I love that - "Hey, be smart play cards that are awful against all decks and not that great against the target deck " solution to any tier 1 deck
No, diluting big priest's resurrect pool isn't that effective, and yes, almost all cards that give minions to your opponents are bad, sentry and Leroy are the only exceptions. Even something like hungry dragon in a dragon dack is BAD
And If I want to go and just annihilate big priests and accept awful winrate against others, I'd go for something stupid like OTK freeze mage with 2 sheeps, 2 sheep potions, and 2 boars
I've not played wild since the latest expansion, but prior to that I had a decent win rate against Big Priest, just by using 2 Hungry Dragons, and Seances that I was running anyway for Talanji. Against Priest, it's a case of looking for those cards, playing the dragons, seancing the dragons back, and playing them again. Add in Stonehill defenders, which can pull Hungry Ettins, and Librarians which can add more hungry dragons, and you get in a situatuon where the longer the game goes, the worse their strategy becomes. Neither of the cards used in this counter are outright bad in other games, as the Seances are there to help Talanji, and its unusual I don't have something on the board to deal with a random 1 drop on turn 4. I'm not saying this is a strategy every deck can employ, but a little creativity around your existing deck strategy works wonders.
Graveyard decks have a unique advantage over other kinds of decks - the graveyard isn't a "zone" in HS, and the graveyard opponents can't interact with it as a result. Our "hate" cards are half-measures with respect to Resurrect decks - we can transform their big minions, or summon some minions on their side of the board. Silence is really the only counter to Egg decks and Cube decks, and the new Nine Lives decks Hunter is running in both formats. MtG has no end to the number of cards which empty graveyards - we lack such reset buttons, and since the graveyard isn't a real zone in HS, it's unlikely we will ever have those tools.
As far as the OP's opinions regarding his opponents - it's a free country (probably - I don't know where the kid lives . . .) and he can share whatever opinions he has. However, he seems perfectly disingenuous - no one should have to point out why his opponents weren't playing tech cards against a new deck. He knows why they weren't, but prefers to pretend that he has some sort of exotic knowledge about how HS ought to be played, and the rest of the shitty horde on ladder should pay attention to his wise teachings. All things considered, they are probably better off not.
I usually tend to agree wtih your statements but this is just straight up nonsense. I didn't claim to say something along the lines like git gud and be like me and my playstyle is superior than yours. I just want to point out the fact that people tend to overreact to stuff. Everyone have a limit. Myself included. I hated Star Aligner Druid. This is not the thread about it though. This thread is about people that cant play properly even in higher ranks and then usually went to Hearthstone dedicated sites to complain. Lets face the truth here. WILD IS UNFIXABLE. There is already popping up more highrolly stuff than Big Priest or Naga decks(Thekal Giant package or Darkest Hour Warlock) so instead of complaining about it endlessly people shoiuld adapt and actually plan ahead in those matches. Big Priest was just an example btw but everyone and their grandmas seem to look only to this side of the post. Including you. This post is about not playing around certain cards. This post is about missplaying. This post is about not doing anything to improve your unfavourable matchups yet you are mindlessly attacking me. Pathetic
You see, by pointing what you deem as half of the problems of Wild, you are actually implying the other half is not a problem at all, just the state of things. But is it actually inevitable?
Wild appears to be unfixable because at EVERY EXPANSION they keep printing a bunch of obviously broken cards that are exclusively kept in check by the Rotation.
Why do they keep printing cards that allow to play other cards way before their mana is reached on curve?
Is it REALLY NECESSARY to have these mechanics, in order to generate fun?
If they strictly followed the rules of the mana curve, with only Mountain Giant as the exception about mana cheat, Wild would be a paradise now.
Disagree, the overwhelming majority of problems Wild has could be easily remedied if Team 5 cared about it as a (potentially) competitive format.
We've all been down this road and back again. It really is on Team 5 to shape Wild to be how they want it to be. And they have decided they just are not interested.
You see, by pointing what you deem as half of the problems of Wild, you are actually implying the other half is not a problem at all, just the state of things. But is it actually inevitable?
Wild appears to be unfixable because at EVERY EXPANSION they keep printing a bunch of obviously broken cards that are exclusively kept in check by the Rotation.
Why do they keep printing cards that allow to play other cards way before their mana is reached on curve?
Is it REALLY NECESSARY to have these mechanics, in order to generate fun?
If they strictly followed the rules of the mana curve, with only Mountain Giant as the exception about mana cheat, Wild would be a paradise now.
This is just another mechanic in the game. Different strokes for different folks. Its not about mana cheating. People troughout the HS history complained about everything. Tutoring effects,Charge effects,Healing effects. EVERYTHING. If highrolly part of the game completely dissapeared people will change their hate towards any other aspect. Thinking that after highroll decks nerf that the Wild will be paradise is delusional.
