Just played 2 games in wild, first vs big priest, second to even shaman. I lost both with my reno priest. The big priest had barnes on 4.
I don't know why nobody would complain about even Shaman but both matches felt pretty one sided. Both matches where going on untill around turn 20. The game plan/tactic vs both decks is different, but vs big priest they just got lucky to get 3 times y'sara (or how you write it, the 10/10).
The even shaman just kept vometting out minions (somtimes big, sometimes small) until I ran out of counters.
So for my personal opinion the both are on the same level of broken, just in a different way...
With Even Shaman, you should be favored when you playing Reno Priest. Can I see your decklist? I win most of my games against them.
This... Every reno control deck should be decent counter to even shaman... I have around 65% wr vs them with renolock. Same should be with reno priest... You have so many heals and board clears. Only problem is will you let them go wide and clear board or not to let them go wide :)
Odd Rogue and Even Shaman are relatively simple decks. And powerful. They also use some OP cards that could go with a nerf.
But they are not highroll, ********, and outright broken as Big Priest is. Not even close.
Big Priest does not need a nerf. It needs to be reduced to meme level.
Sorry, but where is Even shaman not broken: 70% winrate is not broken: Having now teching in Burst with windfury that allows them to deal 14 damage with their 4 mana 7/7 is ok. Yet big priest is outright broken when they at least have some hard counter (Never really lost with mill rogue against big priest; except for missplays)
And Odd Rogue simply destroys the opponent turn 1-2 with their weapon and aggro you down thanks to the pirate-package. And yet, everything ok here too. Barnes really need a nerf, and just for opening up space for other control-type priest-decks too that are hard-countered by big priest.
And sorry, but where is even-shaman fair? I play it often enough to rank up to rank 5; and it's not fair at all. Turn 1 totem, turn 2 Totem Golem, Turn 3 you use flametongue-totem and totally destroy the enemy board with both totems, turn 4 4 mana 7/7, turn 5 totem and Thing from Below. So really, what's fair and balanced in this case (and yes, this exact thing happens often enough to count. Not forgetting the burst from Windspeaker and Windfury-spell, Crackle and Jade Lightning. And Jade Claws can deal with nearly everything on turn 1/2.
And if you want to nerf it to meme-level then you really only want to rant against it. The only real issue of Big Priest is Barnes; this card is really ******** in this deck, but the rest not really.
What i would have wanted since LONG TIME is a tech-card against big priest, something that summons worthless tokens on the enemy board. This would make random-resurrections far more unstable and people could tech them in and make big priest far more unreliable. Or a card that deals with the graveyard: One example: A Battlecry that let resurrection-effects summon random minions instead of the one that died for the rest of the game; this would make big priest as reliable as evolve-shaman. This, together with Loatheb could totally destroy Big Priest; yet you would still need to tech it in. Hearthstone needs more tech-cards against popular decks instead of adding more and more filler-cards (or a filler-expansion like Rastakhans Rumble)
Still: 70% winrate-shaman is fine, but Big Priest with a much lower winrate isn't? Sorry, but no, rationally I can't really understand this.
There is. The new Saronite Taskmaster can easily be run in Odd Rogue.
Even Shaman and Odd Rogue are basically aggro/midrange, they're pretty straight forward decks that actually don't have a lot of the 'cheating' Wild is known for having. No full heals from 2 life, no infinite 10+ attack weapon with lifesteal, no getting a 8+ drop almost every single turn starting on turn 4-5 because of the resurrection mechanic. They just have a slightly better than average hero power, that's it. Honestly, I think the Odd/Even decks as a whole don't even need to be Odd/Even, I could build versions of these decks that would be just as good, potentially better, without Baku/Genn respectively, the only difference would be the hero power not being upgraded in some way. That might matter, but I don't think it does. Aggro in Wild is probably the only balanced thing about this game mode, these decks just have a massive win rate because they both shit on the best deck in the format currently, the second Big Priest gets nerfed(if it gets nerfed, since it took Kingsbane coming back into Standard to get Blizzard to nerf that deck), the those decks will fall off too since they will be easy prey for every Reno deck in the format.
Odd Rogue and Even Shaman are relatively simple decks. And powerful. They also use some OP cards that could go with a nerf.
But they are not highroll, ********, and outright broken as Big Priest is. Not even close.
Big Priest does not need a nerf. It needs to be reduced to meme level.
