Greetings. FirePaladin here with another interesting topic to discuss
Today I want to talk about low skill level even on higher ranks of Wild. Something that I havent noticed before. Maybe it has something to do with the new players entering the Wild and making in to higher ranks. Maybe its just degradation. Either way I feel that this is worth disscusion since if more players would actually play better, we wouldn't get so many complaints about everything
As any nother player I enjoy the games where skill actualy matters. The Control vs Control games or Aggro vs Aggro are just satisfying to play when you both have good draws and you both know what you are doing. Apparently this is becoming less and less common
My first thoughts about this came up a long time ago. However, the final trigger was my 2 day journey of playing Big Priest with Vargoth. I was curious about how powerfull it was and if its really superior to Barnes build. Turns out it is. Partly because of Vargoth, and partly because of the stupidity of my enemies. Around rank 5 to rank 3 on EU not a single soul played any tech card or made any good or smart desicion. There was no Saronite Taskmaster, no Tinkmaster Overspark and not even a smart play whatsoever. My Control opponents were immediately killing the Vargoth without a second thought leading to games ending soon because of me ressurecting it again. I've played against Renolocks not playing around Psychic Screams(one of those games resulted me Screaming the board of 11 Kazakus Sheeps and my opponent played Reno on next turn which was inactive.) , Odd Paladins overcomitting on board and Exodia Mages killing my Rag immediatelly. After such an experience I decided to play other decks that there were complaints about. I got the same resulsts with Kingsbane Rogue, Odd Paladin and Mechathunlock. People just weren't good. They were wasting their resources and not planning ahead. Which resulted into their defeat.
So my final thoughts about this are:
1. Before complaining. Try to actually play more carefully and learn from your mistakes.
2. USE THE TECH CARDS. We have a decks in this format that can in late game completely lock you out of game (NoFunAllowed Shamanwock,Weasel Priest,Quest Mage) and yet they can be disrupted. As any deck ever. Use your card collection
3. Play better and you will be rewarded. Yes, even in a such and RNG game like hearthstone.
EDIT: As I see by a few responses: Please before posting some hate post think actually about the topic. The Big Priest is just an example and as I said.: People were terrible against playing Kinsgbane Rogue and Mechathunlock as well. Its not only about Big Priest. Its about majority of players that are whining yet playing like a rank 50 Standard)
I consider myself a mediocre player, and because of that, I generally avoid to play Control decks (I also don't like long games unless there is a Combo to pull): I know I would make more mistakes than I could actually recognize. So I mostly play Tempo decks in Ranked.
I also apply Tech cards against my most hated foes (essentially Big Priest, but also Voidcaller Warlocks in their various forms), and I am lucky some of my main classes are Rogue (Sap) and Mage (Polymorph: Boar or just Aluneth). So, all in all, I can still survive the meta despite some BS staying in their place, since some of my decks can counter them, reliably enough.
However, the sheer existence of the other 50% of the problems in Wild prevents me from actually enjoying other options, where I cannot reliably deploy such strategies, eg Druid (surely the latest nerfs are also a cause in the case of Druids, but it's not just that). These options would actually be very good, while not top tier, if it were not for a bunch of mad synergies lurking in the meta that push them out of widespread viability (unless one is a hardcore player). And they would make the Wild meta much more varied and enjoyable than it is now.
> Consider also that being able to fight through a game based solely on the chance of having a tech at hand is also not a healthy state of things.
Surely I agree with your argument. I actually hope it is taken by more players, as it would help shaping the meta in a more healthy direction. We should also be honest tho, and accept this call will not be taken as it should.
All in all, the other 50% of the problems is the only one that can realistically be fixed, by the only ones who can, that is, the devs.
Not really. All of the Wild problems would be solved if Blizzard changed Barnes to work differently. That alone would solve the problems because that is the only problem in Wild.
I say this because everyone has their desires and likes/dislikes with regards to how the game is played or what to face, but that is all subjective. I can easily present an objective case for why Barnes is an actual problem that doesn't require me at all to delve into personal, subjective preferences.