I havent said that other half is not a problem. Im saying that half of the problem can be easily solved by community. Afterall, how can you play an Eternal format yet missplay and not tweak your decks so hard and badly even though the game exists straight 5 years? Thats my problem. The other half won't be solved anyway. As I mentioned in my other posts on this forum: Wild is more broken format with more broken comboes across all archetypes(highroll included)
Yes, people would complain of something else. No, curve cheating is not just a different stroke of the game.
I'd like to point out the case of Ironbeak Owl nerf. Do you remember the reason? It happened because they didn't want silence to be a cheap tech. Spellbreaker was untouched, not because of Value, but simply because his mana cost was higher: this means they intend the mana curve as a non-linear one. And correctly so, imo.
This is why some stuff should not be banned from the game entirely, but simply relegated to the right point of the mana curve, with NO POSSIBLE WAY, existent or not, to cheat around that limitation. It's quite simple actually.
And no, it's not even highroll anymore, since you can build a deck that nullify the vast part of highroll, with insignificant drawback. You see that something inherently broken was kept in check solely by the limited card pool. But said cards are still inherently broken, because their effect is potentially directed towards a higher point of the mana curve.
In particular, it's not a NECESSARY part of the game design. You are saying it is, and building your argument upon that assumption, but it is just an assumption derived by the current state of things. It's a tautology.
It is the state of things now, true, probably the state of things forever, but only because the devs chose it, and/or not cared of it.
If something can realistically be solved by the customers, then it's not a real problem by definition, because solution will eventually happen on its own. If that does not happen, however, it means there is a real problem, to be solved in other ways.
Unless you accept it as it is ofc, but then you are simply denying the definition of "problem". At that point it is a contradiction.
Also, you are overrating the importance of teching up: you can probably gain some better chances in a specific matchup, but generally lose the same in a variety of different ones: teching up improves the average winrate only in very few cases. There is a reason why Spellbreaker and Acidic Swamp Ooze are very common techs, while Saronite Taskmaster is not, and no, it cannot be solely explained by the strategy crystallization of the Wild community.
TL;DR: yes, better players would improve the mode, but it is an unrealistic expectation for the most part (definitely not 50%). More importantly, it would still be broken either way. The real problem lurking in the fabric of the current game design and Rotation policies.
Disagree, the overwhelming majority of problems Wild has could be easily remedied if Team 5 cared about it as a (potentially) competitive format.
We've all been down this road and back again. It really is on Team 5 to shape Wild to be how they want it to be. And they have decided they just are not interested.
I kind of agree with this but then again it's no surprise considering that I've called out Blizzard multiple times in my articles for disregarding Wild as a whole.
In general though I'm not so sure I want them to be that actively involved unless their knowledge of the format improves. Asking them to get involved when they know next to nothing about the format is like giving a machinegun to a monkey. I'm happy with the occassional nerf to alleviate the oppression.
In terms of this thread specifically, I'd have to agree in part. Largely people have very low winrates with more fringe archetypes like reno because they refuse to tech to the meta. Even tier 4 decks can get to Legend assuming you play well. However, having said that certain archetypes are unbelievably oppressive and force you to warp your deck around them to such a degree that you can end up being unfavored in multiple other matchups. It happened with AK47 Druid, Nagalock & Nagahunt and potentially Brig Priest is creeping up there in becoming oppressive.
tl;dr: It's a combination of lack of tech and oppressive decks.
Just my 2 cents! ^^
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Greetings. FirePaladin here with another interesting topic to discuss
Today I want to talk about low skill level even on higher ranks of Wild. Something that I havent noticed before. Maybe it has something to do with the new players entering the Wild and making in to higher ranks. Maybe its just degradation. Either way I feel that this is worth disscusion since if more players would actually play better, we wouldn't get so many complaints about everything
As any nother player I enjoy the games where skill actualy matters. The Control vs Control games or Aggro vs Aggro are just satisfying to play when you both have good draws and you both know what you are doing. Apparently this is becoming less and less common
My first thoughts about this came up a long time ago. However, the final trigger was my 2 day journey of playing Big Priest with Vargoth. I was curious about how powerfull it was and if its really superior to Barnes build. Turns out it is. Partly because of Vargoth, and partly because of the stupidity of my enemies. Around rank 5 to rank 3 on EU not a single soul played any tech card or made any good or smart desicion. There was no Saronite Taskmaster, no Tinkmaster Overspark and not even a smart play whatsoever. My Control opponents were immediately killing the Vargoth without a second thought leading to games ending soon because of me ressurecting it again. I've played against Renolocks not playing around Psychic Screams(one of those games resulted me Screaming the board of 11 Kazakus Sheeps and my opponent played Reno on next turn which was inactive.) , Odd Paladins overcomitting on board and Exodia Mages killing my Rag immediatelly. After such an experience I decided to play other decks that there were complaints about. I got the same resulsts with Kingsbane Rogue, Odd Paladin and Mechathunlock. People just weren't good. They were wasting their resources and not planning ahead. Which resulted into their defeat.
