0 mana 5/5, etc.
I think raza priest is fine except for the otk crap, so I like either nerfing raza to 1 mana hero power but maybe make it cost 4 as a minion to compensate, or maybe nerf the 4 drop otk combo minion to only activate once a turn?
big priest feels fine to me, but I don’t play decks that it counters so idk.
I don’t think this one necessarily needs a nerfs, but one of the most annoying cards in wild for me is loatheb. So hard to play around and just prevents any reaction to the board state and super annoying when they can spam the board with stuff like in dark glare.
Kabal Lackey should go to 2 mana, Crystal Runner to 7 or "can't be reduced below 1", Kirin Tor Mage to 3/3, Cloud Prince to 4 damage or can only hit minions, maybe Runes to 5 damage...
Anduin should go to 9 mana (much more helpful than Raza to 7 because this would actually delay the combo), alternatively but maybe a bit too much: Spawn of Shadows goes to only deal 3 damage per hero power, Palm Reading could be changed to "Reduce the cost of 1, maybe 2 random Spells in your hand" if you want to target both Priest decks (res a bit more in that case).
Regarding Rogue, I would actually nerf Oil by one mana and not the other cards. Maybe Kingsbane to 1/2 or even 0/3. Or as a meme suggestion, Deckhand gets Rush instead of Charge?^^
If we slow down the meta like that, I would also consider a slight nerf to Token Druid and pirate warrior because that's what will probably come back then, so maybe Deckhand 1/1, maybe Savage Roar to 4?
If they ever change Vargoth, they should make him only pick from spells that were played while he was on the field. This would at least remove Shadow Essence and Mass Ressurection from his pool and sometimes other res options as well. Maybe a bit too much of a nerf, though.
mage go out of control filled the table very quickly. for priest you only need to nerf pen flinger, outside of that i have no problem with oher decks.
As secret mage is perfectly fine in standard, I think it is better to nerf Wild only cards. Back when the deck struggled with both AOE and card draw, it was fine in Wild, but now when both are there, it is too strong.
I just played vs one running Eater of Secrets. Tech cards for mirror matchups is a certain sign a deck needs nerfs...
Eater of Secrets --> 2 mana 1/2 (if secrets, even mage, can be on the board as early as turn 1, why wait 4 turns to play a counter?)
all the weapons that (ex: Aluneth, Dragon Spirit, Skull of the Man'ari) arent intended to attack but have some "passive" effect: from 3 to 1 durability. (why 3 anyways?)
reworked Lifesteal mechanic: you cannot steal excess damage (how can you steal 8 health from a 1/1 ?!)
reworked rez mechanic: if you rez a minion from the dead pool, it gets removed from the dead pool, as it has been rez'ed and is no longer dead. (so priests cant intentionally kill a minion and ressurect 5 copies)
On secret mage the main issue is the lackey that can allow too much of a tempo swing in the early game/board clears vs agro. Tweaking him to 2 mana as suggested will help the metagame. But to be honest this past week in top 100 legends I have seen 0 secret mages.
Raza priest nerf it back to 1 mana like before. This will allow for more interesting reno list that does not rely that much on the hero's power. And I have a golden raza but used it a nice amount already and can be interesting to remake new builds.
Kingsbane is not the issue, nitro boost is. I have been trying other weapons instead of kingsbane just to experiment and scimitar, togwagle pick perdition blade, odd rogue does also quite well winning games at 70-32 legend. Rogue got too much good draw in scholomance and nitroboost took it to the top. No idea what can be nerfed, maybe nitroboost gets standard nerfed. Yes the burst it can do now is crazy good. you can easily do 10 + weapon you had for 3 mana.
Darkglare. If they nerf broom because of standard the deck is hurt a lot. I do not see other realistic nerf that will put it down, due to the other cards being used in standard and still fine there.
Big priest, It is very polarising and annoying match up, but not such a good deck. Even if I hate this deck I do not see any nerf that will not kill it, too fragile.