How about you just use one of the new minions that force a minion onto Priest's side of the board? You can easily build an anti big priest deck. Adapt.
Or maybe just dont create such polarizing archetypes like Big priest or Mill rogue. You are accusing wild players in lack of skill yet Big Priest can be piloted to the legend by the braindead monkey. The deck plays itself, really.
As for tech cards... So you are telling me if I want to have a chance to win against Big priest, I have to run the tech specifically against them? No shit, Sherlock. But you know what? Anti-big priest tech SUCKS. Heres a little anecdote. Some time ago I was playing DMH warrior, and that list had 2x Cornered Sentry, just because it has good synergy with the rest of the deck. So I met a Big priest and managed to summon and kill all possible 6 raptors by turn 6, thinking it ll help. Silly me, If only would I know that Eternal Servitude counts types of dead minions, but not quantity, meaning if Priest have 1 Ysharaaj and 10 Raptors, he will have 2 choises to discover and not 11. Why? Just why? Am I supposed to play several different anti - priest techs? Thats just silly. Noone would ever do that, Big priest is not some quality higher tier deck entitled to have several techs. It is just a broken deck working on broken mechanics.
You ask why noone plays Saronite Taskmaster ? Simple, because this card is terrible against all decks BUT Big priest. Wow, lets all run tech against one deck instead of aknowledging a fact that core mechanics of it are broken and nerfing it, sure.
Not really. All of the Wild problems would be solved if Blizzard changed Barnes to work differently. That alone would solve the problems because that is the only problem in Wild.
I say this because everyone has their desires and likes/dislikes with regards to how the game is played or what to face, but that is all subjective. I can easily present an objective case for why Barnes is an actual problem that doesn't require me at all to delve into personal, subjective preferences.
That's.... just wrong. ALL of the wild problems would be solved? A bit preposterous, don't you think?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cross-server challenge-a-friend quest trading:
If you play primarily on NA, but also on EU, then maybe you are interested in cross-server trading? Whenever I get the 80g quest on NA I would love to give it away and get it on EU in return. If you'd like a long-lasting trade routine, drop me a message here on hearthpwn!
Yogg-Saron challenge: Whenever you encounter a Yogg Saron player - concede in honor and send a friend request. It takes balls to play a card that usually results in your own death. :D
I basically dislike ranking so you will usually find me in casual or memeing in low ranks.
The thing is... what you said is notorious every time in every rank. Even on these forums where just some of the replys to this topic show how right you are.
People tend to only think about what deck they are playing and not about what they face.
Ressurect Priest is actually pretty easy to mess up quite early with multiple classes, as lots of other decks are.
Some other decks people dont seem to whine about are slower but harder to counter, but you dont see anyone complaing that much about them as res priest. (And no, (Before someone tries to say this) unless I want to farm a priest quest easily I am not a Res Priest main or sth like that). I have faced many of them and find lots of ways to disrup them.
Ps: I am sorry for my english. I am from Argentina and Spanish is my native languaje. Also just woke up, so words are not right in my head right now.
Thanks for the wise words, master. You are truely the greatest player of all time. I hope Blizzard will offer you a job so you can make the game great again :^)
Rez as it currently works is a bullshit mechanic and unfun to play against. That’s it. Yes, you can build a deck specifically to beat Big Priest (and then get crushed by Odd Paladin and Kingsbane Rogue, which are stronger decks than Big Priest to begin with), but resurrecting 1/1 or even 5/5 copies of minions as full-statted minions is a broken mechanic, completely undermining game balance.
Some cards are more powerful than others. Some decks are more powerful than others. That’s as it should be and nobody is complaining about that. But the reason Big Priest (which as I said, isn’t even the best deck in wild) gets more complaints than any other archetype is because the game is frequently over on turn 5 with no opportunity for counterplay unless you have a handful of specific cards, some of which are class restricted. And Saronite Taskmaster won’t help with Eternal Servitude. Hmm, do I choose Ragnaros or a 0/3 with taunt? Hmmmm.
Compare this to aggro, which aims to end games by turn 5/6 but needs to do proactive things on the board each turn before that, providing several opportunities for each class to counter. Big Priest can often do literally nothing until turn 5 and then end the game.