So my final thoughts about this are:
1. Before complaining. Try to actually play more carefully and learn from your mistakes.
2. USE THE TECH CARDS. We have a decks in this format that can in late game completely lock you out of game (NoFunAllowed Shamanwock,Weasel Priest,Quest Mage) and yet they can be disrupted. As any deck ever. Use your card collection
3. Play better and you will be rewarded. Yes, even in a such and RNG game like hearthstone.
EDIT: As I see by a few responses: Please before posting some hate post think actually about the topic. The Big Priest is just an example and as I said.: People were terrible against playing Kinsgbane Rogue and Mechathunlock as well. Its not only about Big Priest. Its about majority of players that are whining yet playing like a rank 50 Standard)
Anyone can tech against big priest, but there are other decks out there too. You can't just fill your deck with minions that spawn minions for your opponent. And it takes more than one to mess up the Res pool.
I kind of agree with this but then again it's no surprise considering that I've called out Blizzard multiple times in my articles for disregarding Wild as a whole.
In general though I'm not so sure I want them to be that actively involved unless their knowledge of the format improves. Asking them to get involved when they know next to nothing about the format is like giving a machinegun to a monkey. I'm happy with the occassional nerf to alleviate the oppression.
I suppose you've got me there. It is questionable as to if they have anybody on their dev team that actively plays wild at higher at higher ladder ranks. Or anyone on the team at all that wants to tone down the currently over performing mana cheating cards in Wild.
How about you just use one of the new minions that force a minion onto Priest's side of the board? You can easily build an anti big priest deck. Adapt.
That has to be one of the dumbest comments I've ever seen. The last thing you want to do is accelerate the game plan of the Big Priest. Bringing out a minion to their board is awful, specially early on when you cannot do that and also deal with the minion.
Barnes presents a problem because only Mages and Shamans can target transform. Other classes are relegated to Tinkmaster Overspark which is random and cannot control whether it targets the minion or Barnes. When this happens after a Coin/Turn 4 Barnes, this is game over, in case you fail the target.
You can obviously build Anti-Big Priest decks, the problem is aside from Mage and Shaman, other classes cannot properly build them. Tinkmaster being random is the reason why Barnes is such a problem. Shadow Essence for example, while strong, creates only one target for Tinkmaster, as well as coming down later in the game. That is what allows it to be strong but not a problem.
That's.... just wrong. ALL of the wild problems would be solved? A bit preposterous, don't you think?
No. Can you present me any other objective problem in Wild? A problem which is not based on some subjective perspective of yours, or of a portion of the player base?
You do realize there are minions that bring completely different minions to the priest's board, right? Warrior has the 2/6 for 2 mana, that brings raptor's to the priest's board. The new expansion brought several minions that all bring imps or gryphons to the priest's board.
You could play priest and run potion of madness to steal the 1/1 that Barn summons. You could run mage or shaman to transform the 1/1 into anything else.
There are cards to deal with big priest. Stop acting like its completely uncounterable.
Your whole argument is full of issues. Stop acting like an “intellectual” and act a little humble. If Big Priest in your eyes is only a problem because players don’t tech or play correctly against, why do almost all pro wild players hate it? Example:Control. Your argument is pretty faulty and can barely support itself. Provide some evidence and we can have a proper discussion not full of fallacy's. I have even more points that can obliterate your poor argument but I’ll wait for your response. But I shouldn’t regurgitate the same insults, for I do like some of your Reno decks.
Your whole argument is full of issues. Stop acting like an “intellectual” and act a little humble. If Big Priest in your eyes is only a problem because players don’t tech or play correctly against, why do almost all pro wild players hate it? Example:Control. Your argument is pretty faulty and can barely support itself. Provide some evidence and we can have a proper discussion not full of fallacy's. I have even more points that can obliterate your poor argument but I’ll wait for your response. But I shouldn’t regurgitate the same insults, for I do like some of your Reno decks.
Since your post is so well made and you are the manifestation of humbleness itself, I'm gonna entertain myself and answer you in a little bit sarcastical way yet with me proving my point. You as many others in the thread just saw a Big Priest example and just charged against it like a bull charging on a red colour. My argument is not "pretty faulty" and streamers and pro players are against it yet they play it on tournaments and they are criticizing it as much as any other strong deck. "I have even more points that can obliterate your poor agrument but I'll wait for response. But I shouldn’t regurgitate the same insults, for I do like your account name." <- I would like to quote this and rephrase it a little bit for you because you need this more than me my friend) Have a cup of coffee. Sit back and reread my post. Especially the edited part which I made for "especially special" people like you that like to jump into conclusions quickly), You charged at me with your facts and logic yet they can be compared to Colossus of Rhodes-they are currently non existent) I wish you good read and if you want to discuss the actual missplaying and poor deckbuilding topic,then lets have a talk ^^
Yes, people would complain of something else. No, curve cheating is not just a different stroke of the game.