Sorry, but where is Even shaman not broken: 70% winrate is not broken: Having now teching in Burst with windfury that allows them to deal 14 damage with their 4 mana 7/7 is ok. Yet big priest is outright broken when they at least have some hard counter (Never really lost with mill rogue against big priest; except for missplays)
And Odd Rogue simply destroys the opponent turn 1-2 with their weapon and aggro you down thanks to the pirate-package. And yet, everything ok here too. Barnes really need a nerf, and just for opening up space for other control-type priest-decks too that are hard-countered by big priest.
And sorry, but where is even-shaman fair? I play it often enough to rank up to rank 5; and it's not fair at all. Turn 1 totem, turn 2 Totem Golem, Turn 3 you use flametongue-totem and totally destroy the enemy board with both totems, turn 4 4 mana 7/7, turn 5 totem and Thing from Below. So really, what's fair and balanced in this case (and yes, this exact thing happens often enough to count. Not forgetting the burst from Windspeaker and Windfury-spell, Crackle and Jade Lightning. And Jade Claws can deal with nearly everything on turn 1/2.
And if you want to nerf it to meme-level then you really only want to rant against it. The only real issue of Big Priest is Barnes; this card is really ******** in this deck, but the rest not really.
What i would have wanted since LONG TIME is a tech-card against big priest, something that summons worthless tokens on the enemy board. This would make random-resurrections far more unstable and people could tech them in and make big priest far more unreliable. Or a card that deals with the graveyard: One example: A Battlecry that let resurrection-effects summon random minions instead of the one that died for the rest of the game; this would make big priest as reliable as evolve-shaman. This, together with Loatheb could totally destroy Big Priest; yet you would still need to tech it in. Hearthstone needs more tech-cards against popular decks instead of adding more and more filler-cards (or a filler-expansion like Rastakhans Rumble)
Still: 70% winrate-shaman is fine, but Big Priest with a much lower winrate isn't? Sorry, but no, rationally I can't really understand this.
There is. The new Saronite Taskmaster can easily be run in Odd Rogue.
Actually, there are a lot more cards than just that. I happened to look it up recently and was surprised by how many there were. Not saying that most of them are good cards though.
Despite this thread being over a week old, I sure don't like cherry picking.
If you actually look OP, you'll see that the majority of suggestions on how to fix wild (at least on this website) mention how Barnes, Baku AND Genn are all extremely problematic cards for the format.
Big priest is on top of the list because out of those three archetypes it is the most unfun, uninteractive highrolling deck. That, in no way, means that Even shaman and Odd rogue are lagging much behind, ESPECIALLY even shaman. It's just that the most bullshit deck, which again, is big priest, but by very tiny margin, is usually the one which receives the most flak.
Sidenote: if you run and/or complain about a windfury package in Even shaman, then you're a horrible Even shaman player, which is honestly amazing given how much of an autopilot/easy-mode the deck is.
Even Shaman destroys Big Priest. What is there to complain about exactly?
Hmmm... no? How is Even Shaman supposed to overcome all that AoE removal?
Maybe by not overcomitting the entire board & playing into every board clear? I'm not sure what to make of your question.
Also, Big Priest isn't guaranteed to draw their aoe in time either. Just because they can highroll doesn't mean they will. It's called highrolling for a reason.
Odd Rogue and Even Shaman are relatively simple decks. And powerful. They also use some OP cards that could go with a nerf.
But they are not highroll, ********, and outright broken as Big Priest is. Not even close.
Big Priest does not need a nerf. It needs to be reduced to meme level.
Sorry, but where is Even shaman not broken: 70% winrate is not broken: Having now teching in Burst with windfury that allows them to deal 14 damage with their 4 mana 7/7 is ok. Yet big priest is outright broken when they at least have some hard counter (Never really lost with mill rogue against big priest; except for missplays)
And Odd Rogue simply destroys the opponent turn 1-2 with their weapon and aggro you down thanks to the pirate-package. And yet, everything ok here too. Barnes really need a nerf, and just for opening up space for other control-type priest-decks too that are hard-countered by big priest.
