In Wild normal Play mode, depending on the day, about 1/3 to 1/4 of my games are against some form of Big Priest. It peaked yesterday when about 10/13 of my games were against Big Priest. This is a real glaring issue with Wild right now.
I’d like to clarify that I have nothing against (most) meta decks and the people that play them. However, I hold a definite grudge against people who play the Solitaire archetypes: Mill Rogue, Freezemage, Big Priest, Mecha’Thun Warlock, etc. These decks usually have sufficient counters to keep their winrates and playrates down. Big Priest really does not. It shits on everything: control, aggro, midrange. There is no definable counter to the archetype, in fact, it’s completely down to their Barnes rolls, or their opening hand if they get enough early removal versus aggro. There is no counterplay to it and no viable tech for it.
In my opinion, the main problem is *not* the Resurrect mechanic in itself, or Priest’s ability to stall to drop a shit ton of large minions. Resurrect, as a card and as an effect, used to be for the most part random. Then Eternal Servitude came out. The glaring issue with Eternal Servitude is that you can *pick* what to bring back. So even if you manage to hold on to both of your Hexes as Shaman, for example, and you Hex their biggest targets, if they can stick at least one of their big minions to the board, you’re still skewered by the ability for them to decide what to bring back. The Hexes mean nothing, whereas, Hex was extremely strong against earlier forms of the Res Priest. Eternal Servitude is *too* consistent, and with the rest of the tools offered to the archetype, allows way too much of a suffocating force for Priest to use in an archetype that should be fully about late game. Big Priest no longer needs to stall out as long, and they no longer need to rely on complete RNG.
I know that Blizzard cares little for the sanctity of the Wild format, but this archetype is a serious, serious problem. It’s unhealthy, it’s stale, and it’s just plain unfun to play and to face. Especially when so much of the recent Wild format is *just* Big Priest. I’m extremely sick of it.
I know that Blizzard cares little for the sanctity of the Wild format, but this archetype is a serious, serious problem. It’s unhealthy, it’s stale, and it’s just plain unfun to play and to face. Especially when so much of the recent Wild format is *just* Big Priest. I’m extremely sick of it.
I cutted the blubber out: yes, big priest is a strong deck, but lets stay with the FACTS: Winrate of big priest is even with the best decks right now around 60-62%, while Odd rogue is around 68% and Even shaman consistent around 70%. That's insane.
The rest of your text is simply a rant and should be posted in the salt-forums. Nearly nobody complains about how OP Odd Rogue or Even Shaman is, but Big Priest, with a much lower winrate is the problem? Sorry, but NO. Yes, i want Barnes to be nerfed too, and that's said from a Priest-Player from vanilla to now. But ranting again and again how big priest is a problem and ignoring the fact that Even Shaman and Odd Rogue is totally dominating the meta is totally ignored makes me angry.
Infinite Value decks like Jade Druid completely shit on Big Priest. So do all combo decks.
It's definitely very strong imo, but there are counters to it.
Also, it's far from a solitaire deck. It plays just like a control deck, but your win con is resurrecting. Lots of decisions to make with board clears, one must know the opponent's deck very well to ensure wins. It's not always just resurrect and win. Barnes on 4 isn't always a guaranteed win either.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Nature is the Day. Man is the Sun. Woman is the Moon. The Stone is the Sky. The Art is the Way.
They killed Kingsbane, so now it's free to rant all day long...
It's around for so long, even everybody knows that the resurrect-mechanic is broken like every mana-cheat-card (Skull, Oondasta, Hooktusk, Oakheart...)
I don't even care if it is strong. As people often forget there are situations where even a weak deck is an unhealthy one. The fact that you have a deck completely based on drawing specific cards, that cannot function in ANY way without said cards, is an issue in itself because it creates a polarized situation of extreme high rolls or complete flops. That said it is also true that Big Priest is an absolute auto piloting deck, you completely ignore the enemy game plan when playing it since the sole purpose is to put your minions out on the board whether the enemy is Aggro or OTK.
I must be doing something wrong, because every Jade Druid deck I play can’t hope to outvalue Big Priest if they can get their Eternal Servitude shenanigans rolling. How can Jade Druid hope to beat 3 Lich King/Y’Shaarj/Obsidian Statue/Velen in a row? There aren’t enough solid removal options available to Druid if Big Priest gets what they want off of Barnes, and even if they don’t you need to at least tech in both Naturalize and Mulch to even hope to keep up, and that’s if you even draw them.
Barnes is a problem, sure, but I think the main problem is Eternal Servitude. The effect is overtuned.
Barnes is completely based on RNG, whereas Eternal Servitude can guarantee a 10-Mana wincon minion for 4 Mana, after you already had to remove it. That’s disgusting levels of value. Eternal Servitude is a cool card, but has way too many problem spots in its current form to stay how it is.