I'd like to point out the case of Ironbeak Owl nerf. Do you remember the reason? It happened because they didn't want silence to be a cheap tech. Spellbreaker was untouched, not because of Value, but simply because his mana cost was higher: this means they intend the mana curve as a non-linear one. And correctly so, imo.
This is why some stuff should not be banned from the game entirely, but simply relegated to the right point of the mana curve, with NO POSSIBLE WAY, existent or not, to cheat around that limitation. It's quite simple actually.
And no, it's not even highroll anymore, since you can build a deck that nullify the vast part of highroll, with insignificant drawback. You see that something inherently broken was kept in check solely by the limited card pool. But said cards are still inherently broken, because their effect is potentially directed towards a higher point of the mana curve.
In particular, it's not a NECESSARY part of the game design. You are saying it is, and building your argument upon that assumption, but it is just an assumption derived by the current state of things. It's a tautology.
It is the state of things now, true, probably the state of things forever, but only because the devs chose it, and/or not cared of it.
If something can realistically be solved by the customers, then it's not a real problem by definition, because solution will eventually happen on its own. If that does not happen, however, it means there is a real problem, to be solved in other ways.
Unless you accept it as it is ofc, but then you are simply denying the definition of "problem". At that point it is a contradiction.
Also, you are overrating the importance of teching up: you can probably gain some better chances in a specific matchup, but generally lose the same in a variety of different ones: teching up improves the average winrate only in very few cases. There is a reason why Spellbreaker and Acidic Swamp Ooze are very common techs, while Saronite Taskmaster is not, and no, it cannot be solely explained by the strategy crystallization of the Wild community.
TL;DR: yes, better players would improve the mode, but it is an unrealistic expectation for the most part (definitely not 50%). More importantly, it would still be broken either way. The real problem lurking in the fabric of the current game design and Rotation policies.
And you are building your point upon the fact that it is not necessary to have highroll yet the highroll is a part in any card game and even the consistent one (which Big Priest isn't). Its just the matter of a point of view how you view the CCG topic and I respect your point yet still tend to disagree with it. The only thing that I don't understand is the cards example and point. Ironbeak Owl nerf and Blizzards other choices are poorly made since they are printing cards that have similar effects and no, Saronite Taskmaster can be considered as 1 mana 2/3 which perfectly trades against aggresive decks. The fact that its a tech against Big Priest doesnt mean it is against the other decks as well. Its just a good card. You also don't call Leeroy a tech card just because he summons 2 Whelps)
This RNG Priest deck is not a matter of people playing tech cards or not playing 'smart'. You are not any more or any less skilled because of your ability to play this deck. This deck requires no real skill to pilot. There are no actual choices when choosing a minion with Eternal Solitude. You choose the one that isn't the sheep. You can't mulligan better or worse because your sole win condition is turn 4 Barnes or turn 3 with a coin.
These are high roll decks and they are not fun to play against.
yes, there are ways to beat the deck. But stop acting it's like you are a better player or others are worse players.
When any deck has a high win percentage when it hits 1 specific minion on a very specific turn, that has nothing to do with skill.
It's the same with Prince Keleseth. Hitting the Prince on turn 2 or turn 1 with the coin doesnt make you better or more skilled. It doesnt make your opponent worse for not 'playing' around a turn 2 Keleseth.
High Roll decks exist in Hearthstone. That is a fact. Many people don't find them fun to play or play against. That is a fact. The deck is beatable. Yep, fact here too.
So unless something becomes oppressive and the community has legitimate concerns and complaints, then Blizzard will not do a thing to balance it. Nerfing Barnes to 5 mana is 1 solution, but not the only one.
You can also change the Rez spells to say Summon minions that you PLAYED and then DIED this game. So that means you can't cheat out 10 drops on turn 4 or 5 because you never played the minion.
You could change Ysaarj to summon the lowest cost minion in your deck.
I am not saying we need to change anything or nerf anything. But don't play the game of 'I am better and you are worse' because you are playing a literal gambling simulator deck.
No thanks to telling people who think this deck is not fun to play against. No thanks to your 'git gud' post.
How about playing against Big Rez Priest with a class of MY choosing and see how you do. I will even let you tech it up like you wanted. Good luck with that.
Your whole argument is full of issues. Stop acting like an “intellectual” and act a little humble. If Big Priest in your eyes is only a problem because players don’t tech or play correctly against, why do almost all pro wild players hate it? Example:Control. Your argument is pretty faulty and can barely support itself. Provide some evidence and we can have a proper discussion not full of fallacy's. I have even more points that can obliterate your poor argument but I’ll wait for your response. But I shouldn’t regurgitate the same insults, for I do like some of your Reno decks.