And sorry, but where is even-shaman fair? I play it often enough to rank up to rank 5; and it's not fair at all. Turn 1 totem, turn 2 Totem Golem, Turn 3 you use flametongue-totem and totally destroy the enemy board with both totems, turn 4 4 mana 7/7, turn 5 totem and Thing from Below. So really, what's fair and balanced in this case (and yes, this exact thing happens often enough to count. Not forgetting the burst from Windspeaker and Windfury-spell, Crackle and Jade Lightning. And Jade Claws can deal with nearly everything on turn 1/2.
And if you want to nerf it to meme-level then you really only want to rant against it. The only real issue of Big Priest is Barnes; this card is really ******** in this deck, but the rest not really.
What i would have wanted since LONG TIME is a tech-card against big priest, something that summons worthless tokens on the enemy board. This would make random-resurrections far more unstable and people could tech them in and make big priest far more unreliable. Or a card that deals with the graveyard: One example: A Battlecry that let resurrection-effects summon random minions instead of the one that died for the rest of the game; this would make big priest as reliable as evolve-shaman. This, together with Loatheb could totally destroy Big Priest; yet you would still need to tech it in. Hearthstone needs more tech-cards against popular decks instead of adding more and more filler-cards (or a filler-expansion like Rastakhans Rumble)
Still: 70% winrate-shaman is fine, but Big Priest with a much lower winrate isn't? Sorry, but no, rationally I can't really understand this.
There is. The new Saronite Taskmaster can easily be run in Odd Rogue.
Actually, there are a lot more cards than just that. I happened to look it up recently and was surprised by how many there were. Not saying that most of them are good cards though.
Thats why i pointed this out, because it is actually usable and provides a good counter against big priest. It very bad against Even Shaman tho, because Flametongue is a card and every token discounts their Sea Giants.
Even Shaman is a really good deck, has an extremely high win-rate, and is played a lot in ranked. I hate playing against it with almost all of my wild decks.
However, I don't think anything in hearthstone needs to be nerfed right now- especially in wild. #letwildbewild
Even Shaman is a really good deck, has an extremely high win-rate, and is played a lot in ranked. I hate playing against it with almost all of my wild decks.
However, I don't think anything in hearthstone needs to be nerfed right now- especially in wild. #letwildbewild
Oh please don't use this silly phrase: wild is not here for nostalgika, it's supposed to be a competitive mode for players who simply want to play ALL CARDS that exist in hearthstone and don't want to play the game: throw all your cards away after 2 years so that we can make more money-game blizzard plays.
Even Shaman is a really good deck, has an extremely high win-rate, and is played a lot in ranked. I hate playing against it with almost all of my wild decks.
However, I don't think anything in hearthstone needs to be nerfed right now- especially in wild. #letwildbewild
Oh please don't use this silly phrase: wild is not here for nostalgika, it's supposed to be a competitive mode for players who simply want to play ALL CARDS that exist in hearthstone and don't want to play the game: throw all your cards away after 2 years so that we can make more money-game blizzard plays.
Exactly. I used to like playing cards like Aviana (the first legendary I crafted), Naga sea witch (spent $20 on LOE for this card), and Yogg; and due to unnecessary nerfs, I can't play these once competitive cards I spent good money on anymore.
When I started playing, I used to play mostly patron warrior and big druid. These decks were never standalone tier 1 decks. In fact, according to the data I saw, star aligner druid had a lower win-rate than even shaman, and typically lost to even shaman when blizz recently decided to nuke 3 staple cards of the deck. So logically, people stopped playing the druid deck, and picked up even shaman. If even shaman gets nerfed, you will see the same thing happen to odd rogue as even shaman in time (people complaining its such a good deck, and has such a high winrate, and blizzard needs to do something about it).
Wild is fun, because there are so many tools available to interact with your opponents deck, hand, and board; or tools to try to hit your opponent in the face faster than they can hit you. Remember all those OP decks that plagued the meta over the years (renolock, jade druid, big priest, pirate warrior, odd paladin, handlock [now called evenlock] burn mage, barnes hunter, zoolock, exodia mage, controlock, miracle rogue, etc)? Many of them do pretty well vs even shaman and on the ladder in general. If you want to play all your cards you should :) I guarantee you can find a deck to climb with other than even-shaman.
(source: I have climbed 6 ranks in wild the past couple days without playing even-shaman)
I find Even Shaman and Odd Rogue to be incredibly frustrating there's just no point in complaining about them all the time because they're not going to get nerfed. Our only hope is that control decks get better cards to deal with them in the future.
Even Shaman is a really good deck, has an extremely high win-rate, and is played a lot in ranked. I hate playing against it with almost all of my wild decks.