If they want to keep it at 4 mana, they need to change the effect in some way, or they need to up the Mana cost for the effect it has. At least 7 Mana, in my opinion.
I included the fact that just because a deck is or is not meta, and is or is not the top-winrate deck, does NOT implicate it as healthy/unhealthy to the game state. Jade Druid, as a deck, was only Tier 1 for a very short time, and yet Jade Idol as a card is completely unhealthy for the game and will remain that way. The winrate of Jade Druid in Wild continues to drop, but this does not change the fact that Jade Idol is an effect that thins the design space. This is an argument that I will always hold to, as cards that have polarizing and egregiously strong effects will remain that way, regardless of the deck winrates that include them.
Regardless, your counterpoint that “nobody complains about Even Shaman/Odd Rogue/insert deck here” is flawed, since I happen to have seen PLENTY of discussion surrounding the Even/Odd mechanics as a whole and how they harm competitive diversity. Even Shaman is insanely strong, but no one card in its list (besides Genn and the Even mechanic in general) cramps the design space. This is completely different in regards to cards like Eternal Servitude, or Barnes, or Jade Idol, or Kingsbane, or any other card you could argue has a game-limiting effect.
Blizzard fucked everything up when they continued to print insane big priest cards even after it was already rly good. In kft you could realistically control out the game with a solid control mage/warlock. But these days even if you poly/hex half their threats and remove multiple resurrected minions theyll just drop 3 spellstones and completely steamroll you.
To fix Big Priest would be quite simple, either you nerf Barnes, the simple solution. The more complicated one would be that blizzard would change the resurrection-mechanic; not allowing to resurrect minions below the amount of mana crystals you have. So you can resurrect the Lich King only when your amount of mana crystals reach 8, so normally on turn 8, except you get for example countered by Mojomaster Zihi or get it out earlier with Biology Project
But let's be realistic: what will probably happen is simply by nerfing barnes: Nerf Barnes to 6 mana or pulling out only a minion with 6 mana or lower and it's fixed.
Infinite Value decks like Jade Druid completely shit on Big Priest. So do all combo decks.
It's definitely very strong imo, but there are counters to it.
Also, it's far from a solitaire deck. It plays just like a control deck, but your win con is resurrecting. Lots of decisions to make with board clears, one must know the opponent's deck very well to ensure wins. It's not always just resurrect and win. Barnes on 4 isn't always a guaranteed win either.
You're so wrong on so many levels that the only conclusion I could possibly draw here is that you yourself are a big priest player.
Even Shaman is insanely strong, but no one card in its list (besides Genn and the Even mechanic in general) cramps the design space. This is completely different in regards to cards like Eternal Servitude, or Barnes, or Jade Idol, or Kingsbane, or any other card you could argue has a game-limiting effect.
Just out of curiosity, what do you mean with limiting design space, specifically about the cards you mention in the second sentence?
Eternal Servitude doesn't limit design, Barnes technically should have limited designed, but has not limited and that is the reason we have Big Priest and the sole problematic card in that deck. Jade Idol didn't limit design space at all, there is no card design that cannot be considered because it exists, and on top of that, it created space for specific designs against it. Kingsbane somewhat limits design space solely with regards to what kind of Weapon enchantments can be printed. They cannot print any insanely powerful enchantment which breaks the game in fatigue mode, since otherwise, Kingsbane's ability is not even relevant, solely in fatigue mode.
Genn and Baku do seriously limit design space for anything in it's respective restriction that creates broken combinations cannot therefore be given that cost.
Eternal Servitude limits the design space in that there is only so much you can introduce in terms of Deathrattle before the effect becomes overbearing (hint: it already is). No other resurrection effect has this problem, besides maybe the Spellstone. If, for example, they were to print a very strong 3 Mana Deathrattle card, you wouldn’t even need to play the Big Priest archetype to take advantage of how disgusting Servitude is, you could just play a tempo or midrange Deathrattle Priest and pop Servitude on curve.
The problem is not Barnes, because with previous Resurrect cards you could just remove Barnes as well and screw the Priest if they low-rolled Barnes on their Res. The problem is Eternal Servitude’s consistency. The problem is Priest’s low-cost value plays. Shaman’s resurrection mechanics, for example, basically require you to stick Big minions on the board for at least one turn, or lose some of their value in order to get them to return (see: Sylvanas into Reincarnate).
A possibility could be that you could have Eternal Servitude only able to discover a minion that died *last turn*. That would reduce the consistency somewhat and open opportunities to hinder Big Priest’s ability to steamroll at all points in the game.
just play even shaman then. i don't play wild very often but that deck is just disgusting and i feel bad for all wild players that have to deal with this abomination for the rest of their hearthstone careers as it will only become stronger too xD
There are plenty of counters and tech cards for big priest. I've been playing Reno priest in wild lately and teched in a lot of ways to deal with big threats and a potion of madness to deal with Barnes on turn 4 and haven't lost against one since.