Big priest player scolding other guys, claiming they aren’t skilled enough?!
Dont make fool of yourself buckalo. I've said that I tried the deck. As other people are trying the deck. There is nowhere in the history of my Hearthpwn any information that I'm Big Priest main xD Now I would like to hear your actual thoughts about the topic and not jumping into conclusions ^^
Thanks for the wise words, master. You are truely the greatest player of all time. I hope Blizzard will offer you a job so you can make the game great again :^)
No problem man ^^ Add me in game so in the future you can say that you know a Blizzard employe and a Master with a Wise words xD.
Honestly such a posts like this are adding nothing to the conversation. Now I understand why players are whining a lot and missplaying. They just seem to lack the talking and strategic skills
Or maybe just dont create such polarizing archetypes like Big priest or Mill rogue. You are accusing wild players in lack of skill yet Big Priest can be piloted to the legend by the braindead monkey. The deck plays itself, really.
As for tech cards... So you are telling me if I want to have a chance to win against Big priest, I have to run the tech specifically against them? No shit, Sherlock. But you know what? Anti-big priest tech SUCKS. Heres a little anecdote. Some time ago I was playing DMH warrior, and that list had 2x Cornered Sentry, just because it has good synergy with the rest of the deck. So I met a Big priest and managed to summon and kill all possible 6 raptors by turn 6, thinking it ll help. Silly me, If only would I know that Eternal Servitude counts types of dead minions, but not quantity, meaning if Priest have 1 Ysharaaj and 10 Raptors, he will have 2 choises to discover and not 11. Why? Just why? Am I supposed to play several different anti - priest techs? Thats just silly. Noone would ever do that, Big priest is not some quality higher tier deck entitled to have several techs. It is just a broken deck working on broken mechanics.
You ask why noone plays Saronite Taskmaster ? Simple, because this card is terrible against all decks BUT Big priest. Wow, lets all run tech against one deck instead of aknowledging a fact that core mechanics of it are broken and nerfing it, sure.
You cant just not create polarisaing archetypes. Eventually. All Wild meta will be polarising because it is and Eternal format. That something that still can't stick into Wild players heads and it just amazes me.
These techs are not only against Big Priest. Tinkmaster works also against Cubelock or other decks with fat minions. Saronite Taskmaster can't be terrible as a 1 mana 2/3 body. Its like saying Zombie Chow is bad.
Not wanting to tech against certain decks like Big Priest is like not wanting to tech an Ooze because of the decks that have weapons.
Please give me tips on how to counter Big Priest in Wild. Thx!
Any Aggro decks should get you there. From Control decks its Reno Mage or Odd Warrior. Combo decks like Mill Rogue or Exodia Mage. Overall transforming and graveyard poluting effects. Good luck ^^
Big Priest is undefendable. There is no way to weasel the deck out of criticism, even with the L2P excuse, which is new even by HS standards.
Every other deck can be teched against. Here's the difference: if I put a Dirty Rat or 2 in my deck, I am good to go with proper timing against combo decks. If I put in MC Tech and board clears, I will probably have a chance against aggro. The point of techs is that including them boosts your winrate against a certain match-up.
To beat Big Priest through deckbuilding, you need a literal whole deck built for it, and not just any deck. It needs to be Shaman or Mage, and fuck you if you play anything else. You must summon at least 3 different minions (which means 2 Saronite Taskmasters still won't work) for them to have a chance of ruining Eternal Servitude, you must have a Hex/Poly by turn 4 to prevent Barnes BS, and another transform by turn 6. You MUST never ever kill a Ragnaros or you will lose regardless. And you must get 2 huge board clears ready for the spellstones, because even if you somehow polymorph 4 minions of theirs, it will only count as 1 sheep in the ressurrection pool for reasons that are unfathomable to anyone with half a brain cell.