•As many already said Raza should go back to "your Hero Power costs 1" , this way it still stays a strong minicombo without the oppressivness of "fk you,I drew these 2 random cards so I am obviously the better player so I win"
Also I used to love playing that nerfed version of Razanduin with the deathrattle quest (any nerf to the cost of those cards is most likely inconsequential,they are still going to kill you from full hp)
•on the big priest part idk how strong it ACTUALLY is as my valuewok reno shaman absolutely runs them over but the objectively best way to nerf it (this is NOT for debate, I WILL kill you) is to make it start its resummoning BS a bit later so aggressive decks can finish them off and then buff (yes you heard me right...BUFF) transforming effects so that control/midrange decks can have some breathing room. Now you would have to be careful because aggro decks could start using them as "Better silence" but it can be worked out. An alternative may be a buff to the "summon stuff on the opponent's board" cards . Although better transform effects would also keep stuff like cubelock in check
•Flare getting counterspelled is among the stupidest interactions in gaming history (also small nerfs to secret mage,maybe on the "fireball with a 4/4" guy or on explosive runes...actually hitting its card draw may be a better idea, so the Power stays similar but they now have to think before completely emptying their hand)
•Kingsbane needs a bit less draw to be honest
•"Kill you on turn 4" druid needs to be toned down,my suggestion is a nerf to the "+x +x to all your Minions" stuff
•remove ALL OF THE OTK/infinite/mill/disruption cards + all cards that add more than 1 card to a deck. All these types of cards/decks add nothing to the game, all they do is:
OTK/infinite: create polarizing matchups, worsened by the fact that some are just a coinflip (will discuss later) WHILE also forcing people to play in a way they don't enjoy
Mill: do not let the opponent play...or even DRAW the cards they pur in the deck while also putting him on a clock....FuN aNd InTeRaCtIvE (Oh...also super polarizing matchups Just like the previous ones)
Disruption: create coinflip scenarios of "did I snipe his Key/combo/value card?"
Yes--->nice,I win
No--->sad, I lose
Add >1 card to your deck: I love super long games but fatigue exists for a reason,nobody wants to see CW mirrors with double elysiana...not even me....AND I PLAY (un'goro) QUEST PRIEST AND ODD WARRIOR FOR FK'S SAKE (also fatigue is EASILY the best "end of deck" mechanic ever created)
After this you will have to buff midrange stuff so that control decks don't take over
reworked rez mechanic: if you rez a minion from the dead pool, it gets removed from the dead pool, as it has been rez'ed and is no longer dead. (so priests cant intentionally kill a minion and ressurect 5 copies)
I actually like this a lot. I've never really thought of this before, and I think this is an excellent idea that tones down the power level of this deck without killing it.
You're all just a bunch of crying banshees. I am playing Wild and I am sick of those who ask for nerf this, nerf that. Gee golly, play Standard if you don't have the stomach. Neither Kingsbane is broken, nor Ressurect Priest. We have all the material to counter those decks. Maybe Secret Mage needs some tinkering, but basically that's it. The worst thing is that somehow everyone cries for Raza. Nerf Raza the Chained wah wah. Honestly, the deck isn't nearly as good as it once was. Now, everyone has counters and it's not brainless material.
MAYBE, it's time to delete your super-greedy decks with 4-5 OLD Gods and start playing something else, more viable?
BUT! Since you wish to see a change. DON'T change the mana cost. This will only make the deck a little bit slower. It's already slow, so you don't actually win anything. It's not like Raza was oppressive on turn 5. Mana cost changes (if you look at nerf history) happen for 2 reasons. Either to destroy a broken combo (Aviana, or because this particular card was extremely overpowered, the turn it was played (Spiteful Summoner, Giggling Inventor) DON'T change stats. It's irrelevant. It's not played for stats and it's not like it has Taunt or anything similar. Stats changes happen to cards that can exploit their stats for oppressive board control (Corridor Creeper). DON'T for the love of god IN ANY CASE revert it, so that the hero power will cost (1). It's uncreative and it will simply destroy the archetype. Remember when it happened, the archetype disappeared. Why? Simply because it was not worth it to play a deck that involves around investing resources on 2 particular cards, in order to do mediocre damage.
The only possible change that could actually make the deck harder, without destroying the archetype is Raza the Chained : 5 mana5/5. Battlecry: Your current hero power costs (0) for the rest of the game.
Now players will have to wait for Shadowreaper Anduin, in order to play Raza. Basically Raza will be a dead draw until you have Anduin. Also, players will be faced with the decision, either to play Anduin early on, OR keep him for a good board swipe, OR keep the healing a bit longer. Furthermore, this "combo" will require 2 turns for set-up and 1 for execution. Now, if you are a decent player, you know that sacrificing 2 turns in Wild is suicide. Finally, this change ensures that even with a GODLY HAND, you can't get OTKed before turn 10! That's really slow with Wild Standards!
Boom! There you have it. A viable nerf, that won't destroy the archetype, but it will make it harder to pull off. Eventually the difficulty is increased, which leads to a lower winrate, which results in less people playing the deck.
So, then you may be able to play your pwetty Old Gwad contwol. IF I hwurt your fweewings I am swowy. smh...