Since your post is so well made and you are the manifestation of humbleness itself, I'm gonna entertain myself and answer you in a little bit sarcastical way yet with me proving my point. You as many others in the thread just saw a Big Priest example and just charged against it like a bull charging on a red colour. My argument is not "pretty faulty" and streamers and pro players are against it yet they play it on tournaments and they are criticizing it as much as any other strong deck. "I have even more points that can obliterate your poor agrument but I'll wait for response. But I shouldn’t regurgitate the same insults, for I do like your account name." <- I would like to quote this and rephrase it a little bit for you because you need this more than me my friend) Have a cup of coffee. Sit back and reread my post. Especially the edited part which I made for "especially special" people like you that like to jump into conclusions quickly), You charged at me with your facts and logic yet they can be compared to Colossus of Rhodes-they are currently non existent) I wish you good read and if you want to discuss the actual missplaying and poor deckbuilding topic,then lets have a talk ^^
Basically you had no evidence so you resorted to putting a jumbled mess of words to try to make people think ‘I wrote a lot and am insulting the person that doesn’t agree with me!’ Provide some evidence your argumentative skills are horrendous. No rebuttal whatsoever, also in my earlier statement I not only insulted your feelings, but dismantled your argument for the simple fact, that if these decks wouldn’t be so good if people were playing good, why do people consistently get top 100 legend, and a hearthstone tournament player and wild expert Control, said himself:”Big Priest is unhealthy for the game and so are decks like odd Paladin”. But I guess I didn’t make it clear, which I would think somebody who is not as “Special” as me could understand. Again get this through your dense skull and stop relying on your edited post to save you when you don’t provide substantial evidence.
To all the people saying nerf Barnes, I say fine. My deck will work just fine without him. I mostly play standard but Big priest is one of the decks I run in wild. I like to get to rank 5 in wild every season for whatever reason, and I find the deck very enjoyable. For those that actually play Big Priest would know that cards like Barnes low roll and backfire all the time. When I resurrect with 3-4 minions in my pool and guess who it is, a useless 3/4. How about the times I am struggling against aggro and coin out a shadow essence to guess what, a useless no stat 5/5. It is however super entertaining to coin out Barnes and see Yshaarj. All in all there are many decks that can wreck Big priest and my wins aren’t only because of Barnes, a good amount of my losses are though. People will start crying after Barnes gets a nerf that Vargoth needs one. I’ve had times where I was close to dying against aggro and basically pulled off a Reno Jackson with spirit lash. I had like 5 copies of Varath out. That card has become the real MVP, it’s not Barnes.
Your whole argument is full of issues. Stop acting like an “intellectual” and act a little humble. If Big Priest in your eyes is only a problem because players don’t tech or play correctly against, why do almost all pro wild players hate it? Example:Control. Your argument is pretty faulty and can barely support itself. Provide some evidence and we can have a proper discussion not full of fallacy's. I have even more points that can obliterate your poor argument but I’ll wait for your response. But I shouldn’t regurgitate the same insults, for I do like some of your Reno decks.
Since your post is so well made and you are the manifestation of humbleness itself, I'm gonna entertain myself and answer you in a little bit sarcastical way yet with me proving my point. You as many others in the thread just saw a Big Priest example and just charged against it like a bull charging on a red colour. My argument is not "pretty faulty" and streamers and pro players are against it yet they play it on tournaments and they are criticizing it as much as any other strong deck. "I have even more points that can obliterate your poor agrument but I'll wait for response. But I shouldn’t regurgitate the same insults, for I do like your account name." <- I would like to quote this and rephrase it a little bit for you because you need this more than me my friend) Have a cup of coffee. Sit back and reread my post. Especially the edited part which I made for "especially special" people like you that like to jump into conclusions quickly), You charged at me with your facts and logic yet they can be compared to Colossus of Rhodes-they are currently non existent) I wish you good read and if you want to discuss the actual missplaying and poor deckbuilding topic,then lets have a talk ^^
Basically you had no evidence so you resorted to putting a jumbled mess of words to try to make people think ‘I wrote a lot and am insulting the person that doesn’t agree with me!’ Provide some evidence your argumentative skills are horrendous. No rebuttal whatsoever, also in my earlier statement I not only insulted your feelings, but dismantled your argument for the simple fact, that if these decks wouldn’t be so good if people were playing good, why do people consistently get top 100 legend, and a hearthstone tournament player and wild expert Control, said himself:”Big Priest is unhealthy for the game and so are decks like odd Paladin”. But I guess I didn’t make it clear, which I would think somebody who is not as “Special” as me could understand. Again get this through your dense skull and stop relying on your edited post to save you when you don’t provide substantial evidence.