However, I don't think anything in hearthstone needs to be nerfed right now- especially in wild. #letwildbewild
Oh please don't use this silly phrase: wild is not here for nostalgika, it's supposed to be a competitive mode for players who simply want to play ALL CARDS that exist in hearthstone and don't want to play the game: throw all your cards away after 2 years so that we can make more money-game blizzard plays.
Exactly. I used to like playing cards like Aviana (the first legendary I crafted), Naga sea witch (spent $20 on LOE for this card), and Yogg; and due to unnecessary nerfs, I can't play these once competitive cards I spent good money on anymore.
When I started playing, I used to play mostly patron warrior and big druid. These decks were never standalone tier 1 decks. In fact, according to the data I saw, star aligner druid had a lower win-rate than even shaman, and typically lost to even shaman when blizz recently decided to nuke 3 staple cards of the deck. So logically, people stopped playing the druid deck, and picked up even shaman. If even shaman gets nerfed, you will see the same thing happen to odd rogue as even shaman in time (people complaining its such a good deck, and has such a high winrate, and blizzard needs to do something about it).
Wild is fun, because there are so many tools available to interact with your opponents deck, hand, and board; or tools to try to hit your opponent in the face faster than they can hit you. Remember all those OP decks that plagued the meta over the years (renolock, jade druid, big priest, pirate warrior, odd paladin, handlock [now called evenlock] burn mage, barnes hunter, zoolock, exodia mage, controlock, miracle rogue, etc)? Many of them do pretty well vs even shaman and on the ladder in general. If you want to play all your cards you should :) I guarantee you can find a deck to climb with other than even-shaman.
(source: I have climbed 6 ranks in wild the past couple days without playing even-shaman)
I have good results with dragon priest and odd warrior against oddroque and Even Shaman. There are good counters against those decks. However it Amy be nerfed i think kingsbane is still a problematic card nu itself. It,s easily buffer and easily drawn again and u simply can,t get rid off it most games. I think most people complain about big priest because it deels stupid to lose against a coinflip and getting overwhelmed with just a 2or 4 mana resurrectcard. It,s still exactly the same deck as ever before without any cards the new expansion have to offer. Personally i just concede if they play Barnes at turn 4(or3 with coin). The game is just over at that point.
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Just played 2 games in wild, first vs big priest, second to even shaman. I lost both with my reno priest. The big priest had barnes on 4.
I don't know why nobody would complain about even Shaman but both matches felt pretty one sided. Both matches where going on untill around turn 20. The game plan/tactic vs both decks is different, but vs big priest they just got lucky to get 3 times y'sara (or how you write it, the 10/10).
The even shaman just kept vometting out minions (somtimes big, sometimes small) until I ran out of counters.
So for my personal opinion the both are on the same level of broken, just in a different way...
With Even Shaman, you should be favored when you playing Reno Priest. Can I see your decklist? I win most of my games against them.
This... Every reno control deck should be decent counter to even shaman... I have around 65% wr vs them with renolock. Same should be with reno priest... You have so many heals and board clears. Only problem is will you let them go wide and clear board or not to let them go wide :)
Yes you win most games vs them, but sometimes you draw bad and/or they draw great. It happens. Same vs big priest.
Because it was the discussion if there shouldn't be more complaining on even shaman I thought this should add to the discussion.
There is. The new Saronite Taskmaster can easily be run in Odd Rogue.
Always expect the unexpectable!
Even Shaman destroys Big Priest. What is there to complain about exactly?
Even Shaman and Odd Rogue are basically aggro/midrange, they're pretty straight forward decks that actually don't have a lot of the 'cheating' Wild is known for having.
No full heals from 2 life, no infinite 10+ attack weapon with lifesteal, no getting a 8+ drop almost every single turn starting on turn 4-5 because of the resurrection mechanic.
They just have a slightly better than average hero power, that's it.
Honestly, I think the Odd/Even decks as a whole don't even need to be Odd/Even, I could build versions of these decks that would be just as good, potentially better, without Baku/Genn respectively, the only difference would be the hero power not being upgraded in some way. That might matter, but I don't think it does.
