<pre>So I've been playing hearthstone for almost three years now and I've enjoyed it, mostly. I am currently diamond 5 in the wild ladder, and got here playing theif rogue and pure libram paladin which are two decks I enjoy very much along some other non meta deck. But recently I just can't find the joy of playing this game because everything just feels so unbalanced.
-You have mech paladins getting 20/20 worth of stat by turn 3 which in my opinion is absolute horseshit. How are you suppose to play against that unless you're a warlock (Plague of Flames) or priest (their entire fucking kit). -You have secret mage which basically don't let you play the game. You wanna play spells? Nope Counterspell. You wanna play minions? Nope Explosive Trap. You wanna develop a board? Nope Arcane Flakmage and Flame Ward. Now normally those cards would be a minor nuisance at worst. But the fact that mages can cheat them out with Kirin Tor Mage while developing a fairly statted board is just so cancerous not to mention the targettable damage they have with Cloud Prince and Medivh's Valet, and it just feels so bad seeing your opponent getting twelve extra damage from killing Cloud Prince because of Duplicate or 10/10 worth of stat for 0 mana from killing Kabal Crystal Runner. And the worst thing is that secret mage literally never run out of gas with Ancient Mysteries, Arcanologist, and Aluneth. -Quest mage literally beats every control deck so if you're playing one and you happen to face them you might as well concede because why even bother play the game. You cheat out a bunch of spells with Sorcerer's Apprentice and if they play a Flamewaker with it you might as well call it a night because those two cards combined are absolute ridiculous. Unless you are playing a extreamly aggro deck or cheating out Voidlord with warlock you are going to be butt fucked by turn 7 from 4 8/8 giants. -Warlock is another class that's giving me a massive headache. Mecha'thun warlock pretty much don't play the game with you, they just draw a bunch of cards and otk you in by turn 10. They have all these tools like Plague of Flames or Dark Skies to make sure you can't develop a board and it's fustrating how easy it is for them to remove anything minion you play. -Cubelock is another thing that I just despise. If you are able to cheat out Voidlord and Mal'Ganis with Voidcalleror Skull of the Man'ari you just instant win most most games. And even if they manage to clear you +2/+2 demon army you just play Bloodreaver Gul'dan which you can get two copies of through Expired Merchant and you get everything back along with a hero power that does three damage and heals for three. Literally nothing that clear those boards unless you have a Twisting Nether which clears the first part or a Plague of Death. -I fucking hate playing against priest, it is probably my least favorite class to play and play against. Literally nothing you do matters against this class, they remove any minion you play with Forbidden Words, Shadow Word: Pain, and Shadow Word: Death. And their aoe removal is also just absolute disgusting. You have Mass Hysteria, Psychic Scream and Plague of Death. Like I'm over here playing chess while they're fucking over there watching keeping up with the kardashians and play one card per turn and still win. And you have Reno priest which is auto win if you draw Raza the Chained and Shadowreaper Anduin which is just so fustrating because that win condition literally takes no skill at all. -Demon hunter is just a class of bullshit. We all know how fucked up the class is. They draw a fuck ton of cards do a fuck ton of damage and heal a fuck ton. And if they cast Mana Burn around turn 4 with them having a big board you're pretty much fucked.
I know this is a huge rant list, but these things just annoys me so much to the point where I've basically stopped playing wild and moved to arena. If we can nerf some of these cards like changing Shadowreaper Anduin's hero power to do 1 damage with refresh. Or something like Mechwarper not making mechs cost 0 it can make the game more enjoyable. These games are starting to feels like a massive stomp, and just so one sided, that it's really making me lose my marbles. Maybe I'm the only one that feels this way about the state of wild because I'm playing off meta decks but these games just feels so one sided and unfun for me. But I really just don't find enjoyment playing any of those meta decks because they just pretty much toss your opponent out of the playing field.</pre>
That feeling when Secret Mage plays Explosive Trap is real.
Yes he made a mistake, I'm sure you understood what card he was talking about.
In response to the OP:
Yes the power level of wild is extremely high. I personally enjoy wild because I like to play both cubelock (which you mentioned) and even shaman (which you did not). If you don't enjoy playing any of the 'meta decks' and aren't having fun losing with off meta decks, perhaps try to find some middle ground. However, it is also possible that you would enjoy one or several of these meta decks if you tried playing them. As I said, cubelock and even shaman are right up my alley, but I never have any fun playing secret mage.