Totally agree that this deck is an auto-pilot. And please don't tell me shit about board clears and thinking. You can make that example for aggro too and how to avoid them.
It doesn't matter how much the win rate is, because the deck is just unhealty for any meta, to play with or face.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
In Wild normal Play mode, depending on the day, about 1/3 to 1/4 of my games are against some form of Big Priest. It peaked yesterday when about 10/13 of my games were against Big Priest. This is a real glaring issue with Wild right now.
I’d like to clarify that I have nothing against (most) meta decks and the people that play them. However, I hold a definite grudge against people who play the Solitaire archetypes: Mill Rogue, Freezemage, Big Priest, Mecha’Thun Warlock, etc. These decks usually have sufficient counters to keep their winrates and playrates down. Big Priest really does not. It shits on everything: control, aggro, midrange. There is no definable counter to the archetype, in fact, it’s completely down to their Barnes rolls, or their opening hand if they get enough early removal versus aggro. There is no counterplay to it and no viable tech for it.
In my opinion, the main problem is *not* the Resurrect mechanic in itself, or Priest’s ability to stall to drop a shit ton of large minions. Resurrect, as a card and as an effect, used to be for the most part random. Then Eternal Servitude came out. The glaring issue with Eternal Servitude is that you can *pick* what to bring back. So even if you manage to hold on to both of your Hexes as Shaman, for example, and you Hex their biggest targets, if they can stick at least one of their big minions to the board, you’re still skewered by the ability for them to decide what to bring back. The Hexes mean nothing, whereas, Hex was extremely strong against earlier forms of the Res Priest. Eternal Servitude is *too* consistent, and with the rest of the tools offered to the archetype, allows way too much of a suffocating force for Priest to use in an archetype that should be fully about late game. Big Priest no longer needs to stall out as long, and they no longer need to rely on complete RNG.
I know that Blizzard cares little for the sanctity of the Wild format, but this archetype is a serious, serious problem. It’s unhealthy, it’s stale, and it’s just plain unfun to play and to face. Especially when so much of the recent Wild format is *just* Big Priest. I’m extremely sick of it.
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-game-modes/wild-format/226328-my-proposed-nerf-for-big-priest
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-game-modes/wild-format/221968-big-priest-is-still-a-problem
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-game-modes/wild-format/223344-best-way-to-nerf-big-priest-is
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-game-modes/wild-format/218919-do-you-think-big-priest-should-be-nerfed
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/221377-autoplay-big-priest-players-and-nerf
I cutted the blubber out: yes, big priest is a strong deck, but lets stay with the FACTS: Winrate of big priest is even with the best decks right now around 60-62%, while Odd rogue is around 68% and Even shaman consistent around 70%. That's insane.
The rest of your text is simply a rant and should be posted in the salt-forums. Nearly nobody complains about how OP Odd Rogue or Even Shaman is, but Big Priest, with a much lower winrate is the problem? Sorry, but NO. Yes, i want Barnes to be nerfed too, and that's said from a Priest-Player from vanilla to now. But ranting again and again how big priest is a problem and ignoring the fact that Even Shaman and Odd Rogue is totally dominating the meta is totally ignored makes me angry.
I strongly disagree with you. Big priest is a great and skillful deck. Only masters can topdeck Barnes on turn 4 Kappa
Infinite Value decks like Jade Druid completely shit on Big Priest. So do all combo decks.
It's definitely very strong imo, but there are counters to it.
Also, it's far from a solitaire deck. It plays just like a control deck, but your win con is resurrecting. Lots of decisions to make with board clears, one must know the opponent's deck very well to ensure wins. It's not always just resurrect and win. Barnes on 4 isn't always a guaranteed win either.
Nature is the Day.
Man is the Sun.
Woman is the Moon.
The Stone is the Sky.
The Art is the Way.
#NERF BARNES!
They killed Kingsbane, so now it's free to rant all day long...
It's around for so long, even everybody knows that the resurrect-mechanic is broken like every mana-cheat-card (Skull, Oondasta, Hooktusk, Oakheart...)
they give a fuck about it...
I don't even care if it is strong. As people often forget there are situations where even a weak deck is an unhealthy one. The fact that you have a deck completely based on drawing specific cards, that cannot function in ANY way without said cards, is an issue in itself because it creates a polarized situation of extreme high rolls or complete flops. That said it is also true that Big Priest is an absolute auto piloting deck, you completely ignore the enemy game plan when playing it since the sole purpose is to put your minions out on the board whether the enemy is Aggro or OTK.