Aggro in Wild is probably the only balanced thing about this game mode, these decks just have a massive win rate because they both shit on the best deck in the format currently, the second Big Priest gets nerfed(if it gets nerfed, since it took Kingsbane coming back into Standard to get Blizzard to nerf that deck), the those decks will fall off too since they will be easy prey for every Reno deck in the format.
https://hsreplay.net/decks/#gameType=RANKED_WILD
From this it seems like half the people in Wild are playing Even Shaman. Yuck.
which odd rogue is it in wild, the one with the full patches package?
Actually, there are a lot more cards than just that. I happened to look it up recently and was surprised by how many there were. Not saying that most of them are good cards though.
Despite this thread being over a week old, I sure don't like cherry picking.
If you actually look OP, you'll see that the majority of suggestions on how to fix wild (at least on this website) mention how Barnes, Baku AND Genn are all extremely problematic cards for the format.
Big priest is on top of the list because out of those three archetypes it is the most unfun, uninteractive highrolling deck. That, in no way, means that Even shaman and Odd rogue are lagging much behind, ESPECIALLY even shaman. It's just that the most bullshit deck, which again, is big priest, but by very tiny margin, is usually the one which receives the most flak.
Sidenote: if you run and/or complain about a windfury package in Even shaman, then you're a horrible Even shaman player, which is honestly amazing given how much of an autopilot/easy-mode the deck is.
Hmmm... no? How is Even Shaman supposed to overcome all that AoE removal?
Maybe by not overcomitting the entire board & playing into every board clear? I'm not sure what to make of your question.
Also, Big Priest isn't guaranteed to draw their aoe in time either. Just because they can highroll doesn't mean they will. It's called highrolling for a reason.
Thats why i pointed this out, because it is actually usable and provides a good counter against big priest. It very bad against Even Shaman tho, because Flametongue is a card and every token discounts their Sea Giants.
Always expect the unexpectable!
Even Shaman is a really good deck, has an extremely high win-rate, and is played a lot in ranked. I hate playing against it with almost all of my wild decks.
However, I don't think anything in hearthstone needs to be nerfed right now- especially in wild. #letwildbewild
Oh please don't use this silly phrase: wild is not here for nostalgika, it's supposed to be a competitive mode for players who simply want to play ALL CARDS that exist in hearthstone and don't want to play the game: throw all your cards away after 2 years so that we can make more money-game blizzard plays.
Exactly. I used to like playing cards like Aviana (the first legendary I crafted), Naga sea witch (spent $20 on LOE for this card), and Yogg; and due to unnecessary nerfs, I can't play these once competitive cards I spent good money on anymore.
When I started playing, I used to play mostly patron warrior and big druid. These decks were never standalone tier 1 decks. In fact, according to the data I saw, star aligner druid had a lower win-rate than even shaman, and typically lost to even shaman when blizz recently decided to nuke 3 staple cards of the deck. So logically, people stopped playing the druid deck, and picked up even shaman. If even shaman gets nerfed, you will see the same thing happen to odd rogue as even shaman in time (people complaining its such a good deck, and has such a high winrate, and blizzard needs to do something about it).
Wild is fun, because there are so many tools available to interact with your opponents deck, hand, and board; or tools to try to hit your opponent in the face faster than they can hit you. Remember all those OP decks that plagued the meta over the years (renolock, jade druid, big priest, pirate warrior, odd paladin, handlock [now called evenlock] burn mage, barnes hunter, zoolock, exodia mage, controlock, miracle rogue, etc)? Many of them do pretty well vs even shaman and on the ladder in general. If you want to play all your cards you should :) I guarantee you can find a deck to climb with other than even-shaman.
(source: I have climbed 6 ranks in wild the past couple days without playing even-shaman)
I find Even Shaman and Odd Rogue to be incredibly frustrating there's just no point in complaining about them all the time because they're not going to get nerfed. Our only hope is that control decks get better cards to deal with them in the future.
How so ? I can't find any data but Patron Warrior was certainly tier 1.
I have good results with dragon priest and odd warrior against oddroque and Even Shaman. There are good counters against those decks. However it Amy be nerfed i think kingsbane is still a problematic card nu itself. It,s easily buffer and easily drawn again and u simply can,t get rid off it most games. I think most people complain about big priest because it deels stupid to lose against a coinflip and getting overwhelmed with just a 2or 4 mana resurrectcard. It,s still exactly the same deck as ever before without any cards the new expansion have to offer. Personally i just concede if they play Barnes at turn 4(or3 with coin). The game is just over at that point.