My advice is to find a good deck to play that you enjoy. Libram paladin simply doesn't cut it. The pure power level difference between libram paladin and say quest mage is immense, and you simply won't win many games playing a bad deck against good ones.
This is the saltiest thread I have seen in quite some time. Wild is pretty balanced, you need to stop wasting time complaining. If you hate Priest, play Quest Mage or Mecha'thun Warlock, if you hate Quest Mage play Demon Hunter and so on. If you hate everything then don't play.
abolutely agreed, moved to arena as well, got sick of getting to diamond 1, 3 stars just to fall back to diamond 3 again and again, almost everything depends on just what you queue into (not to mention, every second game is against odd demon hunter)
you play jade and queue into cube/mechatun? gg
you play cube and queue into odd dh? gg
you play odd dh and queue into raza/odd warrior? gg (not really cuz odd dh is bullshit)
you play any control deck and queue into quest mage? gg
you play quest mage and queue into any aggro deck? gg
you play secret mage and queue into odd warrior? gg
you play odd warrior and queue into jade? gg
this obviously isn't always the case, but you have to get really lucky to win these matchups and that's not something one can really rely on
I might as well just drop some suggestions for nerfs I feel would make wild a much better format
demon hunter:
consume magic - from 1 mana silence an enemy minion to 2 mana silence a minion (yes, priest has silence for 0 but it is intended to be used as a defensive tool, for a class such as dh which has insane offensive potential, 2 mana seems like a fair cost)
glaivebound adept - from 6/4 deal 4 to 5/4 deal 3 (this might be too much, one of this could be enough)
altruis - from deal 1 to all enemies to deal 1 to all enemy minions (duh)
warglaives of azzinoth - from your hero may attack again to your hero may attack again with this (small but fair adjustment)
druid:
jade idol - from 1 mana to 2 mana (this card will always be busted even if druid sees no play)
spreading plague - from 6 mana to 7 mana (this might just be one of, if not the best defensive tools in the game)
mage:
evocation - from 1 mana to 2 mana (duh)
time warp (open the waygate) - from 5 mana to 8 mana (can't be played alongside every other card from the mages hand + no more vargoth bullshit)
ray of frost - from 1 mana to 2 mana (degenerate and one of the least fun cards to play against)
counterspell - remove it from the game (degenerate and one of the least fun cards to play against)
explosive runes - from deal 6 to deal 5 (small but fair)
flame ward -from deal 3 to deal 2 (not that small but fair)
ice block - remove it from the game (degenerate and one of the least fun cards to play against, hmm theres a patern...)
flakmage - from 3/2 deal 2 to 2/2 deal 1 (much more fair and would actually require managing resources)
mana cyclone - from 2 mana to 3 mana (duh)
sorcerers apprentice -from your spells cost 1 less to your spells cost 1 less but not less than 1 (this might kill the card forever, a stat adjustment could be fine too)
cloud prince - from deal 6 to deal 4 (would still be good)
cabal crystal runner - from costs 2 less to costs 1 less (not braindead anymore)
reno the relicologist - from deal 10 to deal 8 (one might still have a chance to come back after it was played on curve)
paladin:
crystology - from 1 mana to 2 mana (would force mech pladins to make more decisions)
divine favor - from 3 mana to 5 mana (5 mana draw 10 seems a lot more reasonable)
priest:
raza - from your hero power costs 0 to your current hero power costs 0 (so it would have to be played after anduin and give the oponent a chance to rat it out)
shaman:
devolve - overload 1 (this is one of the best cards ever created and would still probably be broken)
thing from below - from 5/5 to 4/5 (0 mana stuff ain't fine)
warlock:
plague of flames - from 1 mana to 2 mana (this is another one of the best cards ever created, +1 mana would make it a lot less flexible)
defile - from 2 mana to 3 mana (feels much better this way, also sad evenlock noises...)
