If the deck will be tier 4 or higher, we'll probably see a nerf of bloodbloom. The same thing was with Naga sea witch. Warlocks cheated out 20-30 stats at turn 5 and blizzard killed Naga. Even big priest is slower than this warlock.
I'm just curious to hear out your idea for a nerf. It's not hard for me to imagine a one mana cost increase, but imho this change won't affect DH warlock that much as Mecha'thun warlock.
I think Darkest Hour can be changed that it can summon up to three minions, which makes it on-par with Master Oakheart or Army of the Dead or 10-mana Kazakus-Summon Potions in that regard. So, if one summons up to three minions with 6-mana card or more, that would be cool as balance-wise. Otherwise, summoning lots of minions as 6-mana is really a big problem. If comparison is needed, look at N'Zoth, the Corruptor and Bloodreaver Gul'dan. They summon lots of minions, yet they are 10-mana, not 6-mana.
I seen a crazy deck that used darkest hour to sac 1/1's from a token, then summon in a mix of charge and spell power minions. they than went face with the charge minions and fired off spells at face with the spell power minions.
in theory it looks great, but you're probably going to want to pick either charge minions, or spell power ones. running both seems messy.
I think this is why doomgard got HoF'd. it would have been OP in Darkest Hour warlock.
Are you talking about wild? (sorry it is not specified, but I'm hearing stuff mentioned that sounds like it might be wild)
Was going to say, I don't think it's that good currently in Standard in the current meta state. It is a great deck in terms of mechanics, but there is no space for it to do well right now. One to watch out for though if anything changes.
I just lost to this deck in a CASUAL game, and I already felt tilted.
Decks like this really need to have some cards mana costs adjusted to make them easier to deal with.
Also, maybe they can make Nerubian Unraveler's effect to be a Battlecry like this:
Battlecry: As long as this minion is on the board, all spells cost (2) more.
So if Unraveler gets pulled by Darkest Hour, the opponent can still use spells to deal with the board like Brawl, Vanish, Doomsayer Frost Nova etc.
Interesting but i think the spells mana cost should remain cause bloodnloom enables mechathun lock. Nerubian is the real offender cause it protects the board
Are you talking about wild? (sorry it is not specified, but I'm hearing stuff mentioned that sounds like it might be wild)
Was going to say, I don't think it's that good currently in Standard in the current meta state. It is a great deck in terms of mechanics, but there is no space for it to do well right now. One to watch out for though if anything changes.
Yes, about wild, that's why i create this topic in a wild section :)
I just lost to this deck in a CASUAL game, and I already felt tilted.
Decks like this really need to have some cards mana costs adjusted to make them easier to deal with.
Also, maybe they can make Nerubian Unraveler's effect to be a Battlecry like this:
Battlecry: As long as this minion is on the board, all spells cost (2) more.
So if Unraveler gets pulled by Darkest Hour, the opponent can still use spells to deal with the board like Brawl, Vanish, Doomsayer Frost Nova etc.
Interesting but i think the spells mana cost should remain cause bloodnloom enables mechathun lock. Nerubian is the real offender cause it protects the board
Okay, maybe you are right - just nerfing or changing how Nerubian Unraveler works might be a decent solution to nerf this deck and making it slightly more interactive.
Even with that proposed change, this deck would still be quite oppressive because of the amount of charge minions that people run in more recent lists.
A few weeks ago, I swore an oath to get the rest of my 500 Warlock wins with either Arena runs or Renouncelock, so I'll probably never play this. I have gotten over 100 wins since that oath though, from 249 to almost 400, and only 4 were in two separate Arena runs. (One win was in a run where I drafted a Renounce Darkness; one of the losses in the other run involved me using a Lackey-generated Renounce Darkness out of desperation. Worked for one turn via Khadgar and Bilefin Tidehunter.)
Sorry for going off the topic there, but I love Renounce Darkness too much to play Darkest Hour.