Say what you want about Mechathun and Odd Pally and whatever else you want, but it takes a severe amount of hypocrisy to tell people to "play better" against Big Priest.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health. - Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
I agree that there are plenty of tech cards you can play to counter big priest. However, it’s still not a guarantee that you draw them nor that they provide any useful effect due to the randomness of priesr rez options. To improve the odds, you need to run 3-4 different ones at which point you are hurting other matchups. The point is that with Barnes out of the picture everything else becomes far more fair.
And no offence, but pretty much all the decks you listed are top tier decks that people have hated on repeatedly (aside from maybe mecha’thun in wild). The other two are so refined and aggro based that ofc they’ll do great against big priest. Also, for the longest time, my tech was based more around odd pally than anything else. The deck was too oppressive so they nerfed it. So yes, we can put tech cards in our decks (which I do) but that doesn’t suddenly fix wild as there are so many things we need to tech for already.
Now if Blizz implemented hard counter tech cards like “Shuffle 10 1 cost cards into your opponent’s rez pool” or a weapon with the text “immediately destroy any 1/1 that is summoned” then you would have actual options to fully tech. Blizz did this with Geist (which I still sometime use in wild) but it got so much backlash that I doubt they’ll do it ever again.
P.S. Darkest Hour warlock is probably just as cancerous as big priest now.
I fully agree... with both points of view. Barnes into Ragnarok is almost impossible to beat with anything besides polymorph effects. However, it is possible to have a fighting chance, and to play intelligently. For example, in my home-brew Reno dragon priest, I run:
- Hungry Dragon (generates crap for them to resurrect) - Kazakus (aiming for the 5-mana polymorph effect) - Shadow Madness (being able to steal anything but a Rag on turn 4 and kill it against Barnes) - Dirty Rat + Entomb (for picking up one of their heavy hitters - never take the 4/8, though! It is irrelevant) + Shadow visions for doubling either this or the one above - and of course Psychic Scream, which should always be used to give them something like Netherspite Historians, Gluttonous Oozes, etc. smaller creatures from my deck
I used to have more tech, but I feel that these options work well against other opponents as well, and therefore do not dilute the overall plan of the deck (well, perhaps with the exception of Hungry Dragon). I still lose too often against big priest, and it is always as aggravating, but I have my fair share of wins against them as well, especially if I manage to Entomb two of their key cards.
Or...one can play aggro and win before they get to the resurrection spells;)
Graveyard decks have a unique advantage over other kinds of decks - the graveyard isn't a "zone" in HS, and the graveyard opponents can't interact with it as a result. Our "hate" cards are half-measures with respect to Resurrect decks - we can transform their big minions, or summon some minions on their side of the board. Silence is really the only counter to Egg decks and Cube decks, and the new Nine Lives decks Hunter is running in both formats. MtG has no end to the number of cards which empty graveyards - we lack such reset buttons, and since the graveyard isn't a real zone in HS, it's unlikely we will ever have those tools.
As far as the OP's opinions regarding his opponents - it's a free country (probably - I don't know where the kid lives . . .) and he can share whatever opinions he has. However, he seems perfectly disingenuous - no one should have to point out why his opponents weren't playing tech cards against a new deck. He knows why they weren't, but prefers to pretend that he has some sort of exotic knowledge about how HS ought to be played, and the rest of the shitty horde on ladder should pay attention to his wise teachings. All things considered, they are probably better off not.
I agree with you that lower skill level on wild than in standard. However, I think you should also take into account that there are much fewer players in wild (bottom of legend in wild is ~400 (Asia) compared to ~8000 in standard at the end of the month). So, a legend 100 player in wild would naturally be much worse than a legend 100 player in standard, likewise, playing in Rank 5-3 in wild would be like playing in Rank 12-10 or so of standard. I think if you play at around legend 30-50 or so in wild, you will see that players are pretty good. I also agree that you can tech to stop Kingsbane and Mechathunlock.