dark skies - from repeat for each card in your hand to every other card (just 1 less damage)
voidcaller - from 3/4 to 1/5 (could still come down on 4 but wouldn't be able to kill almost anything and would be a much worse demon to resumon with guldan)
neutral:
patches - from 1 mana to 2 mana (would be much more punishing to draw it)
zephrys - from 3/2 to 0/1 (this is one of the stupidest cards ever created imo, an answer for almost anything with premium stats)
mechwarper - from 2/3 to 2/2 (duh)
bad luck albatross - from 4 mana 4/3 to 2 mana 1/1 (this is the only one here that might even be considered a buff, but this card is just way too valuable in wild to cost so much)
vargoth - from 2/6 to 2/4 (retardation)
reno jackson - from 4/6 to 3/4 (one of the best cards in the game, increasing its cost would be a really bad idea but no way it is fine like this)
dragonqueen - from 2 random dragons to 1 (free cards duh)
i know no one cares about these but i felt like writing it down and at least i will be able to find this somewhere on the internet later
Yah I agree. It's kind of a fuck fest right now. Just a lot of non-interactive, extremely busted interactions and cards, that amount to an experience that feels like nothing you do really matters. The speed and survivability of combo decks is actually ridiculous. Control pretty much has no place in the meta, which is a shame. Speaking of Libram Paladin, here's the deck I've been using and I think you'd like it: https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1346663-libram-paladin-17-2-edition.
You guys complaining about certain Wild cards affecting the Wild meta seem to be missing something. These cards are from different Standard generations/years/rotations. In their Standard run, they were probably good but they were all alone or lacked the proper support to be God tier. In Wild, you have the cream of the crop in terms of picks and can pull from every card ever made.
Telling people not to put the best of the best across different years of HS into their decks because they make you cry salty tears is not realistic. People want to win in the Diamond ranks (any?). It's like asking the best cell phone company in the world not to put their best CPU/GPU/display/<insert tech> because it's not fair for the others.
You really need to adapt and adjust. When you get close to rank plateaus you are seeking, be a lemming and go with the flow. Play the OP stuff or atleast find something in the middle (as was suggested) and play closer to meta. Once you hit the next plateau, play your fun deck.
Asking for nerfs for cards in Wild, especially on the level like a previous poster, is just not economical for Blizzard too(have to refund you dust for nerfs). Say your peace (as you have done) and move on. Adapt....or leave Wild.
For the record, I try to stay away from Meta decks too. I got to Diamond 10 or so in Standard and switched to Wild for the rest of the month. I'm only somewhere in Silver (didnt get many bonus stars in Wild as this is the first time Im doing this) playing Deathrattle Priest and Discard Lock. I know it's not the same level as those complaining and maybe I'll be in the same boat complaining about the same decks as described once/if I get higher. I have yet to see them though. I guess that's Pleb ranks for ya.
Just cheer up and dont take things too seriously. If you are going to complain and want your voice heard, atleast do it on the Blizz forums. Im sure they check these forums too but the proper channels may help make your voice louder.
Don't expect to win when not playing a meta deck. That's pretty much all I have to say. I kinda stopped playing comp because I play against the same four decks every game.
First off, there is a play mode specifically made for bad decks; Casual. Try it, there's a lot of fun to be had over there.
When it comes to anti-fun decks on ladder, I don't agree with all the ones you listed. The only decks I think don't belong in this game are completely un-interactive single player decks. This would be Quest Mage, Mecha-thun Lock, Spell Druid etc. These decks don't have plans to ever win the board and push face damage, practically going against the core mechanics of hearthstone.
Secret mage is pretty simple to beat for many decks, when you know how much burst they have and what secrets are likely (use Decktracker).
I do agree that Counterspell should be removed from the game though. Click spoiler for rant
It's really bad design because it prevents interaction in a non-strategic way. Having the secret against big spell mage or a similar druid that relies on 5+ mana spells, it's a free win, but it can be countered by the Coin and any 1 mana spell the opponent doesn't care about. Counterspell to me is the least fun and interesting card in the game, and when someone get's this randomly, it's complete cancer. The card is a plague, both on ladder and in random fun matches vs friends, where it just wastes everyone's time. Don't rotate it out Blizzard, remove it from the goddamn game!
Personally i see more variety in wild, with a lot of tier 2-3 decks doing fine even against the top contender.
Some of those decks are not so represented in the meta, when i see a druid it is most of the time pirate druid not jade. I did not saw a mechpaladin in over a week, etc.
in legend 50-250 i have seen several times off meta decks doing well, a taunt druid, a mech hunter, deathrattle hunter, highlander mage with no quest, burn priest. I personally play murloc paladin without scales, and some run it with the scales combo and got to legend 80 at a moment, now at 260.
There is strong deck, but with a large pool of cards you can make so many decks that are still viable. Meme decks can work because you have so many cards. I think standard is muuch worse because you ahve so few strong cards..
Gotta admit - I know very little about Wild at the moment (but I am gonna try climbing next season). However something in your post felt wrong even to me, so I jumped to last vicioussyndicate report and... yeah I was right. I never heard about the two decks you mentioned being any good - because they are not.