You're all just a bunch of crying banshees. I am playing Wild and I am sick of those who ask for nerf this, nerf that. Gee golly, play Standard if you don't have the stomach. Neither Kingsbane is broken, nor Ressurect Priest. We have all the material to counter those decks. Maybe Secret Mage needs some tinkering, but basically that's it. The worst thing is that somehow everyone cries for Raza. Nerf Raza the Chained wah wah. Honestly, the deck isn't nearly as good as it once was. Now, everyone has counters and it's not brainless material.
MAYBE, it's time to delete your super-greedy decks with 4-5 OLD Gods and start playing something else, more viable?
BUT! Since you wish to see a change. DON'T change the mana cost. This will only make the deck a little bit slower. It's already slow, so you don't actually win anything. It's not like Raza was oppressive on turn 5. Mana cost changes (if you look at nerf history) happen for 2 reasons. Either to destroy a broken combo (Aviana, or because this particular card was extremely overpowered, the turn it was played (Spiteful Summoner, Giggling Inventor) DON'T change stats. It's irrelevant. It's not played for stats and it's not like it has Taunt or anything similar. Stats changes happen to cards that can exploit their stats for oppressive board control (Corridor Creeper). DON'T for the love of god IN ANY CASE revert it, so that the hero power will cost (1). It's uncreative and it will simply destroy the archetype. Remember when it happened, the archetype disappeared. Why? Simply because it was not worth it to play a deck that involves around investing resources on 2 particular cards, in order to do mediocre damage.
The only possible change that could actually make the deck harder, without destroying the archetype is Raza the Chained : 5 mana5/5. Battlecry: Your current hero power costs (0) for the rest of the game.
Now players will have to wait for Shadowreaper Anduin, in order to play Raza. Basically Raza will be a dead draw until you have Anduin. Also, players will be faced with the decision, either to play Anduin early on, OR keep him for a good board swipe, OR keep the healing a bit longer. Furthermore, this "combo" will require 2 turns for set-up and 1 for execution. Now, if you are a decent player, you know that sacrificing 2 turns in Wild is suicide. Finally, this change ensures that even with a GODLY HAND, you can't get OTKed before turn 10! That's really slow with Wild Standards!
Boom! There you have it. A viable nerf, that won't destroy the archetype, but it will make it harder to pull off. Eventually the difficulty is increased, which leads to a lower winrate, which results in less people playing the deck.
So, then you may be able to play your pwetty Old Gwad contwol. IF I hwurt your fweewings I am swowy. smh...
It is an interresting change, but I think anything costing 0 mana should require even more setup. Raza priest has actually gotten a LOT of new support since its first versions, so I actually don't think an 1-mana heropower would destroy the archeype. Reverting Anduin to 9 mana is yet another option.
Also, I don't think there is any point to keep an archetype viable at any cost. Old powerhouses get pushed out by even stronger decks all the time, cubelock and even shaman are some recent victims which barely see any play now, I would love to see more traditional midrange decks being more viable in wild, but considering how fast and explosive the BIG decks are these days, it would probably require too many changes.
You're all just a bunch of crying banshees. I am playing Wild and I am sick of those who ask for nerf this, nerf that. Gee golly, play Standard if you don't have the stomach. Neither Kingsbane is broken, nor Ressurect Priest. We have all the material to counter those decks. Maybe Secret Mage needs some tinkering, but basically that's it. The worst thing is that somehow everyone cries for Raza. Nerf Raza the Chained wah wah. Honestly, the deck isn't nearly as good as it once was. Now, everyone has counters and it's not brainless material.
MAYBE, it's time to delete your super-greedy decks with 4-5 OLD Gods and start playing something else, more viable?
BUT! Since you wish to see a change. DON'T change the mana cost. This will only make the deck a little bit slower. It's already slow, so you don't actually win anything. It's not like Raza was oppressive on turn 5. Mana cost changes (if you look at nerf history) happen for 2 reasons. Either to destroy a broken combo (Aviana, or because this particular card was extremely overpowered, the turn it was played (Spiteful Summoner, Giggling Inventor) DON'T change stats. It's irrelevant. It's not played for stats and it's not like it has Taunt or anything similar. Stats changes happen to cards that can exploit their stats for oppressive board control (Corridor Creeper). DON'T for the love of god IN ANY CASE revert it, so that the hero power will cost (1). It's uncreative and it will simply destroy the archetype. Remember when it happened, the archetype disappeared. Why? Simply because it was not worth it to play a deck that involves around investing resources on 2 particular cards, in order to do mediocre damage.
The only possible change that could actually make the deck harder, without destroying the archetype is Raza the Chained : 5 mana5/5. Battlecry: Your current hero power costs (0) for the rest of the game.