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162 ladder wins with Renouncelock and counting! Reno, Zoo, Cube, Even; they all run Renounce Darkness in my lists!
Are you talking about wild? (sorry it is not specified, but I'm hearing stuff mentioned that sounds like it might be wild)
Was going to say, I don't think it's that good currently in Standard in the current meta state. It is a great deck in terms of mechanics, but there is no space for it to do well right now. One to watch out for though if anything changes.
Yes, about wild, that's why i create this topic in a wild section :)
sorry man. it just popped up in the feed and I started to comment about it in standard. the wild version is an abomination. I now know what you were talking about.
Yes, the problem isnt that you summon a full board of minions on turn 6, it's that even IF you have an answer to the board, you can't play your spell and you auto lose. Brawl costs 7. Vanish costs 8. These numbers are higher than 6, hence the problem.
So part of me wants to say, hey clever boy, good combo deck. High roll decks are not fun for all. Minions that are never played in 90% of decks excel in combo decks like Unraveller. The ability to fill your board AND negate any counter play is bogus and unfair.
At least with Big Priest, you CAN transform the minion or remove the board.
Darkest Hour cannot work in Standard without free spell casting. Bloodbloom AND Unraveller seems to be the real culprits here. If either one was changed, then this would not be so oppressive.
This is literally an 'all-in' deck. If you WERE to have an answer to the board, like Brawl or Hysteria, they auto lose the game. The deck plays very little outside of this combo trick.
I think it's fun to pull off once and then move on. People playing this over and over...well I don't really see the pleasure in decks like these, but go for it. The more the deck becomes a staple, the more likely it will become nerfed.
I agree with badhank14, Bloodbloom allowing you to free-cast a 6 mana spell + Nerubian Unraveler making board clears impossible to play before Turn 7 or 8 are the biggest culprits that make this deck oppressive and frustrating to play against.
I got reckt by this deck on turn 3. Blood bloom into fiendish circle, into coin, blood bloom, darkest hour. Into insta concede from me. It is just a high roll deck. If you find all the combo pieces, you win most likely. If you do not find them, you die most of the times. The deck feels inconsistent, but it can win games on the spot as early as turn 3.
I edited my own comment.
See? that being dismissive is BS.
I tend to stay away from wild because of decks like this and others. I am looking at you Big Priest.
If I do play, I am in the dumpter 15 to 20 ranks, so I don't really care and most people I play are playing 'fair' Wild decks.
If I see a Big Priest and I know my deck has no answers, I just concede. I have no fun knowing I will lose 10 mins later.
Or 1 turn later with this deck.
EDIT: didn't realize this was a wild thread. my comment was null.
I'm just curious to hear out your idea for a nerf. It's not hard for me to imagine a one mana cost increase, but imho this change won't affect DH warlock that much as Mecha'thun warlock.
I think Darkest Hour can be changed that it can summon up to three minions, which makes it on-par with Master Oakheart or Army of the Dead or 10-mana Kazakus-Summon Potions in that regard. So, if one summons up to three minions with 6-mana card or more, that would be cool as balance-wise. Otherwise, summoning lots of minions as 6-mana is really a big problem. If comparison is needed, look at N'Zoth, the Corruptor and Bloodreaver Gul'dan. They summon lots of minions, yet they are 10-mana, not 6-mana.
I seen a crazy deck that used darkest hour to sac 1/1's from a token, then summon in a mix of charge and spell power minions. they than went face with the charge minions and fired off spells at face with the spell power minions.
in theory it looks great, but you're probably going to want to pick either charge minions, or spell power ones. running both seems messy.
I think this is why doomgard got HoF'd. it would have been OP in Darkest Hour warlock.
I just lost to this deck in a CASUAL game, and I already felt tilted.
Decks like this really need to have some cards mana costs adjusted to make them easier to deal with.
Also, maybe they can make Nerubian Unraveler's effect to be a Battlecry like this:
Battlecry: As long as this minion is on the board, all spells cost (2) more.