Sorry, but Wild is expected to have a significantly high power level. Crazy stuff is meant to happen there.
You listed two decks - Rogue and Libram Paladin. Rogues are on absolute bottom in the Wild, since some time - even I know this, not playing much Wild. Looking at the meta report - yes, it's the bottom class. As For Libram Paladin I was surprised it even is a thing. And once again, it seems I was right, because it is not. Not even listed as a playable deck in Wild.
I don't want to sound like someone who accepted the fact the game is unbalanced, but what did you expect? You mention two gimmick, fun decks and are surprised you don't win? In what card game it is even a thing to take a tier 5 deck (or even tier 6-7, because tier 5 is simply "all decks we don't classify, because they are bad", so we don't know how your decks compare to other tier 5s) and expect a consistent winning?
Now let's not look at this in a vacuum and add some context - we are talking about the Wild. So your opponents are meant to do a crazy shit. You said 20/20 worth of stats turn 3 (not sure if it's a thing, but I can see that) - so it is even much more hostile meta than others. If your deck is supposed to perform, you have to consistently out broken plays. Therefore a gap in viability between the best deck and bad decks is going to be bigger than in most metas.
On top of that you yourself have listed few decks - this means there is already some variety in the meta. This is more than you can get on Standard ladder honestly.
To sum it up:
1. You don't expect to win with tier 5 decks vs tier 1 decks.
2. Especially in Wild.
3. Pick one of MANY viable decks, since the mode seems to offer quite some to choose from.
4. In no card game your favorite deck is going to be winning, unless it so happens that your favorite deck is a high tier (what is rare I'd assume).
abolutely agreed, moved to arena as well, got sick of getting to diamond 1, 3 stars just to fall back to diamond 3 again and again, almost everything depends on just what you queue into (not to mention, every second game is against odd demon hunter)
you play jade and queue into cube/mechatun? gg
you play cube and queue into odd dh? gg
you play odd dh and queue into raza/odd warrior? gg (not really cuz odd dh is bullshit)
you play any control deck and queue into quest mage? gg
you play quest mage and queue into any aggro deck? gg
you play secret mage and queue into odd warrior? gg
you play odd warrior and queue into jade? gg
this obviously isn't always the case, but you have to get really lucky to win these matchups and that's not something one can really rely on
I might as well just drop some suggestions for nerfs I feel would make wild a much better format
demon hunter:
consume magic - from 1 mana silence an enemy minion to 2 mana silence a minion (yes, priest has silence for 0 but it is intended to be used as a defensive tool, for a class such as dh which has insane offensive potential, 2 mana seems like a fair cost)
glaivebound adept - from 6/4 deal 4 to 5/4 deal 3 (this might be too much, one of this could be enough)
altruis - from deal 1 to all enemies to deal 1 to all enemy minions (duh)
warglaives of azzinoth - from your hero may attack again to your hero may attack again with this (small but fair adjustment)
druid:
jade idol - from 1 mana to 2 mana (this card will always be busted even if druid sees no play)
spreading plague - from 6 mana to 7 mana (this might just be one of, if not the best defensive tools in the game)
mage:
evocation - from 1 mana to 2 mana (duh)
time warp (open the waygate) - from 5 mana to 8 mana (can't be played alongside every other card from the mages hand + no more vargoth bullshit)
ray of frost - from 1 mana to 2 mana (degenerate and one of the least fun cards to play against)
counterspell - remove it from the game (degenerate and one of the least fun cards to play against)
explosive runes - from deal 6 to deal 5 (small but fair)
flame ward -from deal 3 to deal 2 (not that small but fair)
ice block - remove it from the game (degenerate and one of the least fun cards to play against, hmm theres a patern...)
flakmage - from 3/2 deal 2 to 2/2 deal 1 (much more fair and would actually require managing resources)
mana cyclone - from 2 mana to 3 mana (duh)
sorcerers apprentice -from your spells cost 1 less to your spells cost 1 less but not less than 1 (this might kill the card forever, a stat adjustment could be fine too)
cloud prince - from deal 6 to deal 4 (would still be good)
cabal crystal runner - from costs 2 less to costs 1 less (not braindead anymore)
reno the relicologist - from deal 10 to deal 8 (one might still have a chance to come back after it was played on curve)
paladin:
crystology - from 1 mana to 2 mana (would force mech pladins to make more decisions)
divine favor - from 3 mana to 5 mana (5 mana draw 10 seems a lot more reasonable)
priest:
raza - from your hero power costs 0 to your current hero power costs 0 (so it would have to be played after anduin and give the oponent a chance to rat it out)
shaman:
devolve - overload 1 (this is one of the best cards ever created and would still probably be broken)
thing from below - from 5/5 to 4/5 (0 mana stuff ain't fine)
warlock:
plague of flames - from 1 mana to 2 mana (this is another one of the best cards ever created, +1 mana would make it a lot less flexible)
defile - from 2 mana to 3 mana (feels much better this way, also sad evenlock noises...)