Now players will have to wait for Shadowreaper Anduin, in order to play Raza. Basically Raza will be a dead draw until you have Anduin. Also, players will be faced with the decision, either to play Anduin early on, OR keep him for a good board swipe, OR keep the healing a bit longer. Furthermore, this "combo" will require 2 turns for set-up and 1 for execution. Now, if you are a decent player, you know that sacrificing 2 turns in Wild is suicide. Finally, this change ensures that even with a GODLY HAND, you can't get OTKed before turn 10! That's really slow with Wild Standards!
Boom! There you have it. A viable nerf, that won't destroy the archetype, but it will make it harder to pull off. Eventually the difficulty is increased, which leads to a lower winrate, which results in less people playing the deck.
So, then you may be able to play your pwetty Old Gwad contwol. IF I hwurt your fweewings I am swowy. smh...
It is an interresting change, but I think anything costing 0 mana should require even more setup. Raza priest has actually gotten a LOT of new support since its first versions, so I actually don't think an 1-mana heropower would destroy the archeype. Reverting Anduin to 9 mana is yet another option.
Also, I don't think there is any point to keep an archetype viable at any cost. Old powerhouses get pushed out by even stronger decks all the time, cubelock and even shaman are some recent victims which barely see any play now, I would love to see more traditional midrange decks being more viable in wild, but considering how fast and explosive the BIG decks are these days, it would probably require too many changes.
your starting hero power costs 0...
done... no more raza priest...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To live is to suffer, to survive is to find meaning in the suffer!
You're all just a bunch of crying banshees. I am playing Wild and I am sick of those who ask for nerf this, nerf that. Gee golly, play Standard if you don't have the stomach. Neither Kingsbane is broken, nor Ressurect Priest. We have all the material to counter those decks. Maybe Secret Mage needs some tinkering, but basically that's it. The worst thing is that somehow everyone cries for Raza. Nerf Raza the Chained wah wah. Honestly, the deck isn't nearly as good as it once was. Now, everyone has counters and it's not brainless material.
MAYBE, it's time to delete your super-greedy decks with 4-5 OLD Gods and start playing something else, more viable?
alright,so this is actually a fair argument HOWEVER it is also a pretty delicate one.
You say we have ways to deal with most of the "commonly complained about" stuff so let's take a look:
Kingsbane is very strong but we DO have ways to deal with it, heals,clears, weapon removal (weapon steal included) , taunts are relatively common "controlly" cards that can be teched in by reactive decks in order to stand a chance. Other aggressive decks just aim to kill them first and I do think they can since it no longer has lifegain (thanks c'thun). The only real insane part of this deck is the refill/draw/tutor, THAT may be a bit too much but overall...you are right on this one
secret mage is a very similar case to kingsbane but even more powerful and relatively fewer tech cards, the solutions are the same, although as you said this one may be TOO good at what it does and so may be in need of a nerf. My suggestion would be on the card draw, just like kingsbane
Big priest...well it can still highroll you to oblivion like almost no other deck can but good transform effects can go a long way whether you are trying to control him or smorc him down so (again) this one is ok
Raza is a whole other beast tho,technically it IS counterable via grizzled/finnely but the fact that you need 2 cards that are borderline useless in any other matchup to HOPEFULLY counter a single deck is quite stupid, and if you don't get them in time you just get run over.
Yes I AM aware that they can remove other insane hero powers but it is 1: situational,only really relevant in heavy control v control which is very rare given the nature of wild 2: you effectively have 2 less cards in your deck, and that can REALLY cost you depending on your opponent 3: that is simply not fun, disruption in general is just toxic and this is coming from the guy that abuses it in order to survive the BS that is wild OTKs/infinite decks )
are there other ways to deal with razanduin?