The thing is that was exactly my point in my response: To make you understand how your post looks like to a random reader. How am I supposed to talk with you when your "ubreakable point" goes in cirles around an example in my post and is reffering to Control which is yes, a pro Wild player yet so toxic and hypocritical that I wouldn't dare to make him as an example to prove any point. You can ignore my EDIT that makes it clearer/TLDR of the thread all you want but that doesnt mean that your ignoration will somehow change the topic of the thread. "Get this through your dense skull "If you dont want to accept that then theres nothing to talk about. Cheers mate^^
Now if you play Saronite Taskmaster and Tinkmaster Overspark, you'll run into even more problems than what you try to fix.
With all respects to you RenoJackson, I just dont see a 1 mana 2/3 as a bad card nor a 3 mana 3/3 transform minion in other matchups. And as I made myself clear in the edit: the thread is about overall missplaying and not playing around basic stuff. Big Priest is just example.
I love that - "Hey, be smart play cards that are awful against all decks and not that great against the target deck " solution to any tier 1 deck
No, diluting big priest's resurrect pool isn't that effective, and yes, almost all cards that give minions to your opponents are bad, sentry and Leroy are the only exceptions. Even something like hungry dragon in a dragon dack is BAD
And If I want to go and just annihilate big priests and accept awful winrate against others, I'd go for something stupid like OTK freeze mage with 2 sheeps, 2 sheep potions, and 2 boars
I've not played wild since the latest expansion, but prior to that I had a decent win rate against Big Priest, just by using 2 Hungry Dragons, and Seances that I was running anyway for Talanji. Against Priest, it's a case of looking for those cards, playing the dragons, seancing the dragons back, and playing them again. Add in Stonehill defenders, which can pull Hungry Ettins, and Librarians which can add more hungry dragons, and you get in a situatuon where the longer the game goes, the worse their strategy becomes. Neither of the cards used in this counter are outright bad in other games, as the Seances are there to help Talanji, and its unusual I don't have something on the board to deal with a random 1 drop on turn 4. I'm not saying this is a strategy every deck can employ, but a little creativity around your existing deck strategy works wonders.
Check out my entrant for the WCDC 9.12: Bilgewater Highroller
I usually tend to agree wtih your statements but this is just straight up nonsense. I didn't claim to say something along the lines like git gud and be like me and my playstyle is superior than yours. I just want to point out the fact that people tend to overreact to stuff. Everyone have a limit. Myself included. I hated Star Aligner Druid. This is not the thread about it though. This thread is about people that cant play properly even in higher ranks and then usually went to Hearthstone dedicated sites to complain. Lets face the truth here. WILD IS UNFIXABLE. There is already popping up more highrolly stuff than Big Priest or Naga decks(Thekal Giant package or Darkest Hour Warlock) so instead of complaining about it endlessly people shoiuld adapt and actually plan ahead in those matches. Big Priest was just an example btw but everyone and their grandmas seem to look only to this side of the post. Including you. This post is about not playing around certain cards. This post is about missplaying. This post is about not doing anything to improve your unfavourable matchups yet you are mindlessly attacking me. Pathetic
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
You see, by pointing what you deem as half of the problems of Wild, you are actually implying the other half is not a problem at all, just the state of things. But is it actually inevitable?
Wild appears to be unfixable because at EVERY EXPANSION they keep printing a bunch of obviously broken cards that are exclusively kept in check by the Rotation.
Why do they keep printing cards that allow to play other cards way before their mana is reached on curve?
Is it REALLY NECESSARY to have these mechanics, in order to generate fun?
If they strictly followed the rules of the mana curve, with only Mountain Giant as the exception about mana cheat, Wild would be a paradise now.
Disagree, the overwhelming majority of problems Wild has could be easily remedied if Team 5 cared about it as a (potentially) competitive format.
We've all been down this road and back again. It really is on Team 5 to shape Wild to be how they want it to be. And they have decided they just are not interested.
This is just another mechanic in the game. Different strokes for different folks. Its not about mana cheating. People troughout the HS history complained about everything. Tutoring effects,Charge effects,Healing effects. EVERYTHING. If highrolly part of the game completely dissapeared people will change their hate towards any other aspect. Thinking that after highroll decks nerf that the Wild will be paradise is delusional.
I havent said that other half is not a problem. Im saying that half of the problem can be easily solved by community. Afterall, how can you play an Eternal format yet missplay and not tweak your decks so hard and badly even though the game exists straight 5 years? Thats my problem. The other half won't be solved anyway. As I mentioned in my other posts on this forum: Wild is more broken format with more broken comboes across all archetypes(highroll included)
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Yes, people would complain of something else. No, curve cheating is not just a different stroke of the game.
I'd like to point out the case of Ironbeak Owl nerf. Do you remember the reason? It happened because they didn't want silence to be a cheap tech. Spellbreaker was untouched, not because of Value, but simply because his mana cost was higher: this means they intend the mana curve as a non-linear one. And correctly so, imo.