dark skies - from repeat for each card in your hand to every other card (just 1 less damage)
voidcaller - from 3/4 to 1/5 (could still come down on 4 but wouldn't be able to kill almost anything and would be a much worse demon to resumon with guldan)
neutral:
patches - from 1 mana to 2 mana (would be much more punishing to draw it)
zephrys - from 3/2 to 0/1 (this is one of the stupidest cards ever created imo, an answer for almost anything with premium stats)
mechwarper - from 2/3 to 2/2 (duh)
bad luck albatross - from 4 mana 4/3 to 2 mana 1/1 (this is the only one here that might even be considered a buff, but this card is just way too valuable in wild to cost so much)
vargoth - from 2/6 to 2/4 (retardation)
reno jackson - from 4/6 to 3/4 (one of the best cards in the game, increasing its cost would be a really bad idea but no way it is fine like this)
dragonqueen - from 2 random dragons to 1 (free cards duh)
i know no one cares about these but i felt like writing it down and at least i will be able to find this somewhere on the internet later
Mage changes that you proposed are fair from wild point of view, but if you look at standard, Mage is in a horrible state right now and nerfing most of their cards to the ground would just kill the class entirely, probably for the whole year, and even then Blizzard would just have to give them something amazing to make them equal to other classes. The reason is that many cards that are broken in wild, are mediocre in standard, so I think they should only nerf wild cards here, like Open the Waygate, Kabal Crystal Runner, Aluneth or Explosive Runes.
The thing is all the people wanting to nerf the current wild meta decks into oblivion miss on how many sleeper cards there are in Wild. If you replace the current "broken" stuff, other broken stuff will follow soon after.
Clever buffs are way better to balance Wild in the long run. Buff certain cards whenever a class starts to lack the tools to compete.
I think the current Wild Meta isn't the best but it is far from the worst. Demon Hunter just feels dull, the class is perfectly fine in Wild and possibly even weak after the new nerfs but it feels really dull. It looks flashy but plays out like a GvG curvestone deck.
Primes are also just moderately powerful, all in all this expansion is kinda weak which is weird considering how much it needed to be nerfed for Standard. It is definitely the weakest expansion since the Grand Tournament.
Wild is better now than it was even a short time ago when Snip Snap Warlock was utterly disgusting.
I hit legend this month using Murloc Paladin. I was pretty sick of all the OP crap I saw out there - Priest, DH and Mage in particular - but I sort of accept it's inevitable in Wild.
At a certain point this game is going to need a complete reboot. Wild is just the ultimate dumping ground. Too many cards, too many insane interactions. You can't fix it.
I'd prefer Hearthstone 2.0, where they start over again with a completely different set of basic and classic cards for each class.
I don't know what wild you're playing, but Hunter sucks, Pirate Warrior kills you by turn 4, and Reno Priest is the best deck (which also kills you way earlier than turn 40).
-You have mech paladins getting 20/20 worth of stat by turn 3 which in my opinion is absolute horseshit. How are you suppose to play against that unless you're a warlock (Plague of Flames) or priest (their entire fucking kit).
-You have secret mage which basically don't let you play the game. You wanna play spells? Nope Counterspell. You wanna play minions? Nope Explosive Trap. You wanna develop a board? Nope Arcane Flakmage and Flame Ward. Now normally those cards would be a minor nuisance at worst. But the fact that mages can cheat them out with Kirin Tor Mage while developing a fairly statted board is just so cancerous not to mention the targettable damage they have with Cloud Prince and Medivh's Valet, and it just feels so bad seeing your opponent getting twelve extra damage from killing Cloud Prince because of Duplicate or 10/10 worth of stat for 0 mana from killing Kabal Crystal Runner. And the worst thing is that secret mage literally never run out of gas with Ancient Mysteries, Arcanologist, and Aluneth.