well it is very hard to "rat down" or similar so that is too inconsistent to be a good enough answer so...no
can you whitstand the burst? no,just no.....ok maybe that's bit much but still you have to remember that EVERY card he plays comes with 2 dmg and spawn of bullshit gives him at least of 24 dmg in a single turn if he's not an idiot, so, assuming Raza was in the bottom 10 cards and he has 5 other cards in hand (so this is WAY lowballed compared to the average time he will get it) you will have to survive 30 dmg from the cards alone (not counting a possible mind blast/velen or similar) + the 4 extra dmg per card from spawn of bullshit going to a total of a single turn 26 burst (assuming only 2 mana cards are played on the spawn turn) from just 4 cards, so you still will have to power through 22 dmg
And this is not counting the fact that he likely has card generation to deal even more dmg
this MAY look somewhat survivable by stuff like odd warrior, a well armored druid or a reno mage with ice block but you have to remember that 1)raza priest has A LOT of draw so you have less time to "prepare" either by armorstacking or getting the cards you need 2) he can easily tech aganst those 2
another way is.....you can always SMORC them down I guess but this goes into the stupid retarded BS that OTK/infinite/mill players use as an excuse but the fact of the matter is that by doing this you are forcing someone to play in a way he doesn't enjoy and that is just bad design no matter how you look at it
your suggested change IS pretty good I'll give you that but you HEAVILY underestimate the power of a 1 mana anduin hero power, the board control,burst and consistent damage is still surprisingly good (although not nearly AS broken)
overall Wild is supposed to have extremely high powerlevel BUT limits should exist otherwise you end up with OTK decks killing you as fast as aggro decks, resurrect focused stuff resummoning full boards for 4 mana and more gigabroken stuff making the game spiral into an unfun shitfest of "whoever draws his BS first wins" since you made everything "unreactable" because you didn't want to nerf obviously broken stuff
one thing that often goes underestimated is that wild also has the widest card pool BY FAR so one of its strongest points should be variety but if 1 or 2 decks are doing their job better than anything else (e.g. good ol' razanduin for control decks) or if something is SO good that the meta becomes "can you survive him" (e.g. pre nerf big priest, current razanduin, "kill you on turn 4" druid, secret mage) that kinda kills the variety making the game way less fun and more repetitive
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
You can nerf three cards to tone down the power level of prevalent Wild decks. What do you choose?
Raza the Chained - Up to 7 or 8 mana. Makes the card much slower without killing the archetype.
Kingsbane - Up to 2 mana. Honestly not sure why this card is 1 mana anyway.
Cloud Prince - Can only target minions.
I’ve been asking myself for days now why they made Kingsbane 1 mana. But really, I would rather see it go to 2 durability. The swings should be thoughtful and saved for when there are good buffs on it. Rogue has enough weapon tutors to re-equip it reliably but I can’t imagine Blizzard wanted them to be able to pull endless 5+/3 weapons
Another change I would like to see is a change to graveyards. Priest being able to resurrect numerous copies of the same minion is incongruous with the amount of mana invested in getting the minions on the board. One dead Scrapyard Colossus should at most be revived to be the original and its deathrattle.
Explosive Runes - After your opponent plays a minion, deal 5 damage to it. If that kills it, deal 2 damage to the enemy hero.
Voidcaller - Deathrattle: Put a random demon from your hand into the battlefield and silence it.
Kingsbane - Always keeps enchantments. Deathrattle: Shuffle this into your deck and increase its cost by (1).
Raza the Chained - change statline to 4/6; Battlecry: If your deck has no duplicates, your hero power costs (1) this game.
Archmage Vargoth - At the start of your turn, cast a spell youve cast last turn (targets are random).
Runes is too much face damage and has no viable counterplay. Its just a minor nerf, but allows for enemy to mitigate the damage by playing something small.
Voidcaller is just super strong for its cost. Silencing still provides bunch of stats and potential for good Guldan ressurect later or a body to be Cubed, but prevents locking the game early with Voidlords / Enhanced Dreadlords / Malganis... also stops any Doomguard shenanigans.
Agree that Kingsbane should cost more. But increasing the cost slowly the more you play seems better fit "lore-wise".
Shadowreaper hero power is still very good for 1 mana, but it stops any 30 damage OTK nonsense. To compensate for the nerf, changing Raza to 4/6 is a buff (better statline than 5/5, also Shadowreaper doesnt kill it with its battlecry).
Vargoth already has a good statline for a 4 drop. The ability to double up on spells is kinda insane. Especially considering the interactions with ressurects, Shadow Essence and druid Oaken Summons. This way it would need to survive a turn. In most cases this is a big nerf, but it would also enable cool play: turn 3 coin Vargoth, if opponent cant kill it, you get coin again next turn. This change kinda gives me Nat Pagle vibes... who in all honestly should be buffed from 0/4 to a 1/3.
Kingsbane nerf would help, but even aggro rogue with the 4/2 weapon is rough because of the new toxin. New toxin seems too good for 1 mana, I like making it 2 mana or only boost 2 attack to minion, 1 to weapon. Considering oil is +3/+3 and costs 3 more mana aaand is still played, I think it’s fair to say the toxin is too good.
and yes, nerf secret mage plz. Cloud prince, explosive runes, the 0 mana 5/5, etc.