Although, I don't agree that tech cards can necessarily stop Big Priest. For example, in a control vs big priest matchup (lets say typical control warrior), the warrior's win condition is to exhaust the priest of all their cards and bring the game to fatigue. But, the number of threats that the priest places (through catrina muerte, mass resurrection, spellstone, eternal servitude) is simply too much for the warrior to handle (with only 2 brawls and 2 reckless flurry). So effectively, queueing into a big priest as control warrior is almost an auto concede, you'd have to tech so much that your winrate against other decks becomes garbage. On top of that, if the priest draws barnes into y'shaarj or ragnaros in the early game, and you are unable to draw answers (which is not uncommon, its only turn 4), its an auto-lose. If you lost a game like that, would it necessarily be down to skill? A tech like Tinkmaster or Saronite Taskmaster (which I don't really think is a tech) is far from enough to stop big priest, first of all, you have to draw the tech, and even if they resurrect a squirrel with spellstone, they can still resurrect a ragnaros or yshraaj alongside. On top of that, you lower your winrate against other decks.
TL:DR - Teching 1 copy of tinkmaster or saronite taskmaster in decks like control warrior cannot stop Big Priest, you'd have to literally switch your archetype to aggro or otk just to counter the sheer value of spellstone, mass resurrection etc. Imo a deck should not have that kind of effect
Greetings. FirePaladin here with another interesting topic to discuss
Today I want to talk about low skill level even on higher ranks of Wild. Something that I havent noticed before. Maybe it has something to do with the new players entering the Wild and making in to higher ranks. Maybe its just degradation. Either way I feel that this is worth disscusion since if more players would actually play better, we wouldn't get so many complaints about everything
As any nother player I enjoy the games where skill actualy matters. The Control vs Control games or Aggro vs Aggro are just satisfying to play when you both have good draws and you both know what you are doing. Apparently this is becoming less and less common
My first thoughts about this came up a long time ago. However, the final trigger was my 2 day journey of playing Big Priest with Vargoth. I was curious about how powerfull it was and if its really superior to Barnes build. Turns out it is. Partly because of Vargoth, and partly because of the stupidity of my enemies. Around rank 5 to rank 3 on EU not a single soul played any tech card or made any good or smart desicion. There was no Saronite Taskmaster, no Tinkmaster Overspark and not even a smart play whatsoever. My Control opponents were immediately killing the Vargoth without a second thought leading to games ending soon because of me ressurecting it again. I've played against Renolocks not playing around Psychic Screams(one of those games resulted me Screaming the board of 11 Kazakus Sheeps and my opponent played Reno on next turn which was inactive.) , Odd Paladins overcomitting on board and Exodia Mages killing my Rag immediatelly. After such an experience I decided to play other decks that there were complaints about. I got the same resulsts with Kingsbane Rogue, Odd Paladin and Mechathunlock. People just weren't good. They were wasting their resources and not planning ahead. Which resulted into their defeat.
So my final thoughts about this are:
1. Before complaining. Try to actually play more carefully and learn from your mistakes.
2. USE THE TECH CARDS. We have a decks in this format that can in late game completely lock you out of game (NoFunAllowed Shamanwock,Weasel Priest,Quest Mage) and yet they can be disrupted. As any deck ever. Use your card collection
3. Play better and you will be rewarded. Yes, even in a such and RNG game like hearthstone.
EDIT: As I see by a few responses: Please before posting some hate post think actually about the topic. The Big Priest is just an example and as I said.: People were terrible against playing Kinsgbane Rogue and Mechathunlock as well. Its not only about Big Priest. Its about majority of players that are whining yet playing like a rank 50 Standard)
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
I consider myself a mediocre player, and because of that, I generally avoid to play Control decks (I also don't like long games unless there is a Combo to pull): I know I would make more mistakes than I could actually recognize. So I mostly play Tempo decks in Ranked.
I also apply Tech cards against my most hated foes (essentially Big Priest, but also Voidcaller Warlocks in their various forms), and I am lucky some of my main classes are Rogue (Sap) and Mage (Polymorph: Boar or just Aluneth). So, all in all, I can still survive the meta despite some BS staying in their place, since some of my decks can counter them, reliably enough.