-Quest mage literally beats every control deck so if you're playing one and you happen to face them you might as well concede because why even bother play the game. You cheat out a bunch of spells with Sorcerer's Apprentice and if they play a Flamewaker with it you might as well call it a night because those two cards combined are absolute ridiculous. Unless you are playing a extreamly aggro deck or cheating out Voidlord with warlock you are going to be butt fucked by turn 7 from 4 8/8 giants.
-Warlock is another class that's giving me a massive headache. Mecha'thun warlock pretty much don't play the game with you, they just draw a bunch of cards and otk you in by turn 10. They have all these tools like Plague of Flames or Dark Skies to make sure you can't develop a board and it's fustrating how easy it is for them to remove anything minion you play.
-Cubelock is another thing that I just despise. If you are able to cheat out Voidlord and Mal'Ganis with Voidcalleror Skull of the Man'ari you just instant win most most games. And even if they manage to clear you +2/+2 demon army you just play Bloodreaver Gul'dan which you can get two copies of through Expired Merchant and you get everything back along with a hero power that does three damage and heals for three. Literally nothing that clear those boards unless you have a Twisting Nether which clears the first part or a Plague of Death.
-I fucking hate playing against priest, it is probably my least favorite class to play and play against. Literally nothing you do matters against this class, they remove any minion you play with Forbidden Words, Shadow Word: Pain, and Shadow Word: Death. And their aoe removal is also just absolute disgusting. You have Mass Hysteria, Psychic Scream and Plague of Death. Like I'm over here playing chess while they're fucking over there watching keeping up with the kardashians and play one card per turn and still win. And you have Reno priest which is auto win if you draw Raza the Chained and Shadowreaper Anduin which is just so fustrating because that win condition literally takes no skill at all.
-Demon hunter is just a class of bullshit. We all know how fucked up the class is. They draw a fuck ton of cards do a fuck ton of damage and heal a fuck ton. And if they cast Mana Burn around turn 4 with them having a big board you're pretty much fucked.
I know this is a huge rant list, but these things just annoys me so much to the point where I've basically stopped playing wild and moved to arena. If we can nerf some of these cards like changing Shadowreaper Anduin's hero power to do 1 damage with refresh. Or something like Mechwarper not making mechs cost 0 it can make the game more enjoyable. These games are starting to feels like a massive stomp, and just so one sided, that it's really making me lose my marbles.
Maybe I'm the only one that feels this way about the state of wild because I'm playing off meta decks but these games just feels so one sided and unfun for me. But I really just don't find enjoyment playing any of those meta decks because they just pretty much toss your opponent out of the playing field.</pre>
That feeling when Secret Mage plays Explosive Trap is real.
Yes he made a mistake, I'm sure you understood what card he was talking about.
In response to the OP:
Yes the power level of wild is extremely high. I personally enjoy wild because I like to play both cubelock (which you mentioned) and even shaman (which you did not). If you don't enjoy playing any of the 'meta decks' and aren't having fun losing with off meta decks, perhaps try to find some middle ground. However, it is also possible that you would enjoy one or several of these meta decks if you tried playing them. As I said, cubelock and even shaman are right up my alley, but I never have any fun playing secret mage.
My advice is to find a good deck to play that you enjoy. Libram paladin simply doesn't cut it. The pure power level difference between libram paladin and say quest mage is immense, and you simply won't win many games playing a bad deck against good ones.
This is the saltiest thread I have seen in quite some time. Wild is pretty balanced, you need to stop wasting time complaining. If you hate Priest, play Quest Mage or Mecha'thun Warlock, if you hate Quest Mage play Demon Hunter and so on. If you hate everything then don't play.
abolutely agreed, moved to arena as well, got sick of getting to diamond 1, 3 stars just to fall back to diamond 3 again and again, almost everything depends on just what you queue into (not to mention, every second game is against odd demon hunter)
you play jade and queue into cube/mechatun? gg
you play cube and queue into odd dh? gg
you play odd dh and queue into raza/odd warrior? gg (not really cuz odd dh is bullshit)
you play any control deck and queue into quest mage? gg
you play quest mage and queue into any aggro deck? gg
you play secret mage and queue into odd warrior? gg
you play odd warrior and queue into jade? gg
this obviously isn't always the case, but you have to get really lucky to win these matchups and that's not something one can really rely on
I might as well just drop some suggestions for nerfs I feel would make wild a much better format
demon hunter:
druid:
mage:
paladin:
priest:
shaman:
warlock:
neutral:
i know no one cares about these but i felt like writing it down and at least i will be able to find this somewhere on the internet later
Yah I agree. It's kind of a fuck fest right now. Just a lot of non-interactive, extremely busted interactions and cards, that amount to an experience that feels like nothing you do really matters. The speed and survivability of combo decks is actually ridiculous. Control pretty much has no place in the meta, which is a shame. Speaking of Libram Paladin, here's the deck I've been using and I think you'd like it: https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1346663-libram-paladin-17-2-edition.