I think raza priest is fine except for the otk crap, so I like either nerfing raza to 1 mana hero power but maybe make it cost 4 as a minion to compensate, or maybe nerf the 4 drop otk combo minion to only activate once a turn?
big priest feels fine to me, but I don’t play decks that it counters so idk.
I don’t think this one necessarily needs a nerfs, but one of the most annoying cards in wild for me is loatheb. So hard to play around and just prevents any reaction to the board state and super annoying when they can spam the board with stuff like in dark glare.
Raza the Chained Reintroduce the nerf making the heropower 1 mana instead of 0. We have seen that deck enough already.
Shadow Essence to 7 mana. Palm reading breaks this card, and I doubt if anyone will really mis big priest if it ends up not being viable.
Kabal Lackey To 2 mana. With the more powerful secrets, it can't stay on 1
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Only 3 cards?...
Kabal Lackey should go to 2 mana, Crystal Runner to 7 or "can't be reduced below 1", Kirin Tor Mage to 3/3, Cloud Prince to 4 damage or can only hit minions, maybe Runes to 5 damage...
Anduin should go to 9 mana (much more helpful than Raza to 7 because this would actually delay the combo), alternatively but maybe a bit too much: Spawn of Shadows goes to only deal 3 damage per hero power, Palm Reading could be changed to "Reduce the cost of 1, maybe 2 random Spells in your hand" if you want to target both Priest decks (res a bit more in that case).
Regarding Rogue, I would actually nerf Oil by one mana and not the other cards. Maybe Kingsbane to 1/2 or even 0/3. Or as a meme suggestion, Deckhand gets Rush instead of Charge?^^
If we slow down the meta like that, I would also consider a slight nerf to Token Druid and pirate warrior because that's what will probably come back then, so maybe Deckhand 1/1, maybe Savage Roar to 4?
If they ever change Vargoth, they should make him only pick from spells that were played while he was on the field. This would at least remove Shadow Essence and Mass Ressurection from his pool and sometimes other res options as well. Maybe a bit too much of a nerf, though.
These are actually quite respectable.
Crystal Runner to 7
occult conjurer to 5
Riged faire game draw to 2 cards
mage go out of control filled the table very quickly. for priest you only need to nerf pen flinger, outside of that i have no problem with oher decks.
As secret mage is perfectly fine in standard, I think it is better to nerf Wild only cards. Back when the deck struggled with both AOE and card draw, it was fine in Wild, but now when both are there, it is too strong.
I just played vs one running Eater of Secrets. Tech cards for mirror matchups is a certain sign a deck needs nerfs...
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Lol, so you want rigged faire game to be a worse AI...?
Raza the Chained --> your starting hero power costs (0)
Explosive Runes --> after your opponent plays a minion, destroy it
Kingsbane --> 2 durability, 2 mana
Palm Reading --> 2 mana, reduce the cost of a random spell in your hand by 2
Voidcaller --> 6 mana
Rigged Faire Game --> if your hero took damage, draw 3
Eater of Secrets --> 2 mana 1/2 (if secrets, even mage, can be on the board as early as turn 1, why wait 4 turns to play a counter?)
all the weapons that (ex: Aluneth, Dragon Spirit, Skull of the Man'ari) arent intended to attack but have some "passive" effect: from 3 to 1 durability. (why 3 anyways?)
Flare --> can no longer get Counterspelled
reworked Lifesteal mechanic: you cannot steal excess damage (how can you steal 8 health from a 1/1 ?!)
reworked rez mechanic: if you rez a minion from the dead pool, it gets removed from the dead pool, as it has been rez'ed and is no longer dead. (so priests cant intentionally kill a minion and ressurect 5 copies)
Doign well in wild this past year.
On secret mage the main issue is the lackey that can allow too much of a tempo swing in the early game/board clears vs agro. Tweaking him to 2 mana as suggested will help the metagame. But to be honest this past week in top 100 legends I have seen 0 secret mages.
Raza priest nerf it back to 1 mana like before. This will allow for more interesting reno list that does not rely that much on the hero's power. And I have a golden raza but used it a nice amount already and can be interesting to remake new builds.
Kingsbane is not the issue, nitro boost is. I have been trying other weapons instead of kingsbane just to experiment and scimitar, togwagle pick perdition blade, odd rogue does also quite well winning games at 70-32 legend. Rogue got too much good draw in scholomance and nitroboost took it to the top. No idea what can be nerfed, maybe nitroboost gets standard nerfed. Yes the burst it can do now is crazy good. you can easily do 10 + weapon you had for 3 mana.
Darkglare. If they nerf broom because of standard the deck is hurt a lot. I do not see other realistic nerf that will put it down, due to the other cards being used in standard and still fine there.