However, the sheer existence of the other 50% of the problems in Wild prevents me from actually enjoying other options, where I cannot reliably deploy such strategies, eg Druid (surely the latest nerfs are also a cause in the case of Druids, but it's not just that). These options would actually be very good, while not top tier, if it were not for a bunch of mad synergies lurking in the meta that push them out of widespread viability (unless one is a hardcore player). And they would make the Wild meta much more varied and enjoyable than it is now.
> Consider also that being able to fight through a game based solely on the chance of having a tech at hand is also not a healthy state of things.
Surely I agree with your argument. I actually hope it is taken by more players, as it would help shaping the meta in a more healthy direction. We should also be honest tho, and accept this call will not be taken as it should.
All in all, the other 50% of the problems is the only one that can realistically be fixed, by the only ones who can, that is, the devs.
How about you just use one of the new minions that force a minion onto Priest's side of the board? You can easily build an anti big priest deck. Adapt.
Or maybe just dont create such polarizing archetypes like Big priest or Mill rogue. You are accusing wild players in lack of skill yet Big Priest can be piloted to the legend by the braindead monkey. The deck plays itself, really.
As for tech cards... So you are telling me if I want to have a chance to win against Big priest, I have to run the tech specifically against them? No shit, Sherlock. But you know what? Anti-big priest tech SUCKS. Heres a little anecdote. Some time ago I was playing DMH warrior, and that list had 2x Cornered Sentry, just because it has good synergy with the rest of the deck. So I met a Big priest and managed to summon and kill all possible 6 raptors by turn 6, thinking it ll help. Silly me, If only would I know that Eternal Servitude counts types of dead minions, but not quantity, meaning if Priest have 1 Ysharaaj and 10 Raptors, he will have 2 choises to discover and not 11. Why? Just why? Am I supposed to play several different anti - priest techs? Thats just silly. Noone would ever do that, Big priest is not some quality higher tier deck entitled to have several techs. It is just a broken deck working on broken mechanics.
You ask why noone plays Saronite Taskmaster ? Simple, because this card is terrible against all decks BUT Big priest. Wow, lets all run tech against one deck instead of aknowledging a fact that core mechanics of it are broken and nerfing it, sure.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That's.... just wrong. ALL of the wild problems would be solved? A bit preposterous, don't you think?
Cross-server challenge-a-friend quest trading:
If you play primarily on NA, but also on EU, then maybe you are interested in cross-server trading? Whenever I get the 80g quest on NA I would love to give it away and get it on EU in return. If you'd like a long-lasting trade routine, drop me a message here on hearthpwn!
Yogg-Saron challenge:
Whenever you encounter a Yogg Saron player - concede in honor and send a friend request. It takes balls to play a card that usually results in your own death. :D
Is this topic an out of season april fools joke?
Big priest player scolding other guys, claiming they aren’t skilled enough?!
I basically dislike ranking so you will usually find me in casual or memeing in low ranks.
The thing is... what you said is notorious every time in every rank. Even on these forums where just some of the replys to this topic show how right you are.
People tend to only think about what deck they are playing and not about what they face.
Ressurect Priest is actually pretty easy to mess up quite early with multiple classes, as lots of other decks are.
Some other decks people dont seem to whine about are slower but harder to counter, but you dont see anyone complaing that much about them as res priest. (And no, (Before someone tries to say this) unless I want to farm a priest quest easily I am not a Res Priest main or sth like that). I have faced many of them and find lots of ways to disrup them.
Ps: I am sorry for my english. I am from Argentina and Spanish is my native languaje. Also just woke up, so words are not right in my head right now.
Thanks for the wise words, master. You are truely the greatest player of all time. I hope Blizzard will offer you a job so you can make the game great again :^)
lol big pri player talkin about skillz bs fakin highroll master
Rez as it currently works is a bullshit mechanic and unfun to play against. That’s it. Yes, you can build a deck specifically to beat Big Priest (and then get crushed by Odd Paladin and Kingsbane Rogue, which are stronger decks than Big Priest to begin with), but resurrecting 1/1 or even 5/5 copies of minions as full-statted minions is a broken mechanic, completely undermining game balance.