You play off-meta decks against meta decks. You shouldn't complain.
I am sorry but balance does not mean that anything is equally powerful.
If you want to win, play meta decks.
You guys complaining about certain Wild cards affecting the Wild meta seem to be missing something. These cards are from different Standard generations/years/rotations. In their Standard run, they were probably good but they were all alone or lacked the proper support to be God tier. In Wild, you have the cream of the crop in terms of picks and can pull from every card ever made.
Telling people not to put the best of the best across different years of HS into their decks because they make you cry salty tears is not realistic. People want to win in the Diamond ranks (any?). It's like asking the best cell phone company in the world not to put their best CPU/GPU/display/<insert tech> because it's not fair for the others.
You really need to adapt and adjust. When you get close to rank plateaus you are seeking, be a lemming and go with the flow. Play the OP stuff or atleast find something in the middle (as was suggested) and play closer to meta. Once you hit the next plateau, play your fun deck.
Asking for nerfs for cards in Wild, especially on the level like a previous poster, is just not economical for Blizzard too(have to refund you dust for nerfs). Say your peace (as you have done) and move on. Adapt....or leave Wild.
For the record, I try to stay away from Meta decks too. I got to Diamond 10 or so in Standard and switched to Wild for the rest of the month. I'm only somewhere in Silver (didnt get many bonus stars in Wild as this is the first time Im doing this) playing Deathrattle Priest and Discard Lock. I know it's not the same level as those complaining and maybe I'll be in the same boat complaining about the same decks as described once/if I get higher. I have yet to see them though. I guess that's Pleb ranks for ya.
Just cheer up and dont take things too seriously. If you are going to complain and want your voice heard, atleast do it on the Blizz forums. Im sure they check these forums too but the proper channels may help make your voice louder.
Don't expect to win when not playing a meta deck. That's pretty much all I have to say. I kinda stopped playing comp because I play against the same four decks every game.
First off, there is a play mode specifically made for bad decks; Casual. Try it, there's a lot of fun to be had over there.
When it comes to anti-fun decks on ladder, I don't agree with all the ones you listed. The only decks I think don't belong in this game are completely un-interactive single player decks. This would be Quest Mage, Mecha-thun Lock, Spell Druid etc. These decks don't have plans to ever win the board and push face damage, practically going against the core mechanics of hearthstone.
Secret mage is pretty simple to beat for many decks, when you know how much burst they have and what secrets are likely (use Decktracker).
I do agree that Counterspell should be removed from the game though. Click spoiler for rant
It's really bad design because it prevents interaction in a non-strategic way. Having the secret against big spell mage or a similar druid that relies on 5+ mana spells, it's a free win, but it can be countered by the Coin and any 1 mana spell the opponent doesn't care about. Counterspell to me is the least fun and interesting card in the game, and when someone get's this randomly, it's complete cancer. The card is a plague, both on ladder and in random fun matches vs friends, where it just wastes everyone's time. Don't rotate it out Blizzard, remove it from the goddamn game!
Tickatus isn't fun or interactive
Personally i see more variety in wild, with a lot of tier 2-3 decks doing fine even against the top contender.
Some of those decks are not so represented in the meta, when i see a druid it is most of the time pirate druid not jade. I did not saw a mechpaladin in over a week, etc.
in legend 50-250 i have seen several times off meta decks doing well, a taunt druid, a mech hunter, deathrattle hunter, highlander mage with no quest, burn priest. I personally play murloc paladin without scales, and some run it with the scales combo and got to legend 80 at a moment, now at 260.
There is strong deck, but with a large pool of cards you can make so many decks that are still viable. Meme decks can work because you have so many cards. I think standard is muuch worse because you ahve so few strong cards..
Op already mentioned 7-8 very strong decks she absolutely hates in wild. That by default makes the meta in wild quite interesting and varied I guess??
Gotta admit - I know very little about Wild at the moment (but I am gonna try climbing next season). However something in your post felt wrong even to me, so I jumped to last vicioussyndicate report and... yeah I was right. I never heard about the two decks you mentioned being any good - because they are not.