Big priest, It is very polarising and annoying match up, but not such a good deck. Even if I hate this deck I do not see any nerf that will not kill it, too fragile.
Few things
•As many already said Raza should go back to "your Hero Power costs 1" , this way it still stays a strong minicombo without the oppressivness of "fk you,I drew these 2 random cards so I am obviously the better player so I win"
Also I used to love playing that nerfed version of Razanduin with the deathrattle quest (any nerf to the cost of those cards is most likely inconsequential,they are still going to kill you from full hp)
•on the big priest part idk how strong it ACTUALLY is as my valuewok reno shaman absolutely runs them over but the objectively best way to nerf it (this is NOT for debate, I WILL kill you) is to make it start its resummoning BS a bit later so aggressive decks can finish them off and then buff (yes you heard me right...BUFF) transforming effects so that control/midrange decks can have some breathing room. Now you would have to be careful because aggro decks could start using them as "Better silence" but it can be worked out. An alternative may be a buff to the "summon stuff on the opponent's board" cards . Although better transform effects would also keep stuff like cubelock in check
•Flare getting counterspelled is among the stupidest interactions in gaming history (also small nerfs to secret mage,maybe on the "fireball with a 4/4" guy or on explosive runes...actually hitting its card draw may be a better idea, so the Power stays similar but they now have to think before completely emptying their hand)
•Kingsbane needs a bit less draw to be honest
•"Kill you on turn 4" druid needs to be toned down,my suggestion is a nerf to the "+x +x to all your Minions" stuff
•remove ALL OF THE OTK/infinite/mill/disruption cards + all cards that add more than 1 card to a deck. All these types of cards/decks add nothing to the game, all they do is:
OTK/infinite: create polarizing matchups, worsened by the fact that some are just a coinflip (will discuss later) WHILE also forcing people to play in a way they don't enjoy
Mill: do not let the opponent play...or even DRAW the cards they pur in the deck while also putting him on a clock....FuN aNd InTeRaCtIvE (Oh...also super polarizing matchups Just like the previous ones)
Disruption: create coinflip scenarios of "did I snipe his Key/combo/value card?"
Yes--->nice,I win
No--->sad, I lose
Add >1 card to your deck: I love super long games but fatigue exists for a reason,nobody wants to see CW mirrors with double elysiana...not even me....AND I PLAY (un'goro) QUEST PRIEST AND ODD WARRIOR FOR FK'S SAKE (also fatigue is EASILY the best "end of deck" mechanic ever created)
After this you will have to buff midrange stuff so that control decks don't take over
I actually like this a lot. I've never really thought of this before, and I think this is an excellent idea that tones down the power level of this deck without killing it.
maybe like delete priest from wild
You're all just a bunch of crying banshees. I am playing Wild and I am sick of those who ask for nerf this, nerf that. Gee golly, play Standard if you don't have the stomach. Neither Kingsbane is broken, nor Ressurect Priest. We have all the material to counter those decks. Maybe Secret Mage needs some tinkering, but basically that's it. The worst thing is that somehow everyone cries for Raza. Nerf Raza the Chained wah wah. Honestly, the deck isn't nearly as good as it once was. Now, everyone has counters and it's not brainless material.
MAYBE, it's time to delete your super-greedy decks with 4-5 OLD Gods and start playing something else, more viable?
BUT! Since you wish to see a change.
DON'T change the mana cost. This will only make the deck a little bit slower. It's already slow, so you don't actually win anything. It's not like Raza was oppressive on turn 5. Mana cost changes (if you look at nerf history) happen for 2 reasons. Either to destroy a broken combo (Aviana, or because this particular card was extremely overpowered, the turn it was played (Spiteful Summoner, Giggling Inventor)
DON'T change stats. It's irrelevant. It's not played for stats and it's not like it has Taunt or anything similar. Stats changes happen to cards that can exploit their stats for oppressive board control (Corridor Creeper).
DON'T for the love of god IN ANY CASE revert it, so that the hero power will cost (1). It's uncreative and it will simply destroy the archetype. Remember when it happened, the archetype disappeared. Why? Simply because it was not worth it to play a deck that involves around investing resources on 2 particular cards, in order to do mediocre damage.
The only possible change that could actually make the deck harder, without destroying the archetype is
Raza the Chained : 5 mana 5/5. Battlecry: Your current hero power costs (0) for the rest of the game.