Some cards are more powerful than others. Some decks are more powerful than others. That’s as it should be and nobody is complaining about that. But the reason Big Priest (which as I said, isn’t even the best deck in wild) gets more complaints than any other archetype is because the game is frequently over on turn 5 with no opportunity for counterplay unless you have a handful of specific cards, some of which are class restricted. And Saronite Taskmaster won’t help with Eternal Servitude. Hmm, do I choose Ragnaros or a 0/3 with taunt? Hmmmm.
Compare this to aggro, which aims to end games by turn 5/6 but needs to do proactive things on the board each turn before that, providing several opportunities for each class to counter. Big Priest can often do literally nothing until turn 5 and then end the game.
Please give me tips on how to counter Big Priest in Wild. Thx!
Dont make fool of yourself buckalo. I've said that I tried the deck. As other people are trying the deck. There is nowhere in the history of my Hearthpwn any information that I'm Big Priest main xD Now I would like to hear your actual thoughts about the topic and not jumping into conclusions ^^
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
No problem man ^^ Add me in game so in the future you can say that you know a Blizzard employe and a Master with a Wise words xD.
Honestly such a posts like this are adding nothing to the conversation. Now I understand why players are whining a lot and missplaying. They just seem to lack the talking and strategic skills
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
You cant just not create polarisaing archetypes. Eventually. All Wild meta will be polarising because it is and Eternal format. That something that still can't stick into Wild players heads and it just amazes me.
These techs are not only against Big Priest. Tinkmaster works also against Cubelock or other decks with fat minions. Saronite Taskmaster can't be terrible as a 1 mana 2/3 body. Its like saying Zombie Chow is bad.
Not wanting to tech against certain decks like Big Priest is like not wanting to tech an Ooze because of the decks that have weapons.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
Any Aggro decks should get you there. From Control decks its Reno Mage or Odd Warrior. Combo decks like Mill Rogue or Exodia Mage. Overall transforming and graveyard poluting effects. Good luck ^^
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
Big Priest is undefendable. There is no way to weasel the deck out of criticism, even with the L2P excuse, which is new even by HS standards.
Every other deck can be teched against. Here's the difference: if I put a Dirty Rat or 2 in my deck, I am good to go with proper timing against combo decks. If I put in MC Tech and board clears, I will probably have a chance against aggro. The point of techs is that including them boosts your winrate against a certain match-up.
To beat Big Priest through deckbuilding, you need a literal whole deck built for it, and not just any deck. It needs to be Shaman or Mage, and fuck you if you play anything else. You must summon at least 3 different minions (which means 2 Saronite Taskmasters still won't work) for them to have a chance of ruining Eternal Servitude, you must have a Hex/Poly by turn 4 to prevent Barnes BS, and another transform by turn 6. You MUST never ever kill a Ragnaros or you will lose regardless. And you must get 2 huge board clears ready for the spellstones, because even if you somehow polymorph 4 minions of theirs, it will only count as 1 sheep in the ressurrection pool for reasons that are unfathomable to anyone with half a brain cell.
Say what you want about Mechathun and Odd Pally and whatever else you want, but it takes a severe amount of hypocrisy to tell people to "play better" against Big Priest.
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health.
- Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
I agree that there are plenty of tech cards you can play to counter big priest. However, it’s still not a guarantee that you draw them nor that they provide any useful effect due to the randomness of priesr rez options. To improve the odds, you need to run 3-4 different ones at which point you are hurting other matchups. The point is that with Barnes out of the picture everything else becomes far more fair.
And no offence, but pretty much all the decks you listed are top tier decks that people have hated on repeatedly (aside from maybe mecha’thun in wild). The other two are so refined and aggro based that ofc they’ll do great against big priest. Also, for the longest time, my tech was based more around odd pally than anything else. The deck was too oppressive so they nerfed it. So yes, we can put tech cards in our decks (which I do) but that doesn’t suddenly fix wild as there are so many things we need to tech for already.
Now if Blizz implemented hard counter tech cards like “Shuffle 10 1 cost cards into your opponent’s rez pool” or a weapon with the text “immediately destroy any 1/1 that is summoned” then you would have actual options to fully tech. Blizz did this with Geist (which I still sometime use in wild) but it got so much backlash that I doubt they’ll do it ever again.