Sorry, but Wild is expected to have a significantly high power level. Crazy stuff is meant to happen there.
You listed two decks - Rogue and Libram Paladin. Rogues are on absolute bottom in the Wild, since some time - even I know this, not playing much Wild. Looking at the meta report - yes, it's the bottom class. As For Libram Paladin I was surprised it even is a thing. And once again, it seems I was right, because it is not. Not even listed as a playable deck in Wild.
I don't want to sound like someone who accepted the fact the game is unbalanced, but what did you expect? You mention two gimmick, fun decks and are surprised you don't win? In what card game it is even a thing to take a tier 5 deck (or even tier 6-7, because tier 5 is simply "all decks we don't classify, because they are bad", so we don't know how your decks compare to other tier 5s) and expect a consistent winning?
Now let's not look at this in a vacuum and add some context - we are talking about the Wild. So your opponents are meant to do a crazy shit. You said 20/20 worth of stats turn 3 (not sure if it's a thing, but I can see that) - so it is even much more hostile meta than others. If your deck is supposed to perform, you have to consistently out broken plays. Therefore a gap in viability between the best deck and bad decks is going to be bigger than in most metas.
On top of that you yourself have listed few decks - this means there is already some variety in the meta. This is more than you can get on Standard ladder honestly.
To sum it up:
1. You don't expect to win with tier 5 decks vs tier 1 decks.
2. Especially in Wild.
3. Pick one of MANY viable decks, since the mode seems to offer quite some to choose from.
4. In no card game your favorite deck is going to be winning, unless it so happens that your favorite deck is a high tier (what is rare I'd assume).
EDIT: Source - https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/wild-vs-data-reaper-report-22/
I also play mostly wild and im too on rank 5 diamond. I went to rank 2 andnow fell back and lost the motivation to grind.
I did now some games in gold standard. Believe me its much worse. 29 games 13 against the same lame DH deck.
Find a cool deck that counters half of your problems in wild...and it might get fun again.
I play now an Evolve Shaman and made it even to rank 3 in diamond back.
Nothing is more fun then to devolve the 20/20 magnetized mech into a 1/1 penguin:)
Devolve does alot for you atm in wild.
Give it a try
Kinda disagree with almost all of them except mages.
I just can’t believe secret mage dodge the nerf for so long and nerf to quest mage didn’t do shit
Wild is being dead by turn 4 by hunter / mage / paladin or dead by turn 40 by priest / warrior.
Priest is actually in a weak spot right now since they took off most of the card draw.
Big priest vs Secret mage, oh boy, those were the good times.
Mage changes that you proposed are fair from wild point of view, but if you look at standard, Mage is in a horrible state right now and nerfing most of their cards to the ground would just kill the class entirely, probably for the whole year, and even then Blizzard would just have to give them something amazing to make them equal to other classes. The reason is that many cards that are broken in wild, are mediocre in standard, so I think they should only nerf wild cards here, like Open the Waygate, Kabal Crystal Runner, Aluneth or Explosive Runes.
The thing is all the people wanting to nerf the current wild meta decks into oblivion miss on how many sleeper cards there are in Wild. If you replace the current "broken" stuff, other broken stuff will follow soon after.
Clever buffs are way better to balance Wild in the long run. Buff certain cards whenever a class starts to lack the tools to compete.
I think the current Wild Meta isn't the best but it is far from the worst. Demon Hunter just feels dull, the class is perfectly fine in Wild and possibly even weak after the new nerfs but it feels really dull. It looks flashy but plays out like a GvG curvestone deck.
Primes are also just moderately powerful, all in all this expansion is kinda weak which is weird considering how much it needed to be nerfed for Standard. It is definitely the weakest expansion since the Grand Tournament.
Wild is better now than it was even a short time ago when Snip Snap Warlock was utterly disgusting.
I hit legend this month using Murloc Paladin. I was pretty sick of all the OP crap I saw out there - Priest, DH and Mage in particular - but I sort of accept it's inevitable in Wild.
At a certain point this game is going to need a complete reboot. Wild is just the ultimate dumping ground. Too many cards, too many insane interactions. You can't fix it.
I'd prefer Hearthstone 2.0, where they start over again with a completely different set of basic and classic cards for each class.
I don't know what wild you're playing, but Hunter sucks, Pirate Warrior kills you by turn 4, and Reno Priest is the best deck (which also kills you way earlier than turn 40).
*In Response to AnduinWrynn