So if Unraveler gets pulled by Darkest Hour, the opponent can still use spells to deal with the board like Brawl, Vanish, Doomsayer Frost Nova etc.
Are you talking about wild? (sorry it is not specified, but I'm hearing stuff mentioned that sounds like it might be wild)
Was going to say, I don't think it's that good currently in Standard in the current meta state. It is a great deck in terms of mechanics, but there is no space for it to do well right now. One to watch out for though if anything changes.
Interesting but i think the spells mana cost should remain cause bloodnloom enables mechathun lock. Nerubian is the real offender cause it protects the board
It is strong, yes. Mostly in tandem with other cards like Voidcaller and Bloodbloom taken into consideration.
Not sure if it needs a nerf, possibly a re-balancing considering how laughably easy RoS made it to flood the board with junk minions for Darkest Hour.
Yes, about wild, that's why i create this topic in a wild section :)
Okay, maybe you are right - just nerfing or changing how Nerubian Unraveler works might be a decent solution to nerf this deck and making it slightly more interactive.
Even with that proposed change, this deck would still be quite oppressive because of the amount of charge minions that people run in more recent lists.
Check out this gameplay by Roffle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?<wbr />v=AUvabFD2qdY
i played that shit for a week really fun deck but very inconsistent
maybe a nerf in the future definitely not now tho
but ye voidcaller is the issue actually
big priest still better overall
A few weeks ago, I swore an oath to get the rest of my 500 Warlock wins with either Arena runs or Renouncelock, so I'll probably never play this. I have gotten over 100 wins since that oath though, from 249 to almost 400, and only 4 were in two separate Arena runs. (One win was in a run where I drafted a Renounce Darkness; one of the losses in the other run involved me using a Lackey-generated Renounce Darkness out of desperation. Worked for one turn via Khadgar and Bilefin Tidehunter.)
Sorry for going off the topic there, but I love Renounce Darkness too much to play Darkest Hour.
162 ladder wins with Renouncelock and counting! Reno, Zoo, Cube, Even; they all run Renounce Darkness in my lists!
every mana cheating abilty is a problem for wild format the offenders for now is DH warlock and big priest
with this abilities u just win on the spot if u just draw that 1 card
sorry man. it just popped up in the feed and I started to comment about it in standard. the wild version is an abomination. I now know what you were talking about.
I just lost to a Darkest Hour Warlock in Wild, he even has nerubian unraveller, I can't even Vanish
Yes, the problem isnt that you summon a full board of minions on turn 6, it's that even IF you have an answer to the board, you can't play your spell and you auto lose. Brawl costs 7. Vanish costs 8. These numbers are higher than 6, hence the problem.
So part of me wants to say, hey clever boy, good combo deck. High roll decks are not fun for all. Minions that are never played in 90% of decks excel in combo decks like Unraveller. The ability to fill your board AND negate any counter play is bogus and unfair.
At least with Big Priest, you CAN transform the minion or remove the board.
Darkest Hour cannot work in Standard without free spell casting. Bloodbloom AND Unraveller seems to be the real culprits here. If either one was changed, then this would not be so oppressive.
This is literally an 'all-in' deck. If you WERE to have an answer to the board, like Brawl or Hysteria, they auto lose the game. The deck plays very little outside of this combo trick.
I think it's fun to pull off once and then move on. People playing this over and over...well I don't really see the pleasure in decks like these, but go for it. The more the deck becomes a staple, the more likely it will become nerfed.
I agree with badhank14, Bloodbloom allowing you to free-cast a 6 mana spell + Nerubian Unraveler making board clears impossible to play before Turn 7 or 8 are the biggest culprits that make this deck oppressive and frustrating to play against.
I got reckt by this deck on turn 3. Blood bloom into fiendish circle, into coin, blood bloom, darkest hour. Into insta concede from me. It is just a high roll deck. If you find all the combo pieces, you win most likely. If you do not find them, you die most of the times. The deck feels inconsistent, but it can win games on the spot as early as turn 3.