This is why some stuff should not be banned from the game entirely, but simply relegated to the right point of the mana curve, with NO POSSIBLE WAY, existent or not, to cheat around that limitation. It's quite simple actually.
And no, it's not even highroll anymore, since you can build a deck that nullify the vast part of highroll, with insignificant drawback. You see that something inherently broken was kept in check solely by the limited card pool. But said cards are still inherently broken, because their effect is potentially directed towards a higher point of the mana curve.
In particular, it's not a NECESSARY part of the game design. You are saying it is, and building your argument upon that assumption, but it is just an assumption derived by the current state of things. It's a tautology.
It is the state of things now, true, probably the state of things forever, but only because the devs chose it, and/or not cared of it.
If something can realistically be solved by the customers, then it's not a real problem by definition, because solution will eventually happen on its own. If that does not happen, however, it means there is a real problem, to be solved in other ways.
Unless you accept it as it is ofc, but then you are simply denying the definition of "problem". At that point it is a contradiction.
Also, you are overrating the importance of teching up: you can probably gain some better chances in a specific matchup, but generally lose the same in a variety of different ones: teching up improves the average winrate only in very few cases. There is a reason why Spellbreaker and Acidic Swamp Ooze are very common techs, while Saronite Taskmaster is not, and no, it cannot be solely explained by the strategy crystallization of the Wild community.
TL;DR: yes, better players would improve the mode, but it is an unrealistic expectation for the most part (definitely not 50%). More importantly, it would still be broken either way. The real problem lurking in the fabric of the current game design and Rotation policies.
I kind of agree with this but then again it's no surprise considering that I've called out Blizzard multiple times in my articles for disregarding Wild as a whole.
In general though I'm not so sure I want them to be that actively involved unless their knowledge of the format improves. Asking them to get involved when they know next to nothing about the format is like giving a machinegun to a monkey. I'm happy with the occassional nerf to alleviate the oppression.
In terms of this thread specifically, I'd have to agree in part. Largely people have very low winrates with more fringe archetypes like reno because they refuse to tech to the meta. Even tier 4 decks can get to Legend assuming you play well. However, having said that certain archetypes are unbelievably oppressive and force you to warp your deck around them to such a degree that you can end up being unfavored in multiple other matchups. It happened with AK47 Druid, Nagalock & Nagahunt and potentially Brig Priest is creeping up there in becoming oppressive.
tl;dr: It's a combination of lack of tech and oppressive decks.
Just my 2 cents! ^^
Anyone can tech against big priest, but there are other decks out there too. You can't just fill your deck with minions that spawn minions for your opponent. And it takes more than one to mess up the Res pool.
I suppose you've got me there. It is questionable as to if they have anybody on their dev team that actively plays wild at higher at higher ladder ranks. Or anyone on the team at all that wants to tone down the currently over performing mana cheating cards in Wild.
You do realize there are minions that bring completely different minions to the priest's board, right? Warrior has the 2/6 for 2 mana, that brings raptor's to the priest's board. The new expansion brought several minions that all bring imps or gryphons to the priest's board.
You could play priest and run potion of madness to steal the 1/1 that Barn summons. You could run mage or shaman to transform the 1/1 into anything else.
There are cards to deal with big priest. Stop acting like its completely uncounterable.
Your whole argument is full of issues. Stop acting like an “intellectual” and act a little humble. If Big Priest in your eyes is only a problem because players don’t tech or play correctly against, why do almost all pro wild players hate it? Example:Control. Your argument is pretty faulty and can barely support itself. Provide some evidence and we can have a proper discussion not full of fallacy's. I have even more points that can obliterate your poor argument but I’ll wait for your response. But I shouldn’t regurgitate the same insults, for I do like some of your Reno decks.
Since your post is so well made and you are the manifestation of humbleness itself, I'm gonna entertain myself and answer you in a little bit sarcastical way yet with me proving my point. You as many others in the thread just saw a Big Priest example and just charged against it like a bull charging on a red colour. My argument is not "pretty faulty" and streamers and pro players are against it yet they play it on tournaments and they are criticizing it as much as any other strong deck. "I have even more points that can obliterate your poor agrument but I'll wait for response. But I shouldn’t regurgitate the same insults, for I do like your account name." <- I would like to quote this and rephrase it a little bit for you because you need this more than me my friend) Have a cup of coffee. Sit back and reread my post. Especially the edited part which I made for "especially special" people like you that like to jump into conclusions quickly), You charged at me with your facts and logic yet they can be compared to Colossus of Rhodes-they are currently non existent) I wish you good read and if you want to discuss the actual missplaying and poor deckbuilding topic,then lets have a talk ^^
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And you are building your point upon the fact that it is not necessary to have highroll yet the highroll is a part in any card game and even the consistent one (which Big Priest isn't). Its just the matter of a point of view how you view the CCG topic and I respect your point yet still tend to disagree with it. The only thing that I don't understand is the cards example and point. Ironbeak Owl nerf and Blizzards other choices are poorly made since they are printing cards that have similar effects and no, Saronite Taskmaster can be considered as 1 mana 2/3 which perfectly trades against aggresive decks. The fact that its a tech against Big Priest doesnt mean it is against the other decks as well. Its just a good card. You also don't call Leeroy a tech card just because he summons 2 Whelps)
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This RNG Priest deck is not a matter of people playing tech cards or not playing 'smart'. You are not any more or any less skilled because of your ability to play this deck. This deck requires no real skill to pilot. There are no actual choices when choosing a minion with Eternal Solitude. You choose the one that isn't the sheep. You can't mulligan better or worse because your sole win condition is turn 4 Barnes or turn 3 with a coin.