Now players will have to wait for Shadowreaper Anduin, in order to play Raza. Basically Raza will be a dead draw until you have Anduin. Also, players will be faced with the decision, either to play Anduin early on, OR keep him for a good board swipe, OR keep the healing a bit longer. Furthermore, this "combo" will require 2 turns for set-up and 1 for execution. Now, if you are a decent player, you know that sacrificing 2 turns in Wild is suicide. Finally, this change ensures that even with a GODLY HAND, you can't get OTKed before turn 10! That's really slow with Wild Standards!
Boom! There you have it. A viable nerf, that won't destroy the archetype, but it will make it harder to pull off. Eventually the difficulty is increased, which leads to a lower winrate, which results in less people playing the deck.
So, then you may be able to play your pwetty Old Gwad contwol. IF I hwurt your fweewings I am swowy. smh...
Edit: Orthography
It is an interresting change, but I think anything costing 0 mana should require even more setup. Raza priest has actually gotten a LOT of new support since its first versions, so I actually don't think an 1-mana heropower would destroy the archeype. Reverting Anduin to 9 mana is yet another option.
Also, I don't think there is any point to keep an archetype viable at any cost. Old powerhouses get pushed out by even stronger decks all the time, cubelock and even shaman are some recent victims which barely see any play now, I would love to see more traditional midrange decks being more viable in wild, but considering how fast and explosive the BIG decks are these days, it would probably require too many changes.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
your starting hero power costs 0...
done... no more raza priest...
To live is to suffer, to survive is to find meaning in the suffer!
Raza the chained : reduce the cost of your hero power by 1 for rest of the game.(stacks )
Counterspel and explosive runes reworked into new secrets.
Cloudprince deal 2 dmg for each secret you control.
Or cloud prince 10 mana 4/4 deal 4 dmg costs 2 less for each friendly secret that was revealed.
Kanrathed ebonlocke first demon costs 2 less each turn.
Darkglare 4 mana 3/4 your hero power costs 0 and can be used 3 times each turn.
alright,so this is actually a fair argument HOWEVER it is also a pretty delicate one.
You say we have ways to deal with most of the "commonly complained about" stuff so let's take a look:
Yes I AM aware that they can remove other insane hero powers but it is 1: situational,only really relevant in heavy control v control which is very rare given the nature of wild 2: you effectively have 2 less cards in your deck, and that can REALLY cost you depending on your opponent 3: that is simply not fun, disruption in general is just toxic and this is coming from the guy that abuses it in order to survive the BS that is wild OTKs/infinite decks )
are there other ways to deal with razanduin?
well it is very hard to "rat down" or similar so that is too inconsistent to be a good enough answer so...no
can you whitstand the burst? no,just no.....ok maybe that's bit much but still you have to remember that EVERY card he plays comes with 2 dmg and spawn of bullshit gives him at least of 24 dmg in a single turn if he's not an idiot, so, assuming Raza was in the bottom 10 cards and he has 5 other cards in hand (so this is WAY lowballed compared to the average time he will get it) you will have to survive 30 dmg from the cards alone (not counting a possible mind blast/velen or similar) + the 4 extra dmg per card from spawn of bullshit going to a total of a single turn 26 burst (assuming only 2 mana cards are played on the spawn turn) from just 4 cards, so you still will have to power through 22 dmg
And this is not counting the fact that he likely has card generation to deal even more dmg
this MAY look somewhat survivable by stuff like odd warrior, a well armored druid or a reno mage with ice block but you have to remember that 1)raza priest has A LOT of draw so you have less time to "prepare" either by armorstacking or getting the cards you need 2) he can easily tech aganst those 2
another way is.....you can always SMORC them down I guess but this goes into the stupid retarded BS that OTK/infinite/mill players use as an excuse but the fact of the matter is that by doing this you are forcing someone to play in a way he doesn't enjoy and that is just bad design no matter how you look at it
your suggested change IS pretty good I'll give you that but you HEAVILY underestimate the power of a 1 mana anduin hero power, the board control,burst and consistent damage is still surprisingly good (although not nearly AS broken)
overall Wild is supposed to have extremely high powerlevel BUT limits should exist otherwise you end up with OTK decks killing you as fast as aggro decks, resurrect focused stuff resummoning full boards for 4 mana and more gigabroken stuff making the game spiral into an unfun shitfest of "whoever draws his BS first wins" since you made everything "unreactable" because you didn't want to nerf obviously broken stuff
one thing that often goes underestimated is that wild also has the widest card pool BY FAR so one of its strongest points should be variety but if 1 or 2 decks are doing their job better than anything else (e.g. good ol' razanduin for control decks) or if something is SO good that the meta becomes "can you survive him" (e.g. pre nerf big priest, current razanduin, "kill you on turn 4" druid, secret mage) that kinda kills the variety making the game way less fun and more repetitive