P.S. Darkest Hour warlock is probably just as cancerous as big priest now.
I fully agree... with both points of view. Barnes into Ragnarok is almost impossible to beat with anything besides polymorph effects. However, it is possible to have a fighting chance, and to play intelligently. For example, in my home-brew Reno dragon priest, I run:
- Hungry Dragon (generates crap for them to resurrect)
- Kazakus (aiming for the 5-mana polymorph effect)
- Shadow Madness (being able to steal anything but a Rag on turn 4 and kill it against Barnes)
- Dirty Rat + Entomb (for picking up one of their heavy hitters - never take the 4/8, though! It is irrelevant) + Shadow visions for doubling either this or the one above
- and of course Psychic Scream, which should always be used to give them something like Netherspite Historians, Gluttonous Oozes, etc. smaller creatures from my deck
I used to have more tech, but I feel that these options work well against other opponents as well, and therefore do not dilute the overall plan of the deck (well, perhaps with the exception of Hungry Dragon). I still lose too often against big priest, and it is always as aggravating, but I have my fair share of wins against them as well, especially if I manage to Entomb two of their key cards.
Or...one can play aggro and win before they get to the resurrection spells;)
Graveyard decks have a unique advantage over other kinds of decks - the graveyard isn't a "zone" in HS, and the graveyard opponents can't interact with it as a result. Our "hate" cards are half-measures with respect to Resurrect decks - we can transform their big minions, or summon some minions on their side of the board. Silence is really the only counter to Egg decks and Cube decks, and the new Nine Lives decks Hunter is running in both formats. MtG has no end to the number of cards which empty graveyards - we lack such reset buttons, and since the graveyard isn't a real zone in HS, it's unlikely we will ever have those tools.
As far as the OP's opinions regarding his opponents - it's a free country (probably - I don't know where the kid lives . . .) and he can share whatever opinions he has. However, he seems perfectly disingenuous - no one should have to point out why his opponents weren't playing tech cards against a new deck. He knows why they weren't, but prefers to pretend that he has some sort of exotic knowledge about how HS ought to be played, and the rest of the shitty horde on ladder should pay attention to his wise teachings. All things considered, they are probably better off not.
I agree with you that lower skill level on wild than in standard. However, I think you should also take into account that there are much fewer players in wild (bottom of legend in wild is ~400 (Asia) compared to ~8000 in standard at the end of the month). So, a legend 100 player in wild would naturally be much worse than a legend 100 player in standard, likewise, playing in Rank 5-3 in wild would be like playing in Rank 12-10 or so of standard. I think if you play at around legend 30-50 or so in wild, you will see that players are pretty good. I also agree that you can tech to stop Kingsbane and Mechathunlock.
Although, I don't agree that tech cards can necessarily stop Big Priest. For example, in a control vs big priest matchup (lets say typical control warrior), the warrior's win condition is to exhaust the priest of all their cards and bring the game to fatigue. But, the number of threats that the priest places (through catrina muerte, mass resurrection, spellstone, eternal servitude) is simply too much for the warrior to handle (with only 2 brawls and 2 reckless flurry). So effectively, queueing into a big priest as control warrior is almost an auto concede, you'd have to tech so much that your winrate against other decks becomes garbage. On top of that, if the priest draws barnes into y'shaarj or ragnaros in the early game, and you are unable to draw answers (which is not uncommon, its only turn 4), its an auto-lose. If you lost a game like that, would it necessarily be down to skill? A tech like Tinkmaster or Saronite Taskmaster (which I don't really think is a tech) is far from enough to stop big priest, first of all, you have to draw the tech, and even if they resurrect a squirrel with spellstone, they can still resurrect a ragnaros or yshraaj alongside. On top of that, you lower your winrate against other decks.
TL:DR - Teching 1 copy of tinkmaster or saronite taskmaster in decks like control warrior cannot stop Big Priest, you'd have to literally switch your archetype to aggro or otk just to counter the sheer value of spellstone, mass resurrection etc. Imo a deck should not have that kind of effect