I must be doing something wrong, because every Jade Druid deck I play can’t hope to outvalue Big Priest if they can get their Eternal Servitude shenanigans rolling. How can Jade Druid hope to beat 3 Lich King/Y’Shaarj/Obsidian Statue/Velen in a row? There aren’t enough solid removal options available to Druid if Big Priest gets what they want off of Barnes, and even if they don’t you need to at least tech in both Naturalize and Mulch to even hope to keep up, and that’s if you even draw them.
Barnes is a problem, sure, but I think the main problem is Eternal Servitude. The effect is overtuned.
Barnes is completely based on RNG, whereas Eternal Servitude can guarantee a 10-Mana wincon minion for 4 Mana, after you already had to remove it. That’s disgusting levels of value. Eternal Servitude is a cool card, but has way too many problem spots in its current form to stay how it is.
If they want to keep it at 4 mana, they need to change the effect in some way, or they need to up the Mana cost for the effect it has. At least 7 Mana, in my opinion.
I included the fact that just because a deck is or is not meta, and is or is not the top-winrate deck, does NOT implicate it as healthy/unhealthy to the game state. Jade Druid, as a deck, was only Tier 1 for a very short time, and yet Jade Idol as a card is completely unhealthy for the game and will remain that way. The winrate of Jade Druid in Wild continues to drop, but this does not change the fact that Jade Idol is an effect that thins the design space. This is an argument that I will always hold to, as cards that have polarizing and egregiously strong effects will remain that way, regardless of the deck winrates that include them.
Regardless, your counterpoint that “nobody complains about Even Shaman/Odd Rogue/insert deck here” is flawed, since I happen to have seen PLENTY of discussion surrounding the Even/Odd mechanics as a whole and how they harm competitive diversity. Even Shaman is insanely strong, but no one card in its list (besides Genn and the Even mechanic in general) cramps the design space. This is completely different in regards to cards like Eternal Servitude, or Barnes, or Jade Idol, or Kingsbane, or any other card you could argue has a game-limiting effect.
Blizzard fucked everything up when they continued to print insane big priest cards even after it was already rly good. In kft you could realistically control out the game with a solid control mage/warlock. But these days even if you poly/hex half their threats and remove multiple resurrected minions theyll just drop 3 spellstones and completely steamroll you.
To fix Big Priest would be quite simple, either you nerf Barnes, the simple solution. The more complicated one would be that blizzard would change the resurrection-mechanic; not allowing to resurrect minions below the amount of mana crystals you have. So you can resurrect the Lich King only when your amount of mana crystals reach 8, so normally on turn 8, except you get for example countered by Mojomaster Zihi or get it out earlier with Biology Project
But let's be realistic: what will probably happen is simply by nerfing barnes: Nerf Barnes to 6 mana or pulling out only a minion with 6 mana or lower and it's fixed.
You're so wrong on so many levels that the only conclusion I could possibly draw here is that you yourself are a big priest player.
Eternal Servitude limits the design space in that there is only so much you can introduce in terms of Deathrattle before the effect becomes overbearing (hint: it already is). No other resurrection effect has this problem, besides maybe the Spellstone. If, for example, they were to print a very strong 3 Mana Deathrattle card, you wouldn’t even need to play the Big Priest archetype to take advantage of how disgusting Servitude is, you could just play a tempo or midrange Deathrattle Priest and pop Servitude on curve.
The problem is not Barnes, because with previous Resurrect cards you could just remove Barnes as well and screw the Priest if they low-rolled Barnes on their Res. The problem is Eternal Servitude’s consistency. The problem is Priest’s low-cost value plays. Shaman’s resurrection mechanics, for example, basically require you to stick Big minions on the board for at least one turn, or lose some of their value in order to get them to return (see: Sylvanas into Reincarnate).
A possibility could be that you could have Eternal Servitude only able to discover a minion that died *last turn*. That would reduce the consistency somewhat and open opportunities to hinder Big Priest’s ability to steamroll at all points in the game.
just play even shaman then. i don't play wild very often but that deck is just disgusting and i feel bad for all wild players that have to deal with this abomination for the rest of their hearthstone careers as it will only become stronger too xD
"Lots of decisions". Sure mate. I try every deck and this was the second most boring deck after taunt druid that I have played.
Perhaps Hearthpwn needs a subforum for these 'X Deck is a problem' threads. I mean, I just lost to an OTK priest, and I think the devs owe me a nerf.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
There are plenty of counters and tech cards for big priest. I've been playing Reno priest in wild lately and teched in a lot of ways to deal with big threats and a potion of madness to deal with Barnes on turn 4 and haven't lost against one since.
Totally agree that this deck is an auto-pilot. And please don't tell me shit about board clears and thinking. You can make that example for aggro too and how to avoid them.
It doesn't matter how much the win rate is, because the deck is just unhealty for any meta, to play with or face.