These are high roll decks and they are not fun to play against.
yes, there are ways to beat the deck. But stop acting it's like you are a better player or others are worse players.
When any deck has a high win percentage when it hits 1 specific minion on a very specific turn, that has nothing to do with skill.
It's the same with Prince Keleseth. Hitting the Prince on turn 2 or turn 1 with the coin doesnt make you better or more skilled. It doesnt make your opponent worse for not 'playing' around a turn 2 Keleseth.
High Roll decks exist in Hearthstone. That is a fact. Many people don't find them fun to play or play against. That is a fact. The deck is beatable. Yep, fact here too.
So unless something becomes oppressive and the community has legitimate concerns and complaints, then Blizzard will not do a thing to balance it. Nerfing Barnes to 5 mana is 1 solution, but not the only one.
You can also change the Rez spells to say Summon minions that you PLAYED and then DIED this game. So that means you can't cheat out 10 drops on turn 4 or 5 because you never played the minion.
You could change Ysaarj to summon the lowest cost minion in your deck.
I am not saying we need to change anything or nerf anything. But don't play the game of 'I am better and you are worse' because you are playing a literal gambling simulator deck.
No thanks to telling people who think this deck is not fun to play against. No thanks to your 'git gud' post.
How about playing against Big Rez Priest with a class of MY choosing and see how you do. I will even let you tech it up like you wanted. Good luck with that.
Basically you had no evidence so you resorted to putting a jumbled mess of words to try to make people think ‘I wrote a lot and am insulting the person that doesn’t agree with me!’ Provide some evidence your argumentative skills are horrendous. No rebuttal whatsoever, also in my earlier statement I not only insulted your feelings, but dismantled your argument for the simple fact, that if these decks wouldn’t be so good if people were playing good, why do people consistently get top 100 legend, and a hearthstone tournament player and wild expert Control, said himself:”Big Priest is unhealthy for the game and so are decks like odd Paladin”. But I guess I didn’t make it clear, which I would think somebody who is not as “Special” as me could understand. Again get this through your dense skull and stop relying on your edited post to save you when you don’t provide substantial evidence.
To all the people saying nerf Barnes, I say fine. My deck will work just fine without him. I mostly play standard but Big priest is one of the decks I run in wild. I like to get to rank 5 in wild every season for whatever reason, and I find the deck very enjoyable. For those that actually play Big Priest would know that cards like Barnes low roll and backfire all the time. When I resurrect with 3-4 minions in my pool and guess who it is, a useless 3/4. How about the times I am struggling against aggro and coin out a shadow essence to guess what, a useless no stat 5/5. It is however super entertaining to coin out Barnes and see Yshaarj. All in all there are many decks that can wreck Big priest and my wins aren’t only because of Barnes, a good amount of my losses are though. People will start crying after Barnes gets a nerf that Vargoth needs one. I’ve had times where I was close to dying against aggro and basically pulled off a Reno Jackson with spirit lash. I had like 5 copies of Varath out. That card has become the real MVP, it’s not Barnes.
Now if you play Saronite Taskmaster and Tinkmaster Overspark, you'll run into even more problems than what you try to fix.
RenoJackson#11673
The thing is that was exactly my point in my response: To make you understand how your post looks like to a random reader. How am I supposed to talk with you when your "ubreakable point" goes in cirles around an example in my post and is reffering to Control which is yes, a pro Wild player yet so toxic and hypocritical that I wouldn't dare to make him as an example to prove any point. You can ignore my EDIT that makes it clearer/TLDR of the thread all you want but that doesnt mean that your ignoration will somehow change the topic of the thread. "Get this through your dense skull "If you dont want to accept that then theres nothing to talk about. Cheers mate^^
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With all respects to you RenoJackson, I just dont see a 1 mana 2/3 as a bad card nor a 3 mana 3/3 transform minion in other matchups. And as I made myself clear in the edit: the thread is about overall missplaying and not playing around basic stuff. Big Priest is just example.
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